Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => The Classroom => Q&A => Topic started by: geggis on November 01, 2013, 10:21:38 am
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- What pilot tools function when you leave the helm? If any?
- If a Lumberjack shot hits the top of a Mobula does that damage the balloon? Would the AoE breach the surface of the deck?
- How do incendiary rounds work? I know they increase the chance to ignite but how many stacks does that ignition make? How effective are they with each gun?
- What's the point of AoE on an explosive weapon if it's purely for hitting the bare hull health? I'm presuming this is for when components are shattered and the explosive damage hitting those components is transferred to the hull with all the appropriate damage multipliers? I have no idea.
Thanks in advance!
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1) Chute vent, hydrogen, drogue chute and ramming bumpers all have effects that last a few seconds meaning they'll still be active for a bit if you leave the helm.
2)Yes so far as I know
3)1 stack on direct impact (not AOE) for weapons that don't have ignition stacks already. I believe it will increase the likelyhood of those that do. I'll leave the second part of this question for someone else as I've never used it for much more than reduced arming time and mine launchers.
4) You don't do double damage with a shot if you hit a broken component, broken components are just another part of the overall hull hitbox. AOE on explosives serve 3 purposes: The primary reason for AOE is to still give you some damage to an unarmored hull if you accidentally shoot a component, which is very easy to do against a ship like a Junker; secondly, the AOE is the damage that gets dropped on flak cannons when they're within arm time and serve as a way of balancing long range explosive finishers; thirdly, explosive weapons deal a respectable amount of damage to engines and guns, the aoe of the explosions, especially from guns like the mortar, will frequently damage or finish off components giving a considerable benefit in combat.
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3) Each gun has a base ignition chance per hit value. Some guns it is 0% like the Gatling gun. Some guns it is 100% like the flare gun. Incendiary increases the ignition % chance per hit. So using incendiary on the Gatling gun would mean some of the bullets will now apply 1 stack of fire. Most explosive weapons have a 30% (I think) chance of adding a fire stack on hit/AOE. Using incendiary bumps that up to 40%.
The flamethrower spits out a dozen or so particles per second. Each particle has a small percentage chance of starting a fire but there are so many particles that you are guaranteed to start a few. Incendiary flame throwers start more fires because it increases each particle's fire starting ability.
Incendiary works best on weapons that have a high rate of fire. Gatling guns, banshees, and flame throwers are ideal candidates. The flare gun is not since it already has a 100% chace of ignition. As Smollett said, most people use incendiary for its secondary effect of reducing muzzle speed.
Fire is not that big of a threat to a well trained crew unless you are going all in with fire like the cake clan. One weapon putting out occasional fire damage is not a threat. 3 weapons putting out a constant stream of fire is a threat.
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Thanks Smollett and Hamster! Yes, I tend to roll heavy with fire but was never quite sure whether incendiary was a good ammo choice given its drawbacks (rate of fire mainly, while greased reduces muzzle speed as well as increases clip and RoF). Is there anywhere where I can find the chance to ignite percentages? I don't recall them in Wilson's notes.
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As a sometimes thing, I also like incendiary on the carronades. You get a lot of spread and a lot of small fires. It ends up being very annoying for the other team.
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3) Each gun has a base ignition chance per hit value. Some guns it is 0% like the Gatling gun. Some guns it is 100% like the flare gun. Incendiary increases the ignition % chance per hit. So using incendiary on the Gatling gun would mean some of the bullets will now apply 1 stack of fire. Most explosive weapons have a 30% (I think) chance of adding a fire stack on hit/AOE. Using incendiary bumps that up to 40%.
The flamethrower spits out a dozen or so particles per second. Each particle has a small percentage chance of starting a fire but there are so many particles that you are guaranteed to start a few. Incendiary flame throwers start more fires because it increases each particle's fire starting ability.
Incendiary works best on weapons that have a high rate of fire. Gatling guns, banshees, and flame throwers are ideal candidates. The flare gun is not since it already has a 100% chace of ignition. As Smollett said, most people use incendiary for its secondary effect of reducing muzzle speed.
