Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: HamsterIV on July 23, 2013, 06:56:36 pm
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The Mobula is generally considered an engineering nightmare with key components locates so far away from each other that two full time engineers are needed when the ship comes under sustained attack. Further more all three crew members are required to maintain the engines if the pilot decides to activate kerosine for a long term burn.
All other ships in this game have the engines close enough together that a single engineer can keep the turning engines repaired if the pilot decided to get a little aggressive in his maneuvering. This puts the Mobula at a severe disadvantage to all other ships in the game since it needs at least two player shooting to present any sort of legitimate threat.
I propose that the Mobula be changed so that all three engines can be reached from the top deck, and there be a path from the balloon repair point to the hull repair point that does not involve going up then down a ladder.
The engines could be moved to the gaps between the side wings and the hull forcing the engineer responsible for the engines to run the width of the ship to hit all engines in a single repair circuit. The proposed side positions are close to the outer guns giving that engineer something to do when not actively repairing.
For the hull and balloon modification I suggest a catwalk be provided at either the front, back, or both ends of the ship so that an engineer can run between the two core components faster. Alternately the downstairs areas could be connected inside the ship, however it may be too easy to keep the ship alive if this is the case.
Thanks for hearing out my rant.
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to be honest, i was told to custom order some ladders for the mobula not to long ago in hopes to ease some of the tension here. as far as i'm concerned since the mobula is new its going to go through alot of evolving, and most of it will depend on "rants" as you call them like these really. at the same time we don't want to get to ahead of ourselves to fast cause that could lead to whole other series of problems.
with that said, continue on with the good "rants" :P at the very least i'm all ears. i was actually on the look out earlier for topics such as these popping up to see how the ship is doing overall.
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The Mobula is generally considered an engineering nightmare with key components locates so far away from each other that two full time engineers are needed when the ship comes under sustained attack.
the spire also requires 2 full time engineers if it comes under any sort of serious attack. but you are not supposed to let the enemy have the opportunity to attack you. In ships like the Mobula and the Spire you have to fight in a way that minimizes personal danger.
now as for the layout, i think its mostly fine. yeah its probably the hardest ship in the game. but its also one of the most fun :P
i think its main problem is that it is new. not to long ago, the lumberjack was a specialty weapon not used by alot of people because there was not many people who could hit consistently with it. now its one of the most feared weapons and there are people who want to nerf it. unless i am mistaken, i dont think much changed with the lumberjack, only player skill with it.
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Every other ship in the game has at least 2 components right next to each other. I don't think it would be over powered if the Mobula was easier to repair.
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The most ships still have both turning engines in one area of responsibility. I combined two gripes I have about the mobula in one post. That the balloon and hull are very far apart, and that the two turning engines are very very far apart. Most ships put some distance between the hull and balloon because it is too easy to tank all ship critical damage otherwise, so I am not all that put out by that feature of the mobula. However to put the two most important engines so far away from each other especially on a ship with such a large blind spot borders on cruel and unusual punishment. The spire can get by with two full time engineers because it has a Medium gun mount that can be relied upon to make a kill by itself. The Mobula relies on light gun mounts which must be used in tandem to for the ship to present any sort of credible threat. So any engineer on a Mobula constantly has to be asking himself, "Can I let the engine/baloon/hull drop while I get in these last shots?"
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Ladders on the back would do Just fine.
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So any engineer on a Mobula constantly has to be asking himself, "Can I let the engine/baloon/hull drop while I get in these last shots?"
exactly, thats what makes the mobula a unique ship. without that internal dilemma of the mobula, its just a new model for the same old ship design. the mobula is requires alot of movement and coordination on the part of the crew. just because no other ship in the game is at that level of coordination does not mean its a bad thing. most ships have specified patrol regions for each crew member. while those regions exist on the mobula, they shift with the orientation and environment that the ship is in.
more accessible components, while making the ship easier to crew, just leads to blandness. on basically every other ship the routes may be different but the movements are the same for the engineering crew. ship gameplay up until the mobula, is driven to be most interesting from the pilots perspective. on the mobula, more decision making power is put in the hands of the crew. it puts all the players on a more equal footing. but that makes communication and cooperation way more important than ever before.
going back on a new style of play the mobula offers would be a mistake. if it is butchered and made to behave like a "normal" ship, the gameplay of it just becomes more of the same and little more than different scenery to look at while you run around on a ship. what is the point in that?
