Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: SixSillySins on August 11, 2013, 04:38:04 am
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
You have Engineers that don't know what the hell a Repair cool down timer is. So they'll sit there hitting stuff over and over again thinking they're actually helping.
You have Pilots forgetting to press the '1' key so their abilities aren't running 24/7 "WHY DO THE ENGINES KEEP BREAKING!!" Ummm maybe because you're using moonshine constantly...
You have Engineers that think they're gunners and let the ship die because they were too busy shooting.
You have pilots that don't know where the guns are on the ship. (for example a galleon) They'll fly straight at the enemy instead of to it's side so it's weapons can actually fire at them.
It's a cool game and all but it feels like the only way to have fun is with some friends while you're buzzed. Other wise It's just a headache to play with randoms. :/
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This seems to be apparent with the recent influx of players due to "Youtube Personalities" namely the yogs cast. If I would recommend a solution I would recommend joining a higher level lobby, you will most likely have a better time, namely because in higher level lobbies more will be expected of you. If you point out you're new people will be willing to help you out if you're willing to learn.
This is an iteration of various posts by different people on threads of the same nature, I do not claim ownership over any and all posts summarized above.
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Not all randoms are that bad. Try moving up from the Beginner games to those where the more experienced players are.. this could of course lead to a new line, "You have beginner players that don't realise that there's more than just beginner matches" ;)
Could be the time of day your playing. It's the school holidays, there's a large number of new players many of whom are 12-14 years old and are getting frustrated because it's not a nice, easy game they can win by button-bashing. The steep learning curve that rewards thinking about how you play is what keeps the core players playing. But it's also a frustration for others.
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In the past couple of days - I've been sworn at twice for informing a (different) crew that the top slot gets captains chat and the player should change role or place, while a player in captain role sits in slot 3 shouting "F:ck off I'm the captain!"
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In the past couple of days - I've been sworn at twice for informing a (different) crew that the top slot gets captains chat and the player should change role or place, while a player in captain role sits in slot 3 shouting "F:ck off I'm the captain!"
If the Captain isn't going to be the one steering (i.e. the pilot is in slot 2-4), I won't join that crew and a I won't join that team as another Captain. It's just not practical to rely team tactics through an intermediary. It is possible to use Party chat to get round this, but it's rarely worth the effort.
It's a control thing.. "I want to engineer/gun and I want *this* ship and loadout, but I don't want to fly it and I don't trust anyone enough to ask them to choose the loadout I want."
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I feel a...
(http://static.tumblr.com/3nn4bfn/XVEm3hbvf/grinds-my-gears11.jpg)
Coming on.
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If the Captain isn't going to be the one steering (i.e. the pilot is in slot 2-4), I won't join that crew and a I won't join that team as another Captain.
In both cases I was on the other team.
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I feel a...
(http://static.tumblr.com/3nn4bfn/XVEm3hbvf/grinds-my-gears11.jpg)
Coming on.
welp I'd add the "I refuse to use team chat because I'm on skype with my mate the <insert crew role here>"
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well, the public games hurt *insert a work animal*, but there are some tricks to dodge problems.
1. As previously mentioned, join higher level lobbies. As much as we'd love to have everyone learn the game, there's simply not enough manhours in the community to try to train everyone. Still, the ones we see joining higher-level lobbies do get better chances at a good game.
2. Avoid full 1-3 level crew. One or two newbies is manageable with tutoring, but a full swabbie-crew most likely will end up hurting themselves or the captain ragequits. v.v
3. Clantags. At least the major and/or active clans are sort of an quality-degree. While not failproof, going to crew with some clanners is still better than completely randoms. Even a crew of lvl 1 with the same clantag means they are sticking together, at least in theory.
4. Join a clan yourself. There are many with no obligations, and having a recognized tag helps getting into good play. Clans also organize practices and usually fly together, which adds awesome. Note, though, that then your work will have to be up to snuff, too. You got a rep to hold! ^^
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Rather than look for clan tags I'd advise anyone to find players you can crew well with and play with them often.
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
Luckaly an easy solution is on hand: Press "X" and ask them why they do this and advise them not to.
You have Engineers that don't know what the hell a Repair cool down timer is. So they'll sit there hitting stuff over and over again thinking they're actually helping.
Chances are that these are relatively new players, might I recommend you press "X" and teach them the most efficient way to do their "circuit"
You have Pilots forgetting to press the '1' key so their abilities aren't running 24/7 "WHY DO THE ENGINES KEEP BREAKING!!" Ummm maybe because you're using moonshine constantly...
Perhaps a new player, have you tried pressing "X" and educate them on the use of their abilities?