Fire is not that big of a threat to a well trained crew unless you are going all in with fire like the cake clan. One weapon putting out occasional fire damage is not a threat. 3 weapons putting out a constant stream of fire is a threat.
The tooltip says nothing about reducing muzzle speed. Why would this be beneficial?
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Guns with arming times like flak cannons, hades and lumberjack lose effectiveness within a certain proximity (around 200M give or take 50M for the guns) due to arming timers.
If the shot moves slower it will take longer to arrive at target and arm at closer ranges.
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Guns with arming times like flak cannons, hades and lumberjack lose effectiveness within a certain proximity (around 200M give or take 50M for the guns) due to arming timers.
If the shot moves slower it will take longer to arrive at target and arm at closer ranges.
I think we should mention the fact that it doesn't have to do with arming range but more with the arming time as well for better understanding.
The projectile simply 'arms' after some set timer, so making it travel slower, will activate that arming timer to close distances.
Exact default arming ranges for now are:
225m for the light Flak
300m for the heavy Flak
300m for the Lumberjack (not sure why it says 220 in game, it's still 300 like in 1.2 isn't it?)
150m for the Hades
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Heavy flak is 240, lumberjack is an outrageously low 220.
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Heavy flak is 240, lumberjack is an outrageously low 220.
Weird, I'm certain the Heavy Flak's arming was officialy raised to 300 after the monstrous damage buff it got.
Lumberjack was 300 in 1.2 and there was no patch note that said it got changed?..
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As far as I know, LJ's arming time has been that as long as its had an arming time.
Light flak used to have a 300M arming time, heavy flaks arming time has been unchanged for a while as well.
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Eric seriously needs to stop messing up with the in game description and the release sheets then cause I'm honestly confused, LJ arming time was stated as 300 meters prior t0 1.3 and now HF is stated as 300 in game.
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Just gonna pop my head in real quick in relation to incendiary rounds.
For a weapon like the flamer or Banshee, Greased is usually a better option.
Not only do you get more ammo, but it doesn't travel slower, and it shoots faster.
This helps the flamer because instead of raising ignition chance, you raise the amount of particles per second.
Not only are the Banshee and Hades more satisfying to use with Greased, but, once again, you're getting more ammo faster, so one shot missed is more forgiving.
In practice, use greased for weapons already notorious for starting fires, and incendiary to give a hot surprise on guns that normally wouldn't start them.
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for the record the lumberjack won't hit the balloon if it strikes the top deck if you're not in AoE range.
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Is burst ammo a good Idea in the carronades and flaks and if so why?
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Carronades, no. Flaks maybe. The carro (as far as I'm aware) doesn't do AOE damage. It's essentially a cluster of pellets fired from the gun in a cone shape. Each pellet is a direct shot with no added AOE damage. The burst round will just increase the ammo on the small carronade and reduce the fire rate. Not really worth it. On the heavy carronade it just slows down the rate of fire, absolutely not worth it.
The flaks do AOE damage (after the arming time), so burst rounds can be effective on them. Letting a single shot hit more components at a time. I'm not 100% on how AOE damage works, but I believe that it applies damage to each component in the AOE zone equally; and doesn't hit components more than once. For instance the hull has lots of hit boxes (you can see the hit markers appear in different areas) but an AOE shot will just hit it once (where the various 'pellets' from the carronades will each hit it).
It will increase the ammo on the light flak along with the larger aoe, and slow down the firing rate. The light flak already fires pretty slow, so this can be a little bit of a bother. On the heavy flak, it will fire slower and not effect the damage, on top of the increased AOE. The AOE on the heavy flak is pretty large, and with burst rounds it can get quite impressive.
Essentially it's usually a good choice for flaks, but never for carronades.
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I only like burst in the light flak. It ups the ammo without sacrificing any damage like greased does. The AoE increase is just a bonus. For the heavy flak I tend to prefer charged.
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I only like burst in the light flak. It ups the ammo without sacrificing any damage like greased does. The AoE increase is just a bonus. For the heavy flak I tend to prefer charged.
This ^
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Burst for Flaks or Carronades?
No.
In Carronades you just get a reduced firing speed so a slower clip empty.