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I've used the mobula a lot and have "discovered" a play style that works for me, but I would ask that there be a rear short cut out of the wings. On most other ships the engineer has secret paths he can use - ie the Squid has strategic gaps in the railings, Pyra has the gantry dive and the hole to the right of the upper cowling of the main engine.
Before the release I tried the Mob out on the dev app to specifically look for these paths. Jumping from the turning engine platform onto the turning engine to get up to the wing top /drive engine works, but not frequently enough that you can count on it.
I would also love it if you could dock another ship in the tail area, but in such a way that the docked ship won't have working guns (obstructed by the Mobs supertructure) until it undocks, a squid would definitely fit in there, probably a goldfish and possibly a pyra. It could open up new play styles.
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I would also love it if you could dock another ship in the tail area, but in such a way that the docked ship won't have working guns (obstructed by the Mobs supertructure) until it undocks, a squid would definitely fit in there, probably a goldfish and possibly a pyra. It could open up new play styles.
Must.... Resist.........
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That's what she said.
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I would also love it if you could dock another ship in the tail area, but in such a way that the docked ship won't have working guns (obstructed by the Mobs supertructure) until it undocks, a squid would definitely fit in there, probably a goldfish and possibly a pyra. It could open up new play styles.
actually, i doubt any of those ships would fit there, assuming i understand what your saying. mobulas oddly enough actually one of the smallest ships, its just wide as all hell ,as wide as a junker is long . . . and yea. . . zenark. . resist anything about that statement that might come off wrong. . .
regardless, the ship was designed to be difficult to repair, but i never expected it to be so difficult it was a nightmare. when the ladders go in i'm hoping to get as much feed back as possible. its really hard to actually test this sorta thing with out players of all kinds giving it a shot. . . i only have AI to work with and somehow, somehow adding the ladders has made them even stupider -_-; you should see some of the drunken paths these guys take.
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Is this a possible confirmation of ladders being added in the back? :D
Resisting..... Innuendo..... Overload...
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okay zen. Just exit the thread ... slowly... there you go... you can do it. you should probably stay away from the mobula for a little bit okay buddy?
:)
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B-b-but.... My puffer fish Q.Q
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I don't know about other people but I often find it annoying to try and get on a ladder in the first place. I would actually like to see stairs or a ramp put in the back. This would make it easier to get up to the top deck (at least for me).
Also I have flown the mobula several times. In terms of guns for the bottom decks I recommend using a mercury in stead of a gat if you're engineers are having trouble trying to balance between time spent shooting and time spent repairing (this also gives you a range advantage). Not to mention it helps to take out their guns before then can hit you. I personally don't see the need to have a buff-gineer on the ship at all. If you have 2 ain engineers and they each stay in their own hallway it becomes a fairly easy ship to maintain.
Would it be possible to add a window in the back of the captain's cabin? I often find my self wasting both time and effort trying to back up. I have to rely on my gunner and engineers to tell me where I'm going. This wouldn't be that bad if i didn't also need them to shoot and repair at the same time. I would turn around and flee but all of the guns are front facing and the turning is a little awkward.
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Sometimes, when I get off of one of the bottom guns, I'll accidentally mount the ladder. I don't think this is bad ladder placement, I think it's just me being a noob. Do any of yall do this too?
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I personally don't see the need to have a buff-gineer on the ship at all.
The ship is a glass cannon. It needs buffgineers to give it extra firepower and a bit of additional survivability.
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Buffing the hull is proportionate. The hull armor is so low that buffing barely adds anything. If you want a buff-gineer I recommend replacing you gunner with one. At this point your running with 2 main engineers in each hallway and a buff-gineer/ gun-gineer running around the whole ship.
