Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: JaceBoojah on July 04, 2013, 02:57:42 am
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Preface: With my team the brood we have kind of pledged to be a anti sniping brawl team that did not sit and snipe. It is very hard to kill a sniping team that has good formation, sometimes it seems impossible, but we have adapted to fight those odds instead of resorting to snipe ourselves.
Our toughest job is closing the gap between us and a long range formation.
These are my notes on the new patch strictly from my team's mindset.
the biggest game changers is BUFFED MERC and NERFED GAT.
Nerfed gat will hurt my close range build's DPS but I really think the game needed it to break up the gat flak meta some.
The buffed Merc though is devastating to my cause.
Rotation speed is up
Rotation angle is up from 20 to 30 degrees (not a hard number yet)
reload time is down from 6 seconds to 5 seconds
Bullets now penetrate all the way through the ship destroying all guns and engines in their path.
Why did the merc need a buff??
Why such a huge buff??
20 degrees was a good number because is made it so only 2 mercs could ever hit the same target on any ship. now 45 degree angle gun spots can have mercs hit the same target. Spires can have 2 mercs plus a heavy gun on a single target and mobulas can have 3 mercs on a target AND get a 3 merc + 1 Artemus quadfecta.
Tripple merc Mobulas. get ready.
Ships can go up and down easier! yay!
I have not figured out the mine launchers place on my ship yet.
I will make more posts.
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I might just not come back from my vacation.
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^^ if it wasn't for the fire buff, I would agree with you.
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It's not a fire buff as much as it is an engineer tool nerf. I can't fathom a reason why the merc and the lumberjack got buffed. They were hardly ineffective or underused. Competitive brawl may be dead.
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Exactly my current concerns, Jace. On top of reducing a brawlers ability to engage on a snipe camp, lochnagar is now allowing weapons to turn when loaded albeit slowly. While the brawling changes are for the better of the game - I'm at a loss as to why the merc received such loving treatment given it's popularity in the competitive field. It's already so rewarding that it's the default long range forgoing explosives to bear a 2nd merc if capable.
The merc and loch changes together make the long game nauseatingly powerful. Every merc change I completely disagree with. The turning on loch has to be revoked immediately - the numbers are far too rewarding on a galleons heavy weapons (lochnagar carronade/heavy flak weak side anyone? I hear you like insta-gibs.)
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Now now, stuff can fixes before the patch is released. I think it'll become rather clear in the next few days that something is horribly wrong with a lot of the changes.
If it doesn't, get ready to see sniping matches on long-range maps, and "long-range" Galleons demolishing everything on close-range maps.
I love the merc, but it didn't need that. I think it's fairly clear that the changes are meant to make it replace the Gatling (and I say replace, because the gat was very, very badly over-nerfed). With that extra arc, it can handle close-range engagements better. With the shorter reload (in addition to the heavy clip nerf) it'll be putting out more DPS than the gat. With the penetration... That's just extra. And also unecessary. The merc is supposed to be a long range hull stripper and component disabler. The gat is supposed to do that close up. Now the merc can do both, and the gat can't really do either.
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Now now, stuff can fixes before the patch is released. I think it'll become rather clear in the next few days that something is horribly wrong with a lot of the changes.
Exactly. I'm in the hopes that making our voices heard will expedite this process.
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Was the gat itself nerfed or just heavy?
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As far as I know only heavy, but that directly translates into a gat nerf.
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Remember, this is Muse here, not some huge multi-million dollar industry.
Unless I'm mistaken, they have developed about 3 games total, and two of those have minimum attention on them.
Guns of Icarus is their main concern, and with everyone freaking out about the unnecessary buffs (the long range weapons, mainly) I have faith that they'll go back and change some stuff.
But credit where credit is due. The nerf of heavy rounds: ingenious.
Totally meta-changing, while keeping the core of both weapons intact.
It encourages closer combat fighting, but not without a counter (fire).
I may be wrong here, but I think Muse is trying to make sniping more meta.
It already was good, but gat/flak was better.
Personally, I think Muse should have left the merc and the LJ where they were an let people discover then again.
Then again, I've never made a PvP game.
I trust Muse not to utterly destroy this thing we all know and love, and I sincerely hope they don't let me down.
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Lochnagar didn't need buffs, all changes need to be averted.
Mercury didn't need a buff all changes, averted as well.
Turn the second damn gun on the top deck of a Spire an other 45 degrees so it can face the front.
Reduce the base bullet spread of the gatling.
Remove the muzzle speed penalty from Heavy clip, fire rate nerf is enough by itself.
These things need to be done if we are to have a decent chance at brawling, else sniping will reign supreme, it was already way too powerful, it needed no further buffing.
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Loch may have needed a buff, but whoa, this is waaaaay too much. It pretty much eliminates the need for arming time to exist, and it no longer kills light guns, and it allows the guns to rotate a bit. I'd say that the last two changes were in order, but the first one? What?!?
Agreed on everything else, Echo.
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whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy museeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
why buff the mer WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MERC BUFF WHYYYYYY JUST WHYYYY MOBULA 5 FOWARD MERCS WITH BUFF MERCS WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT IF THEY BUFF THE MERC NERF THE GAT NOTHING TO PRESSURE MERC MERC MERC WHY DOES MUSE HATE ME MERC MERC MERC MERC MECR EUQHRYUHJFNSDJGNHSJVAGTNAJNSLWVMIJ WHAT CAN OUT SNIP A MERC WITH MERC ROUNDS IN THE MERC MECR MEMVCMWIONWERO;UNRSKHGJSFMK.;L,RXDS;./RSXDL;KO'>E4R3T7;LP0K[/1
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Everything changed in Carronadeland when the point blank Lumberjack insta-balloon poppers attacked..