You have Engineers that think they're gunners and let the ship die because they were too busy shooting.
Sounds like tunnelvision. Maybe this is a good time to press "X" and warn them of components in need of repair.
You have pilots that don't know where the guns are on the ship. (for example a galleon) They'll fly straight at the enemy instead of to it's side so it's weapons can actually fire at them.
Perhaps a lapse in judgement, tactical manouver or a rookies pilot's error. I assume you pressed "X" and asked him why he performed such a manouver?
It's a cool game and all but it feels like the only way to have fun is with some friends while you're buzzed. Other wise It's just a headache to play with randoms. :/
Have you tried pressing "X" before the match starts and work out some tactics?
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
Luckaly an easy solution is on hand: Press "X" and ask them why they do this and advise them not to.
In the past couple of days - I've been sworn at twice for informing a (different) crew that the top slot gets captains chat and the player should change role or place, while a player in captain role sits in slot 3 shouting "F:ck off I'm the captain!"
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In the past couple of days - I've been sworn at twice for informing a (different) crew that the top slot gets captains chat and the player should change role or place, while a player in captain role sits in slot 3 shouting "F:ck off I'm the captain!"
Perhaps some undue sarcasm on my part there. It's frustrating when meeting players unwilling to even consider feedback of any kind.
Still, I'd very much like to believe most problems can be solved with a bit of patience and a friendly chat :)
I see so many people rage about others in just as many different games without even having asked the guy why he is doing what he does.
I wish for Guns of Icarus to be different in that regard. And so far it has been, let's try and keep it that way!
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Snip
I preceded to press X to try and communicate with my team to no avail. They still did these things over and over to the point where I had to find another game.
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Snip
I preceded to press X to try and communicate with my team to no avail. They still did these things over and over to the point where I had to find another game.
I understand frustration with people who refuse to listen, but frankly, if you start blaming the game for the people that play it, you're going to run into a lot of issues playing any multiplayer game. If you feel like you have a good grasp on the game, turn off the beginner matches and find some with some mid to high level folks, might have an easier time to communicate there.
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Let me add one more major issue to that list:
There's a lot of people that DO NOT listen. And the community guidelines are about me being nice to them. But quite frankly I think they are assholes and treat them as such. Now for a muse developer: I reported quite a few people for not listening, what happened with those?
Also, this is a bleeding problem. While when I send out a corrective message in higher level games, people will shut up and let my target have it. But when I'm in a lower level game, they even go as far as to ready up so I cannot push the guy to leave or worse yet: they back him up.
I am often the captain and I get regular complaints from people that I'm always yelling at them, I send those complaints right back and tell them it's because they are not listening. But in the end it still stinks. Especially because when I do have a crew willing to do its job, I can be more patient and a much more friendly captain.
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Hi QKO
if it's just your crew stick to your guns, ask the rest of the lobby to wait and point out they are now holding up the game and the longer they muck about the more people will be reporting them. If it's the lobby, change lobby.
One that happened to me was a guy spawning in a ship while everyone else was in a mobula because we'd been running all Mob matches (it was the day of the last update), despite the whole lobby asking him yo chnage he was "nuh uh - it doesn't say mobula only on the lobby title so I'm not going" so the whole lobby moved and started a new game with "THIS IS MOBULA ONLY" in the lobby title. Sometimes you take the mountain to Mohammed.
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Once again, what do you expect Muse to do? Tell people they'd better listen or they'll be banned from the game? What can they possibly do with reports of players like that?
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Once again, what do you expect Muse to do?
Easy. Better options for setting up custom game types.
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Once again, what do you expect Muse to do?
Easy. Better options for setting up custom game types.
I.... don't quite see how that would get rid of people not listening to captains.
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Well I'm sorry you haven't met too many of the experienced mature side of GoIO. Trust me they're there, but can sometimes be hard to spot depending on your time zone. If you're interested in real commitment there's always several clans out there looking for new members: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,9.0.html
Now for a muse developer: I reported quite a few people for not listening, what happened with those?
Just a note on this though. Reporting is for people misbehaving, harassing, trolling, spamming etc. But simply not listening, though annoying, isn't breaking any rules.
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Well I'm sorry you haven't met too many of the experienced mature side of GoIO. Trust me they're there, but can sometimes be hard to spot depending on your time zone. If you're interested in real commitment there's always several clans out there looking for new members: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,9.0.html
Now for a muse developer: I reported quite a few people for not listening, what happened with those?
Just a note on this though. Reporting is for people misbehaving, harassing, trolling, spamming etc. But simply not listening, though annoying, isn't breaking any rules.
