Guns Of Icarus Online

Community => Community Events => Topic started by: Morbie on August 29, 2013, 08:13:49 pm

Title: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morbie on August 29, 2013, 08:13:49 pm
As per the wishes of Squash and the ducks, we're bringing the titles into the full ruleset for competitive, and making a new thread so that all questions about them will go here, and he won't have to deal with them. Down to business!
At this very moment, the titles stand as follows. This is going to be constantly updated to have the most recent in place, so you know exactly who to hunt down an claim a title from. But how, and why, would you claim a title though? To claim another title from a team, simply beat them on a map they hold the title for! Other then proving that you are even better at that map then the team you wrestle it from, it will get you and your team one extra point towards the end of season tournament (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1868.0.html)


Bringers of Dawn: Ducks

(http://i.imgur.com/0fTpvTB.jpg)


Timekeepers of Paritan: Ducks

(http://i.imgur.com/cbTvdXf.jpg)


Lords of the Labyrinth: Merry Men

(http://i.imgur.com/dQ14YiG.jpg)


Masters of Ambush: Merry Men

(http://i.imgur.com/8MSu4xb.jpg)


Sultans of the Dunes: Overwatch

(http://i.imgur.com/PBlC09q.jpg)


Barons of Fjords: Ducks

(http://i.imgur.com/aKlz6uA.jpg)

But once you have your title, others will come for it, so be prepared to hold it, and even more prepared for an ambush.

Protecting:
The title can be taken from you, and you have to protect it. Any time your team competes in a competitive scrimmage, Cogs, or participating tournaments, on the map you hold your title to, your title is in jeopardy. Should your team lose, the team that beat you will take your title, and you will no longer be the champions of that map, or holders of the territory.

Ambush:
To take a title from another team, you just have to beat them on the map they hold the title to. If you are scheduled to fight them (either by official scrimmage, Cogs, or participating tournament), but the map you are scheduled to fight them on is not the map they hold the title for, you can force them to play on the title map instead. The decision to do this can be done at any point before the match starts, even in the lobby.

Let’s use an example. The Lizard People have claimed the title to Duel at Dawn in The Flotsam Dynasty Tournament. They are now the undisputed champions on that map. You’re in Eagle Squad, and are unhappy with this turn of events. In two weeks, you’re scheduled to fight The Lizard People in Cogs. Unfortunately, you learn the map your teams will fight on is Northern Fjords. You can only steal the Duel at Dawn title by beating The Lizard People on Duel at Dawn. However, you can Ambush The Lizard People, forcing them to defend their title, and changing the map minutes before the Cogs round starts.

While this may seem unfair to the poor Lizard People, having a title makes the clear assertion that they are in fact the best, most fearsome team when fighting on that map, of course they have to always be ready to defend themselves on that map! It also means that the more titles a team collects, the harder it will be to defend each of them, as the number of maps they could potentially play on in every competitive event grows!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Gambrill on August 30, 2013, 02:31:06 am
Stay on your toes fellas!!!!

i have a lot of free time... and soon titles too ;)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on September 08, 2013, 02:02:03 pm
does overwatch still excist?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Gryphos on September 08, 2013, 03:17:51 pm
does overwatch still excist?

It does indeed. It is though apparently going through a few minor changes. It may take a bit of time for it to recover to full strength but it's in no way gone.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mr. Ace Rimmer on September 09, 2013, 11:11:20 am
Somebody wasn't paying attention to the sunday rumble last night :P
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on September 09, 2013, 11:49:07 am
Somebody wasn't paying attention to the sunday rumble last night :P

was written before that.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morbie on September 14, 2013, 03:19:58 am
The Ducks have claimed Paritan
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Gryphos on September 14, 2013, 04:52:02 am
The Ducks have claimed Paritan

It's actually called Paritu- you know what, screw it. Paritan it is.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on September 14, 2013, 10:32:33 am
A small inaccuracy, we were able to barely pry the title from OVW tightly clasped fingers.

Holy crap, they were great games.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Squash on September 14, 2013, 10:35:42 am
Seriously, we're talking 5-4, insanely close games.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morblitz on September 14, 2013, 10:37:18 am
Stop having great games at 4am in the morning! I want to be a part of them!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Puppy Fur on October 03, 2013, 12:15:15 pm
It seems like a chore more then a reward to keep these titles honestly.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Gambrill on October 03, 2013, 05:49:15 pm
Stay on your toes fellas!!!!

i have a lot of free time... and soon titles too ;)

i have yet to acquire one D:
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: N-Sunderland on October 03, 2013, 06:00:32 pm
It seems like a chore more then a reward to keep these titles honestly.

Exactly! We're not taking titles, we're shifting the burden ;)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on October 03, 2013, 06:11:44 pm
It seems like a chore more then a reward to keep these titles honestly.

With great power comes great responsibility...to do chores.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morblitz on October 05, 2013, 11:09:57 am
It seems like a chore more then a reward to keep these titles honestly.

Well, titles wouldn't reflect a teams dominance on certain maps if it was easy to keep them.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: RearAdmiralZill on October 05, 2013, 11:20:26 am
I dont think they symbolize anything honestly. It was fun fighting for them in the Flotsam, but afterwards its just, meh.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on October 05, 2013, 07:40:53 pm
my suggestion.

flotsam could be tied to the boxing kind of belt champion thing.
so a map which is the title would be tied to perhaps a streamer who is in charge on keeping sight of his "belt"
so a team challenges another team who has a title and then they contact the streamer who will set something up on behalf of both teams?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on November 25, 2013, 03:53:54 am
I dont think they symbolize anything honestly. It was fun fighting for them in the Flotsam, but afterwards its just, meh.

take back those words!
they represent skill and dedication to the game, dont think of it lightly.
now the TFD has a new goal.

STEALING ALL THE TITLES FROM THE DUCKS!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morblitz on November 25, 2013, 04:05:26 am
The Ducks don't even have them all! At the moment they're pretty spread out amongst 3 clans. Plenty to choose from.

By all means though, come and get 'em!

edit:
I just heard that your match against the Ducks in the invitational tournament was based on a title challenge for Paritan? That's awesome. Good competitive spirit!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mr. Ace Rimmer on November 25, 2013, 04:30:42 am
Indeed, and to so narrowly miss out on it made for great viewing. That was an intense match to see as a spectator.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on December 01, 2013, 05:00:39 am
will these still have an effect? and is it possible to challenge outside of events?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on December 01, 2013, 09:03:22 am
I like to see them as in effect.  As to whether they can be used,  if it's an official scrim, yes and if an organizer allows it, yes. Obviously some tournaments wouldn't work with title challenging so its up to the discretion of the organizer
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Tropo on January 19, 2014, 11:46:55 pm
recently i beat the ducks in a skrim (it was for points what ever so i have screen shots) on both dawn at daul and northern fjord do i own those titles now ?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Captain Smollett on January 20, 2014, 12:07:01 am
Only if they agreed to a challenge for the titles.

Scrims are whatever you make them.

