Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Sprayer on September 02, 2013, 06:55:24 am
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Add a feature for creating lobbies to disallow noobs to join that lobby. Who those noobs are you ask? Everyone who is level 1 in every class and did not complete the tutorial. (note it's an AND condition, so both parts of the condition must be fulfilled) People who do not have the common sense to play the tutorial first when starting a multiplayer game rightfully earn the negatively coined title of noob.
Making it optional allows for friends of new players to teach the rookies themselves, people who are teached in that manner are sure to become level 2 in some class by the end of the teaching. Also, playing the tutorial should not be asked too much of anyone as it takes about 5 minutes.
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I still think we will need more sophistication than that, I will start something in general discussion tonight.
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I'm sorry since I may be biased on this (I hate the word "noobs" since it's negatively connotated) but I think it would split the community apart.
I agree with you on having to solve the problem behind this, but I don't think giving everyone a button to press to keep out unexperienced new players isn't the way to choose.
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If a 1 1 1 joins my ship I usually quickly friend them to see how many matches they've played.
Tten I take it as my opportunity to welcome them them to guns of Icarus and take some time to teach them the basics of the game.
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If a 1 1 1 joins my ship I usually quickly friend them to see how many matches they've played.
Tten I take it as my opportunity to welcome them them to guns of Icarus and take some time to tech the the basics of the game.
This is exactly what i was going to say, you've only gone and beat me to it XD
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I'm sorry since I may be biased on this (I hate the word "noobs" since it's negatively connotated) but I think it would split the community apart.
I agree with you on having to solve the problem behind this, but I don't think giving everyone a button to press to keep out unexperienced new players isn't the way to choose.
Splitting up the community isn't bad per se. The trick is to make sure the players can migrate to any of the pools if they so desire and are able to compete in that pool.
If a 1 1 1 joins my ship I usually quickly friend them to see how many matches they've played.
Tten I take it as my opportunity to welcome them them to guns of Icarus and take some time to teach them the basics of the game.
And then that 1 1 1 does this:
(http://localoptionbier.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/kid-w-middle-finger.jpg)
Really, been there done that.
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The suggestion is being 1 1 1 AND not having done the tutorial
It's not that big of a split
going to level 2 takes only a few games and doing the tutorial isn't that long either
do one of these and you're not a "noob" anymore
Not saying I'm for or against this idea it's just that I don't find the suggestion hard enough to like, split the community apart.
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Think about it: The tutorial is currently evolving, it will become longer and more into detail. Doing all of these tutorials will take it's time as well as leveling EACH class to level 2 (they are still new und unexperienced players then) and by the end of the day we still have stacked teams that shoot those "not-noobs" into skyri...oblivion.
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I think a more constructive way to go about this is just locking the non-beginner matches until a player reaches Level 2 or 3 in at least one class. They will have at least learned the basic mechanics of the game to the point that they can join a normal match and learn from it, rather than just drowning in it.
Personal anecdote: When I first joined I *grossly* underestimated how deep this game was. I thought this would be more like an xbox live online match where everybody just kind of grabs guns and goes crazy, the majority of people don't communicate or know what they're doing, etc.
I played beginner matches but it's *really* hard to enjoy those matches because the captains are awful (I would quit games after 5-10min of 0-0). I started to branch out into matches above my skill level to try to see how the more experienced players worked and sometimes we won, sometimes we lost. Only once did I rage quit because the captain was such a douche about "WHY ARE MY ENGINES DOWN?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TRESERITOPS?! YOU HAVE TO REPAIR THE SHIP!" I was repairing the hull or something else and just misunderstood the "hierarchy" or repairs but noob stomping isn't cool.
Point is: no one wants to play beginner matches because you *don't learn* in them. And playing in the main matches is difficult.
Unlocking parts of the game would be a better solution:
Complete Tutorial- Opens up beginner matches in the non-pilot class. If you only do the engineer class, you cannot play as a gunner. (This is the only time the engineer and gunner unlock separately.
Level 3 in either class- Unlocks Pilot of beginner match and normal matches for non-pilot. (at this point if you are level 3 engineer you can play as a level 1 gunner in a normal match)
Level 3 of pilot- opens up piloting in normal matches.
[separate suggestion] Expand the CA role to include a lesser ambassador who can play in the beginner matches as a teacher/instructor. This way there would hopefully be at least 5-10 of these Match Ambassadors online who would teach in beginner matches from time to time.
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If a 1 1 1 joins my ship I usually quickly friend them to see how many matches they've played.