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Would it be possible to add a window in the back of the captain's cabin? I often find my self wasting both time and effort trying to back up. I have to rely on my gunner and engineers to tell me where I'm going.
look through the ballroom windows behind the pilot and rotate the mob slightly alternating left and right can help
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I get stuck on the ladder after getting off the gun all the time. I think it is my Pyramiddion engineer habit of backing up while turning to get the balloon. Anyway the "Nightmare" and "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" is just Hyperbole. The Mobula needs some work. Crewing on it is interesting, but not as much fun as it could be.
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. i only have AI to work with and somehow, somehow adding the ladders has made them even stupider -_-; you should see some of the drunken paths these guys take.
Cant you flag the new ladders as player only?
Currently the AI on mobula is extremely bad it renders the ship completely unplayable with even one AI.
I have to mount flares on most of the ship so that the AI gunners doesnt run all the way around the place.
Engineer AI is just impossible, by the time they get to the hull, you are dead.
I strongly think the bottom AI engineers needs to stay in one hallway and never move from there. Probably not easily codable though...
If only we could manually set priorities or schedules for AI... :P
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Anyway the "Nightmare" and "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" is just Hyperbole. The Mobula needs some work. Crewing on it is interesting, but not as much fun as it could be.
of course, one reason either way why we dont want to get ahead of ourselves :P we might accidentally make it far to easy to repair and all of a sudden the ship becomes ridiculously over powered >>;
as for ai, i can only build paths for them, which means if the ai is overall more horrible with ladders i'll just rid of those paths leading to the ladders, its mostly a "is this doing more harm then good" for them, pretty much theirs some cases that are better and some that are worse. but theres literally no way i can tell them whats important, and whats not, or stay on this side of the ship if your here.
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Anyway the "Nightmare" and "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" is just Hyperbole. The Mobula needs some work. Crewing on it is interesting, but not as much fun as it could be.
of course, one reason either way why we dont want to get ahead of ourselves :P we might accidentally make it far to easy to repair and all of a sudden the ship becomes ridiculously over powered >>;
I think the most fun part of the ship as a pilot is having the possibility to mount the top gun.
I think that if that possibility is removed without increasing ship defense, it will become an underpowered ship much like the spire.
I know you want to get it fixed, but really its fun to use. You have to know WHEN to go up there, and multiple times i have lost arc on three guns just to shoot a flare shot while mounting up.
It leads to interesting decisions and is the only ship where a pilot can fire.
Even if it means leaving that gun up means engineering will not be made easier.
The second part that i like most of the ship is that it has a good turning speed but low acceleration. It means that if you start the turn early, you can complete very nice maneuvers, but you have to pay attention and react early, or most of the time, react BEFORE you actually need to turn.
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It leads to interesting decisions and is the only ship where a pilot can fire.
??????
How can you forget about the Spire trifecta (or as I prefer to call it the Spire Quackfecta).
Run on over ping pang pew to save the day and back on the helm to steer through the disintegrated splintered hull of your vanquished foe.
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It leads to interesting decisions and is the only ship where a pilot can fire.
??????
How can you forget about the Spire trifecta (or as I prefer to call it the Spire Quackfecta).
Run on over ping pang pew to save the day and back on the helm to steer through the disintegrated splintered hull of your vanquished foe.
I have never even considered boarding a spire... and probably never will
Half the times my team mate has a spire i will quit the match. And every time the enemy has one, i will charge them blindly.
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It leads to interesting decisions and is the only ship where a pilot can fire.
??????
How can you forget about the Spire trifecta (or as I prefer to call it the Spire Quackfecta).
Run on over ping pang pew to save the day and back on the helm to steer through the disintegrated splintered hull of your vanquished foe.
I have never even considered boarding a spire... and probably never will
Half the times my team mate has a spire i will quit the match. And every time the enemy has one, i will charge them blindly.
It used to be the only ship I actively refused to crew on. Not anymore. Now it's one of two ships I avoid.