When I used to compete we used to play best two out of three on the map being challenged if doing it in a scrim.  In an event that supports titles you can challenge the team at any time and wine the title through a match switch.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Tropo on January 20, 2014, 02:14:57 am
sounds a bit silly to me did we beat yahs or not it not a win because you didn't agree omg this community and yah rules
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on January 20, 2014, 03:19:33 am
It has to be agreed upon before hand, that is hardly silly. If it was a title match then we would probably have wanted it to be BO3 on just the one map being challenged.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on January 20, 2014, 09:07:50 am
I think there's some confusion as to the interpretation of the rules here....

Reward:
Definition of DYNASTY
1
: a succession of rulers of the same line of descent
2
: a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time

At the completion of each day’s bracket, the winner will receive a title for the map they have claimed. That title identifies the team as the absolute champions of that map, the clear and undisputed rulers of that territory. They will also be given a graphic which they can post on their clan’s thread. There will be an additional thread which exists only to track which team has what titles. There are six titles, one for each 2v2 map.

Titles don’t end here. These titles are kept after this event ends. Teams will hold their title until it is taken from them. That’s right, it’s not enough to take a title, and you also have to defend it! A title is taken when the title holder loses an official scrimmage, Cogs or (participating) tournament match on the map they hold the title for. This is a long term competitive game system with implications for how clans compete, and the details of which are better covered in its accompanying thread.

But once you have your title, others will come for it, so be prepared to hold it, and even more prepared for an ambush.

Protecting:
The title can be taken from you, and you have to protect it. Any time your team competes in a competitive scrimmage, Cogs, or participating tournaments, on the map you hold your title to, your title is in jeopardy. Should your team lose, the team that beat you will take your title, and you will no longer be the champions of that map, or holders of the territory.

Ambush:
To take a title from another team, you just have to beat them on the map they hold the title to. If you are scheduled to fight them (either by official scrimmage, Cogs, or participating tournament), but the map you are scheduled to fight them on is not the map they hold the title for, you can force them to play on the title map instead. The decision to do this can be done at any point before the match starts, even in the lobby.

From these quotes, those maps do in fact belong to SAC
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mr. Ace Rimmer on January 20, 2014, 09:40:19 am
Oh wow! Looking at those rules I do have to agree with Shink. Those maps do in fact belong to SAC especially seeming Tropo has the Screenshots to prove it as per official scrimmage rules.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Captain Smollett on January 20, 2014, 10:44:01 am
Hrmm, I always thought it had to be directly challenged before the onset of the match in a scrim.

Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on January 20, 2014, 10:50:40 am
yeah.... I think this is the part that would add that confusion to it:

"but the map you are scheduled to fight them on is not the map they hold the title for, you can force them to play on the title map instead."

That would have to be challenged before the match... if the map comes up naturally, then it still counts
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on January 20, 2014, 11:03:29 am
Quote
Hrmm, I always thought it had to be directly challenged before the onset of the match in a scrim.

That wouldn't make much sense. Once you get a title, you'll just never agree to any match to let it go. Case in point.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on January 20, 2014, 11:05:09 am
I guess the more important issue is: who cares anyway? I thought this system was dead. I never gave it any thought since its implementation.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Captain Smollett on January 20, 2014, 11:22:06 am
Oh Byron, some people like competing over this stuff, it's fun and adds depth to competitive play.

It's ok to have fun when playing video games.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on January 20, 2014, 11:46:14 am
Understand, I have fun competing. I don't even care about winning, I just love competing for the sake of competing. I guess that's why I have a hard time understanding this, having a title with your clan name over a picture seems so trivial to me. Also like I said, I thought this whole thing was dead.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 20, 2014, 12:17:33 pm
It adds a deeper meaning to scrimmages and tournament matches, just like the full season competitive scene (formerly and possibly futurely known as COGS) makes every match count towards an end result. If your team always fields a set of pilots, it is the chance for those pilots to say "I don't care who or what you bring, this is our map. No one can beat us here." And if they lose it, they have a shot of taking it back and redeeming themselves. It turns a match about today into a fight for your reputation.

Not something for everyone, and I don't know that anyone really got into the pride of it, but I can see it happening if someone really wants a map.

That said, Merry Men, I am coming after your Canyon Ambush title. This is happening. I don't care about any other map, but Canyon Ambush is mine. Be ready.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on January 20, 2014, 12:21:37 pm
come and learn the reason why we're the Masters of Ambush
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on January 20, 2014, 12:27:17 pm
Wow,  I was quite incorrect. I'm glad titles are getting some attention. A but of mobility never hurt any system.

I would like it though if we could dictate title match challenges. Off a title is at stake I think it is reasonable for the title owner to want a bo3.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 20, 2014, 12:34:20 pm
Off a title is at stake I think it is reasonable for the title owner to want a bo3.
Honestly? I think it should be mentioned before the match starts that a title is on the line, but I don't think it should be best of 3. If you are truly owner of the map, you will win every single time. I realize that's not entirely possible, but it promotes movement of the titles making them easier to steal from more dominant clans, and it makes sure that if you want to own a map, you really have to know that map completely.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on January 20, 2014, 12:48:51 pm
I'm not saying it has to be, just that the title owner should be able to choose reasonable terms for the match.

You know what, scratch that. Titles being mobile as all get out sounds fantastic. I'd love nothing more than to lose a title to a team and by the time we get a rematch with that team, the title has already moved through two other clans. I'm okay with this.

SAC, enjoy your titles.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Alistair MacBain on January 20, 2014, 01:19:33 pm
Kinda strange sammy.

The title can be taken from you, and you have to protect it. Any time your team competes in a competitive scrimmage, Cogs, or participating tournaments, on the map you hold your title to, your title is in jeopardy. Should your team lose, the team that beat you will take your title, and you will no longer be the champions of that map, or holders of the territory.

That is the ruleset thats given in the starting post.
There is not written clear that it must said beforehand that those scrim will be for a title. IT says defend your title at any point.
Theres also nothing added for bo1 or bo3.

And if i remember correctly in the end of season tournament the match between tfd and ducks wasnt bo3 either.
The matches were all bo3 and the only bo3 was a mistake and that was on day one between ducks and overwatch. I dont say its your fault, just to make clear.
We all know who to blame for that :P. (i love u ram)
The first round on day 2 was a bo1 and you fought tfd for that title. Yes you won but it was the same thing happened here regarding bo3 or bo1.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 20, 2014, 01:21:51 pm
I'm not saying it has to be, just that the title owner should be able to choose reasonable terms for the match.

You know what, scratch that. Titles being mobile as all get out sounds fantastic. I'd love nothing more than to lose a title to a team and by the time we get a rematch with that team, the title has already moved through two other clans. I'm okay with this.

SAC, enjoy your titles.
I... apologize if this comes out wrong. I dislike the internet. I honestly can't tell if you are serious here, or are fed up and don't care anymore. I would rather discuss this and know the rules than just let mob rule take the day. Ducks did initiate this whole thing, so it's only fair that you are sort of in power with regards to how the rules are set concerning titles.

So I apologize if this comes out insulting, but I'm asking earnestly if you are being serious.  :) I don't like drama in gaming and it is hard to tell the emotions behind the writing sometimes.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Tropo on January 20, 2014, 06:00:56 pm
im only over here because some one imformed me that Sacrilege owns these titltle im only here to claim them on behalf of my clan i did not seek you out. the ducks choices these maps and we won there is also on video some where rob and dan ?

