Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Cpt. Yami on March 09, 2013, 01:12:08 pm
-
Wasn't sure if this topic was gonna come back, so I put it up meself. Just add anything you would want to see in Adventure Mode here.
WARNING: THIS TOPIC WILL PROBABLY NOT BE READ BY MUSE STAFF, SO DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP!
-
Wasn't sure if this topic was gonna come back, so I put it up meself. Just add anything you would want to see in Adventure Mode here.
WARNING: THIS TOPIC WILL PROBABLY NOT BE READ BY MUSE STAFF, SO DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP!
I would definitely like the Idea to form up large groups and continue the team base stuff that the current system is building on
Also... Muse most certainly reads these postings (but I'll let them tell you that :P)
-
WARNING: THIS TOPIC WILL PROBABLY NOT BE READ BY MUSE STAFF, SO DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP!
I guess you don't know Muse very well. They're really good at reading the community's opinions and posting in the forums. I can guarantee you that they'll read this thread.
-
*waves* hi guys!
-
Multiplayer PvE missions
Single player PvE missions
Persistent World multi-/single player PvE environment (I can dream.. ..)
-
Settlement building. There was one suggestion like this in old forums, and it would be nice to be able to build outposts in adventure mode, which in turn can be expanded with buildings that would allow for upgrades and better resource gathering. Would also give players some sort of endgame objective to work towards other than hoarding their loot and booty simply because you have nothing to spend it on.
EDIT: Also would be especially cool if the player factions are still on the table. With fortifications guarding their territories which can be attacked, occupied or razed for resources. Would add depth to the whole player faction political system
-
"an expansive world map of trade routes and dynamic towns, and an economic system with resource production, commerce, and
crafting"
*waves* hi guys!
Don't believe him, he's actually not there
-
Don't believe him, he's actually not there
merely an illusion of hope for you guys :P but seriously, enough muse folks lurk through these boards that i'm sure there isn't a single topic that hasn't been read through at least once. with that said, carry on with the ideas! from time to time you guys hit marks that get us talking. ( regardless of if its a good idea or just plain crazy)
-
I don't know if there already is a solution for this, but thinking about the adventure mode, I fear that there will be one of the following problems:
- The captain is flying on a trading route and the Crew is just hanging around and waiting for someone to attack.
- The captain is flying on a trading route and the ship gets attacked every single moment.
Any thoughts about that? I really don't want to "trade" if a huge fleet of Ships attacking me anytime I leave a town...
Another thing I was thinking about is running around in the towns. Will you implement towns like in Space games (e.g. Freelancer or the X-games) where you just click through a few Menus to start a quest, buy things and so on? Or will there be a Map you can explore with your character?
Finally, according to the question above, I would love to see some kind of cantinas or bars. A few Minigames to kill the Time with other Character and a place to wait for a Captain who needs to hire a crew...
-
Guys, we need the Burning Skies Saloon as a location. DO IT.
-
Another point to talk about: I guess there will be money in the adventure mode? Otherwise trading wouldn't make much sense...
But what can I do with money? Do I have to pay my crew? Or my ships fuel and "upkeep"? Will there be different parts to buy (maybe better engines and so on)?
-
Some sort of hub world would be cool- may it be a tavern area to walk in, a port, or a large ship.
Customization of ships beyond simply picking guns would be awesome, too, i.e. earning different types of system properties, like stronger balloon with slower up/down movement.
If the adventure mode was something like the Rebels vs the Loyalists, that could carry over into weapon types and teams to push along a plot, unlike something like Unreal Tournament, which had teams, but didn't impact the story at all due to its nature of 'kill things for 5 minutes'.
A.i. pilots would be nice, too, so each mission wasn't simply -fly here and let the AI do the work for you-, or so you don't have to triple up duties, anyway.
Adventure rewards could give prizes, or in-game currency for extraneous ship parts, decals, cosmetics or even buying smarter-A.I. crewmen for further missions(training or something). The cosmetics and money could carry over to online... but it doesn't matter too much.
If the adventure mode had specific missions and not simply Deathmatch after KotH after Team Deathmatch, each one could have specific conditions or challenges involved, like no spyglass use, less crew, permanent half-power systems, don't get marked by spyglasses by hiding in cloud cover to reach a target, enemies have extra resistance to damage types and specific weak points, etc etc etc.
