Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: N-Sunderland on July 02, 2013, 02:18:07 pm
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I got some time with this gun yesterday, so I thought I'd share my knowledge while the dev app is down. Later on we can use this thread for strategic discussion and whatnot.
Ask your questions about the mine launcher. Go.
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Why is it so loud?
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Because it launches mines, and it takes a lot of force to do that?
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Does wind effect them?
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How does it deploy? Does it release a string of mines with one shot? How many per clip? How long is reload time? What kind of damage does it do? How much damage does it do? How .. um.. long does it stay in the air? Am i asking too many qustions?
How does it deploy?
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Zill: I didn't see any noticeable effect, but then again the only available map was Sandbox (matches couldn't be joined, unless it was practice mode).
Shadow: It fires one mine per clip. The mine is fired a fairly short distance before it stops and a balloon comes out the top of it. The reload time is very short. Maximum of five mines (per gun? Per ship? I don't know). Once you fire a sixth, the five previous ones detonate. You can make them detonate by shooting them, or drop (REALLY quickly) by taking their balloons out. I didn't see any time limit. I'm pretty sure it does piercing (definitely) and impact (maybe), and it does a whole lot. Running into one with my Mobula wiped out the armour and a bunch of guns and engines.
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Ammo effect on mines?
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The only one I could see being used is lesmok. Damage modifiers from ammo and buffs on the gun won't be affecting those mines.
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I could only imagine loch mines with the ammo properties, lol.
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Yeah... That'd be silly.
A couple of other little facts:
-It took 3.5 seconds of heavy clipped gat fire to take a mine out. I'm still not sure if the mines are counted as mechanical components or hull (likely the former).
-The mine launcher has enormous arc. Like flare gun arc or more. I couldn't really tell what it was exactly, since I only tried it on the Mobula and the top right Spire gun.
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Is there friendly-fire damage? i.e. can it be turned against you or, more importantly, them?
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Do they have an AoE or the ship needs to be physically touching one to take damage?
To clarify, how close do you have to be to the mine to actually take damage and is damage mitigated by distance?
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The AoE is huge. Like seriously huge. If the numbers from February haven't changed (and honestly, it doesn't seem like they have) then the AoE is 80. So no, you don't need to touch it. Just be close to it.
The damage works like any projectile. Damage type one affects the epicentre, and damage type two affects everything in the AoE.
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Weird that they went with piercing damage. I would think maybe Shatter would be more balanced.
You say they detonate the first mine fired if you fire 6. If you place them too close, do they all go? Does that detonation actually do damage?
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Me thinketh my squid has a new loadout.
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Is there friendly-fire damage? i.e. can it be turned against you or, more importantly, them?
There is friendly fire damage. Mass hysteria on the test server when we were using it in Canyons... hehehahehehaaha
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I just realized... I thought the sixth one detonated all of the previous ones, but it might just have been that they were too close to each other. So there you go. They blow other mines up. The explosion should act like a normal detonation (it was hard to test that, and I didn't get around to it).
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Is there friendly-fire damage? i.e. can it be turned against you or, more importantly, them?
There is friendly fire damage. Mass hysteria on the test server when we were using it in Canyons... hehehahehehaaha
Problem is that people just wont go into the canyons when they see mines on the other team.
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Is there friendly-fire damage? i.e. can it be turned against you or, more importantly, them?
There is friendly fire damage. Mass hysteria on the test server when we were using it in Canyons... hehehahehehaaha
Problem is that people just wont go into the canyons when they see mines on the other team.
This is what the test server is for. A possible counter to it is getting there first and firing a Hwacha volley that catches them too close to the mines they just layed out. And there are a lot of different passes. A downside for them is that they cant pass through either so if you circle you have them cornered and if they go to close to their mines that's awesome for you.
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Well as long as I don't have a pyra with dual launchers up front shooting mines at me to kill me in 5 seconds, Ill be less worried.
While friendly fire for mines is pretty much required, it does open up potential for the less honest people of the internet too.
I think Im at a point that Ill have to use them myself to see.
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*put mine launcher on back of Squid*
*go annoy Pyramidion*
*run away*
*drop tar barrel and wait a couple of seconds*
*launch mine backwards*
*wait for epic results*
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Does a tar cloud or sandstorm damage/detonate mines?
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I didn't get a chance to test that. Theoretically they should... Maybe somebody at Muse can clarify?
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Can they be harpooned?