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Well, hold on one second guys. The Spire may be made out of tissue paper; but the ability to leverage that much firepower from forward facing gun mounts that can be moved in and out of combat, can not be understated.
It's the Spire pilot's job to know where to position that firepower, so that they can leverage the dps to maximum effect while avoiding damage themselves. It's also ideal to have an ally that can block for the Spire.
A well crewed Spire working with a good ally will often kill a charging opponent before they're even in range of the Spire leaving a quick 2v1 to focus down.
That being said, the Spire may not be entirely as competitive as other ships and you may not be seeing one any time soon in the cogs, but it's far from the disaster that you guys are making it out to be.
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I remember a certain Spire assisting in the win of the 3v3 tourney. It can't be all that useless.
It does get harder in the 2v2 scenario though. Not impossible by any stretch.
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The spire is probably one of the best ships I've ever flown. You guys severely under estimate it's power. If you get a chance stop by one of the Baptism by Spire Practice lobbies and you'll see just how powerful they are!
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The spire is probably one of the best ships I've ever flown. You guys severely under estimate it's power. If you get a chance stop by one of the Baptism by Spire Practice lobbies and you'll see just how powerful they are!
The problem with spires have never been their power, it's been their entire "made-out-of-tissue-paper" thing. It's tough to use them well in a 2v2 setting, much more lenient in 3v3 as we saw the winning team use it to high effect.
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Oh no, I don't underestimate its power at all. It's an extremely potent ship in the right hands.
I hate it because people make me go main engi on it. Honestly, I'd rather spend half an hour sitting in the lobby.
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I enjoy flying spires a lot, but in pug's it really depends on the shooting quality of the crew. If you have 2 people that can shoot at long ranges you can tear a new one into any enemy. Unfortunately I'd say only about 35% of random people can hit at long ranges with a mercury or flak.
On topic:
I like that the Mobula has 2 definite engineering zones - its different from other ships. Considering that it can lay out a massive amount of firepower (4 guns at once is not all that hard to pull off), it needs something to balance it out. The rear ladders should give the engineers a bit more engine flexibility at least.
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It may be made out of tissue paper but it can still hold its own. The other day I played in a spire with a goldfish as my ally (2 very squishy ships) against a galleon and pyramidion. We would actually charge ahead of the goldfish and go for a brawl coming out victorious 4 out of 5 times. When we died in the 5th brawl our ally managed to swoop in getting the score ending the game at 5 to 1.
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Oh no, I don't underestimate its power at all. It's an extremely potent ship in the right hands.
I hate it because people make me go main engi on it. Honestly, I'd rather spend half an hour sitting in the lobby.
Yeah, the hull on the Spire is one of the most boring places to be in the game; and if you're being shot at you can't leave. That's why I usually try to manufacture situations where my main can go work the top deck trifecta gun to make up for the banality that normally encompasses the role.
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It may be made out of tissue paper but it can still hold its own. The other day I played in a spire with a goldfish as my ally (2 very squishy ships) against a galleon and pyramidion. We would actually charge ahead of the goldfish and go for a brawl coming out victorious 4 out of 5 times. When we died in the 5th brawl our ally managed to swoop in getting the score ending the game at 5 to 1.
I don't doubt you can pull off good stuff with spires if you have a crew that knows what it's doing in regular matches. Tournament play is an entirely different animal though :P
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Sniper Spire in 2v2 will never work for the same reason SniperFish doesn't work, Mercuries eat it alive, it can't dodge sideways and its massive vertical hull ensures that if you don't take out its gun, the bullet will still find its target. It's also slow and hard to manuver with on the vertical axis due to the vertical profile. It's a very high risk ship and not worth the effort.
That said, it's still beautiful ship and if well protected can perform well, but it's not worth the risk most of the time since people can just forget about it and go with the much safer option that is the Galleon.
Yes I am implying that your enemies are not brickheads and actually know how to easily counter one of the most fragile ships in the game. At least in 2v2.
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soooooooooooooo............ about them mobula component layouts.................
