Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Sammy B. T. on February 04, 2014, 04:16:59 pm
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While I do like the fact that I can now mute people in match using the tab screen, now it locks down all action such as moving or clicking. Is this intended as it basically stops any engineer from being able to casually check who is in the lobby. Pressing tab is almost habitual for me while applying a buff or running across the ship and I hope this is not intended or necessary.
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Yeah, this, has been bothering me too. I often check to see who joins and leaves matches.
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It is not a bug. Essentially, in order to give you a mouse pointer (needed for mid-match block UI), we needed to change the input on that screen from "game" to "menu" mode. We decided this was a worthy tradeoff.
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I'd say its not a worthy trade off. Being able to quickly see who is in the lobby without having to break game-play trumps being able to mute someone in game that you missed muting in the lobby. Is there no way to have a separate screen for it?
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Once again, PLEASE require the user to click in the tab screen before taking away game controls and letting them interact with player list. It is so simple, all the cool shooter games do it this way and it works wonderfully.
I said this in the dev app thread too, assumed such a simple and obvious thing would be implemented without additional begging and moaning.
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Maybe have a separate button to bring up the mute screen? I have to say that it's been bugging me a lot too, as I often bring the Tab screen up as I'm running along the ship.
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I brought this up in the dev app thread as well, and completely agree. There's a reason that action games don't put mouse functionality on the in-game score screen, because it is incredibly annoying to lose control of your character when you're checking crews, checking for disconnects, ship names, etc. In that thread I proposed an alternative solution similar to how TF2 handles it, which I'll post here for the benefit of those not in testing:
(http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/d/d0/Mute_Player.png?t=20111128034910)
"Just have big button that says "Mute Players" on the escape button screen, which displays a dialog with all the player names. That way you don't need to destroy existing functionality as it does now."
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Isn't it possible to forward the user input to both - the score menu and the actual game?
The worst thing that can happen is an unintended shot - if you call the menu from a gun or an unintended character turn. I'd prefer that behavior over not being able to interact with the actual game from the score menu at all. Especially as a pilot I often take a brief glance at whom I'm facing - often while doing other stuff simultaneously (steering, item usage, voice chat).
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Yeah, there are several reasonable suggestions here. Personally, I like the "click to give mouse focus" compromise the best, but I don't get to decide this stuff unilaterally. I'll make sure this is brought up internally, though.
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How about something simple like, Tab displays the old screen, shift+tab displays the ability to mute people?
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How about something simple like, Tab displays the old screen, shift+tab displays the ability to mute people?
Shift+tab is the Steam overlay hotkey.
I don't think muting is such a frequent action that it requires a dedicated hotkey.
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How about something simple like, Tab displays the old screen, shift+tab displays the ability to mute people?
Shift+tab is the Steam overlay hotkey.
I don't think muting is such a frequent action that it requires a dedicated hotkey.
Doesn't have to be shift tab, was just an example. Dunno what your problem with having a hotkey for it is when it would solve the problem quite well >.>
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How about something simple like, Tab displays the old screen, shift+tab displays the ability to mute people?
Shift+tab is the Steam overlay hotkey.
I don't think muting is such a frequent action that it requires a dedicated hotkey.
Doesn't have to be shift tab, was just an example. Dunno what your problem with having a hotkey for it is when it would solve the problem quite well >.>
Hotkeys only make sense for frequent actions, as otherwise you need to recall the unintuitive key combination each time a mute situation comes up.
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Although it was a little clunky, Chivalry had you press B to activate mouse in scoreboard.
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+1 for click to gain mouse,
- or a bindable key
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I like the "click to gain mouse focus"-method best as well.
A separate mute menu sounds reasonable to me too.
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I like the "click to gain mouse focus"-method best as well.
A separate mute menu sounds reasonable to me too.
What if we switched it from the TAB menu to the ESCAPE menu? That allows us to keep our current tab functionality, but also puts an easily accessible "Mute Players" Button on a menu players are already aware of and already use for in-game functions (like disconnecting, going AFK, and so forth). Just have it open up a Tab screen look-a-like, only this time with full mute functionality.
Thoughts? I'd find this rather intuitive.
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I like the "click to gain mouse focus"-method best as well.