Nothing you rly want. You want your shots to hit the best and go in as fast as possible to pin the enemy down.
The slowed down firing rate just hinders you. Greased (light) or charged (heavy) are better options. Or the good old heavy clip for accuracy.
For Flaks i say the same.
You dont want it.
The light flak has a quite high reload time and you will most likely use it with a merc or hades. THis guns can shred hull armor quite decent.
You will most likely time your flak shots so you hit the unarmored enemy hull. A reduced firing speed just hinders with that.
And the AOE of the Flak only deals explosive dmg. Explosive is only really good against permahull.
You dont aim for component dmg in most cases. Greased or charged are probably wiser options (didnt do the math what does more dmg).
Pretty much the same for the heavy Flak. You may have a decent aoe paired with a good chance to cause fires but thats not your main purpose.
You want your shots to hit the unarmored hull as hard as possible. Take charged and get those shots in.
You can get them down with a few shots if you hit the permahull of the enemy.
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If you shoot a cloud with a lochnagar flare gun would the cloud explode?
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If you shoot a cloud with a lochnagar flare gun would the cloud explode?
Yes.
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I've tested this; the cloud actually combusts into a giant inferno setting everything nearby on fire before exploding into a tremendous orange ball of flames.
It's a spectacular easter egg that Muse had hidden for ages.
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As leader of Cake and therefore knowledgeable of all things fire, I can confirm this.
I do, however, ask you all to keep it on he 'down low,' as my team and I are waiting for the perfect opportunity to reveal this to the world through Cogs.
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True or false. Artemis and merc shoots will deal more damage over 1,000 meters because of the bullet expansion mechanic.
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False (as far as I know). The bullet expansion makes it easier to hit targets at range, but has no effect on damage. Although I suppose if you hit more components, you're technically doing more total damage, but assuming you're just hitting the hull or such, you'll be the doing the same damage regardless of their distance.
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You wont do more damage to a single component but you may hit more components.
You cant hit components twice. Even if you hit the hull and hit the destroyed balloon the damage will only be applied once on the hull.
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If I want to use a hwacha as a explosive finisher what ammo would I use?
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If I want to use a hwacha as a explosive finisher what ammo would I use?
All "finisher" ammo types (charged, greased, etc.) will give you very similar DPS, so it's the damage per clip that matters. Burst has by far the best.
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In my opinion there are 2 optimal ammos for hwacha: heavy and burst. If at long range the former has the highest dps at close range the latter.
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Would a buffed burst hwacha finish of a galleon or goldfish in one clip?
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Would a buffed burst hwacha finish of a galleon or goldfish in one clip?
In theory, for the Goldfish, maybe. In theory. In practice for both, no. My reasoning, feel free to correct me:
Hwacha damage per rocket, direct/aoe: 25 explosive, 45 shatter
Rounds per clip: 20
Damage modifiers to unarmored hull: 1,4 from explosive, 0,1 from shatter
Buffed burst hwacha:
Damage to unarmored hull per rocket on a direct hit: (25*1,4 + 45*0,1)*1,2 = 47,4
Rounds per clip: (20*1,2) = 24
Total theoretical damage to unarmored hull per clip: (24 * 47,4) = 1137,6
Goldfish hull health: 1100
Galleon hull health: 1400
In the above scenario, all of the rockets hit the unarmored hull or a broken component when the hull armor is down. Even one rocket that hits a non-broken component (gun, engine, balloon) or misses the ship will cause the Goldfish to live.
To clarify: Each buffed rocket does (25*1,4*1,2 = 42) direct damage to the hull, but only (45*0,1*1,2 = 5,4) damage from the AoE shatter component, meaning that even one rocket that only counts as AoE when damaging the hull will put you below 1100 total damage.
I hope there's no mistakes in this, I just woke up. As I said, feel free to correct me. I'm using a 3rd party spreadsheet for the initial values.
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When is it better to use moonshine over kerosene? Or does it just come down to player preference.
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Moonshine. All the time. I'm a badass sky pirate not some wussy by-the-book military pilot.
However among the wussy organized pilots the consensus is- moonshine for pyra and galleon and sometimes squid, and kerosene for everything else.
