Guns Of Icarus Online

Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Spud Nick on September 09, 2013, 09:21:19 pm

Title: Detonate Mines
Post by: Spud Nick on September 09, 2013, 09:21:19 pm
Have the right mouse button detonate the mines. The zoom is not that useful on this gun and it would be a great feature to add to this gun.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Dutch Vanya on September 09, 2013, 09:29:30 pm
I'd like this. There would probably have to be some kind of restriction like an amount of time after deploying by which you can detonate them. Otherwise they wouldn't really be mines but more like a manually detonated cannonball.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Eukari on September 09, 2013, 09:40:54 pm
I think it could work if you did two things- added a "loading time" until the mines would explode manually (maybe five seconds?), and make it so you explode all your mines at once. Essentially, it's all or nothing- you can't keep any mines around if you detonate manually, reducing their passive effects (area denial) by increasing your control.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: JaegerDelta on September 09, 2013, 11:43:05 pm
Mines already destroy faces. all the faces. this would just make them even more powerful by being able to reset your 5 mine manually  or pull off smaller chain reactions that will be ultimately devastating.  the way it is now placement failure matters, with this you remove that and thus remove any semblance of balance. furthermore the detonation after 5 is there for performance issues and balance, if you add manual wireless detonation you imply a level of tech that hasn't been shown in anything else.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Imagine on September 10, 2013, 04:17:25 am
You can already set your mines of by firing the gun itself...
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Cheeseycom on September 10, 2013, 04:56:34 am
Perhaps this could be balanced by substantially reducing the explosive yield of manually detonated mines (to 1/2 or even 1/4 of its originally strength), or even changing the explosive type to something less damaging (say the scuttling charge doesn't detonate the bomb but rather just shatters it, so the debris acts like a flak/carronade hit against a balloon, but is less effective on hull)? So even if a ship gets caught in your trap, it doesn't mean instant death.

Manual detonation would make the mine layer slightly more interesting, since it could actively be used as a weapon rather than just for area denial.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Squidslinger Gilder on September 10, 2013, 05:11:29 am
If it had a larger explosion radius then yeah this feature would be godlike. But if you are to manually detonate after it has it's bag blown then you aren't changing the ranges any. It would need remote detonation capability during the flight. Which wouldn't make it OP unless you are within the range of it. Then it would be "ZOMG EVERYTHING IS BLOWING UP!!"
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Cheeseycom on September 10, 2013, 05:21:09 am
I just had another thought - rather than detonating the mine explosive itself, how about the ability to pop the balloons on command?
It would be tricky to time it right, but you could shoot a load of mines over someones ship and then get them to drop from above.

It would also help eliminate some (but not all) of the balance problems created by allowing players to detonate their own mines to refresh their stock, since if the popped mine didn't hit anything, they would have to wait for it to reach the ground and explode before they got it back.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Zenark on September 10, 2013, 12:12:42 pm
I honestly think a manual detonation would make it overpowered. I love the Mine launcher and those I fight against know how devastating it can be when used right. The times I miss my shots are when I don't cater to our ship's movement, or they're just out of range. With a remote detonation, I'd probably be hitting 70% more of my shots, and it only takes two mines to really ruin someone's day.

The fact that they only explode when hit by a ship or another mine gives it a requirement of experience, timing and trigonometry. It's difficult to use, and therfore, balanced, not to mention fun.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: HamsterIV on September 10, 2013, 12:35:35 pm
The mine is a very high risk/reward weapon. Giving it the ability to manually detonate would substantially lower the risk of using it while taking away none of the reward. It can be frustrating dumping mine after mine just meters outside the detonation range of an enemy ship, but that is the cost of bringing a mine launcher to a gun fight.

One thing I wouldn't mind changing is the amount of damage a mine can take before detonating to direct fire. I would prefer it to be less. One direct hit by a merc or artimis should be enough to set off a mine, right now I think it takes two merc hits, and I don't know how many artimis hits.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Cheeseycom on September 10, 2013, 01:39:30 pm
It could always be a new weapon, rather than a modification of the old one.
There's more than one kind of rocket launcher, so why not a mini-mine launcher that allows detonation but does less damage?
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Letus on September 12, 2013, 02:27:21 am
A detonation would be fun, but if you do it right, you can easily make a wall near the ships with five mines, and with the sixth shot...make three of those mines go off onto the enemy ship as they try to avoid....
And you get hit by those three...well saying that two is a world of pain...