(http://i.imgur.com/w58daFH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NMwTzPR.jpg)






Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mod Josie on January 20, 2014, 07:12:53 pm
Wait is this a thing now? Can we claim maps and titles without having agreed previously that they were at stake?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mr. Ace Rimmer on January 20, 2014, 09:17:48 pm
Wait is this a thing now? Can we claim maps and titles without having agreed previously that they were at stake?

It seems that is the way rules intended the system to work as written.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on January 20, 2014, 11:40:57 pm
Redria, I wasn't being sarcastic. I changed my mind after posting and so I edited myself.

Ali, I was speaking ideally, not legalistically.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 21, 2014, 02:26:56 am
so could we have a google docs file where we can see who owns what?
this will make things easier if we want to steal titles.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on January 21, 2014, 07:22:30 am
The OP is updated by Morbie with whoever currently holds the title
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on January 21, 2014, 08:07:39 am
So it'll be updated in 6 months.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 21, 2014, 08:09:08 am
So it'll be updated in 6 months.
I guess there will be a huge fight going on about who has what title, then all will collapse and we then need to arrange a new tournament for the titles.
I think this will happen after 4 months if nobody keeps track of it.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 21, 2014, 08:24:08 am
I'll make a google doc right now if need be. I just don't know if I'm the best person to run it. Especially since I want to hunt after a title myself. We need someone to maintain a visible file who is active enough to be able to update regularly, reachable enough to send updates to regularly, and impartial.

Actually, you know what, here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing)

Here is a thing. While we establish who will maintain a dynamic document (assuming that mods don't maintain this thread hard) here is a document. I don't know that I want to be the one maintaining it, but it is a stop gap. Let me know if I missed a transition somewhere between teams.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on January 21, 2014, 09:00:54 am
If nobody has any complaints on a clan member managing the system, I'd be more than happy to volunteer...
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on January 21, 2014, 09:06:53 am
wait thought thing died?

I can vouch for shink to keep it updated
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 21, 2014, 09:25:21 am
wait thought thing died?

I can vouch for shink to keep it updated
I'm just glad it isn't phoenix keeping track of it.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 21, 2014, 09:47:22 am
Message Shink and I whenever titles are taken. Include screenshots. Shink will take responsibility for updating the previously linked (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing)) document. I will check in to make sure we don't miss anything (2 sets of eyes and all that :) )Hopefully we can get that link pasted in the original post.

Presumably you do not technically have to specify that you are fighting for a title, but it really should be a courtesy to mention the title before the match. Try to keep it in mind if you own or are looking for a title.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 21, 2014, 09:53:41 am
Shink will take responsibility for updating the previously linked document.
Well I now see a reason to actually blame him when things go wrong.

I trust it that shinkurex can keep track of this.
Thank you for doing this, it makes the title tracking alot easier this way.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on January 21, 2014, 09:59:34 am
Plus, as a bonus, we can see how the title has been moving in the past. I want to see an absurdly long list of previous holders for several maps, then one map where it just never changes hands. That will sort of help indicate and show off how dominant a team is on a map. If you look at the list, it's going to be a lot more awesome to knock off the shortest "previous holders" title.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 21, 2014, 10:03:30 am
paritan rumble: Almost TFD
season 2 end tournament.
IT ONLY HAD TO BE 3 SECONDS LONGER AND WE WON :(
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on January 21, 2014, 12:12:30 pm
I'm so happy to see this getting attention.  It was always just a fun little thing.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 23, 2014, 04:24:47 am
I'm so happy to see this getting attention.  It was always just a fun little thing.
It has become serious the moment we lost to you by 3 seconds.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Jawjee on January 23, 2014, 01:39:52 pm
I'm so happy to see this getting attention.  It was always just a fun little thing.
It has become serious the moment we lost to you by 3 seconds.
T'was all my fault, and I am not afraid to say it, punish me as hard as you want, I'll accept it.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Coldcurse on January 24, 2014, 03:07:44 am
I'm so happy to see this getting attention.  It was always just a fun little thing.
It has become serious the moment we lost to you by 3 seconds.
T'was all my fault, and I am not afraid to say it, punish me as hard as you want, I'll accept it.
Who said it was your fault, It's a team based game. We all failed.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Feast on Thrones on February 01, 2014, 08:14:38 pm
This saturday Box social 01/02/2014  the Gents beat the Ducks on Duel at Dawn. I think that means we take the title? Could this be updated plz <3
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Feast on Thrones on February 01, 2014, 08:51:46 pm
This saturday Box social 01/02/2014  the Gents beat the Ducks on Duel at Dawn. I think that means we take the title? Could this be updated plz <3

Ignore this i didnt read the link. Excuse me
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Byron Cavendish on February 02, 2014, 02:12:07 am
Get out of here Feast, you drunk XD
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Frogger on February 08, 2014, 11:26:30 pm
The Ducks would like to report the following title victories:

1) On February 7, the Ducks defeated Overwatch, the reigning Battle on the Dunes title holders, on said map during a Best of 3 scrimmage.
Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/TmycSTN.jpg

2) On February 8, the Ducks defeated Sacrilege, the reigning Duel at Dawn title holders, on said map during the Saturday Box Social #4.
Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/YzWJbBg.jpg
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on February 11, 2014, 12:56:12 pm
The Spreadsheet has been updated
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on February 11, 2014, 01:03:33 pm
The Ducks would like to report the following title victories:

1) On February 7, the Ducks defeated Overwatch, the reigning Battle on the Dunes title holders, on said map during a Best of 3 scrimmage.
Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/TmycSTN.jpg

2) On February 8, the Ducks defeated Sacrilege, the reigning Duel at Dawn title holders, on said map during the Saturday Box Social #4.
Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/YzWJbBg.jpg

Relatedly, on February 5, Overwatch beat the Ducks, reigning Timekeepers of Paritan, on said map during a best of 3 scrimmage. No screenshot currently. I will re-report when I get one from the clan.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Frogger on February 11, 2014, 05:58:44 pm
Relatedly, on February 5, Overwatch beat the Ducks, reigning Timekeepers of Paritan, on said map during a best of 3 scrimmage. No screenshot currently. I will re-report when I get one from the clan.

I have a feeling this Wednesday two of our maps might be Dunes and Paritan :D
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Feast on Thrones on February 15, 2014, 06:32:18 pm
Tonight 15.02.14 the Gents beat the Ducks on Dunes
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: N-Sunderland on February 15, 2014, 07:06:08 pm
Sneaky, sneaky Gents. Even when we beat you you still manage to grab a title!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Feast on Thrones on February 16, 2014, 06:52:13 am
Sneaky, sneaky Gents. Even when we beat you you still manage to grab a title!