If anything, I'd just like if the adventure mode was challenging enough to make me feel good about overcoming its obstacles- not simply going through the motions to win prizes. With a game like this, its adventure mode could act like a great way to challenge veterans and train new recruits new tips and skills.
-
I like money. Earning pay based on my current rank as an Engineer is nice. Being able to write/view feedback from my last few jobs is nice too.
AI ships/factions that would need escorted/defended would probably be fun - opposing players could receive missions requiring them to destroy the same ships other players have been hired to protect.
====
I think walking around in a full 3D environment might be.....a little much.....considering the scope of the current game (I mean, if Muse can pull it off, I'd certainly be willing to pay them for it).
I think the notion of "menu-based" towns like in Freelancer wouldn't be overly-horrible. If towns, or rather, establishments/gathering spots in towns are treated as "rooms" on a server (like the current matchup menu), I could imagine picking one that has a Wanted Ad posted out front for crew members & then seeing a 3D rendering of the inside of a bar where my personalised character is sitting & animated while I navigate the chat box & menus to sign up for a job (camera could pan across the room and show other players sitting & chatting).
If towns would in fact be menu-based, I'd imagine it'd be a whole lot easier for players to construct their own bases & outposts, heck, maybe establish a town & leader if there were resources nearby - Muse wouldn't have to worry about all of the 3D assets the game would need to be rendering.
====
I think my #1 want for Adventure Mode is a chance to show off my own personal character & ship - the current game is already doing a great job as it is with having exciting air combat.
My second greatest want would simply have to be that I want a better sense of the game's world. What's the story behind the different locations? What's moving events forward? Why do I care about these things, and how do they relate to my character's own personal situation.
Right now, as soon as matches end, everyone pretty much becomes strangers again. I'd love to have a way to establish a more permanent ship/crew arrangement, or even a whole shipping/trading company.
Please steal EVE's economy/market system.
-
Ahem....
Cloud whales.
-
Ahem....
Cloud whales.
Ofcourse there will have to be cloud whales. What else do they have to eat instead?
...Mostly because nearly all of it is desert, which leave agricultural pursuits lacking in the ability to produce enough sustenance..
-
All these ambitious ideas being tossed around is fine and all, but what's the actual scope Muse is aiming for? Are we talking about simple co-op humans versus AI planes matches, a singleplayer/co-op campaign, persistent instanced MMO? How much is this going to detract from the current multiplayer, is this going to be considered the new focus or simply a bonus for those that get tired of 0-5 losses?
-
I'd like to have a big "mechanics" flying city where my own house is located. Some sort of housing where I can dock my ships.
I'd like to have more ships variety that can be only find in the adventure mode like : personal airplane, personal small balloon with one gun, trade ships, etc
I want the same balance as the multiplayer. Adapt the environment to the actual ships, not the opposite.
I'd like huge travels to do and towns I can visit here and there, a big fantastic world that I can visit in co-op.
Well that for a start would be nice enough to keeps me happy for a long time.
-
All these ambitious ideas being tossed around is fine and all, but what's the actual scope Muse is aiming for? Are we talking about simple co-op humans versus AI planes matches, a singleplayer/co-op campaign, persistent instanced MMO? How much is this going to detract from the current multiplayer, is this going to be considered the new focus or simply a bonus for those that get tired of 0-5 losses?
That's exactly why I wonder if the Freelancer gameplay model wouldn't be the best way to work it - the whole game was pretty much played from your ship in vast open areas (space) - everything else was some combo of a static camera and a nice menu.
Every time I look at the Kickstarter page, I realise Muse must seriously have a budget to keep in consideration. There's no reason you cant have simple, yet deep & enriching gameplay features so long as you approach things in an inventive & thoughtful manner. I mean, the money ArenaNet must have blown to get voice acting added everywhere must have been insane, yet players seem perfectly content to pick up books in Elder Scrolls and read them silently too.
We all obviously wouldn't be here if we didn't think GoIO was special. So long as Muse keeps focusing on the Art, World, and Ships (~Steeeeampuuunk~), whatever they come up with can only add to the current game we are all enjoying.
-
Classical, Industrial revolution ambient music in the background that plays with the time of day cycle and environment.
-
I am playing Eve Online and I think that this game is (despite all it's problems and drama) by far best MMO out there so I could write long about persistent single sharded universe, player-driven economy and so on, but I suppose that CCP Games had far more resources in the beggining than Muse has now.
