Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Van Manfred on October 18, 2013, 09:58:51 am
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I am not the most experienced player, but the more I play, the more I appreciate Light weaponry over Medium ones. In my humble and maybe incorrect opinion, their little clips, loading time, slow projectiles and general clumsiness in movement and firing arcs for only slightly superior damage is a bad compromise. It is even moreso since they now recoil so much when firing them. Give them a Spire, and most gunners will prefer manning the light weapon on top instead of the clumsy beast below.
Also, Medium gun emplacement have like three times less choice for outfitting them. What's missing in this category, is a quick-firing, short-to-medium range weapon, reasoneably accurate, that either has a good magazine or a shorter reload. Something like a quad Gatling, or a quick-firing harpoon Ballista. Anything, really, to make them even desirable.
I would be glad to hear some of the vets' comments and tips about Medium weaponnery.
PS - I know there must have been some threads around this subject, but I didn't feel like necroposting anything past the first two pages.
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I cant agree with you on this.
Besides the carronade every medium weapon is a stronger aquivalent to its little brother.
THe hwacha can disable a whole ship when you have an experienced player on it. The artemis needs much longer to disable a even certain components with its 4 rockets.
The hflak will nearly instakill an unarmored ship while a light flak will take much longer.
The lumberjack doesnt even have a light aquivalent.
Only the heavy carronade is a bid weird cause it needs 3 bullets (while only having a clip of 2) to kill a balloon while a light carronade can kill a balloon in one clip.
So no in a good build a med gun is mostly the better choice.
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Only the heavy carronade is a bid weird cause it needs 3 bullets (while only having a clip of 2) to kill a balloon while a light carronade can kill a balloon in one clip.
This is false by a lot. The heavy carronade is in all ways superior to the light carronade. Higher damage per shot, higher damage per minute, longer range and it can two shot balloons.
As for the other heavy weapons, they're some of the hardest weapons to really master in GOI, but the payout is worth it when you do.
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The light guns are generally preferred when going into PUG's because you don't know the quality of your crew. It is easier to zero in on a target with a large clip fast reload gun than with a slower heavier hitting weapon. Also the ships that carry heavy weapons are very dependent on the gunner skill (exception the Blenderfish and to a degree Hwachafish). Even the best captains can't get a sniperfish, spire, or galleon to work if their gunner's can't hit. Ships that mount the medium guns tend to be "worse" than the ships that mount lighter guns. They are either lacking multiple gun angles, health, or maneuverability. This is of course offset by the added fire power a medium gun provides. It is not that the medium guns are worse than light guns as they are just riskier to take. Victory will depend less on the captain's skill and not all captains are comfortable with that.
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No it actually cant two shot balloons if u dont get charged rounds or a buff on it.
With normal ammo and no buff it needs 3 hits on a balloon.
And as Hamster said it. You have to hit with that guns.
The lumberjack and the heavy flak need to hit. And they are longrange/midrange weapons. Its not as many light guns. Get in close and just spray the enemy.
If you cant hit that sniper weapons you are useless. There is a reason that only few ppl use this. This sniper ships are even rarely seen in Competetive. And that has a reason.
Even a Manticore needs a good player. Yes every idiot can hit with it but to get the disable you need you have to take a decent player. Look a competetive hwachaplayer and a public.
The Public will rarely get 3-4 disables on the enemy. The comp player will disable 90% of the enemy.
Only the heavy carronade is easy to hit. But to use it on its fullest its hard when not on a blenderfish. A Spire will most likely not take a carronade and to utilize a carronade as engineer on a galleon it takes a bid. If you cant get the balloon in one clip for which u need charged rounds or a buff, you can leave that weapon alone.
This is the thing with the medium guns. They are more sniper weapons and this is actually one of the hardest things to pull of effectively.
You need good gunners, you need a decent ally to protect you and you need a pilot with alot of map awareness to not fall for the enemies tricks.
Oh and you need alot! of patience. Which might be the biggest issue in pubs.
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No it actually cant two shot balloons if u dont get charged rounds or a buff on it.
With normal ammo and no buff it needs 3 hits on a balloon.
Who ever uses normal ammo in a heavy carronade? Point being, it's a very weak point to use making it sound worse off then the light carro. I'll refrain from derailing now.
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Who? Me cause when im on a sniper galleon with a hflak, a lumberjack one side and a hcarro, manticore other side. And as engineer i have only one ammo type i probably take lesmok to get the longrange i need. So i cant take charged rounds.
And i didnt ask for a change. Im fine with that fact.
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1 Heavy Carronade shot has 340 flechette damage and 360 shatter damage.
Multiplied by the modifiers (340*1.8) + (360*.2) = 684 balloon damage per shot * 2 shots (684*2) = 1368 balloon damage per clip.
All goi ships have 1200 balloon health so even with vanilla, accurate gunnery can two shot a balloon with damage to spare. This of course is greatly assisted by use of heavy clip, charged rounds, lochnagar and/or a buff set further easing the assured destruction of your opponents balloon.
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A medium Carronade using Heavy Clip easily two shots balloons at gatling ranges.
A medium Flak, when used well, needs only 3-4 shots to take out an unarmored Galleon.
The Hwacha is the best weapon at its job, ie. breaking many components in a few seconds.
The Lumberjack, arguably the hardest medium gun to use, is absolutely devastating when used right. Balloon is gone in 2-3 hits, even if you don't hit it directly, and it strips armor ridiculously fast. The only time I've felt more helpless than being locked down by an LJ is being locked down by pre 1.3 dual Mercs.
Medium weapons, while I agree that there should be more, fill their role well.
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Well i think some numbers have changed on this because im pretty sure i once shot and hit 2 hcarro shots on a balloon and it didnt instapop. And as u cant buff the hp of a balloon there is either a fail at my side which i will watch or the numbers arent correct anymore but thats not the point of this thread imo so bbt ;).
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Well i think some numbers have changed on this because im pretty sure i once shot and hit 2 hcarro shots on a balloon and it didnt instapop. And as u cant buff the hp of a balloon there is either a fail at my side which i will watch or the numbers arent correct anymore but thats not the point of this thread imo so bbt ;).
It's common to hit two shots of heavy carronade into a balloon without a balloon break. The carronade shoots 16(?) projectiles with a fair amount of spread but only shows one hit marker per componant hit.
With the new hit markers you could hit 1 or 16 of the hit scan projectiles and get the same hit marker on the balloon. You really only know how accurate you've been after the second shot; if the balloon pops you've been accurate enough, if it doesn't than you missed (or were too far out to hit all the shots against the balloon you were aiming at).
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I am not the most experienced player, but the more I play, the more I appreciate Light weaponry over Medium ones. In my humble and maybe incorrect opinion, their little clips, loading time, slow projectiles and general clumsiness in movement and firing arcs for only slightly superior damage is a bad compromise. It is even moreso since they now recoil so much when firing them. Give them a Spire, and most gunners will prefer manning the light weapon on top instead of the clumsy beast below.