Indeed. Its a consolation prize :D  hehehe
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Frogger on February 17, 2014, 12:03:45 am
The Ducks would like to report the following title victory:

On February 15, the Ducks defeated SAC, the reigning Northern Fjords title holders, on said map during the Saturday Box Social #5.
Screenshot: http://imgur.com/iDcNOBy
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on February 17, 2014, 09:19:14 am
Thanks for the updates guys... I will be updating the spreadsheet momentarily... Redria, if you can find a screen of that win that'd be great (or if I could get verification from the Duck clan)....Feast, your victory was streamed, so I will just link that... will let you all know when it's up-to-date

*EDIT* Everything should be updated.... I put overwatch as Title holder for paritan, but I'd still like verification for my sake
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on February 17, 2014, 10:06:44 am
*EDIT* Everything should be updated.... I put overwatch as Title holder for paritan, but I'd still like verification for my sake
Gah I don't think we took a screenshot. Frogger actually is the one who reminded me that we technically had just taken their title. If I recall, it was streamed by Leto, so when I get home I'll try to find that video.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Frogger on February 17, 2014, 10:13:38 am
I can confirm that they did indeed take the title, though I have no screenshot handy. It should be on Leto's channel somewhere.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on February 17, 2014, 10:17:33 am
Awesome... Confirmation is all I need... I'll just link this post
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on February 26, 2014, 08:54:27 pm
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/433774300744133733/87620E5BC334D1EC6EB1FF9133E6E47F0695B792/ (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/433774300744133733/87620E5BC334D1EC6EB1FF9133E6E47F0695B792/)
February 26th, 2014, Ducks and Overwatch fought the last match of a best of 3 on Duel at Dawn. Overwatch won 5-3, taking the title Bringers of Dawn.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on March 11, 2014, 09:59:46 am
sorry... things got slightly busy... things are updated to this point... keep me informed of any changes :)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Frogger on March 12, 2014, 08:23:06 pm
The Ducks would like to report the following title victory:

On March 12, the Ducks defeated Overwatch, the reigning Paritan Rumble title holders, on said map during a Best of 3 scrimmage.

Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/UIrzWNp.jpg
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on March 12, 2014, 11:24:18 pm
updated
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on March 21, 2014, 04:23:33 pm
Of note for this weekend, it looks like if the Merry Men lose their first match to the Fancy Teamkillers, then the loser of Group A Match 2 will have a shot at taking the Canyon Ambush Title. That should be the only title that could change hands this weekend during the Sky League tournament.

(http://076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com/images/files/000/006/085/original/original.0)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Allien' on March 25, 2014, 04:06:39 pm
Just a random question. I was wondering, did we, Crimson Sky Ryders, took the title "Sultans of the Dunes" from Overwatch last saturday?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on March 25, 2014, 04:10:52 pm
Just a random question. I was wondering, did we, Crimson Sky Ryders, took the title "Sultans of the Dunes" from Overwatch last saturday?
The current Sultans of the Dunes are the Gents. Titles are kept up-to-date by Shinkurex at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing). You know, we really should get Morbie to update the OP with that link. It is much easier to maintain and works well.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Allien' on March 25, 2014, 04:13:27 pm
ahahah, Sorry xD
We were talking about you guys having a title and I came here to check. Thanks Redria :)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Feast on Thrones on April 15, 2014, 10:07:57 am
Gents beat Overwatch this weekend in the Sky League on Duel at Dawn, claiming their title!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 15, 2014, 10:12:11 am
would I be right in thinking that any of a clan's teams are eligible to win and lose titles for their clan? so the Mad Hatters' victory against the Clamour on Fjords during Sky League bracket one would mean the Gents have claimed the Ducks' title for Fjords?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cGwsCh9mc#t=1043
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 15, 2014, 10:19:30 am
Gents beat Overwatch this weekend in the Sky League on Duel at Dawn, claiming their title!
I was wondering when that one would pop up. ;)

would I be right in thinking that any of a clan's teams are eligible to win and lose titles for their clan? so the Mad Hatters' victory against the Clamour on Fjords during Sky League bracket one would mean the Gents have claimed the Ducks' title for Fjords?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cGwsCh9mc#t=1043
Yessir. Amusingly, the Gents lost on Fjords the same day that they claimed it. But OVW couldn't take it until the Gents had it and had it confirmed. So your title is safe (for now).
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 15, 2014, 10:45:33 am
Yessir. Amusingly, the Gents lost on Fjords the same day that they claimed it. But OVW couldn't take it until the Gents had it and had it confirmed. So your title is safe (for now).
now that I think about it, those matches were going on at almost exactly the same time. However I'm pretty sure you guys were already well into your Canyons game when I opened the stream after our match so the Gents probably hadn't won any titles when you beat them anyway, albeit only by a matter of minutes. ^^
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 15, 2014, 10:57:09 am
now that I think about it, those matches were going on at almost exactly the same time. However I'm pretty sure you guys were already well into your Canyons game when I opened the stream after our match so the Gents probably hadn't won any titles when you beat them anyway, albeit only by a matter of minutes. ^^
The way I personally view it is that a title can only be taken if the title has been actively transferred, and that there should be a buffer period of a day or so after a title is taken to claim it. After that point, if the original title holder loses it in a different match, the new team could claim it instead. For instance.

1. Team A holds the title Masters of Ambush.
2. Team B beats Team A on Canyon ambush in a tournament on 4/1.
3. Team C beats Team B on Canyon Ambush later in that tournament.
4. Team D beats Team A on Canyon Ambush on 4/3

In 2, Team B takes the title. In 3, it would be up for debate whether Team C could take the newly won title, or if there would be a safe period. I would lean towards safe period, meaning Team B still holds the title.
If Team B should actively claim the title, then 4 means nothing. Nobody cares.
But if Team B has not claimed the title by the time 4 happens, then I would say that Team D now owns the title.
This helps keep the titles in the hands of teams that are interested in the side game.
All of this sort of screws over Team C, but such is life.

Either way, our games were close enough to simultaneous that I wouldn't try claiming it anyways. :P
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on April 15, 2014, 11:54:20 am
Well dang. We've lost the Fjords.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 15, 2014, 12:17:55 pm
Well dang. We've lost the Fjords.
To be fair, you should have also lost Paritan Rumble last Wednesday, but I didn't think to claim it and at this point we can just let it slide. ;)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on April 15, 2014, 04:42:02 pm
apologies guys.... will update shortly.... PAX took over the weekend :))
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 15, 2014, 04:55:54 pm
apologies guys.... will update shortly.... PAX took over the weekend :))
So jealous.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Lunalee on April 22, 2014, 11:26:36 am
We should also own Duel at Dawns from last saturday, proof is on CEsports.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 22, 2014, 12:02:41 pm
We should also own Duel at Dawns from last saturday, proof is on CEsports.
Lol, OP was last updated in November.