Tten I take it as my opportunity to welcome them them to guns of Icarus and take some time to teach them the basics of the game.
+1
I've had a lot of positive experiences with new players I've taught from scratch (starting with when to use mallet/spanner/extinguisher and when to hit which components with which weapon). Some of them picked up the game really quickly and after a couple of matches they played significantly better than many high level players I've flown with.
I think it's mostly about the attitude of the pilot/crew whether they can work with inexperienced crew members or not. If you just expect things to run smoothly and start yelling if they don't, neither you, nor your crew will have a pleasant time. I can work with roughly 80-90% of those powder monkeys and swabbies who happened to end up on my ship if I'm in the mood to teach.
The remaining players are those who either struggle with language barriers, paying attention or processing the information provided and are very well able to cause discomfort for me and my crew.
Still, at least for me, the positive experiences out-weight the negative ones by far. On a side note: I actually prefer playing with lvl 1 players over playing with lvl 2-3 player, as it's easier to teach people from scratch than breaking bad habits. Those players who've just bought the game and experience their first matches are usually interested and eager to learn. Hence they're often easier to teach and pick up stuff quicker than players who've already played a couple of matches on their own and think they had got a grasp for the game.
Regarding Sprayers initial suggestion: I don't think pestering new players with a forced to tutorial would do us any good. In their current state there's little to learn from the tutorials anyway as they don't even cover the very basics of the game. Once the tutorials are a bit more sophisticated I think some sort of "we strongly recommend to play the tutorial"-pop up at the first login might come in handy.
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I would like people to need to do at least the very basics of a tutorial.
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As promised: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2329.new.html
Lets get some discussion going and get a proper suggestion out to the developers.
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Keep your thread to yourself. Nobody here agrees with that thread. Not a single person. I have a few things I really want to say to you but they might get me kicked out of the CAs, which is a position I really enjoy. Anyhow. Your idea is - one I strongly disagree with (edit: keep it calm) - and I really dislike every single idea you've proposed in it, from the "reporting casual players" to the idea that only the "cool bros" can be in the competitive scene.
Okay. Take two.
Please keep your ideas out of here. They are completely out of scope for this thread.
I think this thread is a pretty good idea. I guess I feel like the best thing to do would be a blanket "You must have completed the beginner tutorial of your class to play in the game as that class, period." Not the advanced tutorial or anything, just the basics. It doesn't make sense to me that anybody would want to allow level 1-1-1s who have never done a single tutorial. Just grey out "join match" until you do at least one tutorial. It's not that harsh, or at least it doesn't feel so to me. Thoughts?
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Problem is that I think the current tutorials are kinda...lackluster. I think if they get improved it would make a lot more sense to have them be required to play a class. (i.e. if you wanna try engineer, you gotta finish the engineer tutorial)
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Problem is that I think the current tutorials are kinda...lackluster. I think if they get improved it would make a lot more sense to have them be required to play a class. (i.e. if you wanna try engineer, you gotta finish the engineer tutorial)
Very true. Though I think muse is working on them, if I remember right.
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I know the tutorials are still lacking, it still is the least new players should try to learn. They already cover "Spanner is used to rebuild parts" and "mallet is used to repair parts" and "cooldown of repairs". I am kind of sick of explaining those to all the Swabbies.
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Err, I thought that was covered by the tutorials... I'll double check when I get home.
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Yes, that's what I said.
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I think we will have to wait and see what Muse has in the trails :https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2327.msg39796.html?PHPSESSID=t2b2tauftkbuec56gpg32jqhr2#new.
One of the solution would be to integrate the tutorials as part of the classes rank unlocks (insert shiny reward here). This way a lot of more players will attempt the tutos, and with some luck will learn how to fix this damn hull.
I'm one of the most tyrannic, unfriendly, poor-english speaking captains outta here, but still : They are not all noobs, they are newbies. I'm often surprised to encounter smart and cool people in the 1 1 1 situation. They are curious, want to play the game and we had a lot of fun. Idiots will always be everywhere at anytime. An appropriate move to mitigate their impact, yes. A hammer bashing against any new player, I'm not sure the game would stand that longer...
just my 2 cents.
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newb = newbie = novice = noob
There is no distinction between newbies and noobs. Now I understand you want to segregate between actual types of players, I tend to call the worser ones just 'casual' players(which by my definition is just a fancy word for retards), others just 'bad' players. As for those that have potential, I'd sure as hell would love to see them put in an environment where they can succeed.
