Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Echoez on October 31, 2013, 03:08:08 am
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I know it's still early but still, here it is.
I predict a massive increase in long range disables like Artemises and even light carronades (till the Gatling gets fixed at least), both weapons very amazing at disabling heavy guns and relatively easy to shoot. It's been a pain dealing with both as a Goldfish pilot in the past, but I've managed my fair share of games without having my gun taken out every 10 seconds.
So, with the abundance of burst damage, fire and disabling power present and the last powerful gun this ship had going for it nerfed beyond what it was like in 1.2 (or 1.3.1 for those that weren't here in 1.2) and this ship is fundamentaly flawed by design with only one gun pointing at one direction and harsh bifecta angles with limited gun selection for them, I personaly at least thought that it needed that main gun to be AT least good enough to be used by itself, now well, there just ain't such a gun for me.
Question is, what do you people think of this ship now?
By the way, this is a thought presentation thread, if you disagree with someone take it to PMs, don't post it here.
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I think it's great! Flyed a few matches with Hwachafish... and it's perfect hit-and-run support for ally kill-ship. And you can still deny successful hit with disabling build and good piloting.
Yap, it's still a pain in the ass to kill someone all alone, but i think that goldfish is not a ship-killer.
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Disables on a goldfish are rough, especially since it just has the one big gun and two side guns. And with the gun being at the front, sticking as far out as it does, it's gunner candy; just waiting to be taken out. It just takes some fancy flying to try and avoid that as much as possible.
Personally I love the ship, I just think people don't utilize the side guns enough. For instance, if you have a hwacha on the front you can put a flamer or gatling on the side to strip the armor/disable during the reload. Turn back and blam, no more ship. You can do similar with the carronade, using a flamer, missile launcher, mortar, etc. Shooting them as they sink instead of trying to follow them down.
It's a bit harder to get weapon combos flak cannons and lumberjack, due to the angles and range needed for them to be effective. Although the side weapons can always be close range weapons, disables, etc to create an opening to get back at range.
On the other hand, utilizing just the front gun can make an excellent team support ship. Often when I play a carronade fish it's to help keep at least one enemy down and off my enemy. Sink one, then the other, keeping them off my allies back so they can finish them off. Hwacha and lumber fish can be used like that as well, keeping them disabled. While the flak or hwacha fished can be used for rapid kills once your ally takes out their armor.
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The goldfish is in a great place right now. lowering the dps of brawlers has opened up more options for disabling ships. (what I think the goldfish is best at)
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The goldfish lies in a very good place.
I hate how people fly it tough, i like to treat it like a squid. Doing lots of evasions, keeping a ship down by its blind side etc. With any gun.
With the lumberjack, you can easily be all stealthy and take down baloons from flanks.
With a hwacha, you can battle it out in combination with a gattling.
And the Twin. Carronade still is good, it just got a bit of its range reduced and it is used differently.
The ship is very versitile. It shouldnt have only one viable choice like before, it is a squid with a heavy gun. Just a bit bigger, and a bit slower.
It is the best ship to be used in hard cooperation with the other ship.
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I think they should change the default ship to the Pyramidion.
The Goldfish is very hard to finish a kill on your own and communication between ships on the newbie games is very poor. Pyramidion's can seal the deal by themselves more easily.
This is my favourite ship to fly but I have been the least successful on it. Even as a crewman I've never flown on a successful one. It must be fairly tricky to use well.
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The only time I see the front gun being an issue is when I use my lumberfish (which I have been increasingly doing lately). I've only had one match in it since the patch, and it was against gents so they knew how to aim.
Thing is, you really have to use the goldfish's movement to get a good angle. Then you just keep up the pressure. Even with a lj, you will need to realize your gun will not stay up if the other team decides to aim at it. Getting the angles is pretty key.
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Goldfish usually has a spare engineer to help the gunner rebuild the front gun, so it's got that going for it.
I do think however, much like most people in GOI, that more heavy weapons would be lovely, and I certainly wouldn't hate to see another close range skill based heavy weapon.