Also, Medium gun emplacement have like three times less choice for outfitting them. What's missing in this category, is a quick-firing, short-to-medium range weapon, reasoneably accurate, that either has a good magazine or a shorter reload. Something like a quad Gatling, or a quick-firing harpoon Ballista. Anything, really, to make them even desirable.
I would be glad to hear some of the vets' comments and tips about Medium weaponnery.
PS - I know there must have been some threads around this subject, but I didn't feel like necroposting anything past the first two pages.
Main reason you don't see many Heavy weapons is because of the ships that accomodate them can be a pain to master. Yes, even the Goldfish which is probably one of the most popular Heavy gun bearing ships, having only one gun facing at one direction isn't always easy, comes with drawbacks.
Light guns are easy to get used to, they usually have large clips and allow for more mistakes, plus most of themdon't REQUIRE you to bring a gunner, so you can go a third engineer which makes people feel safer and more durable sometimes.
An other reason you might feel like this is because currently there is only one Heavy brawling weapon, the Heavy Carronade, all others are artillery guns so they are harder to shoot (Lumberjack, Flak) or just have too long a reload time to be considered a true brawling weapon (Hwacha).
There's lots of understanding that you need of the game to get used to some of the current Heavies, but I'm sure Muse has more brawling Heavies on the way. (Still waiting on that Heavy Flamer.)
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Sometimes you just get sth and explained and feel real stupid afterwards :D.
Thx for making that clear.
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I cant agree with you on this.
Besides the carronade every medium weapon is a stronger aquivalent to its little brother.
THe hwacha can disable a whole ship when you have an experienced player on it. The artemis needs much longer to disable a even certain components with its 4 rockets.
The hflak will nearly instakill an unarmored ship while a light flak will take much longer.
Longer? In terms of seconds of firing? I'd take the light flak in a fight, since it can fire 4 projectiles by the time the heavy one fires two. And if one of those two shot miss (like between hull and balloon), you just given extra time to the other ship's engineer, whereas it is of little consequence with light flak. Granted, prceise firing with little Flak requires Heavies, but if the target's close enough you'll hit with anything in there.
The lumberjack doesnt even have a light aquivalent.
Yet there's two mortarlike guns among Light weapons, both a lot easier to use than Lumbering Jack. One in broadside position on a moving galleon is all but useless - The projectiles are not fast enough, and if they are, then the ennemy is too close for the shots to arm, or to have an AoE damage. To be the one-shotter that it can be, Jack requires a stationnary ship, a solid gunner, an engineer to buff it up once the range is found, the Pilot for spotting the shots, time, and an almost willing target - near perfect conditions that are rarely met in combat.
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(slightly off-topic)
It still feels weird to me now that they are referred to as medium weapons when there aren't any larger guns.
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(slightly off-topic)
It still feels weird to me now that they are referred to as medium weapons when there aren't any larger guns.
A bit of a reference to this one would assume
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/310693_131329320300939_922079927_n.jpg)
What would have been the heavy howitzer.
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The medium flak is so much more powerful than the light flak. A buffed charged shot from a heavy flak one shots a pyramidion. You need every last shot of a buffed light flak to make a pyra kill.
Nothing compares in the game to the raw power of the lumberjack. Find a gunner that can land every shot and prepare to have a hard time keeping anyone in your lobby after the matches end.
These weapons are hard to use granted, but they're made up for by sheer brute force. There is absolutely nothing more satisfying in GOI than one shotting an enemy ship with a long range heavy flak round. It's like shooting a game winning three point shot in basketball that you know is going in as it leaves your fingers and spending the next few seconds basking in glory as it slowly sinks in between the rim and swooshes through the net.
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@Piemanlives; Yeah, that one's heavy. Or the ones you can see on the battleship hulks layering the ground. Looks like a 18-20" bore on that beast. That's grade "A" bang-bang machinery for sure. :P
The medium flak is so much more powerful than the light flak. A buffed charged shot from a heavy flak one shots a pyramidion. You need every last shot of a buffed light flak to make a pyra kill.
But not a Pyramidion with a buffed hull. Or any other kind of ship, excepting maybe an ill-crewed Spire. The perfect conditions you wrote usually only happen as the result of an ambush at startgame. Buff and load the little Flak the same way, in the same conditions, and you'll have similar results (it packs quite a punch too), as you wrote.
Nothing compares in the game to the raw power of the lumberjack. Find a gunner that can land every shot and prepare to have a hard time keeping anyone in your lobby after the matches end.
I agree - but it requires "that gunner", not some engineer who happens to pass by, like for a Light gun. The real edge here is the gunner's quality, more than the gun's. A great engineer, too, is quite the boon. Great gunners can indeed make good use of any weapons, Medium ones included. But as I wrote, they require more specific conditions, that you are not entirely sure to have if you don't sign in with your own full crew.
These weapons are hard to use granted, but they're made up for by sheer brute force. There is absolutely nothing more satisfying in GOI than one shotting an enemy ship with a long range heavy flak round. It's like shooting a game winning three point shot in basketball that you know is going in as it leaves your fingers and spending the next few seconds basking in glory as it slowly sinks in between the rim and swooshes through the net.
Aye !!!
But nonetheless, I just wish there was more choices and polyvalency in Medium weapons still.
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There simply ain't enough Heavy weapon content at the moment and since Muse refuses to add some sort of heavy flamethrower or a heavy auto-cannon there probably won't be enough brawling heavy guns in the future either, it's a pity to see the big boys underused for sure.
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There simply ain't enough Heavy weapon content at the moment and since Muse refuses to add some sort of heavy flamethrower or a heavy auto-cannon there probably won't be enough brawling heavy guns in the future either, it's a pity to see the big boys underused for sure.
I can sort of understand that though...if you have a heavy auto-cannon with good armor shredding or a really strong brawling weapon, the Galleon suddenly becomes a complete beast, as it's able to just kill you quickly with any side.
It also makes heavy gun tag-teams WAY to powerful: imagine a faster-than-gatling armor shred on a Auto-Cannon fish, while a Lochnager Flak Fish flies alongside him.
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I can sort of understand that though...if you have a heavy auto-cannon with good armor shredding or a really strong brawling weapon, the Galleon suddenly becomes a complete beast, as it's able to just kill you quickly with any side.
It also makes heavy gun tag-teams WAY to powerful: imagine a faster-than-gatling armor shred on a Auto-Cannon fish, while a Lochnager Flak Fish flies alongside him.
A brawling Galleon will never be a problem in my eyes as long as the Lumberjack exists and that ship itself is as slow as it is now simply enough cause it's too easy to counter and keep out of its gun arcs. There is a reason that ship ain't that good at brawling even with the current Uber-carronade of blending doom side that we've seen used in Flotsam, it's lack of agility is very easily taken advantage of, plus an Auto-cannon would require aimming and leading, wouldn't be hit scan, as long as it isn't way better than the old Gatling in 1.2 I don't see a problem with it and would make for a good weapon both aestheticaly as well as challenging to fire on the move.
Flakfish would still be horrible cause it's not a self suffiecient ship and has 0 utility.