So basically, you're saying that the captain has no form of power? Wasn't there that thread with players leaving midgames and another thread of captains leaving midgame? Do you understand the implications of what you just stated?
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Right, captains have no power
They need to lead and command by virtue of the respect their crew has for them
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Which in the average internet game is... none.
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Once again, what do you expect Muse to do?
Easy. Better options for setting up custom game types.
I.... don't quite see how that would get rid of people not listening to captains.
It would obviously help with Jack's example - the one above your post.
If you can set-up a Lobby as a Mobula-only game, not permitting other ship types.
It would also help with some crew problems.
If Captains could set a role preference for each slot, not forcing someone into that role but making them click through an acknowledgement if their role is different. That message would be in the default language for the player, helping with multinational crews.
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Right, captains have no power
They need to lead and command by virtue of the respect their crew has for them
And if that doesn't work...break out the Chain of Command ;D
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
You have Engineers that don't know what the hell a Repair cool down timer is. So they'll sit there hitting stuff over and over again thinking they're actually helping.
You have Pilots forgetting to press the '1' key so their abilities aren't running 24/7 "WHY DO THE ENGINES KEEP BREAKING!!" Ummm maybe because you're using moonshine constantly...
You have Engineers that think they're gunners and let the ship die because they were too busy shooting.
You have pilots that don't know where the guns are on the ship. (for example a galleon) They'll fly straight at the enemy instead of to it's side so it's weapons can actually fire at them.
It's a cool game and all but it feels like the only way to have fun is with some friends while you're buzzed. Other wise It's just a headache to play with randoms. :/
Do not tar us all with the same brush. perhaps you were playing with people who were new? did you offer them advice and suggestion on how to improve their performance? it's not all about how Badly someone plays, but how unhelpful everyone has been to that person. I used the training but was still quite unsure about a lot of things. The right crew and captains saw me progress into an allround fighter. you'll see by my stats im roughly the same level on all things and same gameplay as all three types as i constantly look for better ways to improve and teach others.
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Well I'm sorry you haven't met too many of the experienced mature side of GoIO. Trust me they're there, but can sometimes be hard to spot depending on your time zone. If you're interested in real commitment there's always several clans out there looking for new members: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,9.0.html
Now for a muse developer: I reported quite a few people for not listening, what happened with those?
Just a note on this though. Reporting is for people misbehaving, harassing, trolling, spamming etc. But simply not listening, though annoying, isn't breaking any rules.
So basically, you're saying that the captain has no form of power? Wasn't there that thread with players leaving midgames and another thread of captains leaving midgame? Do you understand the implications of what you just stated?
Yes, as a player it's annoying with crew and captains leaving midgames. But we can't simply force teamwork, only encourage it. As in any other game with a chain of command, it's not against the rules not to work with your teammates. You have power to choose the ship, kick people off the helm and communicate with fellow captains, but having the team cooperate is up to the captain and crew themselves.
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If you play with the same people regularly it mitigates a lot of problems tbh. I crew with a lot of different people so I will evaluate crews in terms of how much sanity I will sacrifice playing in that crew. Yesterday I was gunning on a ship where the level 2 captain had a crazy loadout on a junker, mercury/mortar on one side, gatling front and flamer/flak on the other side. After playing 1 match with this - I told the captain why it was a bad load out and suggested a load out he might do more with. He didn't change it so I left the crew.
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If you play with the same people regularly it mitigates a lot of problems tbh.
Hence players complaining of stacking!! lol
It is actually pretty funny how many times a new player has called me on stacking. 90% of the time the guys on my team were all puggers and were literally new players also. They only knew how to communicate and responded well when instructed. Within a match or two, they were moving as a unit and dominating. Most did not want to change teams either. They had it with terrible matches in low levels and were overjoyed to be finally learning something and doing well.
Why I rarely respond to someone QQing about stacking anymore. Either hit block list if they are really vocal or ignore till they leave. Then theres the ones that rage more if you try to instruct them. Heck one time I gave away our entire gameplan, ways to counter it, and how they should advance on us. Nope, didn't work. Other team still was 7-0'd and it was a meatgrinder right from the start. Matched ended, was like...seriously? I just told you guys how to beat it and what to do but you still did the same stuff you did before.
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tbh Gilder both solutons are not perfect - always play with the same folks drastically limits when you can play, play with lots of pubs means you will run into crews froim hell.
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
A classic example yesterday. On the other ship in the team there was an Engineer in the Captain's slot, no Pilot on the ship. Against my initial judgement and personal rules, I thought that as they were flying a Spire they might be trying something to mitigate its fragility.