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With friendly fire I see this getting some friendly and suicidal kills. Tar takes too long to do it right, but with something this powerful, it'd be easier to get the kill shot with. For a Pyra getting chased, it just fires the two MLs and runs into them.
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Double front mine Pyra gets up close, then starts backpedalling and firing mines. Yikes.
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I did a brief test with the launcher. It takes 70% of the Pyra's Hull Armour, and 30% of the Permahull. Such, I assume it deals Pierce and perhaps some Shatter damage. I also noted a 5 stack of fire, but this is unconfirmed and highly unlikely.
On the topic of AoE, it is reckless to attempt to detonate the mines on purpose. The damage is substantial, and I suggest popping the balloon instead.
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Twin front MLs on a Pyra.. toe the launchers outward and slot yourself through the middle. Anyone following has to be really careful to either thread the same path you took or make a wider/higher/lower avoiding turn. Likewise front mount on a Junker, as long as you can swing the launcher far enough to the side to clear your own hull you can lave a nice surprise for a pursuer. And it's probably masked by your hull until it's very late for the pursuer to take avoiding action.
This is going to be fun developing new tactics and strategies. I've been looking forward to this every since I spotted Eric had added it to the Weapons table.
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I'd like to know if it's 5 per gun or ship. 3 launchers on a squid...yum. Even one on the back, the hit and run is enhanced with a tar and mine gift as you leave.
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Yeah, I've been really excited about these too. I'm just a bit worried about how they might work against pursuing ships.
On the topic of AoE, it is reckless to attempt to detonate the mines on purpose. The damage is substantial, and I suggest popping the balloon instead.
But if you want to detonate one in somebody's face, you need to go for the mine itself. You can do that with a merc pretty easily and safely.
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....it is reckless to attempt to detonate the mines on purpose. The damage is substantial, and I suggest popping the balloon instead.
Unintentional carronade buff?
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I was going to test placing five mines and taking their balloons down in succession with the lumberjack, but then I realized that Muse [censored] the [censored] [censored] on the [censored] by an [censored] [censored]. I was blown away.
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In order : Increased, Projectile, Speed, Lumberjack, Excessive, Amount.
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Noooooooo Ziiiilllll!!!
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What? Tis a guess <3
I really have had 0 time on the dev app.
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gave it away eh?
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Dammit.
I thought for sure it was boarding.
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Actually, that's not the meta-changing thing I mentioned on the other thread :D
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Oh good, I can still go wack someone with my spyglass.
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At range it's debatable- you'll need a good Merc shot, and also the actual health of the mines is a concern. They don't explode after a couple Gatling rounds, more like 15. I'll have to test with the Merc, but Gatling was ineffective at taking it out.
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It took me 3.5 seconds of heavy clip Gatling fire to take one down. If I knew which multipliers to use I could calculate how a merc does against it.
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Did the calculations. If the mine is counted as hull armour, then it's a two-hit kill from the merc (erm... More armour than the Squid? So it's probably not counted as that). If it's a mechanical component, then it's a one hit kill.
Of course, it could be using different multipliers entirely.
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Questions: Can you pop the balloons of your own mines, or damage your own mines with your guns? If a mine hits a wall, does the mine detonate?
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You can destroy your own mine and its balloon. The only way that mines seem to differentiate between teams is with the number of mines fired.
I was on Sandbox, so I didn't get around to shooting one at a wall.
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Setting mines on fire = time bombs?
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Now that I'd like to see!
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Gah hurry up with the codes Muse!! I'm more interested in these mines than I am the Manta!!!
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Mines in conjunction with carronade:
Cannonade get the enemy ship immobile on the ground,
Mine launcher puts mines above the stricken ship,
Carronade pop the mine's balloon
It starts raining death
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I've got the perfect name for a mine-carro Pyra!
Mein Qwerty
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I can see mines becoming popular in the following gun slots:
Pyra: rear left
Squid: rear
Galleon: rear
Goldfish: one of the sides
Spire: left (or possibly right if the pilot isn't gonna go for the trifecta at all)
I don't see it getting much use on the Junker, and it's likely too awkward for the Mobula.
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Junker mine trifecta front gun and both right guns.
Honestly I think the Junker will be the best mine layer in the game.
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How is the turning radius compared to other guns?
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As far as I could tell, it was flare-like. Turning speed was medium.
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Jesus.
Is there an arming time?