A Heavy Flamerthrower of kinds or even a Napalm gun would add to the brawling arsenal of heavy guns with lots of utility and a sort of jack of all trades but master of none, could also have an interesting mechanic, utilizing liquid gasoline so you have an arc'ed stream of fire to aim with istead of the gas based light flamer.
These are guns that could be utilized on all heavy gun ships and provide some much needed variety, honestly after than 900th Sniper Galleon I have seen, even a "Gat/Flak" Galleon would be a welcome change.
Or even lightning based tesla gun, they even have models ready for these that are not used.
It's not my game to make, but there's so much that could be done and isn't being done, the arsenal of heavy guns is left lacking and I'm honestly already burnt out of the current guns as a guy that likes flying the ships that equip them.
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A Heavy Flamerthrower of kinds or even a Napalm gun would add to the brawling arsenal of heavy guns with lots of utility and a sort of jack of all trades but master of none, could also have an interesting mechanic, utilizing liquid gasoline so you have an arc'ed stream of fire to aim with istead of the gas based light flamer.
(...) Or even lightning based tesla gun, they even have models ready for these that are not used.
Terrific ideas.
+1
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The medium flak is so much more powerful than the light flak. A buffed charged shot from a heavy flak one shots a pyramidion. You need every last shot of a buffed light flak to make a pyra kill.
But not a Pyramidion with a buffed hull. Or any other kind of ship, excepting maybe an ill-crewed Spire. The perfect conditions you wrote usually only happen as the result of an ambush at startgame. Buff and load the little Flak the same way, in the same conditions, and you'll have similar results (it packs quite a punch too), as you wrote.
Buffed hull makes no difference how much damage needs to be done to the permahull to destroy a ship to my knowledge.
The Buffed Charged Flak also oneshots Mobula, Spire and Junker (last one even with only either buff or charged).
A Lochnager Flak oneshots all ships but Galleon and Goldfish, if it is also buffed, it even oneshots Goldfish.
Specific condition for Lumberjack? A gunner who has some experience with it and you can effectively use it at 1000m, a gunner who regularly uses it and you can effectively use it on up to 2000m. Other than that, the enemy has to stay further away than 176m or 165m (Greased/Heatsink or Incendiary) which, considering the nature of the gun, shouldn't be a problem as long as the pilot is able enough to point his broadside at the enemy before the enemy is already on the approach for the ram. Only the Mercury and Typhoon have comparable ranged effectiveness, the Mercury does not strips hulls even half as fast as the LJ, the Typhoon is a Medium weapon.
Heavy Carronade needs two shots to take down bloons, as long as the bloon is not clapped with a mallet in between those shots. If the Carro is buffed, even the clap won't help the victim. It also has greater range than the light carronade. The light carronade might still be better though, comparing the goldfish with heavy carro to pyramidion, the pyra would have two light carros which would take as long to pop bloons as one heavy one and deal some damage to armor on top. comparing the blenderfish to squid, the squid can way more easily stay out of gunarcs of enemy ships whilst getting its front gun to shoot the enemy quicker.
The use of the Hellhound on the Spire is... arguable to say the least.
The Hellhound on the galleon would only be compareable to Barking Dog on Junker I assume.... but I won't dare to do that comparison here.
Manticore: Disable entire ships in about two seconds is useless? That is a powerful ability in my opinion. Coordinate with teammate to use the time in which one enemy is entirely helpless. (for example, goldfish disables one enemy, then uses sidemounted gatling to help strip the other enemy whilst the captain on the first ship can't do anything but look)
I give you that, the medium weapons don't excel among all the weapons in the game. Don't think of the weapon categories as Medium>Light, think of them as equals with different uses. After all, you don't compare all explosive weapons to all piercing weapons either.
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Buffed hull makes no difference how much damage needs to be done to the permahull to destroy a ship to my knowledge.
The Buffed Charged Flak also oneshots Mobula, Spire and Junker (last one even with only either buff or charged).
A Lochnager Flak oneshots all ships but Galleon and Goldfish, if it is also buffed, it even oneshots Goldfish.
Yeah. Well, "one-shot" is a misnommer. The real gold is DPS (reload included), or time needed to kill. And in terms of DPS, a light weapon generally does as much damage as a medium one (if not more) in a given amount of time - except that a missed shot costs a lot more on a medium. Sure, they're more spectacular too.
Specific condition for Lumberjack? A gunner who has some experience with it and you can effectively use it at 1000m, a gunner who regularly uses it and you can effectively use it on up to 2000m. Other than that, the enemy has to stay further away than 176m or 165m (Greased/Heatsink or Incendiary) which, considering the nature of the gun, shouldn't be a problem as long as the pilot is able enough to point his broadside at the enemy before the enemy is already on the approach for the ram. Only the Mercury and Typhoon have comparable ranged effectiveness, the Mercury does not strips hulls even half as fast as the LJ, the Typhoon is a Medium weapon.
I'll admit that the generally longer range of medium weapon makes them deadly in the hands of a great gunner. And with a great pilot at the wheel. And in a open battlefield. And versus a below-average opponent.
Heavy Carronade needs two shots to take down bloons, as long as the bloon is not clapped with a mallet in between those shots. If the Carro is buffed, even the clap won't help the victim. It also has greater range than the light carronade. The light carronade might still be better though, comparing the goldfish with heavy carro to pyramidion, the pyra would have two light carros which would take as long to pop bloons as one heavy one and deal some damage to armor on top. comparing the blenderfish to squid, the squid can way more easily stay out of gunarcs of enemy ships whilst getting its front gun to shoot the enemy quicker.
The use of the Hellhound on the Spire is... arguable to say the least.
The Hellhound on the galleon would only be compareable to Barking Dog on Junker I assume.... but I won't dare to do that comparison here.
A wise decision. Carronades are at their best when you have a vertical movement advantage over your opponent - to shoot at the balloon, then to get back at the fast-descending target. For this reason, the heavy ones are only usable as a main armement on a Goldfish "playing Squid" (a task at which the Squid, with a lighter carronade, is better). I agree that carronades usually suck as a defensive armement on the slower vessels.
Manticore: Disable entire ships in about two seconds is useless? That is a powerful ability in my opinion. Coordinate with teammate to use the time in which one enemy is entirely helpless. (for example, goldfish disables one enemy, then uses sidemounted gatling to help strip the other enemy whilst the captain on the first ship can't do anything but look)
Now that's a defensive weaponnery. The Hwachas are good to impose an area of denial, but their lack of precision, loading time and relatively low concentrated damage makes them ill-suited to the finishing role. And yet they're still the best thing to mount on a Galleon, given their ease of use in a hurry, unless you have a clear enough horizon to play bang-bang with two gunners and heavy flak/Lumberjack.
To disable a ship - and to finish it, you must certainly be familiar with the heavy- then charged-clipped Gatling, IMO a much better weapon.
I give you that, the medium weapons don't excel among all the weapons in the game. Don't think of the weapon categories as Medium>Light, think of them as equals with different uses. After all, you don't compare all explosive weapons to all piercing weapons either.