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The Goldfish was the default ship and beginner ship mostly for one reason, the heavy flak cannon. Before it was nerfed it made the fish a great all around ship that was good at range and CQC. I remember taking it when I first started and loving it. Friends would go Hwachafish and they'd just float around never getting kills while I'd tear it up. Then flak got nerfed and the fish just went down the crapper. Just so much of it is tied to the abilities of the bow gun.
Partly one of the minor reasons I thought up the design for the Sky Torpedo. It would be the perfect bow mount for a Goldfish. Give it some real crippling/killing power and strengthen it's utility.
Flak coming back is good, it gives the fish some strength back but it still isn't back to where it was. If its going to be like this then might as well turn the side mounts so it can get bifectas with ease. Its otherwise too weak.
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Gilder, do you mean heavy carronade? I thought I was the only one who couldn't get out of the habit of calling carronades flaks. I blame Unreal Tournament.
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I like the place the Goldfish sits right now. I've been able to manage a fair amount of versatility when working with the team and taking into consideration what weapons everyone is bringing to the table.
With the right pilot tools matching good strategy and planning it is just a really versatile ship that can brawl, support at range, even be the ship killer.
I'm also willing to say that it is on the medium scale of difficulty use for captains and crew. Gunners need to be accurate, know their ammo types and switch them out fast while adapting to the current fields needs. The position of the rear engine and balloon, in relation to the rest of the ship make it so the two other players on board need to communicate whose repairing what, or they end up overlapping one another too often.
The side mount guns definitely need to be taken into consideration more for use by the casual player, I haven't seen to much use of them in pugs. Many captains might not have considered the utility of the side guns, favoring the big one in front as their go to strategy. More experienced players have used the entire ship to devastating effect in the pugs I've been playing in the last few days. More than a few blender fish have brought me low as well lol, though their attacks weren't unbeatable now or overly frustrating.
I had to pay closer attention to my distance to, or when I'm in the Fish. Been using some tactics I'd usually reserve for a squid on the fish as well, which has had some amusing results.
And I'm very tired, I think my entire post might be incomprehensible. I want/need coffee.
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Gilder, do you mean heavy carronade? I thought I was the only one who couldn't get out of the habit of calling carronades flaks. I blame Unreal Tournament.
Nope. The Heavy Flak used to actually be the best gun for the Goldfish. The gun was really, really overpowered though, so it couldn't last.
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Gilder, do you mean heavy carronade? I thought I was the only one who couldn't get out of the habit of calling carronades flaks. I blame Unreal Tournament.
Nope. The Heavy Flak used to actually be the best gun for the Goldfish. The gun was really, really overpowered though, so it couldn't last.
Best in the game even, on anything you could slap it onto. Gallon broadsides with the old flak -shudders-.
At any rate, in my experience not much has really changed in its usage for the mostpart. As one of the devs pointed out, balancing for the middleground I've seen most of the spectrum outside of tournaments and there's not much of a change in tactics in the mid-level. Spires of course, have to be blind-sided but are appreciably more squishy, so it comes down to who sees who first, what range and how good the gunners/loadout is. But most seem to be loading the time tested cannnonade + flamethrowers mostly and getting predictably decent results.
Though lacking in killing power, it still stands as a great disabler. Most people seem to prefer ramming for that final "umph" to finish off a weakened airship.
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Oh wow, that must have been during my hiatus. Nevertheless, the flak cannon in Unreal Tournament made distinguishing between the carronade and flak in GoIO a lot trickier for me! What with it acting more like a shotgun firing hot shredding shrapnel/buck.
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Most pilots I have flown with just need to work on learning gun arcs and reload times, then remember that the Goldfish has two side guns. I hate sitting on a Goldfish side gun with another ship almost in arc while their armor is down, their guns or engines are disabled... and the Hwatcha is starting a reload.