Thirty seconds into the match, and on the Team text channel there's the other Captain typing, "Somebody go steer"
It's times like this I don't want to Block a player, I just want to flag them as a Muppet so I can still see/hear them but get a warning if I see them in my crew or team.
Password protected private matches FTW.
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Yes, as a player it's annoying with crew and captains leaving midgames. But we can't simply force teamwork, only encourage it. As in any other game with a chain of command, it's not against the rules not to work with your teammates. You have power to choose the ship, kick people off the helm and communicate with fellow captains, but having the team cooperate is up to the captain and crew themselves.
And you don't see a correlation between captains/players leaving and players being disobedient? In almost every other game where there is or isn't a chain of command in a team, there's an excessive amount of flaming going on because people don't listen to eachother and because a leader isn't appointed at the start of the game. Make no mistake, this is where this game is headed once it gains popularity.
I know I can rage pretty damn hard and some people cave in under this pressure and do start to listen, others don't even understand me or just think it is funny. If I have no tools to deal with these people, you are recommending that I leave the game and try my luck elsewhere, while the (often only) disobedient player is the cause of the problem. So lets recap on that: 1 player is disobedient, I leave, which means that my ship remains without a captain, so I ruin the game for my crew because of that disobedient player. Then because I left my ship, and my ship basically hangs in the air, it means that my team is down a player, so now I ruined the game for 2 + 4*(teamsize - 1) players. My opponents were expecting a good game and didn't expect me to leave, that's a game ruined for teamsize players. So by me leaving, I ruin the game quite extensively; and yet, this is the only AND RECOMMENDED action to deal with crewmembers that don't listen. I cannot even prevent these players from following me or joining my ship, so everytime they join my boat, I have to leave. Do you honestly think this is fair?
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He's not telling you to leave during the match.
Raging at your crew also causes more problems then it fixes. I'm all for clear orders (ask any of my clanmates), but you are fully aware that not everybody on the internet is going to listen, and that reason can be one of many. (Ex. language barrier, age, no mic, no interest in team-play, ect.)
Goio is unique in that it really requires teamwork to be successful. This includes taking orders from others, and that in itself is a very tall order. If you plan to be a good captain, you have to make people want to listen to you. You do not just immediately have that right, nor can we force it onto anybody.
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If you play with the same people regularly it mitigates a lot of problems tbh.
Hence players complaining of stacking!! lol
Let them.
Stacking is the whole point of being in a clan, for me. If you don't stack when you can you are just handicapping yourself. After all no-one is forcing anyone to play in a stacked match.
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He's not telling you to leave during the match.
http://gunsoficarus.com/faq/#troll noting point 2.
Raging at your crew also causes more problems then it fixes. I'm all for clear orders (ask any of my clanmates), but you are fully aware that not everybody on the internet is going to listen, and that reason can be one of many. (Ex. language barrier, age, no mic, no interest in team-play, ect.)
Goio is unique in that it really requires teamwork to be successful. This includes taking orders from others, and that in itself is a very tall order. If you plan to be a good captain, you have to make people want to listen to you. You do not just immediately have that right, nor can we force it onto anybody.
Raging at my crew happens when the other means of manipulation have been exhausted and when frustration kicks in. You are telling me it's not nice for me to ruin their experience while they are ruining mine. GoIO is not unique, DotA and spinoffs requires the same degree of teamwork, and we all know where that has lead people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AFNZx4iQWw . Granted, in those games you are not permitted to leave...
I'd love to be a good captain, I think everyone in the role has the same goal as I do. But that means that I am responsible for my ship and that I feel responsible when things go wrong. If my crew members are set on not listening to me, my hands are tied. I haven't met a single person who has claimed to me that they could make people who don't listen listen. That is the issue here, I cannot do anything about this and you/Muse is refusing to give me means to do so.
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I haven't met a single person who has claimed to me that they could make people who don't listen listen. That is the issue here, I cannot do anything about this and you/Muse is refusing to give me means to do so.
Hello! I've made people who don't listen listen!
Granted it doesn't happen often. Troll usually don't listen, and sometimes you can't get around that.
When this happens I counter troll. I take a flamesquid or something, constantly encourage my crew to do things better via voice and type. If that doesn't work, I let it go. It's a video game and I want to have fun. So I make it fun (squidramkilltime!).
I've actually turned a few crewmen who were "not listening" into listening crew members by taking the game a little less seriously (and possibly singing to them). But most of the time they were just inexperienced. I have a lot of patience, and I could care less about winning most of the time. Some people simply never talk, and if they don't I instruct those on my crew who are listening to work around them. I consider them like an AI, they will do what they will do.