You are right - but they are not an alternative to light weapons. A medium weapon slot cannot accomodate a lighter one. And because of this, I would like having more hoice, more polyvalency out of them. Imagine how the Goldfish and Spires would be good with more choices.
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Buffed hull makes no difference how much damage needs to be done to the permahull to destroy a ship to my knowledge.
The Buffed Charged Flak also oneshots Mobula, Spire and Junker (last one even with only either buff or charged).
A Lochnager Flak oneshots all ships but Galleon and Goldfish, if it is also buffed, it even oneshots Goldfish.
Yeah. Well, "one-shot" is a misnommer. The real gold is DPS (reload included), or time needed to kill. And in terms of DPS, a light weapon generally does as much damage as a medium one (if not more) in a given amount of time - except that a missed shot costs a lot more on a medium. Sure, they're more spectacular too
Again this is incorrect. I have a carefully curated spreadsheet containing the dps for every weapon in the game and there is no light weapon that outshines its heavy variant in dps.
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Why call this a discussion? You obviously already made up your mind and are not open to the arguments of more experienced players.
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Yeah. Well, "one-shot" is a misnommer. The real gold is DPS (reload included), or time needed to kill. And in terms of DPS, a light weapon generally does as much damage as a medium one (if not more) in a given amount of time - except that a missed shot costs a lot more on a medium. Sure, they're more spectacular too.
Assuming we're talking DPS against favorable components, the most effective Heavy Gun against a given component often outdamages the most effective light gun against that component (in terms of Damage-per-Second).
Balloon: 173 (Heavy Carronade) vs. 158 (Light Carronade)
Hull: 158 (Heavy Flak) vs 158 (Mortar)
Guns/Engines: 232 (Lumberjack Heavy Mortar) vs 112 (Mercury Field Gun)
Armor: 48 (Heavy Carronade) vs 60 (Gatling)
As you can see from these numbers (which are pretty accurate by my friend's calculations...others can confirm, I hope), against everything but Armor the Medium guns are superior, whether because of raw damage or (in the case of the Flak vs Mortar tie) because of range.
I'll admit that the generally longer range of medium weapon makes them deadly in the hands of a great gunner. And with a great pilot at the wheel.
Agreed here. Difficult to use weapons are better in the hands of better players. Fact.
And in a open battlefield. And versus a below-average opponent.
Largely untrue. Open battlefields and below-average opponents make these weapons easier to use, but skilled opponents or close-quarters fighting just requires a bit more knowledge and ability with those weapons. It doesn't suddenly make them bad.
A wise decision. Carronades are at their best when you have a vertical movement advantage over your opponent - to shoot at the balloon, then to get back at the fast-descending target. For this reason, the heavy ones are only usable as a main armement on a Goldfish "playing Squid" (a task at which the Squid, with a lighter carronade, is better).
...A Goldfish is really damn good at blending balloons, boss. A touch of Chute Vent completely negates any advantage the Squid may have in vertical movement to follow the target, and the Heavy Carronade loses basically nothing over the Light Carronade for keeping an opponent pinned or shredding their armor. The greater health and armor allows you to survive more attempts to have someone force you off your target, and also allows you more leeway to actually physically pin your target to the ground. It has different strengths, but it's far from "playing Squid."
Now that's a defensive weaponnery. The Hwachas are good to impose an area of denial, but their lack of precision, loading time and relatively low concentrated damage makes them ill-suited to the finishing role. And yet they're still the best thing to mount on a Galleon, given their ease of use in a hurry, unless you have a clear enough horizon to play bang-bang with two gunners and heavy flak/Lumberjack.
To disable a ship - and to finish it, you must certainly be familiar with the heavy- then charged-clipped Gatling, IMO a much better weapon.
Gatlings are terrible at disabling ships compared to a Hwacha: they deal 77 dps to ship components, and their scatter makes it difficult to focus on a single component: it takes over 4 seconds of concentrated fire to take out a single engine. The Hwacha, meanwhile, does 118 dps to ships with a large burst radius. In that 4 seconds you can take out three engines, or all the guns on a Galleon's broadside, or all of a Junker's broadside plus an engine...and so forth. There's no comparing the two for ship disabling.
Additionally, a Heavy Clip Hwacha has incredible precision at ranges greater than a gatling's, and can also damage components near the target area. Finally, the Hwacha deals nearly x5 the Gatling's damage to a ship's hull. The only place the gatling wins is in damage to armor.
You are right - but they are not an alternative to light weapons. A medium weapon slot cannot accomodate a lighter one. And because of this, I would like having more hoice, more polyvalency out of them. Imagine how the Goldfish and Spires would be good with more choices.
This I'll grant you. A few more options for Heavy Weapons would be rather nice.
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Assuming we're talking DPS against favorable components, the most effective Heavy Gun against a given component often outdamages the most effective light gun against that component (in terms of Damage-per-Second).
Balloon: 173 (Heavy Carronade) vs. 158 (Light Carronade)
Hull: 158 (Heavy Flak) vs 158 (Mortar)
Guns/Engines: 232 (Lumberjack Heavy Mortar) vs 112 (Mercury Field Gun)
Armor: 48 (Heavy Carronade) vs 60 (Gatling)
As you can see from these numbers (which are pretty accurate by my friend's calculations...others can confirm, I hope), against everything but Armor the Medium guns are superior, whether because of raw damage or (in the case of the Flak vs Mortar tie) because of range.
Assuming these numbers are right (I don't contest them), the Medium weapons are even worse than I thought. Because, you see, unless a gunner has an accuracy around 80% (like everybody on this board, I am sure), most people miss a few shots. Well, a few missed shot on a typical light gun isn't too bad - the rate of fire, large magazine or quicker reload can compensate for that. You can even use the first few shots as tracers.
Largely untrue. Open battlefields and below-average opponents make these weapons easier to use, but skilled opponents or close-quarters fighting just requires a bit more knowledge and ability with those weapons. It doesn't suddenly make them bad.
Largely, but not totally. The lumberjack and heavy flak only arm after some distance (like the Field gun), and if they're mounted on a Spire or Galleon, your adversary chooses the range most of the time.
...A Goldfish is really damn good at blending balloons, boss. A touch of Chute Vent completely negates any advantage the Squid may have in vertical movement to follow the target, and the Heavy Carronade loses basically nothing over the Light Carronade for keeping an opponent pinned or shredding their armor. The greater health and armor allows you to survive more attempts to have someone force you off your target, and also allows you more leeway to actually physically pin your target to the ground. It has different strengths, but it's far from "playing Squid."
Tools are another matter - the Squid pilot can pack a Chute Vent too. I prefer the light carronade to the heavier version, even if it one of the less awkward medium to use; More magazine capacity, more angle, for about the same damage on balloon - it only is less effective against the decks.
Gatlings are terrible at disabling ships compared to a Hwacha: they deal 77 dps to ship components, and their scatter makes it difficult to focus on a single component: it takes over 4 seconds of concentrated fire to take out a single engine. The Hwacha, meanwhile, does 118 dps to ships with a large burst radius. In that 4 seconds you can take out three engines, or all the guns on a Galleon's broadside, or all of a Junker's broadside plus an engine...and so forth. There's no comparing the two for ship disabling.