Still I think that territory to fight over, all items crafted by players and all ships and equipment lost if destroyed is within Muse reach. Also some Sims like features like bars to socialize or even configurable player houses would be cool. Space for player created content and emergent gameplay would be awesome!
(By the way: Do Muse published any wall of text for what Adventure Mode will be like? I would appreciate if anybody could PM me any link.)
-
I am playing Eve Online and I think that this game is (despite all it's problems and drama) by far best MMO out there so I could write long about persistent single sharded universe, player-driven economy and so on, but I suppose that CCP Games had far more resources in the beggining than Muse has now.
Still I think that territory to fight over, all items crafted by players and all ships and equipment lost if destroyed is within Muse reach. Also some Sims like features like bars to socialize or even configurable player houses would be cool. Space for player created content and emergent gameplay would be awesome!
(By the way: Do Muse published any wall of text for what Adventure Mode will be like? I would appreciate if anybody could PM me any link.)
They've been mostly vague about Adventure Mode, the only details they've given so far are in the FAQ under Differences between Skirmish and Adventure Mode.
http://gunsoficarus.com/faq/
-
I would like to see NPC ground targets, or ships on the ocean to harass. One of the great things about being a floating weapons platform is lording over things that are not floating weapons platforms.
I don't know what Muse's scope is, but I heard something about an inter township commerce system. Perhaps we will get some sort of convoy escort or blockade runner game type. I am pretty happy with the PvP right now.
-
I would like to see NPC ground targets, or ships on the ocean to harass. One of the great things about being a floating weapons platform is lording over things that are not floating weapons platforms.
I don't know what Muse's scope is, but I heard something about an inter township commerce system. Perhaps we will get some sort of convoy escort or blockade runner game type. I am pretty happy with the PvP right now.
From what I can gather from reading the faq is that towns/cities produce natural resources and/or manufactured goods which can be carried to other towns/cities by players for non- specified either ingame currency or other goods. But these towns/cities need to be provisioned in order to function/survive. That's where players come in, trading goods between different towns/cities. So yes, those features may or may not be in muse's overall design.
-
You'll hear more about Adventure Mode very soon... like next week soon... as well as ways you can contribute to this huge project.
A lot of the things you've mentioned are indeed planned to be in Adventure in some way or another. One thing I'll say is that we're unwilling to call it a full MMO because that gives off the wrong impression (goddamn it WoW). Airship combat will still be the crux of interaction here but every time you jump onto a ship, you will be affecting the world in some way or another. Persistent, yes. Completely open-world, impossible for our team size.
That's all I'll say for now :) Get pumped.
-
From what I can gather from reading the faq is that towns/cities produce natural resources and/or manufactured goods which can be carried to other towns/cities by players for non- specified either ingame currency or other goods. But these towns/cities need to be provisioned in order to function/survive. That's where players come in, trading goods between different towns/cities. So yes, those features may or may not be in muse's overall design.
Pretty much their original idea. A world of dynamic towns, trade routes and a simple economic system, in which the players need to transport goods between the towns. Then maybe someone goes pirate and attacks those ships. That would lead to a few merchants joining together in trading caravans, or maybe hiring defensive mercenaries. Maybe the increased number of caravans would lead to an organized form of piracy, taking on bigger numbers. Or maybe a faction issues a trade blockade in a certain area. And so on...
EDIT: uh, ninja posted.
-
You'll hear more about Adventure Mode very soon... like next week soon... as well as ways you can contribute to this huge project.
A lot of the things you've mentioned are indeed planned to be in Adventure in some way or another. One thing I'll say is that we're unwilling to call it a full MMO because that gives off the wrong impression (goddamn it WoW). Airship combat will still be the crux of interaction here but every time you jump onto a ship, you will be affecting the world in some way or another. Persistent, yes. Completely open-world, impossible for our team size.
That's all I'll say for now :) Get pumped.
It's hard to get pumped knowing it won't be completely openworld, but I'll try :'(
I do understand however that you people can't work miracles. If however it would appear to lack funds to implement superawesome features, feel free to start another kickstarter. I'm sure most people active here would pitch in to get more adventure mode.
-
Huh? Support? Going to inventarize my treasury then :D
-
You'll hear more about Adventure Mode very soon... like next week soon... as well as ways you can contribute to this huge project.