They usually leave after we lose a few times. But in general I just assume everyone has no idea what they are doing and it's my job to teach them!
Remember, respect is earned. You can't expect people to listen to you just cause you are the captain. Make them want to listen. Give them direct feedback. "Oops. Okay, next time X, stay on the hull and we won't die." "Y you need to aim for the hull, it's that thick part on the bottom." "Guys, stay on the guns, if we kill them quickly they can't keep shooting us".
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2. Relocate — Leave the problem player behind by moving to a new lobby. You can invite other players in the match to a party and take the whole gang to a new match in crew formation, leaving the troll alone in the cold.
"Move to new lobby" does not equate to "leave the game you are playing thus ruining everyone's game."
Raging at my crew happens when the other means of manipulation have been exhausted and when frustration kicks in. You are telling me it's not nice for me to ruin their experience while they are ruining mine.
I didn't say it wasn't nice. I said it causes more problems for you than it will ever fix.
I'd love to be a good captain, I think everyone in the role has the same goal as I do. But that means that I am responsible for my ship and that I feel responsible when things go wrong. If my crew members are set on not listening to me, my hands are tied. I haven't met a single person who has claimed to me that they could make people who don't listen listen. That is the issue here, I cannot do anything about this and you/Muse is refusing to give me means to do so.
I'd love to hear about the means you expect Muse to give to you to force people to listen to you, while you also say people who don't listen simply never will. We both know not everyone is a team player, and there is no means of forcing them into that, so no tool exists that will ever net that result.
Make friends who listen. They want to have fun just as badly as you do. Ignore the troll. If they specifically target you and break the rules, report them. It has been this way since beta and no personal experience of mine, be it before and after I became a CA, has made me think we need any form of forced teamwork.
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It is all well and good to rage at a crewman for disobeying orders, trolling, or just general stupidity. Try to be creative about it. My personal favorites are:
"Get to your station or I will have you flogged."
"You are a disgrace to this ship."
"You have failed your country, you have failed your crew, and worst of all you have failed ME!"
"We die here for your incompetence."
"I expect a better hit rate from you."
"You can't be trusted with that <vital job> go to the <less vital job> and let <more experienced player> take over."
Quitting mid game is just poor sportsmanship. If you must, surrender or suicide into the enemy to end the game faster. It is better to loose the match and inform the entire lobby that you are leaving the server because Player X can't take orders. That way everyone in the lobby knows Player X is to be avoided, player X is publicly shamed, and nobody bares you ill will for making their game suck.
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To add on what Zill and Plasma said. We can't punish people for not wanting to work together, and as such the "BRR (http://gunsoficarus.com/faq/#troll)" is designed for trolls. If you got problems with them, yes you can move, report them and hopefully they'll get handled by Muse. There is however a difference between trolls and people simply not listening to you. These will in most cases be new people, and/or people who doesn't understand the teamwork. We don't recommend you to leave and report these players, and if you do they probably won't get handled. However as said previously, you are prefectly fine to report trolls, spammers and the like.
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Stacking is the whole point of being in a clan, for me. If you don't stack when you can you are just handicapping yourself.
Ah yes, I'm sorry but the win at any cost thing just doesn't work for me, if that's what you meant of course. It's that kind of mentality - win by any edge possible, no matter how cheap, that makes playing most multiplayer games such a bad experience. If that's what you meant of course.
Clans are fine, until it comes to the point you cannot play a game without getting preyed on, until it comes to the point that the members of the clans won't look after new players, unless they join, for fear of giving an edge to their competitors. That kind of mentality is extremely bad for any game imo. Lucky we don't have that kind of situation in GoI.
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My methods for fostering teamwork
1) Communicate - most players who are not trolls will communicate if you choose the right method. I generally start communicating with my team in the lobby. I'll often discover immediately if there is a communication issue.
1b) Solve communication issue - does the player have a mic? Is their sound turned off? Do they speak another language (google translate to the rescue!)
2) Set crew responsibilities and give broad description of your strategy
2b) If players are new teach them how to do their roles
3) If crew dissents decisions use discuss and use inductive reasoning to explain why you plan on using said tactics.
Now you have a communicating team all working together on a set agreed upon strategy. If you fail to make communication or agree on a strategy before the match starts, you can save yourself aggravation by finding another match without ever having to rage.
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2. Relocate — Leave the problem player behind by moving to a new lobby. You can invite other players in the match to a party and take the whole gang to a new match in crew formation, leaving the troll alone in the cold.
"Move to new lobby" does not equate to "leave the game you are playing thus ruining everyone's game."