Current holder of Duel at Dawn is the Gents from 2 Saturdays ago.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Brick Hardcastle on April 24, 2014, 04:14:00 pm
Redria has established any team from a clan can win and lose titles on behalf of the clan. I believe that because of us winning a victory against the Hatters at Duel in a scrim today, the title for Duel at Dawn should now belong to the Black Flight Squadron (or The Bully Boys, if you'd prefer the mother clan). We have screenshots if needed.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 24, 2014, 04:19:18 pm
Redria has established any team from a clan can win and lose titles on behalf of the clan. I believe that because of us winning a victory against the Hatters at Duel in a scrim today, the title for Duel at Dawn should now belong to the Black Flight Squadron (or The Bully Boys, if you'd prefer the mother clan). We have screenshots if needed.
Is this BFS's first title? Nice!
Post screenshots here. When Shink updates he includes a link to the screenshot so we can see a visual history of the titles as they move from clan to clan. It's really sort of cool. :)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 24, 2014, 05:37:33 pm
I'm not at all sure that practice scrimmages are supposed to or should be counted for title wins. The scrims we have with BFS are practices and not competitive scrims under the rules of Muse's competitive system as I understand them.

However I'm not going to argue the point, it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Mr. Ace Rimmer on April 24, 2014, 05:41:30 pm
As are the scrims that Overwatch and the Ducks have, but titles get exchanged during ours. We consider them unofficially official mainly because OVW does not like muse' scrim system.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Alistair MacBain on April 24, 2014, 05:44:38 pm
As far as i know Scrims can also be for titles.
You can be challenged for a title at any time.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Brick Hardcastle on April 24, 2014, 06:18:46 pm
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/487822565138953287/A8A6439BB2956202513B787B81F6A3BE948075DF/1024x819.resizedimage

Yeah, I was kinda under the impression that titles could change hands in scrims as Ducks and OVW seem to swap them about during their weekly scrims. I hope I haven't been too presumptuous. Hatters and Gents could very well win it back off us next week anyway.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 25, 2014, 11:31:10 am
Yeah, I was kinda under the impression that titles could change hands in scrims as Ducks and OVW seem to swap them about during their weekly scrims. I hope I haven't been too presumptuous. Hatters and Gents could very well win it back off us next week anyway.
yes, one reason that it hasn't bothered me so much. anyway, I'm not exactly annoyed by this case - my interest in pursuing this is not a grievance against BFS or even to do with a desire to keep the title.

In the past there was a similar disagreement about whether all scrims should by default be involved in Muse's scrim points system - not everyone liked the idea of all scrims being forced into association with the "serious" competitive scene. I believe in the wake of that discussion it was affirmed that a match only came into the competitive system with the prearranged knowledge & consent of the teams involved. As the titles are meant to be a part of the same structure I assumed that the same principle would be applied - titles should only change hands in scrims if both teams have agreed that titles are at stake. I didn't really think about the OvW & Ducks scrim, kind of don't see its relevance since both teams are clearly in agreement that it's OK for titles to be at stake.

Regardless of what the actual rules say, I think it is important that practice scrims should not have forced involvement in the broader competitive scene. If teams want to arrange regular fights between themselves where points/titles are at stake that's cool. But my team (and as far as I know, most others) view scrims as an opportunity to test new builds, improve our play and have fun in a more relaxed, low pressure environment. We're not playing the builds we're most comfortable with or making an all-out attempt to win, and if there was pressure to do so I think that would reduce the value we got out of the experience. Therefore I would greatly prefer that the "default" setting for a scrim is a practice without any competitive baggage.

I'm quite happy not to contest the exchange of titles in this case.
Nevertheless, I would like to see a precedent set that a team can involve itself in scrims without competitive concerns getting automatically involved. I would be quite happy to have "competitive" matches during any of the scrims my team participates in but I would like to know and to have consented to the fact that we're fighting for a title (or points, if that system ever returns to prominence).
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 25, 2014, 11:55:38 am
I can understand your concerns Velvet.

The general idea I understood was the titles were a fun addition for teams to look at. They have no bearing on any other competitive event, and are simply a moving entity that goes to whoever captures it next. Whether it be practice or scrim or testing, I see it as a fun title to have moving around constantly. So if you take your B-team or try out a new build maybe you lose the title, but next week maybe they run tests and you take it back. Or the title gets taken from them and it winds its way around the clans.

My opinion is that a team should indicate before the match that they are interested in the title so the holding team would have a little foreknowledge, or could say no. But the titles don't seem a serious part of the scene, just a fun addition to watch for kicks. ^.^
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 25, 2014, 04:50:28 pm
I can understand your concerns Velvet.

The general idea I understood was the titles were a fun addition for teams to look at. They have no bearing on any other competitive event, and are simply a moving entity that goes to whoever captures it next. Whether it be practice or scrim or testing, I see it as a fun title to have moving around constantly. So if you take your B-team or try out a new build maybe you lose the title, but next week maybe they run tests and you take it back. Or the title gets taken from them and it winds its way around the clans.

My opinion is that a team should indicate before the match that they are interested in the title so the holding team would have a little foreknowledge, or could say no. But the titles don't seem a serious part of the scene, just a fun addition to watch for kicks. ^.^
I do appreciate that which is why I'm trying not to be too aggressive or pushy about this (I also appreciate that I'm not doing so well on that front. ^^)

The fact that this is meant to be a part of the Muse competitive system is part of why I'm a bit hesitant to drop this. I'd like to maintain the principle that if an overarching competitive system is applied to scrims it should be only on an opt-in basis.

but yeah, for this case at least I've reached an amiable resolution with Brick and I'm happy for BFS to have the title without an argument. until we steal it back.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on April 25, 2014, 05:32:43 pm
The fact that this is meant to be a part of the Muse competitive system is part of why I'm a bit hesitant to drop this.
Woah, wait, what? This is... pretty unrelated to Muse's system (which won't be around much longer). :P

Anyway, if you guys sorted it out all is well. ^.^

The opt-in vs opt-out concern is certainly valid. Since we have pretty much made up the rules on this as we went (and I didn't even help make the titles in the first place) we've just treated it as casual. More fun to let the titles move fluidly than to make them bitterly contested. :D
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on April 25, 2014, 05:45:45 pm
There are two options

1. Strict rules on what counts as scrim and suddenly no one will play (what we were doing at the beginning of titles)
2. Lax rules where titles have high mobility.


I initially preferred the former, especially after everyone took the titles from the ducks during various practices, however I quickly realized that the high mobility is fun. Let the titles bounce around and have fun with them. Its better for titles to move around instead of having one team jealously guarding them.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: AbbyTheRat on April 25, 2014, 05:58:04 pm
Third Option, allow for scrims to be both. Let teams pick if the scrim will have titles change hand or not.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on April 25, 2014, 06:00:28 pm
Nope, that was option 1.


And no one would play for titles because a huge deal was made about them.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on April 25, 2014, 07:03:59 pm
redria, this is my reason for believing this was a part of the Muse competitive system.
excerpt from OP of this thread, posted by Muse employee:
Quote
As per the wishes of Squash and the ducks, we're bringing the titles into the full ruleset for competitive, and making a new thread so that all questions about them will go here, and he won't have to deal with them. Down to business!

Although it's true that with their system essentially defunct and no Muse involvement in maintenance of titles, those rules are no longer particularly relevant or binding. I just assumed they'd remain in force with no clearcut policy in place to replace them. That said, it's clear that the consensus on what the rules are is against that assumption - that acknowledged I am now simply arguing for what I think they should be.