@schwerbs
If one or two rockets miss, you can always use another gun and/or ram them. A ship that took a hwacha volley won't be going anywhere or doing anything for a while.
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The main thing to consider is how much attention you can expect the engines to get while you're burning. On the Pyra or the Galleon it's easy for one or two engis to handle the engines and repair them all quickly, so moonshine works best. On other ships where the engines are spread all over the place (like the Squid or Goldfish), it's harder to keep constant watch over them, so kerosene is better.
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@schwerbs
If one or two rockets miss, you can always use another gun and/or ram them. A ship that took a hwacha volley won't be going anywhere or doing anything for a while.
Correct. In virtually all cases, there will be something else damaging the permahull than the buffed hwacha. Also, in virtually all cases, not all hwacha rockets will be direct hits. However, the question was whether a buffed burst hwacha can kill a goldfish or a galleon alone, and the answer is yes, but only if every single shot hits the hull component directly. :)
(Also, usually the permahull has taken at least a little damage after penetration before the first hwacha rockets hit it, but including this would probably make the answer even more confusing. :))
On the Kerosene vs Moonshine issue, I would personally use moonshine with experienced engineers and on ramming builds. Kerosene is a safer choice most of the time.
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As a pyramidion pilot, kerosene.
Consider, you can fluidly and constantly mix between kerosene and phoenix claw without having to pay attention to your engines. Only under heavy fire do you have to pay attention to your engines, leaving you that much more ability to pay attention to your surroundings, situation, etc.
Kerosene also allows you to turn a little bit while boosting your speed. In some situations you can actually match the curvature of a turn with kerosene on, as opposed to having to play with angles on moonshine.
With the regularity that I try to abuse the way ship physics work, moonshine would obliterate my engines regularly. Kerosene seems just all around more versatile to me.
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Mainly from the view of an engineer ...
Kerosene
You get a decent speed and dont take to much damage on your engines if your engineers handle their job good.
Moonshine has the huge drawback of knocking out your enginers on around half health if you keep spamming it.
As a pilot i mostly use kerosene. In some rare situations where i just want the pure speed to catch up with the enemy fast i use moonshine. Mainly on a brawl Galleon to get into range faster.
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Kerosine = Going fast for a bit of distance
Moonshine = Quick change of direction or ramming
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A question i thought about recently is the midrange ammunition for a lumberjack.
I know Burst is a common choice but if i look at the facts that looks quite strange actually.
The lumberjack deals shatter with its primary and flechette with its secondary damage. Would Burst mean that alot of people then aim for the enemy hull and still get the damage on the balloon or is it just never really thought of?
Or would Charged be better to maximize the damage.
Or would a different ammo be much better at medium range?
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A question i thought about recently is the midrange ammunition for a lumberjack.
I know Burst is a common choice but if i look at the facts that looks quite strange actually.
The lumberjack deals shatter with its primary and flechette with its secondary damage. Would Burst mean that alot of people then aim for the enemy hull and still get the damage on the balloon or is it just never really thought of?
Or would Charged be better to maximize the damage.
Or would a different ammo be much better at medium range?
Burst and charged are my two go-to ammunition types for mid-range LJ. Depends on my mood mainly, though I lean towards burst. I often try to take into account the other weapons on the ship, for instance if I'm going LJ+Hwacha galleon, burst gets an advantage. LJ+Heavy Carro, I lean towards charged. Etc..
Burst is good since it allows you to miss the actual balloon and still hit it with relative ease due to major AoE (18 meters with burst if I'm not mistaken, although the AoE effect should get reduced on components further away from point of impact than 9m). Burst also gives you more ammo to play with, which is essentially more chances to miss or a better chance to prey on balloon rebuilds.
Charged is good since it allows less time for the enemy engineers to repair. Additionally, you will have more burst damage (more damage in a short amount of time, not factoring in reloads though) in case the hull goes red, and more overall dps when factoring in reloads if you keep hitting the enemy constantly.