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Most pilots I have flown with just need to work on learning gun arcs and reload times, then remember that the Goldfish has two side guns. I hate sitting on a Goldfish side gun with another ship almost in arc while their armor is down, their guns or engines are disabled... and the Hwatcha is starting a reload.
It does seem to be an epidemic, yes. One way to really help is to ask the front gunner to call Hwacha reloads as "reloading," "50%," "75%," "arming," and "ready." This gives even unskilled or unaware captains a constant idea of when the Hwacha is ready to fire, and, perhaps more importantly, when they should swing off the side guns to bring the main gun back in arc.
Also, don't feel above reminding your captain that the side guns exist: if there's an easy target that I've ignored due to tunnel vision, or I've missed a key piece of information (like having a side Mortar and not noticing the armor breach on the primary target) I want my engineer to call for the side guns. If I've got a side Gat or Flamer that's got a nice line of burn I want an update on range and/or ammo remaining, so I can keep him in the damage until his hull drops or the flamer is out of ammo.
Long story short...communicate about the side guns. Call your proximity to them, or ask which side is about to be brought up. Remind inexperienced captains that the Goldfish actually does swim like a fish: forward, side, forward, side, forward, side, trying for the bifecta as much as possible (if your guns allow it). Any good captain should appreciate the communication: worst case scenario you're telling him something he's already aware of, and I know when my crew tells me that stuff I already know it usually just reassures me that we're on the same page.
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I don't think most captains realize that you can keep gun arcs for both the front and side gun if you maintain a proper angle and have the right guns. The easiest combo I found that does this is the hwatcha artemis...it makes disabling much more effective, and it also makes the goldfish a good finishing ship.
I'm assuming I'm not the first captain to figure this out, but I don't think I've seen anyone else doing it that much.
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Gilder, do you mean heavy carronade? I thought I was the only one who couldn't get out of the habit of calling carronades flaks. I blame Unreal Tournament.
I believe he's talking about the olden times when the Heavy Flak was an unbeatable machine of destruction. I would like to point out that all the drawbacks of the Goldfish mentioned are still there with the Heavy Flak being on the front.
I've been gone about six months, and coming back the Goldfish felt like it used to, just without the massively overpowered Heavy Flak, and mass physics reasonably added in.
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I don't think most captains realize that you can keep gun arcs for both the front and side gun if you maintain a proper angle and have the right guns. The easiest combo I found that does this is the hwatcha artemis...it makes disabling much more effective, and it also makes the goldfish a good finishing ship.
I think most experienced Goldfish pilots know this, but it is something that newer pilots tend to forget, yes.
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With the more recent patches I feel the gold fish is underpowered compared to other ships in rolls it traditionally excelled in. The following points are based my gut feeling on the matter and I have little to no hard evidence to back it up.
In the kitable heavy weapons platform roll, the Spire's new gun angles make it a much more powerful ship. At long range the goldfish had a slight advantage over the Spire due to the smaller hit box. One extra light weapon did not count for much when you heavy weapon was missing one out every 4 shots. Three extra light weapons, especially the easy to use Artemis, make the decreased accuracy of the medium gun less of an issue in a spire goldfish duel.
In the disabler roll the Artemis Junker and Mobula builds are proving to be far more effective than a Manticore gold fish. They can engage from longer range and keep an enemy ship pinned far more effectively with a steady stream of fire, as opposed to a wall of rockets every 15 seconds. A hwacha fish is better for delivering a finishing blow to a hull stripped ship than a 3x Artemis ship, but not by much.
In the close range balloon popper roll the Blender fish is still superior than its competition. The heavy coarronade does more damage than the light variant on the squid, and the goldfish is far more capable of surviving the ram which is usually used to finish off a grounded ship. The Goldfish is more maneuverable than the Pyra or spire who might try for this roll. The junker is in a different category since it can not pursue and pop balloons at the same time. Unfortunately close range balloon popping doesn't work against a coordinated team, so the goldfish's best roll is for trolling uncoordinated PUG's.