A Gatling with heavies at short range is a scalpel; I have successfully disarmed all the guns on all types of ship, many times. It is fast, precise, has a large clip and is especially good at busting guns. Engines? I don't know that much, since when a ship's guns are disabled I switch to charged and finish the hull.
When firing a Whacha, even slowly, you do not "cut" like with the heavy-clipped gat; you "spray", even with the heavies, being about as precise as a katana in surgery. And you better do it right the first time, because the reload... man, the reload... Maybe they're better against engines though, even if that, once again, makes them of any use as long as you can direct your ship to the said engines - which again largely excludes 2 out of the three ships who can mount one.
Additionally, a Heavy Clip Hwacha has incredible precision at ranges greater than a gatling's, and can also damage components near the target area. Finally, the Hwacha deals nearly x5 the Gatling's damage to a ship's hull. The only place the gatling wins is in damage to armor.
And at components, too. And besides, a ship without armor is a ship on its way to a shortened career, as often light guns are paired. The Hwachas don't do that much damage; their edge is, they do that damage pretty much everywhere; If your opponent has even an average engineer, he can undo all damage to the hull 'n' balloon while the gunners fix their guns and - oops, you've got to reload. If the oppo is armed with a gat in range, then you'd better get off the gun and prepare yourself to repair. I have faced many Hwachas with my ol' gats, and most of the time I fire before they do, silencing them. Long range? Bah! An average pilot can see the very visible, dispersed shots coming and somehow negate like half of them, the rest being easily repaired while he's positionning the ship by the time you reload, as two third of the ship that mount these guns are slowpokes.
This I'll grant you. A few more options for Heavy Weapons would be rather nice.
Ah. I knew we would agree on something, sooner or later. ;-)
Thanks for your input, bud.
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See? You dont take the argument of experienced players.
The medium guns are mostly sniper weapons. There is nth comparing with that range and dmg. If you ever see what a hflak can do with a unarmored hull u see how good it is.
A lumberjack takes balloons for breakfasts.
Sure u need good gunners on them. Thats why u barely see them. Or at least used to their real potential.
A good hwacha gunner will take out ur whole ship in one volley.
A hcarro will twoshot ur balloon and kill ur hull rly fast if u hit right with it.
But as u will not take our arguments go ahead and do whatever u want.
Or watch some competetive matches and see what good players can do with heavy guns.
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Assuming these numbers are right (I don't contest them), the Medium weapons are even worse than I thought. Because, you see, unless a gunner has an accuracy around 80% (like everybody on this board, I am sure), most people miss a few shots. Well, a few missed shot on a typical light gun isn't too bad - the rate of fire, large magazine or quicker reload can compensate for that. You can even use the first few shots as tracers.
Shots miss occasionally, yes. But 80% accuracy is pretty easy on a Heavy Flak within, say, Gatling range. The more important issue is that medium guns take time to fire off a full clip...and a skilled pilot won't just sit and let you empty an entire clip on his ship if he has any recourse. So we can either assume that each gun is functioning under optimal conditions, or that neither is functioning under optimal conditions, in which case you might only get 50-75% of that light gun's clip actually on target (or actually on the portion of the ship you wish to damage).
In my experience though? Good gunners are reliable at putting heavy gun fire on-target. 80% isn't that far off the mark at moderate range.
Largely, but not totally. The lumberjack and heavy flak only arm after some distance (like the Field gun), and if they're mounted on a Spire or Galleon, your adversary chooses the range most of the time.
Yep. And by firing early, aiming for engines, and reversing, you can keep that distance up for quite some time, even on very tight maps like Paritan Rumble.
Tools are another matter - the Squid pilot can pack a Chute Vent too. I prefer the light carronade to the heavier version, even if it one of the less awkward medium to use; More magazine capacity, more angle, for about the same damage on balloon - it only is less effective against the decks.
You may prefer it, yes. Doesn't change the fact that both are exceedingly valid ship loadouts and tactics. The Goldfish is not "Playing Squid." It's using Balloon-pinning tactics as a Goldfish: you can do the same with a Junker if you've got half a mind to do so, or even a Mobula (although that's super risky). All of them work.
A Gatling with heavies at short range is a scalpel; I have successfully disarmed all the guns on all types of ship, many times. It is fast, precise, has a large clip and is especially good at busting guns. Engines? I don't know that much, since when a ship's guns are disabled I switch to charged and finish the hull.
So while you scalpel away I'll tear into your guns and engines with Heavy Clip on a Hwacha at a range you can't match with damn good accuracy, then disable all your components facing me with Burst at close range.
Also, that Gat tactic is alarmingly ineffective, as even with Charged rounds the Gatling has the second worst DPS against the hull in the game. By a pretty huge margin. Use it to shred armor, reload it, and shred their armor again once it's back up. It's a far more effective use of the Gat then the pitiful 13 DPS that Charged rounds do to the perma-Hull.
When firing a Whacha, even slowly, you do not "cut" like with the heavy-clipped gat; you "spray", even with the heavies, being about as precise as a katana in surgery. And you better do it right the first time, because the reload... man, the reload... Maybe they're better against engines though, even if that, once again, makes them of any use as long as you can direct your ship to the said engines - which again largely excludes 2 out of the three ships who can mount one.
The fact that within a 2-3 second window you can strip a ship of most of its guns + engines is well worth the 14 second reload time. Hwachas sow chaos and give you time to get more advantageous positions...and they do it VERY quickly. You then swing guns to bring other weapons into arc while it reloads. You're severely underestimating the power of the weapon as mid-close range disabler: nothing else really compares at that range.
And at components, too.
Beg pardon?
Hwacha DPS to components: 118 + burst to nearby components.
Gatling DPS to components: 77
The Hwacha is the clear winner here.
I have faced many Hwachas with my ol' gats, and most of the time I fire before they do, silencing them. Long range? Bah! An average pilot can see the very visible, dispersed shots coming and somehow negate like half of them, the rest being easily repaired while he's positionning the ship by the time you reload, as two third of the ship that mount these guns are slowpokes.
I would hazard a guess you are not up against decent pilots/gunners then, and they probably aren't running Heavy Clip. A well run Hwacha ship can disable your engines or guns from almost double the Gatling's maximum range, and easily have Burst rounds loaded by the time you close the distance, which gives you a firing window of a few seconds before you lose half of your ship's components.
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[...]
Balloon: 173 (Heavy Carronade) vs. 158 (Light Carronade)
Hull: 158 (Heavy Flak) vs 158 (Mortar)
Guns/Engines: 232 (Lumberjack Heavy Mortar) vs 112 (Mercury Field Gun)
Armor: 48 (Heavy Carronade) vs 60 (Gatling)
[...]
DPS with reload? Also, if you actually manage that dps with LJ against engines and guns, hats off to you. That's because the LJ AoE deals no damage at all against those and I'd love to see anybody who can reliably hit guns and engines with it.