A separate mute menu sounds reasonable to me too.
What if we switched it from the TAB menu to the ESCAPE menu? That allows us to keep our current tab functionality, but also puts an easily accessible "Mute Players" Button on a menu players are already aware of and already use for in-game functions (like disconnecting, going AFK, and so forth). Just have it open up a Tab screen look-a-like, only this time with full mute functionality.
Thoughts? I'd find this rather intuitive.
That is what I suggested on the previous page (and in the previous thread).
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Serious question, because understanding the use case is important: why do you guys feel the need to bring the scoreboard up so often in the middle of gameplay? Just what are you checking?
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If people join mid game which ship they are on and what class they are. To find out the type of ship that is spotted behind a cloud when all I can see is it's player chosen name. To check surrendered status, and if allied/enemy captains or crew have dc'd incase I'd missed it in the chat feed.
On my last point I'd like to make an unrelated request to have the option to make the chat window persistent, and the option to set a solid or translucent background. (it's hard to read white text when the background is a white cloud).
Edit: It'd be really great to see a message in game when captains surrender.
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Off the top of my head:
1) Seeing someone join in chat and checking what ship they're on.
2) Seeing someone disconnect in chat and checking what ship they were on.
3) Seeing who is on what ships in general.
4) Noticing a missing ship in a combat engagement and checking if their captain disconnected.
5) Having a ship spotted (with it's name revealed) and checking what kind of ship it is.
6) Correlating part destruct logs with specific ships.
7) Checking is a ship has surrendered or not.
I'm also against click to focus on tab screen, since it would only reduce the frequency of unintentionally triggering and not actually solve it.
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Serious question, because understanding the use case is important: why do you guys feel the need to bring the scoreboard up so often in the middle of gameplay? Just what are you checking?
It's sort of a habit I use to remind myself who I'm flying against and, more importantly, what I'm flying against. I remember the information well, but it's very helpful to me to have that constant reminder available without breaking my game flow.
As the people above me have mentioned, checking destruction logs and ship names at a great distance is always important. I also like to be able to check if an ally says "Target the Pyramidion" before I'm in visual range so I can head towards the right spotted ship even if I can't see the ship itself.
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This may portray me as oblivious, but sometimes I need it to know what team I am on or more specifically what team the color is the enemy. When a ship just won't spot, throwing up the tab and seeing what ships are on what side is nice.
I'd also like to mention that I have not yet been in a scenario where I strongly felt a need to mute someone in game that I hadn't already done in lobby. While I can understand it is easily conceivable to be in a scenario where it will happen, its not terribly common. Therefore this doesn't need to be the most streamlined action if it comes at the cost of another streamlined action
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Your team colour is shown as a rectangle in the bottom right of your screen. I always forget it's there though =P
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This may portray me as oblivious, but sometimes I need it to know what team I am on or more specifically what team the color is the enemy. When a ship just won't spot, throwing up the tab and seeing what ships are on what side is nice.
This is something I suspect we all do. I know if *I* ever forget I always hit Tab instead of checking the bottom corner: it lets me keep my attention focused on the center of the screen, which is where the majority of the important information is. I don't like having to drag my eyes away from the fight or the damage text area to check team color on the rare instance when I space out.
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The colors on enemy ships can be hard to tell sometimes when looking at an enemy ship, half shrouded by clouds in canyon. Throwing up a reminder that enemy has what ships is often the quickest way for me to recognize danger.
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I'd also like to mention that I have not yet been in a scenario where I strongly felt a need to mute someone in game that I hadn't already done in lobby. While I can understand it is easily conceivable to be in a scenario where it will happen, its not terribly common. Therefore this doesn't need to be the most streamlined action if it comes at the cost of another streamlined action
I would like to corroborate this statement with some of my own insight...
Out of 2811 played matches, there are only 27 people on my blocked list. That is less than one mute for every one hundred games. In addition, almost every one of these players was on a ship other than my own, as if there is somebody mute-worthy in my crew, I will generally go to another ship or lobby. Muting doesn't solve trolls.
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Out of 2811 played matches, there are only 27 people on my blocked list. That is less than one mute for every one hundred games. In addition, almost every one of these players was on a ship other than my own, as if there is somebody mute-worthy in my crew, I will generally go to another ship or lobby. Muting doesn't solve trolls.