A lot of the things you've mentioned are indeed planned to be in Adventure in some way or another. One thing I'll say is that we're unwilling to call it a full MMO because that gives off the wrong impression (goddamn it WoW). Airship combat will still be the crux of interaction here but every time you jump onto a ship, you will be affecting the world in some way or another. Persistent, yes. Completely open-world, impossible for our team size.
That's all I'll say for now :) Get pumped.
I hope there's a kickstarter version of the game so we can help with our wallet and push the mode :D
-
It's hard to get pumped knowing it won't be completely openworld, but I'll try :'(
I do understand however that you people can't work miracles. If however it would appear to lack funds to implement superawesome features, feel free to start another kickstarter. I'm sure most people active here would pitch in to get more adventure mode.
Sorry to hear you feel that way. If you want true open world, we'll need to hire many many many many more artists. The look of our game competes on the AAA level, just that alone excludes us from doing open world because the amount of time required to create all the assets for each biome we want and then set dress everything. It's a lot of work and a lot of time. We're already trying to smart and save time by building the proper tools to help us along the way with what we have envisioned. And the fact that we're flying in airships going at 50m/second (per SECOND)... that's a lot of ground to cover :P
HOWEVER. I think this will be more interesting than any 'open' world game because the systems we're designing will keep you engaged and passionate about each one of your actions.
There is freedom in constraint.
-
Have you guys ever played "Realm of the Mad God" ? It is an Open world MMO made out of 16x16 sprites. It is a brilliant exercise in minimalist graphics and game play. I don't think Muse should follow their lead, but it demonstrates what can be accomplished by a small team with a bit on ingenuity.
-
As long as there is multiplayer within the adventure mode I'll be happy.. I wouldn't want the game to break the community because you were off playing on your own.
I was a keen GW player from quite early in the game.. and it lost most of it's appeal round about the time they introduced henchmen (that was the start of the decline). Whilst it did remove the waiting around for a party heading in the right direction, it killed the random comradeship that had come from having to party up with the best players available. It would be an interesting dynamic for GOIO if AI crews only became available in adventure mode if the online/lobby population dropped below a set threshold, ie. if there are enough players online they have to play together.
-
Have you guys ever played "Realm of the Mad God" ? It is an Open world MMO made out of 16x16 sprites. It is a brilliant exercise in minimalist graphics and game play. I don't think Muse should follow their lead, but it demonstrates what can be accomplished by a small team with a bit on ingenuity.
I've seen games like this, I may know the one you're talking about. From sprites you can easily go open world because asset generation is relatively simple. Once you get into 3D land... oh boy.
As long as there is multiplayer within the adventure mode I'll be happy.. I wouldn't want the game to break the community because you were off playing on your own.
Adventure Mode is building upon what you already know exists in Skirmish Mode. It will still be based on forming crews and kicking butt in the sky.
I was a keen GW player from quite early in the game.. and it lost most of it's appeal round about the time they introduced henchmen (that was the start of the decline). Whilst it did remove the waiting around for a party heading in the right direction, it killed the random comradeship that had come from having to party up with the best players available. It would be an interesting dynamic for GOIO if AI crews only became available in adventure mode if the online/lobby population dropped below a set threshold, ie. if there are enough players online they have to play together.
This is something we've talked about... can you hire AI crew? I'm not super familiar with the new stuff in GW but I'm assuming getting henchman costs money... and expensive for useful ones?
I think it's valid to try and play alone at the larger world level of play. For Skirmish Mode, I want to discourage it. But at Adventure... it's hard not too. I have a lot of fun playing on my own in these big worlds. Playing alone, together.
-
When I look at an "open" world game I generally imagine a very few games that actually meet this. Star Wars Galaxy, EVE, Asherons Call are my first picks. These worlds, are huge. But utterly devoid of activity in the way that a traditional MMO is. This is not to say there isnt content, there is plenty, rocks to mine, rats to kill, people to pirate, empires to mantain. In SWG we had entire worlds to explore, sites that maybe only an artist and a few people ever got to appreciate because it was so incredibly remote.
The majority of MMO's are theme or mission driven, the openess of the world is generally just a caged staging area cluttered with art assets to facilitate the feel of the biome. The gameplay is still very much driven by it's combat system.