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yes, yes, lets keep this about the mobula! stop reminding me about my track record so far in regards to ships and engineering >>;;;;;;;;;;;;;
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As many others have suggested A hallway linking the other two would be a very nice addition. The hull could be moved to the top deck so as to not make things to easy. And it would go with that whole upside down theme.
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The hull could be moved to the top deck so as to not make things to easy. And it would go with that whole upside down theme.
I think that this is genius! It makes sense too. The only problem with it is you might end up having 1 less gun shooting most of the time which in this ship spells death.
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I honestly think it's great the way it is. Shakes up everything and requires different engineering and gunning tactics. A Mob can be very flexible and switch roles nearly instantly.
I recognize it's super large mounts difficult to repair effectively, but I don't think it's broken and it's growing on me. I actually think I like it more than the Pyra right now, just because it's more fun to fly (I don't like driving a brick through the sky).
I don't engineer that much, but the little experience I have engineering on a mob has required me to run around a bit and shoot at stuff. Which is pretty much my experience engineering on most ships. Exception Goldfish.
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I originally thought the Mobula was a nightmare the few times I found myself gunning on one, But I found with a pilot, A dedicated Engineer for the top decks, Works as long as the gunners have some form of hammer or wrench to buff, Fix or repair their respective spots as well. Been a few times where whacking on the engine with a pick in my spare time off the guns helped squeeze through tough spots.
I still don't like the danged thing but at least I'm semi useful when I'm stuck down there.
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I actually think I like it more than the Pyra right now, just because it's more fun to fly (I don't like driving a brick through the sky).
I enjoy flying it, not least because it presents a set of challenges different to how other ships handle in game.
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Isn't the Mobula supposed to be a ship that runs in guns blazing kills a person and gets out? One thing has no one though of the idea to have a passage way going straight from the Balloon repair station to the Hull station?
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Isn't the Mobula supposed to be a ship that runs in guns blazing kills a person and gets out? One thing has no one though of the idea to have a passage way going straight from the Balloon repair station to the Hull station?
I don't believe the Mobula is meant to run into anything, unless you wish to die. At least in my experience, it is best to stand off and get as much damage on them as possible while they come in.
In my short stint as a Mobula pilot, the strength of the ship is that it is equally effective at long and short range. I think of it kinda like half a galleon. Instead of having a short range and long range side, it has both on the same side.
Also, the way I see the Mobula being repaired, you really need 2 "main" engis -- Balloon Side and Hull Side, with the 3rd top engi as a floater. If you see the engine, balloon, and right side guns as one circuit and the engine, hull, and left side guns as the other circuit. The top gun guy has the main engine.
After a little consideration and things finally falling into place, the Mobula makes a lot of sense and there isn't much at all I would change. I would like a ladder in the back, but I'm not even sure how much that is necessary, or even how much difference it will make, but it is nice to have.
My hats off to Muse for building a ship that operates quite differently than the other ships -- not an easy feat.
Haven't had this much fun on a ship since I first started playing. Thanks Muse.
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The only way a Mobula will get up to running speed is with kerosene/moonshine and/or engine buffs - either way the pilot will be pulling engies off guns to do it.
Where it does excel is being able to have 3 guns on target along the length of it's wingspan if you are careful about choosing weapons with large turning arcs.
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The way I have my Mobula set up is so one engineer can cover their own wing. I have the mortar on the deck with the balloon and the "luxury" weapon by the hull. Stick an armor piercer on top and you are basically flying a Pyra where you have 1 hull engineer that can get on a gun, another gunner on your armor piercer, and your explosive gunner on your balloon. The main problem is if you want a buff engineer he has to be on top, away from all of your main components.
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My set up is like this:
Artemis - Mortar - Merc - Mortar - Artemis
Ideally the top gunner is a buffgineer who buffs hull, main engine, and their gun. From range I use Artemis going in, then switch to mortars as they come into firing range. Each side engi is on one engine and either balloon or hull, but we don't really look to repair while the enemy is still alive.
Double mortars spewing forth like a fountain of death on the enemy ship is one of the more glorious things I've seen in this game.
I love my Mobie -- Long Live A Love Supreme.