^^This. I probably have about seven people muted, out of 700+ games. That's about the same percentage rate.
Part of me feels like this encourages the use of the mute feature, when I'd rather encourage thoughtful communication & reconciliation, which I've seen work many times. Trolls will troll, and having a Mute feature accessible in-game is important...but not THIS important.
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I don't use tab mid combat, so loosing game control while it is active is not an issue to me.
I use the block list as an indicator of people I don't want to fly with again. So I don't just block people who trash talk but also uncooperative crewmen, mid game leavers, and people who don't listen to their captain. I usually use the Social->Recent tab to put people on the blocked list but having the ability to do it mid game appeals to me.
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My biggest problem with the block/mute feature is that, unless I didn't notice a sudden change, muting and blocking are one and the same. There are plenty of people that I block just because I don't want to have to deal with listening to them. It is bad, but sometimes you just can't listen to the squeaky voices, or the over-amped microphones, or the music/echo/etc. I don't necessarily want to block said people. Just not audibly hear them. It would be sort of nice to have distinct options.
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I normally check the tab menu while I'm running around from part to part or while I'm buffing something. I like to see what we will be going up against, for example if I'm in a match and I see that there's a ship with 2 gunners I can let my captain know that they will probably be an easier target to kill than a ship with 2 engis.
I personally would rather have the mute menu separate from the tab menu. You could also make it look different than the tab menu and include spectators since there isn't a way to mute them using the current menu.
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I'd also like to mention that I have not yet been in a scenario where I strongly felt a need to mute someone in game that I hadn't already done in lobby. While I can understand it is easily conceivable to be in a scenario where it will happen, its not terribly common. Therefore this doesn't need to be the most streamlined action if it comes at the cost of another streamlined action
I would like to corroborate this statement with some of my own insight...
Out of 2811 played matches, there are only 27 people on my blocked list. That is less than one mute for every one hundred games. In addition, almost every one of these players was on a ship other than my own, as if there is somebody mute-worthy in my crew, I will generally go to another ship or lobby. Muting doesn't solve trolls.
That's a very good point. My block list is rather empty too and I can not recall a single instance in all 3000 matches I've played so far, where I've felt the urge to mute someone in-game. Those few guys who managed to get an entry on my block list due to their vocal gibberish, accomplished it in the lobby already.
My biggest problem with the block/mute feature is that, unless I didn't notice a sudden change, muting and blocking are one and the same. There are plenty of people that I block just because I don't want to have to deal with listening to them. It is bad, but sometimes you just can't listen to the squeaky voices, or the over-amped microphones, or the music/echo/etc. I don't necessarily want to block said people. Just not audibly hear them. It would be sort of nice to have distinct options.
This is a good point as well. The block-feature is currently misused for purposes which have probably not been intended by muse.
I personally use the blocklist for the following purposes:
- block people which annoy me via voice or written text
- mark people with outstanding underperformance (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3146.msg55787.html#msg55787).
- sometimes I mute kids as they open their mouth. Not because of childish content, but just because I'm not in the mood to listen to kid-voices.
- sometime I'm not even remotely interested in discussions going on via voice chat and mute people participating in those.
- I occasionally mute people like geo, who play music in lobbies.
Taking the wide range of uses for the blocklist into consideration it might make sense to diversify it a bit. I'd like to be able to distinguish between voice-chat-mutes and entire communication blocks including text-chat. Also I wouldn't mind to see a block system distinguishing between temporary blocks (e.g. for boring discussions and tedious voices) and permanent ones reserved for people I actually never ever want to meet in game again.
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I <3 my blocklist. Don't even have to bother dealing with some players, just block and...sweet silence....ahhhh...
As far as the ingame lockup goes with tab. Doesn't really matter to me. I don't check often enough and when I do I'm not doing it in combat. A quick glance for a moment doesn't do anything to me.
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If at all possible, please do fix this so you can still move while checking the Tab player list. It's extremely annoying if you're trying to do a quick check to see if you or an opponent has dropped a crew member, or something like that.
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So is there going to be any movement on this. I find this amazingly and annoyingly disruptive.