I have to admit a little bias against the Goldfish. I like to say "on my ship every one shoots," which is untrue on a Goldfish. Also one of my first bad GOIO experiences was with a captain who tried to use the Goldfish as a sniper platform. We spent the entire match ineffectively lobbing heavy flack at targets that were way out of range while out teammate ran in and died over and over again. I never felt more useless.
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Given that it took me a while to get my "Kill Goldfish" achievement done, it can be concluded that the Goldfish is underrepresented, atleast outside novice matches. Since it is one of the 3 ships that are available in novice matches, but still not so common in other matches, it must mean that many people disregards it.
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Most pilots I have flown with just need to work on learning gun arcs and reload times, then remember that the Goldfish has two side guns. I hate sitting on a Goldfish side gun with another ship almost in arc while their armor is down, their guns or engines are disabled... and the Hwatcha is starting a reload.
There's a reason why they called it goldfish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5-YktNq6wc
To swim they tilt their heads to one side and the other... One side and the other... One gun side and the other...
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Since it seems the game has moved heavily towards comboing guns well since early in it's life when the goldfish was designed, I wouldn't be against giving the side guns a tiny bit of a forward tilt. Enough so that you can get a light heavy combo with some weapons, but not enough that you don't have to still swim the ship, and certainly not enough to trifecta.
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I find that despite the Goldfish's decent turning speed, using all three weapons is impractical. I try to only use the right-most sidegun along with the main to maintain a bi-fecta. Switching between all three guns takes too much time and throws off any position-related advantages in my experience. Best to find two guns that overlap in arc and just use those (Heavy Carronade + Artemis, and Hwacha + Light Carronade work well) As to the reason why I use the right-most gun, it's the easiest to access for the hull-engineer. For the left-most gun I usually take a support or an "in case of ambush" weapon.
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I wouldn't be against giving the side guns a tiny bit of a forward tilt.
I would not go there at all. It would become an unhealthy trend that would also go by Squid.
To swim they tilt their heads to one side and the other... One side and the other
Come on guys, think about this. With the use of all 3 guns, you are basically a heavy disabler. Much more so than the Squid
I even hold a mine on my goldfish just to give an extra pressure. Not only that, the goldfish is a good rammer. Not as good as pyra but it can still ramm a ship situationaly.
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Needs more cannons. As in new heavy guns to use on the front. Heavy piercing weapon so you can brawl with the Fish! or a heavy fire weapon because fire weapons are hot.
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I think the goldfish is actually fine the way it is now...
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I find that despite the Goldfish's decent turning speed, using all three weapons is impractical.
I disagree with this. On a blenderfish I prefer mounting a wide-arc support weapon (unsually banshee or arte) on the right side as well. However I really don't want to miss the mortar I usually put on the left side. It can come in very handy to deliver the killing blow in case there is not structure around to allow a proper crash. Strip'n strave or ramming in an angle which bounces in the mortar are quite efficient for mid air encounters, imo.
As for the hwacha fish (which I rarely ever fly, because I dislike it) all 3 slots can be utilized decently as well. hwacha shot on approach, gat volley to strip the hull, hwacha again to disable and either inflict first hull damage or to finish the striping work. Followed by a mortarvolley to finish the job.
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I find that despite the Goldfish's decent turning speed, using all three weapons is impractical.
I disagree with this. On a blenderfish I prefer mounting a wide-arc support weapon (unsually banshee or arte) on the right side as well. However I really don't want to miss the mortar I usually put on the left side. It can come in very handy to deliver the killing blow in case there is not structure around to allow a proper crash. Strip'n strave or ramming in an angle which bounces in the mortar are quite efficient for mid air encounters, imo.
