Guns Of Icarus Online

Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Jazzza on March 03, 2013, 02:22:16 am

Title: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Jazzza on March 03, 2013, 02:22:16 am
I suggest a feature to request to swap/change class of another player and to swap to be captain.

Similar to that of PlanetSide 2 where you can swap positions in a vehicle and if someone is in that position, it will ask them if they would like to switch.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Lord Dick Tim on March 03, 2013, 02:26:06 am
I'd like the option for players to switch their class after a ships death maybe, the work around for this is logging in then out.
But anything that would have to do with asking to switch roles with another person I'm completely against.  My ships are dictatorships, I'll not have ratlings pestering me with requests to change rather then manning their stations and doing as they should be.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Jazzza on March 03, 2013, 02:29:29 am
I'd like the option for players to switch their class after a ships death maybe, the work around for this is logging in then out.

That sounds good.

But anything that would have to do with asking to switch roles with another person I'm completely against.  My ships are dictatorships, I'll not have ratlings pestering me with requests to change rather then manning their stations and doing as they should be.

It could be a setting to stop people sending requests to you.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Lord Dick Tim on March 03, 2013, 02:31:05 am
Touché salesmen.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Pickle on March 03, 2013, 04:56:58 am
It would be convenient to be able to do that in the pre-match lobby, to stop the hot-shoe shuffle when there's a possibility that another player may descend into the vacant slot and wreck the crew's plans.  I don't see it being that useful during an active match.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 01:25:10 pm
Match lobby shuffling is something we're looking into.  Oftentimes we'll reach a completely full match, including spectators, and we'll have no way to swap spots.  We'll see.

I'm personally against you switching roles during a match at any point.  This includes if you accidentally join a match as a pilot.  This means your captain readied with you as pilot or you switched to pilot after the ready.  If you quickmatch with pilot selected, it will only try to fill you in a captain position.  So this is entirely human error at play here.  Switching during a match offers too large of a tactical advantage and dramatically alters gameplay in the middle of a match.  I want some of the tactical and strategic decision making to be made and set in stone before a match has started.  Changing roles to me is like changing ships or weapons.  I feel it's that big of an impact.

If it becomes a seriously problem we'll look into it but as of now, it goes against a clear design goal that we had from the beginning.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Pickle on March 06, 2013, 02:18:28 pm
Awkm.. does that mean that if I end up with two or three Gunners following mid-match joiners, that means that the second/third did not arrive as a result of choosing Quick Match and therefore must have deliberately chosen to join my ship after seeing the crew roster and joining out of spite/ignorance?

Or does Quick Match only balance Pilots?
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 02:21:33 pm
Awkm.. does that mean that if I end up with two or three Gunners following mid-match joiners, that means that the second/third did not arrive as a result of choosing Quick Match and therefore must have deliberately chosen to join my ship after seeing the crew roster and joining out of spite/ignorance?

Or does Quick Match only balance Pilots?

If I specifically join your match (not quick join) we don't do any filtering.  You can't see who's in your game from the match list screen anyway.  We're assuming that you know you want to join that match and know what's going on inside.

If I use Quick Join, it'll do the pilot thing and then it'll try it's best to only allow only 2 of a certain class to be on a ship.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Pickle on March 06, 2013, 02:40:00 pm
So Quick Join could result in two Engineers or two Gunners, but shouldn't result in three of the same..
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 02:57:55 pm
So Quick Join could result in two Engineers or two Gunners, but shouldn't result in three of the same..

Again, the system will do it's best to make that happen.  But there may be instances where it you get 3 of the same thing.  Remember, we can only try. Otherwise you may never get into a match with Quick Join and that's not the point of quick join.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: HamsterIV on March 06, 2013, 03:19:31 pm
Out of curiosity why is the default class for a new player gunner? Considering that the average captain would want a second engineer more than a second gunner this leads to a lot of new players getting cursed at when they hit quick join after starting up the game for the first time.

I am pretty sure gunner is the the default class any way. After I get my initial cursing out of the way I some times ask the powder monkey why they chose to go 2nd gunner on my ship. The most common response seems to be "Dunno, I just hit quick join."
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 04:42:50 pm
Out of curiosity why is the default class for a new player gunner? Considering that the average captain would want a second engineer more than a second gunner this leads to a lot of new players getting cursed at when they hit quick join after starting up the game for the first time.

The captain may want an engineer, but the first time player has no idea what the hell an engineer needs to do.  It's that simple.

Gunner is the most approachable class because it's just a turret FPS.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Pickle on March 06, 2013, 04:54:56 pm
Out of curiosity why is the default class for a new player gunner? Considering that the average captain would want a second engineer more than a second gunner this leads to a lot of new players getting cursed at when they hit quick join after starting up the game for the first time.