Quote from: Sammy B. T.
1. Strict rules on what counts as scrim and suddenly no one will play (what we were doing at the beginning of titles)
I don't at all see that an opt-in system is a strict ruleset or that it would stop teams from allowing transfer of titles. For example I have every intention of agreeing with BFS that some of our scrim matches can have titles at stake. Ultimately it won't bother me too much if my clan loses titles while experimenting during practices but I think it would be nicer to be able to draw a distinction between when a scrim is a practice or a competition.

I suppose it is true that titles will be more mobile if all scrims count and that does stop teams from hoarding titles - although to do that they'd have to avoid competing in tournaments, too. However I don't think titles changing hands regularly is inherently a good thing - while total stagnation is bad, I'd rather see fewer, more hotly contested title transfers than regular and rather meaningless ones.

The primary benefit of the titles is, as I see it, to add some excitement and put something extra at stake in otherwise uninteresting matches, as well as giving clans a badge of honour as they have a (questionable) claim at being the best players on that map. That works perfectly in scrims where the teams have agreed it will be a title fight - you get an intense match because the teams are a little more invested as their pride is on the line, with a somewhat tangible result in that the title could publicly change hands. But if there's no specific agreement, you get a situation where every scrim is a title fight, and is therefore taken seriously to the detriment of casual play, experimentation & practices, or every scrim is a title fight so titles change hands too often, too easily and therefore don't really matter to anyone (current situation).

I think your claim that there would be few title fights is most likely correct. But that's more because of a broader stagnation of the competitive scene  - in particular scrims, which are much less respected than tournaments as competitive events - than anything else. And the solution to that is not, in my eyes, to force competitive and practice scrims to be the same thing.

However I can see the appeal of keeping the titles casual rather than particularly competitive. I guess we have tournaments for serious matches, if people prefer to keep it that way there's no harm if titles are a bit of unimportant fun on the side.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: AbbyTheRat on April 25, 2014, 07:13:16 pm
your option 1 was strict rules..

I'm saying that scrim should be what the team agrees with each other, not strict rules. Option 3 is Scrim don't have to follow any strict rules just whatever rules the team want to encourage for that match. I was going to say enforce but I think encourage is a better phasing
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on May 03, 2014, 12:10:57 pm
Any reason this thread isn't stickied?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on May 03, 2014, 12:17:30 pm
Actually we may need to just make a new thread with updated rules and such if Morbie isn't taking care of it :P

(and get that stickied)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Urz on May 03, 2014, 12:21:02 pm
I requested the thread be unstickied recently, as it seems unreasonable for a side contest between some groups to hold permanent precedence over actual organized events.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Sammy B. T. on May 03, 2014, 11:43:49 pm
Well I believe that is a mistake. The Flotsam Dynasty Campaign was an "actual organized event," and the title system can apply to any group in functionally any event therefore it makes sense for it to be stickied at the top.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morblitz on May 03, 2014, 11:46:48 pm
Why not? They don't impact the larger scheme of organised events, and people seemed to be enjoying having tangible things that can be passed around from clan to clan, and it's not limited just to people who win events - titles are vulnerable ALL the time, which is exciting! Besides, events don't often give out rewards, and this is something that players can actually hold on to, to show that they've earned it. It gives people something else to fight for when its outside of organised events.

It's also a Muse sanctioned community activity, and I don't think they unsanctioned it. Seriously, what's the harm?
I mean, if people want, it can be developed to be a bit more structure if people feel it's too loose at the moment. But it's not really impacting on anything at all.

It isn't only available to "some" groups, it's available to everyone who wishes to be involved. That's what I feel is great about it.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Urz on May 04, 2014, 01:35:38 am
Stickies should be reserved for maintaining the visibility of important topics which are also at risk of being buried for low post counts (eg tournament info or signups threads).

Much like the tipping threads, if players continue to participate in titles, the thread will stay near the top on it's own merit.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Captain Smollett on May 04, 2014, 01:49:10 am
Who's to say what's an important topic?  Clearly this is important to some people. I hardly see a problem with this being stickied.

Actually to me it seems precisely the type of thing to be stickied since it's a sub event that's always ongoing. Keeping it stickied makes it visible to new players and clans new to the competitive scene.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Urz on May 04, 2014, 02:23:01 am
Who's to say what's an important topic?  Clearly this is important to some people. I hardly see a problem with this being stickied.
If every thread that was "important to some people" was stickied, we would have a full screen of them.

As I said in my previous post, stickies should be reserved for (this is my opinion) threads that are both important and need their visibility maintained. The importance of titles could be debated, but as a normal thread it's visibility will be determined by continued participation in the title system. That seems pretty fair to me.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Keyvias on May 04, 2014, 03:56:00 am
Hey Guys,

This looks like a hotly debated topic, but I'll be honest it's 3 am on a Saturday for me so I won't be able to give this the full attention it deserves.

I'm going to leave it stickied as of this moment, this may be changed in the future, but since there are not a lot of stickied events at the moment I don't believe it will cause too much confusion or annoyance.
I do have a couple of questions for when I check out this topic tomorrow.

How often do title fights currently happen?
When was the last time someone challenged for one?
When was the last time one of them changed hands?
As a clan do you want to take part in something like this?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Morblitz on May 04, 2014, 04:19:44 am
Unfortunately the thread got de-railed a bit. However it looks like the last title to officially change hands (as someone put in a claim for it here in the thread) was on the 24-25th of April by Brick Hardcastle representing BFS. So not actually that long ago - it's on the previous page.

From looking at the thread, the titles do seem to be pretty active. Here's a quote from Brick regarding the title they picked up that day:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/487822565138953287/A8A6439BB2956202513B787B81F6A3BE948075DF/1024x819.resizedimage

Yeah, I was kinda under the impression that titles could change hands in scrims as Ducks and OVW seem to swap them about during their weekly scrims. I hope I haven't been too presumptuous. Hatters and Gents could very well win it back off us next week anyway.

I take this to suggest that people who currently hold titles do expect to have to defend them in the future.
I hope I didn't take you out of context here Brick and that you don't mind that I use you as an example, you basically sum up what I'm trying to say here. Let me know.

I also know that the Ducks and Overwatch have a weekly scrim and titles are often involved. I think a match involving a title may have actually happened as recently as today. Can someone from Ducks or Overwatch let us know if a title was involved, taken, or defended?

We do however have an issue as to what constitutes a match where titles can be challenged for, such as practice scrims vs official competitive scrims. This is something we are attempting to define, but so far, titles have been involved in both. I think someone (Redria?) did call for a new (and stickied) thread.

Also, Keyvias, there are difficulties in answering your question because there are some events that do not acknowledge the title system, so titles cannot be fought for during those events. What that means is that the players have to organise the competition for titles themselves without a competitive structure. Which I think people (big thanks to Shink here) have been doing successfully, if a little wonkily (which is understandable). Also, I think players get pretty fatigued while events are happening, so if titles aren't able to be in play between event-matches, they might not be in play during the week because people may be taking a bit of a break.

I speak for myself here, but personally I love watching the titles change hands. I don't play a lot now because of grad school so it's a cool way to see what clans are been upto and what kind of successes they've had.