As for the hwacha fish (which I rarely ever fly, because I dislike it) all 3 slots can be utilized decently as well. hwacha shot on approach, gat volley to strip the hull, hwacha again to disable and either inflict first hull damage or to finish the striping work. Followed by a mortarvolley to finish the job.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. I find it's too slow even with claw to be effective, since decent engineers will have the hull back up before the mortar sees any use. Granted, they'll be completely disabled and that's the primary goal of a Goldfish, but by turning from side to side you give up any positional advantage gained from sustained orbiting, whereas if you continued orbiting you could end up in a better position to take out their engines. Also, with the slowed momentum and extra time taken concentrating on one enemy I feel more susceptible to fire from the enemy's ally. I feel it's best to switch targets and disable the second enemy anyway while your own ally cleans up the disabled one. The Goldie is a support ship after all
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Decent engineers on which ship?
The best engineer cant rebuild a hull of certain ships fast enough.
A Squid has pretty much no armor. Thats the reason for its absurd low rebuild time (4 spanner hits). I agree for the squid its probably impossible to get the switch fast enough.
But for most other ships (specially pyra, junker and galleon) you will have alot of time to switch.
Other ships are more tricky due to their lower armor causing lower rebuild times.
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Like I said, in my experience it's not worth turning to use all three guns and has never been in all my time flying Goldfish. So I respectfully disagree. It uses up a lot of time that could be better spent doing other things, such as disabling the other enemy ship or sustained fire with the right-side gun (granted it's reload is relatively short).
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While not completely forward facing, I think something like a 15-20 degree tilt forward on the side guns would boost the popularity and viability of the goldfish. One of the changes that helped make the spire viable was when they tilted the top right gun forwards. Perhaps the Goldfish needs that intention. You would still largely need to do a wobble play, however, it would be much more practical.
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Overall it's a bit of a trickier ship. I'm actually not for it being one of the beginner ships due to the single front mounted gun. Often they'll stick a hwacha or flak on it, and only use that gun without making use of the side guns.
Personally I find the side guns very important, the game promotes weapon synergy. Using different damage types (such as piercing/explosive) is always more effective than a single damage type alone. For instance just using a hwacha will never kill an enemy. Most of the damage will be soaked up in the armor and components, and then it's a long reload while they fix everything. You can keep them more or less disabled, but it's going to be a slow match.
So using a side weapon (such as a gatling gun) before unleashing your hwacha or even flak cannon can massively improve performance.
Longitudinal Speed: 40.11 m/s (Squid is at 47 m/s, pyra is at 32 m/s)
Longitudinal Acceleration: 3.5 m/s2 (squid is at 5.5, junker is at 4.3, mobula is 4.25, spire is at 3)
Turn Speed: 13.99 degrees/s (squid is 18.95, junker is 16.18, mobula is 14.02, spire is 11.99 )
Turn Acceleration: 7.99 degress/s2 (squid is 20, junker is 15.24, spire is 15.02, pyra is 6.25)
Mass: 150 tonnes (Galleon is 320, pyra is 200, spire is 150, junker is 125)
Lift force: 487500 Newtons (Mobula is 900k, Galleon is 720k, Spire is 562.5k, Pyra is 550k, Squid is 460k)
Vertical Speed: 16.99 m/s (Junker is 17.06, Galleon is 17.01, Mobula is 17.01, Squid is 17, Spire is 17, Pyra is 16.97)
Vertical Acceleration: 3.25 m/s2 (Mobula is 7.5, Squid is 4, Spire is 3.75, Junker is 3)
Armor: 400 (Squid is 230, Spire is 400, Mobula is 600)
Health: 1100 (Galleon is 1400, Squid is 850, Spire is 750)
I usually like to consider the goldfish to be nimble, but that's not really the case. It's about average all around according to it's stats. The second fastest ship but not the best at accelerating, turning, changing altitude. Armor and HP it's pretty similar to the squid, just tougher (low armor, high HP). It's a good ramming ship, but only because that front gun will soak up most of the impact before the ship starts taking damage.
It can certainly be used well, but it does lack the killing power most other ships have due to the gun placements. Some of the heavy guns are difficult to use on it, because they're not designed to be used alone. You could stick a lumberjack on it, but if your goal is to snipe, you might as well use a galleon or spire.