[...]
Largely, but not totally. The lumberjack and heavy flak only arm after some distance (like the Field gun), and if they're mounted on a Spire or Galleon, your adversary chooses the range most of the time.
[...]
Field gun has no arming time.
[...]
A Gatling with heavies at short range is a scalpel; I have successfully disarmed all the guns on all types of ship, many times. It is fast, precise, has a large clip and is especially good at busting guns. Engines? I don't know that much, since when a ship's guns are disabled I switch to charged and finish the hull.
[...]
A really slow and rusty scalpel. ~12 shots for light guns and engines, ~14 for medium guns and heavy engines. +3-5 shots to get zeroed in. +3-5 shots bacause unexpected movement of your pilots hand turns off your shots. Congrats, you wasted half your heavy clip for a gun with wich you could have stripped the armor instead.
All medium guns need higher skill but also get you a higher reward, deal with it.
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See? You dont take the argument of experienced players.
What makes "u" think that?
The medium guns are mostly sniper weapons. There is nth comparing with that range and dmg. If you ever see what a hflak can do with a unarmored hull u see how good it is.
A lumberjack takes balloons for breakfasts.
Sure u need good gunners on them. Thats why u barely see them. Or at least used to their real potential.
A good hwacha gunner will take out ur whole ship in one volley.
A hcarro will twoshot ur balloon and kill ur hull rly fast if u hit right with it.
Funny, that, the sheer amount of weapons 'n' gunners who casually "one-shots" ships around here. Apart for some early game ambushes, I rarely see any ship being "one-shotted" in a fight... must be because all the 80% accuracy gunners are here instead of on the game. In fact, nearly all the "one-shot" kills I ever saw were on these boards.
Don't think that because I am no achievment farmer I have no experience with the game. That would suspiciously sounds like a challenge, sir.
But as u will not take our arguments go ahead and do whatever u want.
Or watch some competetive matches and see what good players can do with heavy guns.
They can do the very same thing they do with the light ones - destroy ennemy ships.
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DPS with reload? Also, if you actually manage that dps with LJ against engines and guns, hats off to you. That's because the LJ AoE deals no damage at all against those and I'd love to see anybody who can reliably hit guns and engines with it.
That is with reload accounted for, yes. It deals a staggering 600 damage per shot to components. That said...yeah, it's hard to hit non-balloon components.
What makes "u" think that?
Probably from your apparently dismissal of the discussion points of, to name a few, Captain Smollet and Sprayer, an incredibly experienced Captain and Gunner (respectively).
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It's 100 damage per shot to guns and engines (50 base, mod is 2) Djinn, 600 if all shots of the clip hit.
@Van Manfred, I don't need to look at your level to know you are inexperienced and don't want to learn at all. Reading your answeres here is enough.
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Well i dont think you have seen any competetive match at all. And no it is not about achievment farming. It is about experience and actual skill.
Youre only 4 4 3. So shouldnt be to long i think that u left novice matches. And a pub will never utilize longrange to its fullest.
Pub games are totally different from actual highlvl / competetive games. The thing why ppl barely use med weapons besides the hcarro are their relative high skillminimum to utilize.
Watch some paddling or gents matches and then see what good gunners can do with a medium weapon.
The reason u barely see this in normal games is the fact that not many pubs can time their shot.
Pub is mainly brawl based game. Seen any sniper galleon pilot rly park his galleon getting assisted by his ally? Probably not.
And another part is. We probably have played the game way longer than you. We might know what a gun can rly do and we might also see it doing it in several more situations.
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Shots miss occasionally, yes. But 80% accuracy is pretty easy on a Heavy Flak within, say, Gatling range. The more important issue is that medium guns take time to fire off a full clip...and a skilled pilot won't just sit and let you empty an entire clip on his ship if he has any recourse. So we can either assume that each gun is functioning under optimal conditions, or that neither is functioning under optimal conditions, in which case you might only get 50-75% of that light gun's clip actually on target (or actually on the portion of the ship you wish to damage).
In my experience though? Good gunners are reliable at putting heavy gun fire on-target. 80% isn't that far off the mark at moderate range.
A heavy flak at gatling range won't always arm. Maybe, if you've got greased or heatsinks. And, most gunners I know have less than 80% accuracy, meaning some lost shots here and there. A Hwacha is especially un-precise, even with the heavy clip and at short range, there always will be some rockets off the map - furthermore when mounted on a Galleon.
Yep. And by firing early, aiming for engines, and reversing, you can keep that distance up for quite some time, even on very tight maps like Paritan Rumble.
Why do always assume a dumb opposition? Let's make the crews equals for comparison's sake. In most normal battles, Galleon or Spires only got a few shots a long range, shots that the other ship has a good chance to dodge or soak by the time you reload. When you finished reloading, most opponent will already have chosen their range.
So while you scalpel away I'll tear into your guns and engines with Heavy Clip on a Hwacha at a range you can't match with damn good accuracy, then disable all your components facing me with Burst at close range.
You do that again. If your gun is castrated by my shatter shots, you can't do what you wrote.
The odds are, the gatling will disable the Hwacha first, except at long range, when it's superfluous, since the gat hasn't the reach, it can't fire anyway. When it can, the fact that it acts as a tracer, has a large clip, reloads in less than 3rd the time the Hwacha does and also has a superior firing angle, makes that it trumps the Hwachas in a disarm duel.
Also, that Gat tactic is alarmingly ineffective, as even with Charged rounds the Gatling has the second worst DPS against the hull in the game. By a pretty huge margin. Use it to shred armor, reload it, and shred their armor again once it's back up. It's a far more effective use of the Gat then the pitiful 13 DPS that Charged rounds do to the perma-Hull.
Except for the Medium-slot ships and the Squid, all the other ships have at least two overlapping light guns, like I said in my post. I never said that gats alone can do it all - but the fact that they put off the hull make that ship damn fragile to about any other light gun that may overlap it.
The fact that within a 2-3 second window you can strip a ship of most of its guns + engines is well worth the 14 second reload time. Hwachas sow chaos and give you time to get more advantageous positions...and they do it VERY quickly. You then swing guns to bring other weapons into arc while it reloads. You're severely underestimating the power of the weapon as mid-close range disabler: nothing else really compares at that range.
Like I've wrote, the Hwacha's reload time is long enough that I can repair any weapon that it may have damaged during its course, even from scratch. If the engineer's at the hull, and on the balloon, you just won't kill that ship with a single hwacha. It's impossible, unless your target isn't crewed.
Beg pardon?
Hwacha DPS to components: 232 + burst to nearby components.
Gatling DPS to components: 77
The Hwacha is the clear winner here.
:D
Nah, sorry, I contest that. Either your numbers are wrong, or you assume that every missile you fire with the Hwacha will hit the same component at the same time. Won't happen.
I would hazard a guess you are not up against decent pilots/gunners then, and they probably aren't running Heavy Clip. A well run Hwacha ship can disable your engines or guns from almost double the Gatling's maximum range, and easily have Burst rounds loaded by the time you close the distance, which gives you a firing window of a few seconds before you lose half of your ship's components.