Guns of Icarus isnt different in this respect, combat and team work make up the core of the game play. Adding trade lanes essentially just adds travel time to a skirmish map, thats a lot of assets to add, and a lot of time doing nothing. I'd be more interested in a static map with a series of zones where we have to battle are way through, not unlike traveling around on older map systems in traditional RPG games.
A good example is Fallout 1 and 2. Large map area to explore, but broken up into a series of different random event zones outside of cities. These zones purpose was to facilitate a staging ground for the eventual combat, or dialouge that would follow allowing the world to have some extra content outside of the cities.
I could see a series of content missions being built up like this. Good examples would be random events popping up on the map for players to join, like "Anvala under siege by pirates!" so you'd join the map with a series of other players fighting it out over the skies of Anvala. Scores would be kept, depending on which side won would alter the economy.
Possibly putting the city state into the hands of another governing force, making it so trade items need to come from other locations.
-
This is something we've talked about... can you hire AI crew? I'm not super familiar with the new stuff in GW but I'm assuming getting henchman costs money... and expensive for useful ones?
This is going back to GW rather than GW2.. and it must be five years (at least) since the henchmen introduction. From memory there wasn't a hiring fee, but they did dilute-the-loot.
Missions I'm looking forward to in adnevture mode are:
- escort/ambush (one or more ships escorting a VIP/cargo across a big map whilst others are charged with intercepting it)
- blockade running (sneak'n'dash through patrolled territory)
I'm hoping for at least one mission that makes a prolonged emphasis on piloting. A bit like Canyons but longer, twistier and generally nastier. With only an incomplete map available to the Pilot, and occasional dead ends.
-
Maybe there can be different battle types, depending on the current situation and position.
If two ships (or fleets) meet somewhere on a Route, there will just be a DM, but when enemy Fleets meet in a Town, they have to play CP to siege the Town. Trading ships who want to leave a sieged town have to be escorted through the blockade and so on.
-
what i would like to see is some kind of captian only bar us pilots can go and hang out in and smoke pipes and complain about powder monkeys n such..
maybe some npc bounties you compete with other players to go after aswell or something.
what would be cool is if the whole dev team went and played through skies of arcadia and made the adventure mode sort of like that, also skies of arcadia has cloud whales so lord tim would be happy
-
I've always loved cloud whales as the mermaids of GOI, but if an actual cloud whale showed up, you can sure bet I'd be the first person hunting it.
-
what i would like to see:
-being able to dock your ship in the docks of a flying island.
-being able to get quests in a pub from AI.
-exploring large lands and underground cavesystems.
-having the explorer mode as a open world with moving flying islands for map variation.
-being able to get a clan mothership, mothership would have a entrance hole in the side of the hull and will be able to let 10 friendly members vessels dock inside.
-having different physics with moving when entering different areas/boundries, such as clanmotherships and floating islands. (this is needed otherwise the movements of the floating object makes your ship crash if its not moving at the same physical direction)
-
Maybe there can be different battle types, depending on the current situation and position.
If two ships (or fleets) meet somewhere on a Route, there will just be a DM, but when enemy Fleets meet in a Town, they have to play CP to siege the Town. Trading ships who want to leave a sieged town have to be escorted through the blockade and so on.
Yes, we are implementing full functioning co-op (AI Director) for Adventure Mode. There will be a variety of additional types of game modes now that we'll have AI.
I've always loved cloud whales as the mermaids of GOI, but if an actual cloud whale showed up, you can sure bet I'd be the first person hunting it.
Clouds whales is a stretch goal... we'll get them in some way or another.
what i would like to see:
1) being able to dock your ship in the docks of a flying island.
2) being able to get quests in a pub from AI.
3) exploring large lands and underground cavesystems.
4) having the explorer mode as a open world with moving flying islands for map variation.
5) being able to get a clan mothership, mothership would have a entrance hole in the side of the hull and will be able to let 10 friendly members vessels dock inside.
6) having different physics with moving when entering different areas/boundries, such as clanmotherships and floating islands. (this is needed otherwise the movements of the floating object makes your ship crash if its not moving at the same physical direction)
1) docking ships yes, flying islands no. We don't have flying islands in real life so we won't have them in game.
2) Yes, to some extent. They're not quests, they're missions. Probably from some sort of NPC or hub.