You could try a flak, but it's going to take a day and a half to get their armor down before you start doing real damage (again, try a galleon or spire).
A hwacha is a good choice, since you can get up close and personal, and make good use of those side guns during the long reload. A galleon has a more difficult time chasing, but can often kill a lot faster with it's other weapons combined with a hwacha, where a spire can wreck with all it's light guns and a hwacha, but usually doesn't want to be that close.
A carronade is (in my opinion) one of the best guns for the goldfish. Since it's front mounted, it's a lot easy to chase and keep on them, where on a bulky galleon they're a bit harder to follow (but then again, most ships disintegrate when they're in carronade range of the galleon). And again, spires tend not to want to be that close. The average maneuverability and durability of the goldfish allow it to take the punches while it closes the distance and keep hitting while it stays on them. The single front gun and low reload time means your engineers can focus on fixing and not need to jump on guns frequently (although using a side mounted mortar, flamethrower, or even mine launcher (etc) can massively decrease the time to kill).
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What would I change if anything?
I think it'd be nice for the ship to be a little more maneuverable. Having more HP is nice, but it's not going to help when you can't avoid the damage and your armor is constantly popping. It only has 3 guns, two of which can be used at most, and only one being used most of the time. The components are pretty spread out, making it hard on your engineers, even though they're not as busy shooting (which can be a problem if you need them to get to the gun fast. It's a bigger ship than it seems.)
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The goldfish is a great newbie ship, its layout is pretty strait forward and it goes well with the standard newbie play style of: fly strait at them shooting, bounce off a ram, turn back on target and repeat. It has a very good turn rate and acceleration, which works well for pilots who haven't got the hang of ship maneuvering. Also since it can only point one gun at a target newbie engineers can devote more of their attention to fixing stuff.
Unfortunately the things that make the goldfish excellent in as a trainer, make it less useful in higher level play.
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I wouldn't say it's very good at turning or accelerating (it's rated 4th turning speed, turning acceleration, and even longitudinal acceleration).
The ships has really spread out components, making it just shy of impossible to coordinate the crew into different roles. Where the pyra and junker are a little easier to separate out naturally. The pyra has all the low deck components so easy to reach, while the other engi often grabs a gun and watches the balloon. The junker has the top engines, balloon, and side guns close, while the bottom engine, hull, and other guns are close.
For the goldfish, the top engine and balloon are kind of close, but it's a bit of a jog. The lower engines and hull are even further. Taking care of all the components is a lot of running.
Then there's guns. Newer players will focus on using only one at a time, sometimes it's the front gun, and sometimes they'll just try to circle their enemy with the side gun. The time to kill is extremely long, and very often doesn't happen. While the pyra and junker can get multiple guns on a target, and since they're presets, they work together well to minimize the time to kill.
Just go and watch the youtubers who decided to use a goldfish. They did a very nice job of representing new players and how they try to use the goldfish right off the bat.
Personally I feel it takes some more experience, and at least a little knowledge of weapon and damage types before someone should use the goldfish. They'd have an easier time with a squid (and even that is pretty rough on the engineers).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTxhpMs2_gE
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We don't see the Goldfish much in competitive play. Is that because all the other ships can do what the Goldfish does better? Is it because the front gun can be taking down so easily making the ship next to useless? Or is it simply that the Goldfish can not provide what a team needs.
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It fulfills mostly as a supportive, disruptive role.
Its the ship that rams a ship that is hurting you teamate. It is quick, it can recover from turns very quickly. Disrupting an enemy to stop him from shooting an ally. Goldfish is the best one out there for that. Just think about how quick the goldfish really recovers from most type of situations.
Add with a good Heavy weapon, you have a playstyle, or use of the goldfish in its own. This is where he is disruptive with its heavy carronade and Hwacha. With pheonix claw, you can easily play with the side guns. I honestly dont know why you would comment on the side gns being too much of a hasstle to use. Use them, dont put a flimsy mortar or anything... i mean you can. You dont need an engineer to use them, the gunner can run and he should. Place something that will stick. Flamer, Mines, Artemis, Banshee, carronade. Something quick and simple. With your weapons in mind, you can create a 1v1 situation for your ally.