The Hwacha's loading time is long enough for all that damage to be gone, even with an average crew, when it's time to fire it again. And if the Hwacha's got better range, the Gat has more firing angle. And all the other advantages, except as what the Hwacha really is; Enforcing an area of denial.
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It's 100 damage per shot to guns and engines (50 base, mod is 2) Djinn, 600 if all shots of the clip hit.
Derp. You're entirely correct. I had an error in that box of my table. Thanks.
Nah, sorry, I contest that. Either your numbers are wrong, or you assume that every missile you fire with the Hwacha will hit the same component at the same time. Won't happen.
You were correct: I editted my post. The correct number is 118.
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Well i dont think you have seen any competetive match at all. And no it is not about achievment farming. It is about experience and actual skill.
Youre only 4 4 3. So shouldnt be to long i think that u left novice matches. And a pub will never utilize longrange to its fullest.
Pub games are totally different from actual highlvl / competetive games. The thing why ppl barely use med weapons besides the hcarro are their relative high skillminimum to utilize.
Watch some paddling or gents matches and then see what good gunners can do with a medium weapon.
The reason u barely see this in normal games is the fact that not many pubs can time their shot.
Pub is mainly brawl based game. Seen any sniper galleon pilot rly park his galleon getting assisted by his ally? Probably not.
And another part is. We probably have played the game way longer than you. We might know what a gun can rly do and we might also see it doing it in several more situations.
I have the game since it is out, and I got "Guns of Icarus" (whitout the "online") before that. I hate achievement farmers because they are often tyrannical, egoistical or just positively nefarious to a good game. I played enough to see that many of these "achievers" are in fact hardly competent folks who just happen to jump in with the right crew. And if you have any experience you'll know it too.
There is no achievement farmer here that I will recognized as more "experienced" than me, unless he gives me flight hours, and many of these numbers that you cannot see on other's profile, and I'll tell you if you are either experienced or an achievement farmer, no offense. It's useless to try and impress me with achievements. Maybe when I started up the game, but not now.
I have played what you described as a "high-level" game, and got tired real quick of being taken for a noob because I don't chase acheivements (they really come naturally in my case). When they do take me on their ship, they often end up adding me to their Friend bank, when I'm not ending up directing the crew over the mike. But even in these game I have never seen as much casual "one-shots" as I saw on these board. The playing level must be much more higher on forums, I gather...
@The Djinn; If I was correct, you are, in return, quite elegant in admitting it. Thank you, sir.
@Sprayer; Yes, looks like I was wrong; The Field Gun has no arming time.
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I have the game since it is out, and I got "Guns of Icarus" (whitout the "online") before that. I hate achievement farmers because they are often tyrannical, egoistical or just positively nefarious to a good game. I played enough to see that many of these "achievers" are in fact hardly competent folks who just happen to jump in with the right crew. And if you have any experience you'll know it too.
There is no achievement farmer here that I will recognized as more "experienced" than me, unless he gives me flight hours, and many of these numbers that you cannot see on other's profile, and I'll tell you if you are either experienced or an achievement farmer, no offense. It's useless to try and impress me with achievements. Maybe when I started up the game, but not now.
That's a rather blanket generalization though. I've been known to have my crew take something sub-optimal if they're up for it because I've wanted some silly achievement (like "harpoon 30 ships"), but that doesn't mean I'm bad for the game or that I'm a bad captain: point of fact, we won one of those harpoon matches because I could out-pilot the enemy captains such that our Harpoon/Flamer Mobula was always out of their gun arcs.
TL:DR -- Going for the occasional achievement or even flying a loadout specifically for an achievement doesn't mean you're inexperienced or bad. Being bad and/or inexperienced is the only real indicator of being bad or inexperienced. :P
I have played what you described as a "high-level" game, and got tired real quick of being taken for a noob because I don't chase acheivements (they really come naturally in my case). When they do take me on their ship, they often end up adding me to their Friend bank, when I'm not ending up directing the crew over the mike. But even in these game I have never seen as much casual "one-shots" as I saw on these board. The playing level must be much more higher on forums, I gather...
Ramming, Lochnager Flak, Buffed + Charged Flak, and enough rapid Greased Mortars can effectively 1-shot (defined as, say, 5 seconds or less) an enemy ship. I personally have seen this happen numerous times, and done it myself numerous times. Your mileage may, of course, vary.
@The Djinn; If I was correct, you are, in return, quite elegant in admitting it. Thank you, sir.
Any time, my good man. I like to think that while we all badger each other, the GoI community is a decent one. Gentlemen argue with each other all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to act like savages while we're at it. :)
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This is too much theory crafting.
I recommend you watch the paddling (or gents) in action. There was an absolutely gorgeous one shot kill in the gents vs paddling cogs season 2 finale which unfortunately is no longer on twitch (not sure if there's another copy of it somewhere). Recent anvalan conflicts recorded here http://www.youtube.com/user/CommunityeSports also demonstrate well the power of heavy weaponry.
1190 hours of time in GOI over 4275 matches btw
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That's a rather blanket generalization though. I've been known to have my crew take something sub-optimal if they're up for it because I've wanted some silly achievement (like "harpoon 30 ships"), but that doesn't mean I'm bad for the game or that I'm a bad captain: point of fact, we won one of those harpoon matches because I could out-pilot the enemy captains such that our Harpoon/Flamer Mobula was always out of their gun arcs.
Oh, I don't want to generalize, I know that there are those players who decidedly are as good as they appear - and probably even better than me! Bit I don't consider their ranks to be more than a supposition that they are. As I have wrote, show me flight hours and then I'll bow down.
I have done one single game to earn achievements; being a pilot then, I let achievement greed dictate my ship, the guns that were on it and what I should do to earn them (like, firing a gun or repairing for a pilot). Turns out it was the worst game in my career. We got blown out of the skies, barely registering a kill. I personnally did apologies to my teammates of fortunes for the sabotage I did - and that gave me something like 4 achievements. They tasted sour to me.
Ramming, Lochnager Flak, Buffed + Charged Flak, and enough rapid Greased Mortars can effectively 1-shot (defined as, say, 5 seconds or less) an enemy ship. I personally have seen this happen numerous times, and done it myself numerous times. Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Are thet really one-shots (from a single gun, on a full-health ship) or finishing shots, or multi-fire ambushes?
Any time, my good man. I like to think that while we all badger each other, the GoI community is a decent one. Gentlemen argue with each other all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to act like savages while we're at it. :)
Sir, consider yourself saluted.
@Captain Smollett - Okay; You are a vet. :o
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I have done one single game to earn achievements; being a pilot then, I let achievement greed dictate my ship, the guns that were on it and what I should do to earn them (like, firing a gun or repairing for a pilot). Turns out it was the worst game in my career. We got blown out of the skies, barely registering a kill. I personnally did apologies to my teammates of fortunes for the sabotage I did - and that gave me something like 4 achievements. They tasted sour to me.