No, it doesn't equate to it, but it does include it. The alternative is as suggested that you leave from within the lobby. What can I say, my patience has limits and my limits tend to be fairly high. People are leaving, and the way it is formulated, you endorse it.
I didn't say it wasn't nice. I said it causes more problems for you than it will ever fix.
Unfortunately, I don't see a bigger problem than someone ruining my game while I'm trying to have a fun time. Especially in the context of this game. So I would like examples of problems it creates.
I'd love to hear about the means you expect Muse to give to you to force people to listen to you, while you also say people who don't listen simply never will. We both know not everyone is a team player, and there is no means of forcing them into that, so no tool exists that will ever net that result.
It has been said too many times before, just make em walk the plank, so a new crew member has the option of taking his place. It's the easiest solution and it has worked for thousands of years. Otherwise allow us to muppet stamp people, where they get flagged for other users. There's also the banlist that can help us avoid playing with those who cannot be trusted. If the taste of victory, a friendly captain, or ability to waylay all responsibility for a loss, isn't enough incentive for players to listen to their captain; then nothing really is.
Make friends who listen. They want to have fun just as badly as you do. Ignore the troll. If they specifically target you and break the rules, report them. It has been this way since beta and no personal experience of mine, be it before and after I became a CA, has made me think we need any form of forced teamwork.
Nothing is really forced, but the problem here is that not listening doesn't really have any form of consequence; that voids the captain's role completely. And when it happens, the captain can just as well drop whatever he's doing and go watch a certain type of movie until the round is over.
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A captain is a captain, he can run his ship how he wants. Some are nice and communicative, others are not. While some take the "hard arse" route and see yelling cursing a an appropriate reprimand, go right ahead.
But just remember, if everything blows right up in your face don't expect people to sympathise with you or see it as
(entirely) the crews fault. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KF2rE8GbAk?t=4m50s) captain learned that the hard way.
I'm personally encourage the nice route and try my best to educate new players if they are willing to learn. And if I do get a bad crew and the nice route doesn't work, people won't see their actions being justified by a mean captain.
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I don't really have issues with new players, I just don't like training one every other match. I'll teach them for a little bit, but after awhile, I just want to fly, so I let them do whatever and probably don't talk for the rest of the match.
This is what I get for not having a bunch of friends to fly with, but whatever, I'll get lucky every once in awhile and get a competent/higher level crew.
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A captain is a captain, he can run his ship how he wants. Some are nice and communicative, others are not. While some take the "hard arse" route and see yelling cursing a an appropriate reprimand, go right ahead.
But just remember, if everything blows right up in your face don't expect people to sympathise with you or see it as
(entirely) the crews fault. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KF2rE8GbAk?t=4m50s) captain learned that the hard way.
I'm personally encourage the nice route and try my best to educate new players if they are willing to learn. And if I do get a bad crew and the nice route doesn't work, people won't see their actions being justified by a mean captain.
Which captain? The only captain that was communicating was friendly and humble. The other is a gunner and was being a dick. You seem to misinterpret where rage kicks in, for me at least. When I ask people to do stuff and they are giving me a bad attitude, they get a vocal correction, which is a relatively normal one. Only when the player proceeds to not care and not listen to what I say I start becoming angry and it's only in his direction; other crewmembers are relatively safe.
Let me reiterate: I don't care if people are new, bad, good, etc. My number 1 priority is that they LISTEN, if they do as they are told I don't have to look at my own ship and that means I can focus on doing MY job. When I do MY job, my fellow captain(s) can do their jobs and we can win. Even if we lose, it is not as big of a deal than when you lose because someone is screwing around.
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A captain is a captain, he can run his ship how he wants. Some are nice and communicative, others are not. While some take the "hard arse" route and see yelling cursing a an appropriate reprimand, go right ahead.
But just remember, if everything blows right up in your face don't expect people to sympathise with you or see it as
(entirely) the crews fault. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KF2rE8GbAk?t=4m50s) captain learned that the hard way.
I'm personally encourage the nice route and try my best to educate new players if they are willing to learn. And if I do get a bad crew and the nice route doesn't work, people won't see their actions being justified by a mean captain.
Which captain? The only captain that was communicating was friendly and humble. The other is a gunner and was being a dick. You seem to misinterpret where rage kicks in, for me at least. When I ask people to do stuff and they are giving me a bad attitude, they get a vocal correction, which is a relatively normal one. Only when the player proceeds to not care and not listen to what I say I start becoming angry and it's only in his direction; other crewmembers are relatively safe.