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Everything changed in Carronadeland the the point blank Lumberjack insta-balloon poppers attacked..
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631911119438703235/F89ED0306DC1B9833C1B182D3FFC96252224B5D2/)
Yup...
EDIT: For anybody wondering why my name in the dev app is hashtagswagyolo... I was screwing around with the name changes, and I learned about the 2-change cap the hard way.
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Why did they buff the mercury and lumberjack?
They were already two of the most competitive weapons out there, it doesn't make sense.
And this is coming from someone who uses both the lumberjack and the mercury on his ship...
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The merc has always been one of my favourite guns. I've been practicing with it for three weeks straight. I've gotten better and better at leading, disabling components, etc.
Yet I don't think it needs all this at all. The changes to arc and reload time should be dropped. But for the penetration to stay, the piercing should be lowered. Otherwise you're getting way too much simultaneous disables and armour damage.
Though first I'd like to hear more about the new merc penetration mechanics.
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Also, I should elaborate a bit on what I think is horribly, depressingly wrong with the lochnagar's arming time reduction.
Sniping builds are strong. They can deal insane amounts of damage from a long way away. The arming time on the lumber and heavy flak makes a lot of sense: it means that a brawling team can get up close to a sniping Galleon's broadside and have its effectiveness reduced. That's good. It keeps sniping balanced and gives brawling builds a good chance. With the new lochnagar, there is virtually nothing that a brawling team can do. Stay out? Sure, they'll get pummelled by merc-lumber fire. Get up close? They'll get crushed by merc + loch flak/lumber. That simply isn't right.
Another bit that makes no sense is that charged merc, as of 1.3 testing, does higher DPS than the Gatling. Charged merc does 89.7 armour DPS before the reload (which was shortened, reducing another one of the gat's advantages). Heavy gat does 69. If you switch to any other ammo type, you'll miss a pile of shots, and the DPS will once again be lower than the merc.
Tl;dr: Sniping OP, Gat useless
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I was tired last night and did not write all my notes.
I like the Loch buff. Loch was completely useless before and the damage to gun will keep it from being over powered ever.
We talked to Bubbles in game for a while and heres his words on the Merc
The penetration buff was always intended and is now working. that is staying.
He doesn't know why there were other Buffs to the Merc and will talk to Eric (the balance guy) about them.
Bubbles be praised!
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I like the Loch buff. Loch was completely useless before and the damage to gun will keep it from being over powered ever.
The penetration buff was always intended and is now working. that is staying.
Lochnagar useless?...... Just because people are stupid and couldn'd find a use for it doesn't mean it wasn't powerful. It is amazing on both the Heavy Flak and the Heavy Carronade.
Also the penetration was intended? with the full damage carrying over in a line? That's bull. It needs a massive damage reduction to anything else it hits bar the first component.
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yeah the loch buff is all good until someone point blanks you with flak after an armor strip or near armor strip ><
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Hey guys- thanks for the feedback. This is, in fact, a test build, and we want this sort of feedback on what's going on with the changes. However, can you send your thoughts on this to feedback@musegames.com ? If we can organize people's thoughts there, we can discuss your feelings on what's been changed. If you simply make a forum post and discuss it here, some members of Muse may not see it.
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As soon as I have the patch notes, I'll make comments on them and send them over. However, I do not yet have the patch notes.
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Never mind, found the patch notes.
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How about they join this century? And this forum.
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How about they join this century? And this forum.
Too much to look at- they're busy working on Adventure Mode and the actual upcoming update. I'm doing the forum browsing- and I say that by sending in your info to feedback, that we'll definitely get to consider your findings as a whole.
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Ok, so if they are too busy to look at forums, that makes sense. But the rest doesn't really. Why can't you (or someone else) basically summarize the opinions discussed on the forums for them, either in person, or if it really needs to be, in email. Or even just copy and paste them links to relevant posts.
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Shuddup Moo.
Muse is awesome.
And I'm drunk.
No but seriously they are awesome. This patch's gonna be great, I want to put mines and mercuries everywhere and rename all my ships to "Checkmate".
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Forums are another place to check. When your as busy as the guys up at Muse, it's rather draining work that they really don't need to be doing. That's why CAs are here. We are the eyes and ears in game, in the forums, even occasionally in real life. I wouldn't be doing this if I thought Muse were a bunch of pretentious disconnected money grabbers. Even if I'm complaining about the latest game breaking gun combo with the rest of them, they deserve respect and patience. They've certainly earned it in my eyes.
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No changes to the LJ have been made.
Please re-test everything this weekend. All items of concern have been tweaked. Loch, Field Gun, Mines.
@Moo: I do not know who testers are and therefore do not know what statements are based on actual tests or just pure speculation and hearsay. My work does not benefit from making changes based on speculation. I only look at conclusions that are reached from experimentation and testing. If you are a tester, I'd gladly take your input. That's a good idea to summarize, it would help me a lot. Can you volunteer and do this? There are about 5 threads going on about balance right now but again I don't know what is based on actual testing. Thanks in advanced.
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There wasn't really any structure for how or where (or even if) to discuss the 1.3 "dev" version, so yeah, several threads...
Certainly N-Sunderland and JaceBoojah have been on the test version recently. Presumably the server keeps a log of who has connected when?
Without some kind of changelog, it's hard to know if things are only temporary or maybe even unintended, and when things have been changed and need to be looked at again.
I don't really have any feedback re balance, and I think trying to summarize that kind of thing is easier said than done, given that people's opinions can vary so much.
The only other thread I could find that really had balance-type opinions/feedback, rather than just speculation and reporting of changes, is this one (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1560.0.html).
There's a couple of threads with interface type stuff, and that's more my area...
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There wasn't really any structure
Yes, this is our fault entirely. We overlooked it and I'm paying the price now. This and other things is making my life difficult.