Seems likely, yes. Hence why you should always run it by your crew first, and still make the best decisions possible with whatever loadout you have. Never purely go for the achievement.
Are thet really one-shots (from a single gun, on a full-health ship) or finishing shots, or multi-fire ambushes?
The correct ram can indeed (I believe) one-shot a ship, although usually you have to pin them against a building. For the rest...one-shotting usually refers to 100%-0%ing the enemy's Perma-Hull, rather than bursting them instantly from full armor. I'm confident that no weapon can 100-0 a ship with full armor, but the Lochnager Heavy Flak can indeed 1-shot a ship's perma-hull once the armor is breached (on anything but a Goldfish or Galleon, I believe). I also think the Buffed + Charged Heavy Flak can one-shot the Junker, Spire, and Mobula, but I haven't actually checked my numbers on that one.
Edit: Checked my numbers.
Lochnager Heavy Flak: 1039 damage per shot. Destroys any ship that isn't the Goldfish or Galleon. When buffed, it should one-shot any non-Galleon ship in the game.
Charged Heavy Flak: 600 damage to the hull. Destroys the Junker and Mobula in one shot. When buffed, it should also kill the Pyramidion.
Sir, consider yourself saluted.
Well thank you very much!
@Captain Smollett - Okay; You are a vet. :o
Yes he is. Smollet knows his ways around every role pretty damn well, I'd assume (I don't recall flying with him personally yet).
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One shot kill into a ship without armor.
Unfortunately the clip I'd like to show you was particularly great, the gents were focusing my ship and seemingly had the upper hand in the engagement. They had broken my balloon and armor but we had managed to break one ships armor right as I lost gun arcs. Just as I was about to be killed, my ally put in a shot across the map and the gent ship evaporated. The other gent ship lost arc on me and my ally proceeded to kill the said ship at range from the galleon while I was picking myself off of the ground.
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One shot kill into a ship without armor.
Unfortunately the clip I'd like to show you was particularly great, the gents were focusing my ship and seemingly had the upper hand in the engagement. They had broken my balloon and armor but we had managed to break one ships armor right as I lost gun arcs. Just as I was about to be killed, my ally put in a shot across the map and the gent ship evaporated. The other gent ship lost arc on me and my ally proceeded to kill the said ship at range from the galleon while I was picking myself off of the ground.
Haha, that was one impressive match to watch for sure, surely a good display of the Flak's power to turn around a situation. Thing is and what I think the OP is trying to get to:
It's not realy about the current Heavy guns being underpowered, it's about the fact that the half of the current Heavy gun choices are focused on sniping, one is a high coordination disabler to get anything out of its tremendous power (Hwacha) and the other is the only brawling Heavy gun, which isn't ALL that massive at it either and can still be easily taken out at range, but it all depents.
AKA, as the title of the thread states, Heavy guns have a distusting lack of variety right now, especially on the mid and close range department, we need more unique Heavy guns like the Hwacha and the Lumberjack and more brawling Heavy guns as well.
Also, to all 'vets' here, the OP is mostly talking about pubs, which is what most of the game revolves around and it's not a lie that most heavy guns are pretty much useless in them if the pilots have a clue, mostly because the gunners might not be top-notch, but hey, that's the true game after all, for the pubs, variety in Heavy guns is even worse than it is for the experienced players, they have too many requirements that a pubbie will probably won't be able to cover (like very good coordination, ally protection, experienced gunnery crew, etc)
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@Echoez; Yeah, that indeed sums it up rather well. Better, in fact, than I did, as I got carried away on interesting side-orders.
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AKA, as the title of the thread states, Heavy guns have a distusting lack of variety right now, especially on the mid and close range department, we need more unique Heavy guns like the Hwacha and the Lumberjack and more brawling Heavy guns as well.
So let's brainstorm a bit. We've got a tech level that implies industrial age technology, but no real innovations in electricity, etc. Which means we're largely limited to projectile weapons, although I could see a laser-like flamethrower built out of mirror arrays and some sort of steampunk storage cell. We've also got naming conventions that are very Greek in theme. So maybe something like...
Hemera Array
Herema, daughter of Erebos and Nyx, grants her name and her brilliant daylight to this deadly weapon. Finely polished mirrors gather sunlight, storing it in the inner workings of the weapon until it unleashed in a narrow beam of destructions.
The Hemera Array is designed to fill the roll of a medium-range Heavy fire weapon. It features a precision beam that can be traced over an enemy ship, dealing damage and setting fires wherever it hits. Perhaps it has some sort of damage amplification mechanic, where continuous fire on a given element increases the base damage the beam deals. It's a bit of a stretch with our current tech levels though, and figuring out exactly what role it is supposed to fill seems like something that should be done: currently it's a mid-range firestarter, but that's basically mid-range disabling, which the Hwacha already does. Thoughts?
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Other names that came to mind were the Hurricane Repeating Rifle (a medium-long range armor shredder that's the bigger, slower cousin of the Whirlwind) and the Pompeii Heavy Cannon/Hephaestus Heavy Cannon, which would be a mid-close range AoE damager. My thoughts on the Heavy Cannon included possible impact damage and physical ship displacement, as if your target was actually struck by a very heavy and very solid projectile. It would give it a role of medium-close range ship displacement, allowing you to throw off enemy gun arcs at the expense of having another, more damaging gun.
Thoughts? Concerns? Other ideas?
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Definately sold on the cannons Djinn, it's something I've been wondering about, like, it's a ship game without cannon balls, it just struck me as very odd, definately something I'd love to see.
Also this game is pretty much WWI-WWII era, mostly dieselpunk if I may, the tanks in Paritus display a higher tech level than a regular WWI setting, especially considering what real WWI tanks looked like. I'd guess Tesla Tech would be a very good start for a mid range fire based weapon ( electricity -> heat -> fire ) that could probably use a cooling mechanic instead of a magazine, possibly with a penalty incurred to the gun if you over heat it, like taking damage overtime, which would create some awesome risk/reward posibilities! (for example, keep the gun overheating and do some extra damage and possibly finish the job or let it cool and have more for later with a healthier gun?) Gun could also not do much damage or have a high ingnition chance, but could have a chance to kick people off guns for example (say a small chance so it doesn't become too much of an issue, but that's something for a balance thread)
I've had an idea of possibly chaining the electricity on multiple components if they are close enough, meh, dunno.
We could have a missile based artillery gun pumped up with napalm (since we are going on the fire based theme) that could have an ability to instantly overheat any gun it hit directly (not with the AoE, but on top of the regular fire chances), missiles would have to travel at a reasonable speed of course, if it's single shot it should be perfectly accurate of course, if multi-warhead, have some slight spread, but still limited ammo mag, could deal a bit of fire and a bit explosive, but nothing TOO much on the explosive part, fire damage should be high though.
When it comes to medium guns having piercing, I'm much in favor of auto-cannons and not machine-guns, so we can use projectiles and have a considerable skill floor for them to be used as to not to be too easy. Pom-Pom cannons could fit that role easily while lookin' good as well.
Liking the Light beam gun as well, I think Muse already has a model designed for such a gun.