Let me reiterate: I don't care if people are new, bad, good, etc. My number 1 priority is that they LISTEN, if they do as they are told I don't have to look at my own ship and that means I can focus on doing MY job. When I do MY job, my fellow captain(s) can do their jobs and we can win. Even if we lose, it is not as big of a deal than when you lose because someone is screwing around.
EDIT: DERP I thought the gunner was the captain. I apologize for miscommunication I hope you forgive me. Either way a captain (or any player) should not act like that V
"OKAY PBG, WHAT THE F**K ARE YOU DOING, WHAT THE F**K ARE YOU DOING? WHAT THE HELL, WHY MAN, YOU CHOOSE THIS-THE F**ING GUNNER. WE NEED TWO FFFFFF***ING ENGINEER, TWO ENGINEER ON THE GOLDFISH! We gonna sink like a B***H!"
I see what you mean, I just hate having to yell, if it really is a bad sport it just gives them in their mind a reason to continue disobeying orders or even attack me back. I just don't want to wind up getting too angry and get hoist by my own petard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/HoistByHisOwnPetard). If worse comes to worse I find a new lobby after the game is finished since I don't want to rage quit.
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Maybe we could have a leveling system that rewards classes. Engies must be level 3 before unlocking gunner, and then gunners must reach level 2 before gaining pilot. This would ensure that by the time someone was pilot, they would understand how to work together.
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Maybe we could have a leveling system that rewards classes. Engies must be level 3 before unlocking gunner, and then gunners must reach level 2 before gaining pilot. This would ensure that by the time someone was pilot, they would understand how to work together.
This is a nice idea but I don't think this would ever work. Obviously I'm a beginner to the game, but in the hours I've done so far I've worked out I am a terrible pilot but I can gun and engineer well. If there were restrictions, I wouldn't be able to work that out as easily and thus hone the skills I need. It would just add unnecessary frustration when looking for crews - literally everyone in the beginner games would be engineers.
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Maybe we could have a leveling system that rewards classes. Engies must be level 3 before unlocking gunner, and then gunners must reach level 2 before gaining pilot. This would ensure that by the time someone was pilot, they would understand how to work together.
This would severely restrict people who, for example, bought a 4-pack with the intention of crewing a ship with the friends to whom they had gifted the game. A crew of all Engis would be severely gimped.
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Muse has stated they will not be restricting any in-game content to players aside from cosmetic items which you have to buy, all classes, vessels, and tools are available to you from the beginning. I'll have you know Pixley I've seen some wonky crew comps, IE: All pilots.
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I'll have you know Pixley I've seen some wonky crew comps, IE: All pilots.
I hope, for humanity's sake, that was for "teh lulz".
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Well considering we had a squid with all harpoons, yeah that was a fun match :P
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Well considering we had a squid with all harpoons, yeah that was a fun match :P
Combine that with all pilots and you've got a super setup.
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I see what you mean, I just hate having to yell, if it really is a bad sport it just gives them in their mind a reason to continue disobeying orders or even attack me back. I just don't want to wind up getting too angry and get hoist by my own petard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/HoistByHisOwnPetard). If worse comes to worse I find a new lobby after the game is finished since I don't want to rage quit.
If you check the context of that vid, the gunner that went off at PBG has posted on the vid and explained himself a bit. It turns out that PBG didn't communicate and picked gunner despite people telling him in the lobby not too. So I suppose while the captain was flaming his teammate for readying, the gunner turned his attention to PBG. And to be honest, that was hilarious.
Furthermore, you getting angry, forceful or abusive isn't going to make people that listen to you stop listening. Especially when they know they are not the target. The people who were not listening, now have a reason that they don't listen. Does this matter? No, because they have shown that they didn't need a reason to ignore you to begin with. Nothing has changed and if you point it out to them, you will see how weak their fragile minds really are. Yes, this is dota experience; at the same time in dota, if people were new, I didn't really care for that, as long as they were sincere... Now the guy in mid with a ganker not ganking, that gets my attention; and while the newb was going 0-13 I kept going at our mid the full game until he finally snapped.
If I want anyone to take anything away from this, I wish wholeheartedly to prevent Guns of Icarus going down the same path. Once the game fills up with people that are in it for themselves, shit will hit the fan and the guy raging at PBG will become a distant memory of when things were better.
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Thing is this game doesn't reward being in it for yourself. Even if you want to chase achievements you have to get a consensus before you do it because people will be working around the limitations you're placing on the ship.
All of that goes counter to most multiplayer games - there is a team score, it isn't broken down into K/D per ship, by weapon in any way beyond the superficial. Therfor most people coming into the game will bring the game culture that other multiplayer games have fostered, people either adapt or leave it's that simple.