It's a tough gun to read, but once you're able to read it well...the need for a remote detonation becomes less a need...other than to remove your own mines that aren't being used.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Captain Phil on September 12, 2013, 02:51:30 am
You can detonate your mines. 2 merc shots will blow a mine field and any ship near it up. Had a few mines in front of my Spire to stop a pyra from ramming me, and when the pyra went to go around the mines I blew the mines up for some nice damage.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Letus on September 12, 2013, 03:07:50 am
You can detonate your mines. 2 merc shots will blow a mine field and any ship near it up. Had a few mines in front of my Spire to stop a pyra from ramming me, and when the pyra went to go around the mines I blew the mines up for some nice damage.

or...you can use your ally ship...
Cruel?  Yes.  Effective?  Yes.  Hilarious?  Yes.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Captain Smollett on September 12, 2013, 03:21:10 am
I've piloted intentionally before into my own mines before to detonate a mine field and finish a weakened enemy.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Gambrill on September 13, 2013, 07:46:37 am
You can already set your mines of by firing the gun itself...

No. You set off ONE mine, multiple if they are closer to each other.

while the idea would be nice i also feel like it would make the mine launcher too overpowered, Hamster's Reward/risk theory is perfect for explaining.

It could always be a new weapon, rather than a modification of the old one.
There's more than one kind of rocket launcher, so why not a mini-mine launcher that allows detonation but does less damage?

Cheesycom, nice idea but it would mean Muse would need to create a new design etc. since its a completely new gun. plus a mine launcher is a completely unique weapon compared to the other weapons in the game. the only one with impact etc. and the only one that causes a change in direction for other ships. And its still quite a new weapon. we can let a smaller brother of it over-shadow it already, can we? :)
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: HamsterIV on September 13, 2013, 10:31:33 am
When I use mines I tell my gunners to bring burst rounds, that increases the spacing you need for one mine to trigger multiple mines. It is still pretty rare for a ship to stay in one spot long enough for an attacker to get 5 mines from one mine launcher in its area, but any mine that is placed close enough to self detonate usually takes 2 or 3 of its nearby friends with it. Also an enemy ship can be "encouraged" to stay in one spot through the use of manticore or carronades.

I really want to try out Captain Phil's remote detonation merc system, but have yet to find another captain sufficiently dickish enough.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Cheeseycom on September 13, 2013, 02:20:55 pm
Cheesycom, nice idea but it would mean Muse would need to create a new design etc. since its a completely new gun. plus a mine launcher is a completely unique weapon compared to the other weapons in the game. the only one with impact etc. and the only one that causes a change in direction for other ships. And its still quite a new weapon. we can let a smaller brother of it over-shadow it already, can we? :)

Well assuming it were a good enough addition, there's nothing to stop Muse adding in a new design - they're introducing the Magma cannon, so a new weapon isn't out of the question.
Depends how busy they are, I guess.. ;)

I don't think a mini-mine launcher would necessarily overshadow its bigger brother, as it wouldn't have the same impact that a regular mine detonation would - just because the Carronade is better for popping balloons (albeit at close range), that doesn't mean the Flak cannon has no use.. it just fills a similar but slightly different niche.
While the large 'dumb' mines could be termed as 'ship-busters', the smaller 'smart' mines could, for example, be aimed more at balloon deflation, or act a bit like a chaff cloud to distact the enemy (perhaps the function could even be determined by the ammo type equipped). It would be easier to hit with since it would cover a wider area with a greater quantity of mines, but the smaller warheads wouldn't do quite as much damage by comparison to the original.