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I guess im one of the few who don't see this being a big deal.
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I thought I would be able to get used to this but it turns out I look at the match list whilst repairing/shooting etc. I will often watch components and hull go down and come back up in the top left of the screen, then refer to the match list to see which enemy ship had repaired. This is mainly for the hull and heavy guns being repaired. For me, I still want to be able to turn the ship/repair the hull/shoot the heavy gun back down while I have the match list is open.
If you don't let me view the match list while still being active on the ship, we need better indication for when the hull and heavy weapons come back up on enemy ships. We have the little black feathers that fall off the ship when the hull goes down now, we need something similar for when it comes back up.
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I am used to check the scoreboard from various other games and that habit just kinda followed me to here. Every other (possible) reason to press TAB has already been mentioned.
Another game handled this by adding a key which you had to press while holding down the tab-key in order for the input on that screen to change to "menu" mode.
This idea has already been mentioned thrice in this thread and I approve of this.
However, I do feel as if the "mute"-thing should really be seperated from actual blocking. As said before if some chill guy plays music and you don't want to hear it, you block him, but then this guy can't even communicate with you per chat anymore either and this can turn into a potentional lack of teamplay. (Does somebody hear your voice commands when said person blocked you?)
Example:
He/She is your captain, the other 2 want to hear the music, but you can't stand it -> block. Congratz, since you are not listening to your captain anymore, you might as well leave the match! (Unless you know what you are doing and the captain isn't doing some special tactics that nobody gets)
Another thing I don't like is that blocking actually removes the person from your friend list. If music guy is playing music again, but you don't want to hear it, but still actually don't want to remove him from your important friend list, mute him instead of blocking him.
But then again, this is only a thing for lazy people, since you can just re-add him or tell him to stop outright and as a friend he might actually listen.
This game is still awesome.
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I do find this annoying for reasons already stated because I was used to checking through the scoreboard for new crew mates or what ships are doing what etc... But I don't find it so annoying that it has to be changed, I've pretty much already (mostly) broken the habit of holding tab.
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I would like to mention this is still a thing and not yet have I needed to mute someone in match that I hadn't already done in lobby.
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I haven't use this feature to mute people in game so much as black list captains who leave mid game. Any captain who abandons their ship/crew after their first death is a captain I don't want to fly under. By the time the match is over there is no record of deserter. So I like the in game block feature so I can flag the offending player while they are in the disconnect phase. If they return before the end of the match I unblock them in lobby. It would be nice to have a separate mute and unfriend list, but I hold no hope of getting that feature.
I may have blocked some decent people who had connection issues at one point or other. The community is small enough that if I see a friend flying with a blocked player I can ask about the friend's opinions of the blocked player and unblock them if the friend's opinion is favorable.
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Why do we need to be able to block people on other ships in-game?
Why encourage MORE blocking In a game that is about communication and cooperation?
In the VERY RARE instance that we desire to block someone, it will already be done in the lobby, and you won't notice if someone does something block worthy on another ship.
I'm sure this system is more abusable than useful. I bet certain other captains will just block me if i'm trying to communicate, because they don't want to hear what i have to say.
It really makes me sad that Muse put time in effort into a feature than no one wanted, and is detrimental to the spirit of the game, while at the same time there is a plethora of bugs they could have worked on instead.
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I have experienced a captain asking newer players on a ship to jump on certain guns or repair certain parts over others etc. and the newbies end up blocking the captain in game so they can do what they want without communicating. This feature seems to only be abused by people who don't care about the teamwork aspect of the game. In this instance I was engineer crew and had to try to relay information through text chat to the crew members from the captain.
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sounds troubling ram i have seen that happen to a friend too wonder if it was the same one lol
i have also had to remove people from my block list due to i have been blocking people in game a lot when i have try to tab while playing
in a game with the need to communicate so much make little to none sense to have anyone blocked
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This is starting to grate on me a bit as well. Initially I didn't mind, but in a game where not being active leaves your ship (and therefore team) basically dead in the water, having tab prevent your motion and actions is a killer.
You have the nice new feature where you can see the level of a player in the tab overlay. Too bad I never get to use this new feature because I can't safely use the tab overlay.