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Keep your thread to yourself. Nobody here agrees with that thread. Not a single person. I have a few things I really want to say to you but they might get me kicked out of the CAs, which is a position I really enjoy. Anyhow. Your idea is - one I strongly disagree with (edit: keep it calm) - and I really dislike every single idea you've proposed in it, from the "reporting casual players" to the idea that only the "cool bros" can be in the competitive scene.
Feel free to unleash whatever feelings you have towards me in pm. Keep in mind however that that is a two way street which means that no action can be taken against me for whatever reply I decide to make. Furthermore, I would like you to read the (full) post before you comment on it because something is telling me you missed just about half of it. Nowhere did I mention an elite scene or competitive scene. The competitive pool is accessible enough as it is, I see no reason to change that:p
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Keep your thread to yourself. Nobody here agrees with that thread. Not a single person. I have a few things I really want to say to you but they might get me kicked out of the CAs, which is a position I really enjoy. Anyhow. Your idea is - one I strongly disagree with (edit: keep it calm) - and I really dislike every single idea you've proposed in it, from the "reporting casual players" to the idea that only the "cool bros" can be in the competitive scene.
Feel free to unleash whatever feelings you have towards me in pm. Keep in mind however that that is a two way street which means that no action can be taken against me for whatever reply I decide to make. Furthermore, I would like you to read the (full) post before you comment on it because something is telling me you missed just about half of it. Nowhere did I mention an elite scene or competitive scene. The competitive pool is accessible enough as it is, I see no reason to change that:p
You're a good player and I value you in the community. I'm truly sorry about the previous post. It was completely out of scope. My humblest apologies.
Anyways. I tried the tutorials last night. The fire extinguisher one for engineer seemed broken. I'd extinguish a part but it wouldn't proceed to the next stage.
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Tutorials worked fine for me when I started. About three weeks ago or so? Was there a patch since then?
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If we locked new players to new player matches they may never find out what this game is about. New players should be allowed to continue joining regular matches to learn the meta then go back to "beginner matches" and pub stomp with that meta until they no longer qualify for "beginner matches." The best way to learn the meta is to fly with someone who knows it. The second best way is to fly against someone who knows it. Dicking around until something works is a distant third.
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^
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That.
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I would have sucked at this game and gave it up as a bad job had I not flown against Zill early on.
I thought I was hot stuff at the time, and then he, Yiski, and Shink pounded me into the ground a few times. I not longer thought I was good.
I dislike petty discrimination or segregation based on the fact that it's sometimes difficult to get along with other people. On average I have met great people who were willing to listen and learn, even if it didn't seem like it. I've had some very inexperienced players do a great job on my ship because I was a bit patient with them, and explained how things work.
If you are unwilling to teach newbies then you need to find a group of players to buffer yourself with. Otherwise you are going to have to take a good hard look at how you relate to new players. If you are consistently having a bad time, you might look at changing your own behavior, rather than trying to ship away the "problem".
It seems to me like you are trying to find an easy way out, rather than take the time to sort the problem properly. It is true that some people are there to ruin the experience for others. But really there are at least three better ways to tackle this particular issue. Nobody should have to be put in the "Pool on the Roof" group.
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If we locked new players to new player matches they may never find out what this game is about. New players should be allowed to continue joining regular matches to learn the meta then go back to "beginner matches" and pub stomp with that meta until they no longer qualify for "beginner matches." The best way to learn the meta is to fly with someone who knows it. The second best way is to fly against someone who knows it. Dicking around until something works is a distant third.
Read OP, all of you. This thread is about forcing tutorial/ranking up to level 2-1-1 to players. Or at least that is my understanding. I completely agree with you about everything else. I don't want to alienate new players. I don't want to do anything of the sort. I guess the title is sort of misleading. Nobody here wants a separation of players. (Okay, I shouldn't speak for everybody, but it's safe to say most of us don't.)
Edit: Requesting name change to something more descriptive of proposal. Maybe "Require new players to complete tutorial or reach level 2." or something. I see how it's misleading.
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Easier solution: mandatory tutorials.
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I supported that idea as well, if you recall.
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Easier solution: mandatory tutorials.
I second this!
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What if completing the tutorials took you from rank 0 to rank 1? (Or 1 to 2). Then we can look at a player and nicely suggest: Hey, it looks like you haven't done the tutorials. You probably will have a better time if you do.
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I'm just going to be unproductive here and say that, truthfully, I have yet to do the tutorial.