Both ammo types have 85% rate of fire, but you will have 4 shots (5,2 shots worth of damage) with a charged clip, and 8 shots with increased AoE with a burst clip. Overall, long-term dps difference should be around 10-15% in favor of Charged, not taking increased AoE from burst into account. (According to a spreadsheet, not personal calculations)
I hope that helps.
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I think we should mention the fact that it doesn't have to do with arming range but more with the arming time as well for better understanding.
I dislike the terminology muse has chosen here as well. "Arming time" is more intuitive for sure.
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Arming time is the definining factor but the actual arming range (mostly used as standard arming range) is much easier to judge.
Especially with the rangefinder the range is much easier to declare than the time.
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How do you split up repairs on the spire? Do you have a main engineer like most ships or do you have two gungineers?
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Depends on pilot preference and loadout. I.E. on a hwachaspire, one main engi downstairs, and one gungineer upstairs. However, on a long-range spire (Lumberspire or Flakspire), you usually have a gungineer taking care of the top deck parts and shooting one of the guns, and a bottom deck gungineer taking care of the balloon, turning engines and the heavy weapon and light weapon, and shooting the light weapon.
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Depends on your build and gun placements ...
Do you have a sniper setup that uses the pilot as fourth shooter?
If yes you have one engi on top doing the main repairs, one on the lower deck handling maingun + balloon.
If you have a flare or another weapon for the gunner on the lower deck i prefer having a buffgineer on the front which is the piercing weapon for most builds and one main engineer on the top side.
But this can get tricky due to the odd railing which makes the jump parcour pretty hard.
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Have we tested out every light gun combo that there is yet? I keep thinking that we are missing one.
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Pretty sure we havent. Or atleast i havent. Others might have used even more.
I see new interesting builds/combos every now and then.
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hmm... thinking of a toasty Flamer-mine pyramidion front gun combo. "LET THE FLAMES CLEANSE THEE!"
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hmm... thinking of a toasty Flamer-mine pyramidion front gun combo. "LET THE FLAMES CLEANSE THEE!"
Used this the other day. Works well if you have a good mine gunner. The flames do make it slightly harder to aim the mines.
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hmm... thinking of a toasty Flamer-mine pyramidion front gun combo. "LET THE FLAMES CLEANSE THEE!"
That is an old setup. Give me another one.
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Im currently testing around with a hades hades + mine flamer banshee (front) junker.
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Nothing amazing, but I've been using flamethrower, gatling gun, light flak on a mobula. I'm trying to think of some new things for us to try though.
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Spire
Top right Mine launcher-Incen-pilot
Top left Flamer-Buff main Engineer-Greased
Main gun Carronade-Gunner-Heatsink-loch-heavy-
Lower Left Gattling gun-Buff engineer heavy
Ultimate Brawler Support spire
Carronade for balloon
Flamer for disable on weapons
Gattling gun Hull
Mine launcher -for whatever is not broken on fire will be,
Hydrogen to avoid rams, Claw-for turning-Impact bumpers for emergencies
What are the thoughts of the group?
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Im currently testing around with a hades hades + mine flamer banshee (front) junker.
a 5° overlapping gun-arc? :-/
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Spire
Top right Mine launcher-Incen-pilot
Top left Flamer-Buff main Engineer-Greased
Main gun Carronade-Gunner-Heatsink-loch-heavy-
Lower Left Gattling gun-Buff engineer heavy
Ultimate Brawler Support spire
Carronade for balloon
Flamer for disable on weapons
Gattling gun Hull
Mine launcher -for whatever is not broken on fire will be,
Hydrogen to avoid rams, Claw-for turning-Impact bumpers for emergencies
What are the thoughts of the group?
10/10 would ram with that spire build
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Loch Flakfish, dual lesmok flamer side, to cause chaos and strip the hull, claw when hull goes down, shoot the flak. Three engis. One with lesmok, one with lochnagar, and the third with charged, if they can use the flak at range.
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Loch Flakfish, dual lesmok flamer side, to cause chaos and strip the hull, claw when hull goes down, shoot the flak. Three engis. One with lesmok, one with lochnagar, and the third with charged, if they can use the flak at range.
Remember when everybody used heatsink ammo for the side flamers?
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heh. Lesmok to get it more in range of the flak.