3) Probably not. Stretch goal for non-mission based exploration and constrained to a route between towns. (You will be always traveling on routes, instanced scenes between towns. Can't do truly open world like driving your airship through Skyrim or something).
4) Lol no flying islands. This is similar to 3, if not the same. Stretch goal for non-mission based exploration on instanced routes. For this mode, instanced exploration routes could populate with other exploring ships. Don't know the specifics, it's a pretty high stretch goal.
5) while cool, probably not. Technology for the time makes it difficult to support airships of that size and with that amount of precise movement. Furthermore, the mission based structure we're looking towards may not support constant docking and undocking. A town's dock might look like a mothership... it's very hard to actually get the thing to move (lots of physics and insanity)
6) We can actually support all of this in the game as it stands now. The only thing is that we won't have floating islands or motherships even though it's a cool idea.
The world that GoIO takes place is an alternate history where WWI never ended. We don't have nuclear tech yet and probably never will. People found what we had before like diesel powered engines and made minor technological developments like balloon envelopes and using lighter than air gases for lift. It's pretty primitive in that sense. Can't get enough lift for floating land masses or huge ships really. The scarcity of resources makes it hard enough aside from realworld engineering and manufacturing efforts.
-
Will be adding information about Adventure Mode Kickstarter here as we get closer to launching it this week:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,346.0.html
-
Rofl, I'd imagine cloud whales is a very very long stretch goal.
-
Rofl, I'd imagine cloud whales is a very very long stretch goal.
Lol are we that predictable?
-
Some form of ship skins. And a way to earn them by playing pvp matches before the game comes out.
Also ship custimization and upgrades you need to work for.
-
With the stated ambitions of the Adventure Mode project and the desire to release it as paid DLC, I'm really wondering why this is being included in GoIO at all rather than as a standalone game. As it is, it sounds like Adventure Mode would be the new focus for the game, and having the focus be a separately purchased DLC sounds a bit iffy, especially if new customers come into the game wondering why they're getting a "trial" version and have to pay ANOTHER fee to get the "actual" game. Is this DLC going to be included by default for new purchases and only be purchasable as an expansion for those who already have a copy, or is that going to be included as a 2 for 1 deal on Steam?
How is this going to affect the community if it doesn't result in a rapid rise in total users, are we going to have a split community situation where half of the people are playing by themselves in Adventure Mode and the other half struggling to find matches in regular PvP? How is regular PvP going to be balanced once PvE concerns start coming in and conflicting with PvP? Are there going to be different PvE and PvP stats? Is it going to be possible to drive a fully capable PvP ship and still be able to PvE efficiently, and vice versa?
-
With the stated ambitions of the Adventure Mode project and the desire to release it as paid DLC, I'm really wondering why this is being included in GoIO at all rather than as a standalone game. As it is, it sounds like Adventure Mode would be the new focus for the game, and having the focus be a separately purchased DLC sounds a bit iffy, especially if new customers come into the game wondering why they're getting a "trial" version and have to pay ANOTHER fee to get the "actual" game. Is this DLC going to be included by default for new purchases and only be purchasable as an expansion for those who already have a copy, or is that going to be included as a 2 for 1 deal on Steam?
How is this going to affect the community if it doesn't result in a rapid rise in total users, are we going to have a split community situation where half of the people are playing by themselves in Adventure Mode and the other half struggling to find matches in regular PvP? How is regular PvP going to be balanced once PvE concerns start coming in and conflicting with PvP? Are there going to be different PvE and PvP stats? Is it going to be possible to drive a fully capable PvP ship and still be able to PvE efficiently, and vice versa?
No. When you buy Guns of Icarus Online for the standard $20 you get Skirmish Mode. There will be a separate DLC that you can buy to unlock Adventure Mode. When you go into the main screen, it will ask you if you want to play Skirmish or Adventure if you have both things installed.
There is no trial or anything. We can do a number of things on Steam in regard to packaging.
Skirmish Mode and Adventure Mode will most likely be silo'ed. In other words, they will use separate balance. As you mention, balancing PvE and PvP is an act waiting to fail. However, I am personally interested in bringing some of these game modes together and cross the divide—it's a matter of having the meetings to investigate how this might be possible. Of course, this will be to a limited degree. Some PvE game mdoes just won't work.
In other: I am locking this topic in favor of using the other one.
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,346.60.html