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I'm just going to be unproductive here and say that, truthfully, I have yet to do the tutorial.
I tried the pilot one out, but it was extremely basic. As in, "Fly to this point! Fly to this other point! Congrats!"
The gunner one was slightly better (I believe it actually mentions damage types), but still a little lackluster.
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If we locked new players to new player matches they may never find out what this game is about. New players should be allowed to continue joining regular matches to learn the meta then go back to "beginner matches" and pub stomp with that meta until they no longer qualify for "beginner matches." The best way to learn the meta is to fly with someone who knows it. The second best way is to fly against someone who knows it. Dicking around until something works is a distant third.
I would have sucked at this game and gave it up as a bad job had I not flown against Zill early on.
I thought I was hot stuff at the time, and then he, Yiski, and Shink pounded me into the ground a few times. I not longer thought I was good.
I dislike petty discrimination or segregation based on the fact that it's sometimes difficult to get along with other people. On average I have met great people who were willing to listen and learn, even if it didn't seem like it. I've had some very inexperienced players do a great job on my ship because I was a bit patient with them, and explained how things work.
If you are unwilling to teach newbies then you need to find a group of players to buffer yourself with. Otherwise you are going to have to take a good hard look at how you relate to new players. If you are consistently having a bad time, you might look at changing your own behavior, rather than trying to ship away the "problem".
It seems to me like you are trying to find an easy way out, rather than take the time to sort the problem properly. It is true that some people are there to ruin the experience for others. But really there are at least three better ways to tackle this particular issue. Nobody should have to be put in the "Pool on the Roof" group.
Derailment ftw.
Seriously my OP is like five lines can't be too hard to read can it?
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Derailment ftw.
Seriously my OP is like five lines can't be too hard to read can it?
No, I fully understand you. However you might see my response as a bit pedantic.
I'm sorry. Your post literally says "Lock out noobs" and you suggest adding a feature to lobbies to prevent low level players from joining. Some people (myself included) prefer to learn by doing. Yeah, sure, tutorials can be helpful, even necessary. But there is no reason to have an option like this except to confuse new players and lock them into terrible games where they are unlikely to learn.
I strongly dislike the idea of dividing the player base, even for something as "small" as level 1s who have not completed the tutorial. I would rather have learned from a person, to know that someone actually cared enough to teach me the game personally. Now that can go either way, and it would be helpful to have the tutorial, but having someone instruct you teaches you more than how the play the game. It teaches you the implicit expectations for interaction within the game. Additionally not everyone likes having a tutorial thrown in your face immediately. People like me enjoying trying things on their own first. Then going back to the tutorial for the "what am I missing here" if they suck.
There are psychological components to listening to people talk, rather than following a series of computer prompts. It's the same reason I loathe online classes: I need a professor to actually learn anything. I'm sure myself and people like me are in the minority, but really, I think the problem is a bit inflated too, but that's a matter of opinion and playstyle.
I get that this isn't really as big of a deal as I am making it, but I'd hate to see people stop caring about low level players. I'm not sure the tutorials would entirely solve the problem. There is a lot more to this game than the mechanics. I'd actually say the mechanics are some of the least important things about playing this game.
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don't mean to cause a fight here QKO but i see alot of your threads complaining about one thing or another (from ships to certain players to nerfing weapons*) Do you truly hate this game that much? :/
*last one i cannot fully remember if it was you.
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don't mean to cause a fight here QKO but i see alot of your threads complaining about one thing or another (from ships to certain players to nerfing weapons*) Do you truly hate this game that much? :/
*last one i cannot fully remember if it was you.
Now that is derailing. Keep it civil peeps.
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don't mean to cause a fight here QKO but i see alot of your threads complaining about one thing or another (from ships to certain players to nerfing weapons*) Do you truly hate this game that much? :/
*last one i cannot fully remember if it was you.
I didn't complain about any ships, I did complain about having people trolling me and requiring CA mods or muse developers to remove them and I did complain about the mortar being OP. It still is OP and everyone and their mother still uses those things because they do the same as a flak when carrying lesmok and rape ships(including Goldfishes and Galleons) with greased rounds.
I am listing everything that I do right now because I know the developers are listening and willing to hear input. So however nitpicky it might be, I'll report it and let the developers sort out on what they dare to do and what not. And I do it nicely on these forums so that people are open to argue with me and can try to explain me why I'm supposedly wrong. That is how these silly things called forums work. Now if there's anything else you wish to know, just let me know.