It just seems like a fun and rewarding way for clans to fight each other. And it's an officially sanctioned system.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on May 04, 2014, 04:39:40 am
thanks Keyvias. I think it's a good habit not to make decisions based on the input of individual members, whatever their role within the community or competitive scene.

To answer your questions:
Quote
How often do title fights currently happen?
afaik Ducks and OvW fight for titles every week, from this point forward the Mad Hatters will most probably agree to fight for titles in our weekly scrim with BFS, too.
Quote
When was the last time someone challenged for one?
April 24, 2014, I think, although the Ducks and OvW may have fought over titles in their scrims since.
Quote
When was the last time one of them changed hands?
April 24, 2014, Mad Hatters lost Duel at Dawn to BFS. Note that the last couple of weeks have been quiet as the Sky League just ended; for various reasons Mad Hatters were unable to scrim BFS again this week or we'd have tried reclaiming the title. Nevertheless it is true that this system has been forgotten a little by a lot of clans. Having a little chat with tournament organisers to get them behind the "ambush" system for tournament maps would be helpful in ensuring a few more title fights. More importantly, we need a properly maintained, official record of title owners - it's hard to have a title fight when you don't know who owns which title.
Quote
As a clan do you want to take part in something like this?
Yes, it's a nice idea that's been entertaining in its current form and has got a lot of potential to develop further in the future. My hope is that at Muse you'll eventually implement a system for "clan trophies" to be displayed on a clan's ingame page and these titles would be one of them. Hopefully this would be paired with in-game automated scrim functionality too, which is as I can see it the only way that the official scrim points system could really get off the ground.

For the time being, I'd appreciate some clarity in the rules as to whether titles can be won in any match between 2 clans or whether there needs to be an explicit challenge first. That lack of clarity was a slight cause of contention previously. I'd be happy with either option, as long as there is a set in stone rule so I can be sure whether or not any scrim I go into could involve a title exchange.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Allien' on May 10, 2014, 09:21:28 am
Sooo... The list of the title holders is not updated I see.

I do have a idea for this. I would be nice to have the titles incorporated to the game, I believe, now that we have the clans as well.
This is just an idea.
-Have the current holders visible;
-allow clans to challenge holders;
-if they agree on it, give the power of swapping the title to the leaders .
-Title could count for the clan's leader board or rank?

Don't know, may require more though than this  ::)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Alistair MacBain on May 10, 2014, 09:50:12 am
Latest title holders:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXoXqQWAhisdGR2Rm0xT0tISkcxR2FhbHpGc2NRSVE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Updated by shink and redria?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Allien' on May 10, 2014, 10:08:52 am
Nah, apparently the older of duel is BFS. That's one that i know, but more need to change I think, I didn't bother look at the other pages :P
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on May 10, 2014, 10:19:16 am
Shink was taking care of it. He's been online as recently as yesterday it looks like, but hasn't updated since Sky League started. I just made the document, so I have editing powers even if I haven't done any editing myself.

So several things here.

1 is to keep the titles up-to-date. Possibly a new thread for it too.
2 is just an fyi.
3 is a way we could make it visible in-game, which would be pretty cool. With clans being recognized in-game now, I feel like it could be made to automatically transfer and update in-game if certain pre-reqs are met in a lobby.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Alistair MacBain on May 10, 2014, 10:31:24 am
Dunno what happens with them but if needed i can keep things up to date for now ...
If shink and you (redria) miss time. Dont mind updating it if thats whats wanted for now ;)
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on May 10, 2014, 10:40:55 am
in-game titles would be awesome.

btw the Hatters beat BFS on Duel yesterday to retake that title for the Gents (having agreed that our scrims count for titles), but I forgot to take a screenshot.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Brick Hardcastle on May 29, 2014, 08:18:13 am
in-game titles would be awesome.

btw the Hatters beat BFS on Duel yesterday to retake that title for the Gents (having agreed that our scrims count for titles), but I forgot to take a screenshot.

I can confirm this is true. However, BFS won it back the following week and we currently hold the Duel at Dawn title.

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/486699836913361558/9619FE27E931BEC202E766FD2F33E60C3E7668C8/

I think my game was being a bit screwy and I didn't get the score screen, but you can see the Hatter team giving the ggs.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on May 29, 2014, 10:14:11 am
we're getting into a good habit of swapping. ^^
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on May 29, 2014, 10:34:54 am
I really need to update the google doc T.T .....

*Edit* Should be up to date now... Bringers of Dawn is apparently the most sought out title :))
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on May 29, 2014, 11:49:47 am
reset titles and have another event?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Tanya Phenole on May 29, 2014, 12:54:08 pm
reset titles and have another event?

Someone claimed titles are useless and unreasonable. Let me check my screenshots to recall who was that....
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on May 29, 2014, 01:23:52 pm
reset titles and have another event?

Someone claimed titles are useless and unreasonable. Let me check my screenshots to recall who was that....

there is no need to be sarcastic. the titles are useless because we dont need to fight over a title to get a scrimmage. they are unreasonable because they changed the then event rules by allowing teams to dodge certain maps
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Hunter. on May 30, 2014, 09:26:28 am
reset titles and have another event?
I really like this idea, maybe sort titles out as seasons? fight for them over a set period of time, owners of the them when they reset get a permanent in game badge!
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: redria on May 30, 2014, 10:23:18 am
reset titles and have another event?
I really like this idea, maybe sort titles out as seasons? fight for them over a set period of time, owners of the them when they reset get a permanent in game badge!
Old Overwatch members already have a badge for winning the Flotsam Dynasty back when these started. :P

I don't know why we would need to reset titles other than to get them out of the hands of teams that have been less active.

A reset of the rules would not be a bad thing though. I would support a team going through and developing rules that make them fun and meaningful without being a burden.

The concept of ambushing, while interesting, is challenging in longer events simply because the goal with longer events is to create even playing fields and make good matches. The idea of a team being able to change something that has been scheduled for days (if not weeks) 5 minutes before the match starts is sort of silly.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on May 30, 2014, 11:01:19 am
i think most confusion comes from not knowing who has what title
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on May 30, 2014, 11:43:53 am
let me actually update the OP to make it more clear where one can find that info
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on July 05, 2014, 07:57:41 pm
Updated the google doc to reflect the Ryders victory over the Gentlemen on dunes. apologies for the delay... have been busy :))
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Lueosi on August 02, 2014, 02:19:17 pm
Hi,

MM forfeited the Rydr/MM scrimmage over the Labyrinth title, so Rydr claim that title until our rematch. If you want me to I can upload screenshots with timestamps to prove it.

Regards
Lueosi
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: RearAdmiralZill on August 02, 2014, 02:39:36 pm
Anyone who wants our "canyon" title can have it too. This system is frankly not worth its trouble to just scrimmage people on a friendly basis.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Imagine on August 02, 2014, 03:33:01 pm
Hi,

MM forfeited the Rydr/MM scrimmage over the Labyrinth title, so Rydr claim that title until our rematch. If you want me to I can upload screenshots with timestamps to prove it.

Regards
Lueosi
So, while I don't particularly find map titles relevant, nor do I speak for my team here, but I find it interesting that a team can challenge for a title, not show up to play the match, and then challenge for it again only to claim the title when this time the other team can't get enough people together.