I reckon this idea would work whether the mines would be detonable by remote or not.. I think it's just a matter of play-testing to get the balance right - it seems like multi-function mini-mines could be, if not super destructive, at least tactically quite useful. Remote detonation would just add another facet to their tactical potential.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: The Sky Wolf on October 28, 2013, 04:21:35 am
Definite support of this idea, it'll be in a C4 explosives style. I can see absolutely no reason for the zoom on a mine laying gun... The right-click detonate is a fantastic idea.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Serenum on October 28, 2013, 06:38:55 am
Definite support of this idea, it'll be in a C4 explosives style. I can see absolutely no reason for the zoom on a mine laying gun... The right-click detonate is a fantastic idea.

Same here.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: zlater75@hotmail.com on October 28, 2013, 08:05:52 am
I like this idea too. Also a timer to detonate automatically after some time. Enough time for making a small minefield but not to last forever.

Detonate would be awesome with
- lesmok : longrange normal detonation
- burst : shrapnel detonation
- incendiary : flame detonation
- heavy : effective detonation, smaller aoe
- lochnagar : effective detonation
- heatsink : normal detonation with heatsink attributes.
- charged : short range, effective
- greased : faster loadtime, normal detonation.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Thomas on October 28, 2013, 09:50:12 am
As already pointed out, you can 'remote detonate' mines by firing 1 more mine that can be sustained. This will trigger the oldest mine, and may cause a chain reaction.

That being said, since you can already remote detonate them, I see no issue with making it easier to do so.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Cl ick to Ca p t ain on October 28, 2013, 10:38:31 am
Why don't we just raise the cap of mines you can have to ten while you're at it.
</sarcasm>
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: The Djinn on October 28, 2013, 11:00:22 am
That being said, since you can already remote detonate them, I see no issue with making it easier to do so.

The issue with making it easier is that there's some skill to a chain reaction of mines: getting that huge a blast on target isn't exactly easy. If you can just detonate mines, that skill is effectively unnecessary, and huge damage bursts are MUCH easier to accomplish.

It's also a bit out-of-theme for the game, as remote detonation requires some form of communication with the detonation device: something GoI doesn't have. I understand there's a bit of a disconnect since the 6th+ mine detonates older ones, but that's a necessary game mechanic to prevent endless mine spam.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with at-will mine detonation. I feel it doesn't fit the game's feel, and I'm also wary of the easy power it gives the mine launcher.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Thomas on October 28, 2013, 12:27:50 pm
It's not easy, but you can do it. I remember on one occasion we were having an all mine match and got a lot of practice at both avoiding mines and getting them to 'remote detonate' by placing an extra one. Getting them to blow up doesn't take much skill, but getting them to actually do some damage without someone running into them takes a lot of skill.

The 'remote detonation' is made difficult by the timing of the gun. You have to reload the next round, fire, and then wait for it to deploy. So if you try to fire that 6th mine as they pass by your first, chances are you won't actually do damage, as they'll be past it by the time it actually blows.


Currently it feels that mines aren't all that powerful. They're pretty easy to avoid, and only become a real nuisance when you're chasing a ship down (and even then, if you get close enough the mines lose a lot of their effect. You'll either pass by them or have the mine shots hit you before they deploy). They can get annoying when a ship has nothing but mine launchers on certain maps, but given the three dimensional nature of the game, you can still easily avoid them; and the ship full of mines is less able to actively seek out kills or even defend itself when engaged. It can just run and lay mines.


Adding an actual remote feature doesn't change too much, and really depends on how you do it. Does it just blow up one mine at a time? Or all of them? This can make it difficult to get a hit on the target you want or keep a good defensive field respectively. Should there be a range on the detonator? Does an active detonate cause a smaller aoe explosion? Does hitting the detonate happen automatically, or have a time delay?

There's a lot of ways to go about it to prevent it from becoming overpowering.



As for it not fitting the feel of the world, I can't imagine that they do not have electricity or radio. You can see all the lights on the different maps, and ships are able to communicate with each other. Not to mention the Tesla weapons in GoI and the old heat seeking missile launchers in earlier versions of GoIO.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: zlater75@hotmail.com on October 28, 2013, 05:52:38 pm
getting second thoughts on the remote detonation. but would like to see a shrapnel mine for burst. fine with them as is.
Title: Re: Detonate Mines
Post by: Gambrill on October 30, 2013, 03:12:17 pm
I actually use the zoom on the mine launcher. Even though its a small zoom its still very helpful :)