With Lumberjack, you can outright suprise ships. Goldfish is very quick and with agility. It can appier from flanking positions in no time.
The goldfish, with tactical tought involved downright can outplay a spire. Or a galleon. You may not kill as well, but you are creating another 1v1 situation or 1v helpless2.
Im just giving out ideas. Whenever im on a goldfish, i feel utterly helpless alone. No matter what gun combination. But with an ally, i seek to hold one down. And make my ally the hero he is. And the goldfish is the best one to do that.
If you want to be a good goldfish, think of it in that way. The sidekick.
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The question is, why would you want a hero and a sidekick when you can have two heroes?
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The question is, why would you want a hero and a sidekick when you can have two heroes?
Because sometimes the hero is Don Quixote and he needs a side kick to keep him from getting himself killed. If I am stuck with a newbie team mate I take a support build. It is better to let "the hero" get some kills, than show how awesome I am at carrying a team. However my support build of choice is the 2x merc Pyramidion. Newbies gravitate towards the flashy explosive weapons so they need someone to strip the hull armor.
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It fulfills mostly as a supportive, disruptive role.
Its the ship that rams a ship that is hurting you teamate. It is quick, it can recover from turns very quickly. Disrupting an enemy to stop him from shooting an ally. Goldfish is the best one out there for that. Just think about how quick the goldfish really recovers from most type of situations.
Add with a good Heavy weapon, you have a playstyle, or use of the goldfish in its own. This is where he is disruptive with its heavy carronade and Hwacha. With pheonix claw, you can easily play with the side guns. I honestly dont know why you would comment on the side gns being too much of a hasstle to use. Use them, dont put a flimsy mortar or anything... i mean you can. You dont need an engineer to use them, the gunner can run and he should. Place something that will stick. Flamer, Mines, Artemis, Banshee, carronade. Something quick and simple. With your weapons in mind, you can create a 1v1 situation for your ally.
With Lumberjack, you can outright suprise ships. Goldfish is very quick and with agility. It can appier from flanking positions in no time.
The goldfish, with tactical tought involved downright can outplay a spire. Or a galleon. You may not kill as well, but you are creating another 1v1 situation or 1v helpless2.
Im just giving out ideas. Whenever im on a goldfish, i feel utterly helpless alone. No matter what gun combination. But with an ally, i seek to hold one down. And make my ally the hero he is. And the goldfish is the best one to do that.
If you want to be a good goldfish, think of it in that way. The sidekick.
Better suited for 1v1 combat, Fills a support role, designed for disabling. I can see why most teams don't bring one. Better to force a 2v1 engagement and focus on raw killing power than to bring a Goldfish and disable some parts.
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Many times have i been on matches with 2 ships really good at killing. But then one of us gets disabled.
Most killer weapons that dont support much need another gun to compliment the other out and do a combo. Gat mort is a good example.
Then you have weapons that can do stuff alone. Like Carronade, Flamer, Mines etc.
How the guns placed on the goldfish makes it so that every gun is some sort of support. A gattling on the side can be that extra armor braker for your teamate.
The flamer will not almost ever be complimented with another gun on a goldfish.
That is why the goldfish is as said, very full of agility. How the ship flies makes using guns much easier. It recovers quicker than other ships and lasts longer than other ships for it to be helped, and come back to help quicker.
Now have that in mind, suddenly. 2 Killing ships are up against 1 killing and one support. The support disables one killing. The supports ally fights with the other killing. If the support is focused by the un-disabled killing ship, he will survive it and the ally killing ship will have no trouble killing THAT. But if Both from the start focus the support ship, the ally killing ship from the get go will have an open approach against one of the killing ship. The goldfish support ship is going to get damaged, but ultimately he will disable one and Chute/Hydro/Kyrosine away from fire because of its survivability.