What's to stop someone from just throwing out challenges left and right to literally everyone and just waiting for forfeit map claims while never having to bother to play themselves since there's literally no repercussion to not showing up yourself?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Lueosi on August 02, 2014, 03:43:53 pm
Hi imagine,

What's to stop someone from just throwing out challenges left and right to literally everyone and just waiting for forfeit map claims while never having to bother to play themselves since there's literally no repercussion to not showing up yourself?
in this particular case we together agreed for a scrim a week in advance. The match-up was canceled an hour before the scrim. (It doesn't matter too much but at the time of our scrim there were at least enough MM members online to put a full team together.) Canceling is fine but our whole team showed up at that time already, it was imho too short.

Regards
Lueosi
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: RearAdmiralZill on August 02, 2014, 04:45:11 pm
We showed up the previous week, ready to go, and you guys simply didnt show up, with no warning. While we didn't call any foul at the time, it's a touch hypocritical to then say us giving you warning instead of just not being there was "too short."

That'll be my piece.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Lueosi on August 02, 2014, 06:54:19 pm
Hi Zill,

interesting, I was asking about a scrim that day (silver playoffs) but got no response so I assumed you couldn't get crew for that day. On the other hand we were there, all of us, so a PM would just solved it.

Regards
Lueosi
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Surette on August 04, 2014, 05:14:41 pm
yeah, we were all ready to go for the scrim on the 26th that Rydr never showed up to, so I guess knock yourselves out if you really want the title that badly.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Lueosi on August 04, 2014, 05:55:47 pm
yeah, we were all ready to go for the scrim on the 26th that Rydr never showed up to
(I) got no response so I assumed you couldn't get crew for that day.
so I guess knock yourselves out if you really want the title that badly.
On the other hand we were there, all of us, so a PM would just solved it.

Please read my posts carefully. Rydr still claiming the title but already asked MM for a rematch. When I propose a date and get no response I assume the suggestion is not good or my message wasn't read yet. But I really wonder why nobody asked any of the Rydrs who were online the 26th where they are.

So please update the titles and of course I'm looking forward to a proper match (which will happen hopefully next Saturday the 9th).

Regards
Lueosi
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Velvet on August 04, 2014, 06:15:00 pm
the rules say absolutely nothing about forfeits. There shouldn't be a title changing hands if a match hasn't been played. If you are desperate for the title then negotiate a rematch (although I wouldn't blame MM for refusing to scrim with you at this point).
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Dementio on August 05, 2014, 03:57:24 am
So essentially it is fair to claim a title and then refuse to play with everyone, effectively keeping the title forever until the clan ceases to exist?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Dutch Vanya on August 05, 2014, 06:53:52 am
These titles are a thing people care about?
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Deltajugg on August 05, 2014, 07:32:58 am
These titles are a thing people care about?

From what I can see for some Rydr it's that one toy that a kid from the neighbourhood has, so he needs it as well.
On the other side the kid doesn't play with a toy at all, but it won't let go of it.


I don't even care about the titles, but this thread became an inappropiate and immature fight between clans that both should know better than to fight with eachother because of something as meaningless as those map titles. Let's get the facts straight, based on what I can read and what I observed.

Rydr and MM representatives, for this conversation I'll call them Mr. R and Mr. M, once sat in chat and discussed a challenge for the title, as Mr. R got the Dunes title by a coincidence and wanted more. Mr. R suggested the dates, but Mr. M was unresponsive about them, Mr. R assumed that this particular date (26th apparently) was not fitting for Mr. M, but Mr. M seemed to treat it as a set date, and claims that Mr. R never showed up for the match. That I can confirm as a lie, for it was saturday, and Mr. R has either practice, skrim or tournament every day apart from Monday and Tuesday, and he's playing matches every evening any other day of the week. Mr. R was in the game that day, and, if there was indeed a match on that day, I blame miscommunication on a set date between both men, at the same time being surprised why Mr.M didn't contact Mr.R in game to resolve the issue of him not showing up. It seems like Mr. R claims  to set up the date for another week, I know Mr. M was aware of that, but he called off the match 1 hour before the match was supposed to start. Mr. R set up the server, brought people, saw Mr. M in game with enough people as well, contacted them and asked why they're not showing up. Once he heard about the reschedule 1 hour earlier, Mr. R took that as a last second forfeit from a match set up for a week.

From my perspective of this story:
Mr.M should contact Mr.R at the first date set up for the match (26th)
Mr.M shouldn't call off the match last second.
Mr.R shouldn't even care about titles.
Mr.R shouldn't claim the title by a forfeit and start childlish arguments on the forums because of it.
Both Mr.R and Mr.M should claim that the date is set only when both sides clearly say so, and make sure that both sides agree on a set date.
Both Mr.R and Mr.M should grow up, stop playing a blame-game on the forums over titles that noone knew about for like a year or so and noone cared about them even then, apologize to eachother and be as friendly as this game's community is supposed to be.
And if someone ever ends up challenging one another for a title, setting up a skrim etc. please do so in a friendly manner, without making everyone hate one another and throwing a tantrum over the pettiest of things.

That is all.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Llamas Unite on August 05, 2014, 08:15:21 am
Although tbh I'm almost more confused by the Mr.M/ Mr R analogy, I agree completely with everything that Delta's said. The fact that a post like that is even necessary over something so childish is, whilst not as surprising as I would like, disappointing.
Whilst I am personally of the opinion that the Title system holds little worth, and due to its non-use in the competitive scene it should be scrapped entirely, hopefully we can find a mature solution to this...
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Shinkurex on August 05, 2014, 09:03:53 am
Hey guys,

I've updated the spreadsheet to date. I will not comment on any of the above argument, however the Masters of Ambush title is up for grabs at this moment for any of those who would like it.

Clear Skies,
Shink
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: RearAdmiralZill on August 05, 2014, 09:04:17 am
Anyone who wants our "canyon" title can have it too. This system is frankly not worth its trouble to just scrimmage people on a friendly basis.

As of August 2nd, Mr. M pulled his group out of the title system, while also forgoing any care in the word about it after that date.

Making posts about happenings without knowing the entire situation can also easily shine a bad light on respective groups involved. All the reason why I have refrained. I'd politely request the involved parties do the same. Feel free to PM me directly regarding the situation if anyone feels inclined. Thanks.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Hillerton [PC] on August 05, 2014, 03:41:05 pm
We feels like the situation got out of hand quickly, which wasn't something we intended.
In our opinion, the title system was just a fun clan related mini-game, something to be looked at like we do with WANTED.
We thought it would be fun to actually play with other clans for these titles and by no means did we anticipate or want the controversy that this has caused.

On behalf of Ryder I would like to apologies for our part in this.

Kind regards
Rydrs
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Skrimskraw on August 06, 2014, 04:41:29 am
maybe it is time to lock this system or change it.
Title: Re: Titles, who has them, and what they do.
Post by: Hillerton [PC] on August 08, 2014, 04:34:41 am
I have to agree with skim here as people (at least several rydrs I know) care more than expected it might be a good idea to either create some clear rules or just kill the system entirely