The captain may want an engineer, but the first time player has no idea what the hell an engineer needs to do.  It's that simple.

Gunner is the most approachable class because it's just a turret FPS.

For someone without a clue, there's no difference between Gunner and Engineer.  Either can shoot, and if you don't know what ammunition is it doesn't make a difference.

I'd ask you to review this default, and change it to Engineer.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Shinkurex on March 06, 2013, 05:01:21 pm
Actually, I agree with Hubert... The default loadout for an engie, is ideal to quick join, and get on the spot instructions on what to do... With gunner, you may not have the proper loadout for the weapons on the ship...
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 05:07:25 pm
For someone without a clue, there's no difference between Gunner and Engineer.  Either can shoot, and if you don't know what ammunition is it doesn't make a difference.

I'd ask you to review this default, and change it to Engineer.

Unfortunately, no.  We will not change this.

Giving someone a mallet and extinguisher won't make them more inclined to do engineering stuff.  They will just jump on a gun.  Why make them fail by not giving them all the Gunner perks from the get go?

The engineering game has an extremely high learning curve.  The most common repair, HP repair, has a cooldown—we know this but no one else does.  Every other game, repairing something means hitting it over and over again until HP goes up with each hit.  Because of what players have previously been trained in, our engineering game is already setting them up to fail.  Noobs will keep hitting the component and not understand why the HP isn't increasing while the cooldown takes place, or they just don't notice.  Not until the cooldown finishes can more HP be added.  In the worst case, the noob can stay whacking the component for a long time.  This is detrimental for both the noob as well as the crew.  Everyone is failing here and inevitably the noob will be blamed and yelled at for being a shitty engineer.  The only case where previous knowledge is useful is when rebuilding.  However, tools have different specs for HP and rebuild.  That's how the engineering game was designed.  It's fairly high level strategic/tactical play vs. twitch reactions of a gunner.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Pickle on March 06, 2013, 05:22:38 pm
I think this is something else we'll agree to disagree on.  I can teach someone to Engineer if they have a spanner and a mallet, but not if they don't - no matter how many Gunner perks they have and aren't using.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Helmic on March 06, 2013, 05:30:31 pm
Yeah, gunners need to have the right ammo to be of any more use than an engineer, quickjoining doesn't give you the luxury of choosing your loadout (even though it should while the game is loading, give you a map of the ship and your crewmates with options to change your loadout and class) and an engineer can fix everything that's inevitably exploding and/or on fire with very basic explanation from the captain.  If there's an issue with how engineers function, that's something that can be fixed with the on-screen tutorial messages or the UI.  Change the sound effect or something so it doesn't sound like it's "fixing" anything if you whack it while it's on cooldown, give more feedback so its easier for a new user to understand the repair mechanics.  If there's an understanding that new players are by default engineers, then there's not going to be any more cursing than there is already when a clueless gunner hops on the main gun and misses every shot while everything else is exploding.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: HamsterIV on March 06, 2013, 05:45:51 pm
I bring up the default because I originally thought that all the level 1 gunners joining my ship were being selfish. They wanted to do the cool job and leave the Mallet whacking to some one else. Since I learned they were following the default settings, I have let up a bit on them. I still rage inside when my ship is on fire and my one AI engineer just got swapped out for a gunner.

My new player experience involved a few hours on practice mode then joining my first game as an engineer (where I felt i would contribute the least harm to my team). I still sucked and we died a lot but my first captain's response to "Hello this is my first game" was "that is fine you are more useful than the AI."

I would prefer new players start as engineer because:
1) What makes a good engineer can be explained verbally while what makes a good gunner must be learned from experience, and that experience can be gained from gungeneering.
2) It would cause less animosity from captains toward the new crew.
3) Giving a new player the tools to fix their own gun would allow them to be more independently effective, rather than increasing the work load (and animosity) of other players .
4) There is a greater need for engineers than gunners on most ship builds.

Keep in mind the first captain and crew a new player flies with is as much a part of the new player experience as the popup tutorial text. Hearing "Oh good we need some one like you" is preferable to "Oh god why did you join me ship?"
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Helmic on March 06, 2013, 09:33:43 pm
Alternatively, you could make gunners a bit more useful so that having 2 gunners and 1 engineer could be beneficial as well.
Title: Re: Request to swap positions/classes
Post by: Shinkurex on March 06, 2013, 11:02:55 pm
Alternatively, you could make gunners a bit more useful so that having 2 gunners and 1 engineer could be beneficial as well.

Again you wound me.... Next time your on, and you see me, come join the game... I'll show you the gunners usefulness