Easier said than done. Just talking about the goldfish like this makes me wanna go back to it.
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You could just disable the front gun on the Goldfish and focus on his friend. It seems like most of the tactics that involve the Goldfish relies on him disabling one ship so you can focus down the other. That or force a 1v1 situation where the Goldfish can lock down a single ship and kill it.
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Remember when everyone thought the carronade was op and people regularly stomped in pubs with the Goldfish?
Currently artemis are meta and slightly overpowered, leaving many to look past the goldfish as a ship choice. Also there are few really good close range heavy weapon options for the goldfish.
Artemis changes are currently being considered, the only thing left that we really need is a new close range high powered heavy weapon.
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Anybody else notice that the Spire and the Goldfish have the same amount of armor? I find this a little odd seeing how the Spire is designed to be a glass cannon. Do you guys think the Goldfish should have more armor than the spire?
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The spire is a glass cannon — the hull goes down quickly, and then it dies quickly due to its smaller permahull pool, especially with the balloon being popped, whereas the goldie can stand that for a while, and usually bounces more when its hull and balloon are down and it hits the ground.
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Surpised this thread made it into 2014. So I guess nothing changed in my absense?
Kind of disapointing I have to admit. Awkm, you disapoint me very much so. :P
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Glow Water Thralls and Overwatch have made good use of the hwacha fish in competitive play. Expect to see more of this in the upcoming Sky League.
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Glow Water Thralls and Overwatch have made good use of the hwacha fish in competitive play. Expect to see more of this in the upcoming Sky League.
14-second-reload-rocket-Fish has been around since forever as a soft counter to Galleons and Junkers, which I'm guessing is pretty much all that is being played lately.
That is still a most disapointing thought, that the Goldfish is still pretty much just a soft counter to specific ships with no other evolution what so ever to be more competitive. If only the Hellhound was never touched since 1.2
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Some ships and weapons are just not suitable for competitive play.
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Some ships and weapons are just not suitable for competitive play.
Maybe, but I'm not getting into this discussion, I'm not nearly invested enough into the game for that anymore. Input appreciated anyway tho.
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Echoez, Why did you resurrect a thread that you don't wan't to be part of a discussion in? Why even bother commenting if you don't care about the game anymore?
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Echoez, Why did you resurrect a thread that you don't wan't to be part of a discussion in? Why even bother commenting if you don't care about the game anymore?
Because I was actually heavily invested before and I kinda spend money on it, so I check it periodically to see if anything has gotten better/changed, if you don't mind of course. Also I was the one I started this thread if you didn't notice, lol.
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Psst, rumor has it a close range heavy weapon is being heavily considered... maybe not in the immediate future, but gossip has certainly started.
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Psst, rumor has it a close range heavy weapon is being heavily considered... maybe not in the immediate future, but gossip has certainly started.
Hopefully Autocannons, though I'm not gonna get excited over 'rumors' :P
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Goldfish is certainly under utilised, but I wouldn't call it underpowered. It's still a nimble ship (might not have any stat best but if utilsed correctly it can still survive much more than any pyra would. - Also don't rely on the numbers in the book too much, they arent entirely accurate (we know listed speed of either prya or Goldfish is wrong for example).
Goldfish's primary role is to force enemy teams into unfavorable situations, and it's still very good at it.
The only ship i'd say is screwed atm is the Poor squid (prya can still turn fast enough to keep it in it's arcs with help of phoenix claw -assuming squid doesen't sneak from behing the enemy ship).
Saying some weapons aren't for competitive play is silly (with exception of harpoon becouse that one isn't woring as intanded). Every weapon can work in competitive play - just all of the weapons are not equaly universal. We have won competitive matches by using gat-mine front on pyra. And that is certainly not meta.
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I would like to see more heavy weapons for the Goldfish so it can preform more roles on the battlefield. One of the big weaknesses of the Goldfish is it's lack of versatility.