The overlay is nice just for that instantaneous reminder of who and what you have on both teams. To make it practically inaccessible to active players while adding the ability to reduce communications in a game dependent on communication seems absurd. Like people have been saying, we don't really need to block people in game. Heck, we should be avoiding blocking people. It makes it very difficult to play the game if you just block people.
At the very least it would be nice to have an option somewhere to turn this off. I don't want to block people in game. I just want to check the scoreboard - the actual reason for the existence of the overlay - without having to run my ship into a wall because control was taken from me.
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You know this isn't the end of the world for me but I still find myself frequently wanting to walk while tabbed.
Maybe it's time someone emails this to Muse.
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we could start an official petition on one of them dedicated petition sites :P
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You know this isn't the end of the world for me but I still find myself frequently wanting to walk while tabbed.
Maybe it's time someone emails this to Muse.
I did a few days ago, asking for their thoughts on the matter.
No response as of yet.
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Maybe everyone needs to email them.
Feedback@musegames.com
That'll get it fixed within the month
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Sorry for the lack of response Djinn, your email sparked off a debate inside the office.
I don't have the final word for you guys, but I wanted to let you know that we've seen and read through this thread.
I'll let you know as soon as I sit down with the team and we figure out what we want to do.
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Sorry for the lack of response Djinn, your email sparked off a debate inside the office.
I don't have the final word for you guys, but I wanted to let you know that we've seen and read through this thread.
Awesome. Thanks for checking in with us!
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I am monitoring this thread because tab lock down still really bugs me.
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It doesn't bother me that much in-game anymore, i just feel like it shows muse has a bit of a disconnect when it comes to what features the playerbase actually needs.
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Or we have a disconnect with the tons of feedback they get through email that we never see.
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Hadn't seen this thread originally, but just posting to say that I agree that not being able to move while pressing tab is extremely annoying as an engineer.
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I have only blocked 2 people mid game who were telling each other antisemetic jokes on my ship. I believe I had already reported them before the match started. This happened a long time ago (before signal commands) and I haven't needed to block people in game since.
So why do people feel they have a need to block people? Is it trolls in novice games? Is it players who want to play autonomously and are sick of captains telling them which gun to shoot or which component to repair?
What is the cause of this request and is there a better way to address it?
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Why is this needed, if we already had the functionality available mid-match by going to the recent tab, and then block the user from there?
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because the recent tab is pretty well-hidden to an inexperienced player, and kind of clunky to boot. The issue is not with being able to mute people, it's with not being able to move while having the menu open.
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I was simply stating how the feature locking down the movement wasn't necessary, as we already had it in some other place.
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I have a couple more problems related to this:
1. I'm still finding it hard to keep the names of all the players on each ship, the name of the ship each player is on and the type of each ship each player is on in my head. When our ship dies I finally have a bit of a break and would like to go over the match list before we respawn. The problem is that the match list is unavailable between death and respawn.
2. I am unable to friend, pm or invite/join party from the match list - things I do much more than block. Why does the in game match list only provide antisocial features (blocking) and not social features?
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This is totally still a problem
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Keep bumping the thread to >9000 posts, maybe they will notice.
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Community feeling on this subject has been noticed.
Since I am no longer answering 100 pm's, comments, and emails about the flamethrower. I will continue my crusade to bug the rest of the team about this issue on your behalf.
There will be a slight delay since the next major bug we're tackling is Steam itself.
Their servers going down are causing us a major headache and we're going to do our best to entangle ourselves from it.
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Community feeling on this subject has been noticed.
Since I am no longer answering 100 pm's, comments, and emails about the flamethrower. I will continue my crusade to bug the rest of the team about this issue on your behalf.
There will be a slight delay since the next major bug we're tackling is Steam itself.
Their servers going down are causing us a major headache and we're going to do our best to entangle ourselves from it.
<3
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Six months and two patches later and this is still a thing. I'm beginning to question the claim it is being worked on
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*make that 3 patches
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I'll admit now its been a minor annoyance. I'm just surprised it hasn't been fixed yet. Doesn't seem like an issue that would take much time. Thought they'd have done it by now.
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Hate it so much, since it's creation.
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Agree that this is still annoying.