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Well Pilots get a K/D ratio so in a way if you are working on that stuff you'll be rewarded if you play the harder class. You can bring in some skills from other MP games for that. Instead of thinking about yourself you gotta carry it over and think about it as your ship and the rest of your crew. If you fly like your life and the lives of your crew + ship mean something then you'll get better.
I'm honest, I have high K/D ratios in stuff like BF. I don't like the mindset players have where you aren't helping the team if you don't spawn and die constantly. I decided to work towards maximizing each life and it payed off. You can do it on any class in that, not just sniper. Just have to play smarter. Transfer that over to guns as a pilot and you'll find yourself not meatgrinding as much. Gotta change that mindset from kill > your ship into your ship > kill. Not that you play defensively but you look at each engagement and ask yourself can you do it and also is your crew capable of doing it. If you have a crew you can't trust then you are better off playing as a long range boat hoping just 1 out of 100 shots they shoot manage to land.
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I don't really bother much with K/D I just like to see it in a positive ratio and leave it at that.
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You have Captains flying as gunner/Engineer instead of pilots.
You have Engineers that don't know what the hell a Repair cool down timer is. So they'll sit there hitting stuff over and over again thinking they're actually helping.
You have Pilots forgetting to press the '1' key so their abilities aren't running 24/7 "WHY DO THE ENGINES KEEP BREAKING!!" Ummm maybe because you're using moonshine constantly...
You have Engineers that think they're gunners and let the ship die because they were too busy shooting.
You have pilots that don't know where the guns are on the ship. (for example a galleon) They'll fly straight at the enemy instead of to it's side so it's weapons can actually fire at them.
It's a cool game and all but it feels like the only way to have fun is with some friends while you're buzzed. Other wise It's just a headache to play with randoms. :/
I get you, i've seen all of these things happen a lot and it's annoying. But Just as many times I've seen players who've obviously been around a while being condescending and rude to new players instead of being helpful. I myself have only been playing two weeks and have gotten pretty decent if I say so myself because I've had veterans giving me advice and guidance and letting me on their ships.
A lot of times I instead see better players run new players off, don't let them on their ships because winning is more important than having fun in a game.
This is why my ship kinda has a reputation as a noob ship with big balls, the "sideways fister". And we've earned respect from several veterans for trying even though we know we'll probably lose instead of backing out of matches with high level players or demanding all the noobs leave to make room on my ship for better players.
If you only want people who aren't new to play then expect the game to die. Or you can help those who suck learn to be better and make them feel welcome. Then we'll all have more players to play against and with.
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I remember the sideways fister, don't forget a ship like that.
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Ok, lets start to use this thread for some other but related issues. Have you guys played during the last weekend? It's been a very bad shift for as far as I'm concerned. I've actually reported someone on all accounts of trolling and at multiple occasions have we required a CA or Muse member to step in and deal with the situation. Quite frankly, I think something really needs to be done before the community starts segregating itself into private groups and we start ending up with dota inhouses all over again. Our patience is getting severely tested as it is right now.
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I haven't really noticed anything. I play during very odd hours though- GMT -5 in the early afternoon and after midnight.
Is this some sort of organized thing or did it just seem like you ran into a lot of annoying people?
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I have yet to notice that at all.
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I haven't really noticed anything. I play during very odd hours though- GMT -5 in the early afternoon and after midnight.
Is this some sort of organized thing or did it just seem like you ran into a lot of annoying people?
I ran into a lot of annoying people.
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Maybe we could have a leveling system that rewards classes. Engies must be level 3 before unlocking gunner, and then gunners must reach level 2 before gaining pilot. This would ensure that by the time someone was pilot, they would understand how to work together.
I highly disagree with this. I joined with three other people at the beginning, we decided to work together and understand the game together. We each decided our roles and stuck with it, learning from mistakes and evolving our strategies accordingly, we became better players. Forcing people to start with one class will not make a better pilot, it takes patience and co-ordination not to mention the apptitude and communication. Just because someone had to work to get to pilot does not mean they will be any better.
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I think one of the strengths of this game is that everything is unlocked right from the get-go. You don't need to spend hours and hours grinding to unlock the "real game."
That said, would it work if you had to play the tutorial for each class to unlock it? Then, at least, you're actually playing a little in-game before your first match. The tutorials are (very) short, and while basic they would acquaint people with the mechanics of each class. Or perhaps offer some other reward for doing them; a unique hat or something for each class if you do its tutorial. (always in favor of more hats) You'd just have to change the main menu UI to draw people to it.