Or can you just slap a bunch on the side of a junker and bomb the hell outta anyone at close range?
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aoe would make you want to not be anywhere near it....
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Jesus.
Is there an arming time?
Or can you just slap a bunch on the side of a junker and bomb the hell outta anyone at close range?
You launch them, and they fly through the air for a moment before they stop and the balloon pops out. I didn't try bombing any enemy ships, but as Shink said you want to be well clear of those things when they detonate.
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Jesus.
Is there an arming time?
Or can you just slap a bunch on the side of a junker and bomb the hell outta anyone at close range?
You launch them, and they fly through the air for a moment before they stop and the balloon pops out. I didn't try bombing any enemy ships, but as Shink said you want to be well clear of those things when they detonate.
I foresee kamekaze tactics.
Be they for trolling or seriousness, I have no idea.
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Kamikaze ramming Pyramidion: front Artemis/mine launcher.
The lesmoked Artemis obliterates their guns and engines from afar, then switches to burst when in range for that extra disabling power. The mine launcher engineer fires a mine that lands right next to the target. The Pyra then runs straight into the mine.
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Or a stronger ship jumping on a weaker ship and peppering it with mines until the weaker dies.
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These things are so damn strong, it'd probably be a double kill.
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I wonder how well a buffed hull withstands a mine vs. an unbuffed hull. That could make the difference when using a mine reactively rather than proactively.
And will the AoE decline with distance or fall off a cliff? The advertised range has always been big, but is it declining with the square of the distance from the centre?
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I can confirm an arming time of 3 seconds.
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I can confirm an arming time of 3 seconds.
UNLESS... you use loch.... carry on
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I can confirm an arming time of 3 seconds.
UNLESS... you use loch.... carry on
Horror...horror
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Christ! They've worked it out! All the secret testing, all of it! Don't do it, you'll release a horror unto the world! SHINK! You madman!
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You really think we would just ignore the potential loch mines possess?
Mines however are silly OP in their current form.
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Of course I don't think you would ignore it, that'd be a distinct lack of ingenuity. I'd hoped people would've ignored it for longer, as having tested this thoroughly, it raises a lot of issues concerning how Muse wants the game to be played. Currently, A double Mine Launcher front Pyramidion can kill nearly all ships with two detonating Lochnagar Mines, and can survive the explosion itself. It's likely we'll see lots of suicide runs with moonshining Pyramidions, rather than balanced brawl gameplay, so for now we shouldn't advertise the Mine Launcher to be used in such a way. When this build does go live I would suggest not abusing Mines, but that's an inevitability as soon as the community at large get to grips with the weapon
All in all, we should be more worried about Mercuries.
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A Pyamidion with double loch merc can destroy any ship's armour with one shot from each gun just before a ram. Yes, even a Galleon's armour.
Not to mention that loch merc plus loch heavy flak is a 2-hit kill against a Goldfish. In fact, loch heavy flak is a one-hit kill against nearly every ship unarmoured, and at point blank, too.
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Of course I don't think you would ignore it, that'd be a distinct lack of ingenuity. I'd hoped people would've ignored it for longer, as having tested this thoroughly, it raises a lot of issues concerning how Muse wants the game to be played. Currently, A double Mine Launcher front Pyramidion can kill nearly all ships with two detonating Lochnagar Mines, and can survive the explosion itself. It's likely we'll see lots of suicide runs with moonshining Pyramidions, rather than balanced brawl gameplay, so for now we shouldn't advertise the Mine Launcher to be used in such a way. When this build does go live I would suggest not abusing Mines, but that's an inevitability as soon as the community at large get to grips with the weapon
All in all, we should be more worried about Mercuries.
Im sorry, but the internet isnt going to "play nice" when you give them the tools to do such things. We can boycott it all we want, but I'd rather not be fighting against them every round because, well, people like meta for some silly reason.
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I don't think that ammo should affect the mines' damage or burst radius. Only projectile speed should be changed. Otherwise you get loch mines, loch mines, and more loch mines.
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Funny thing about Loch mines. Arming time is tied to deploy time. Loch now has -85% arming time. Be careful firing those mines.
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Well... You just have to be moving away from where you place them...
Squid dropping loch mines backwards in the middle of a tar barrel towards a pursuing ship. All that needs to be said.
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I can already imagine teams camping back in their spawns on Canyon, placing mines above every entry, and waiting with their lumberjacks for the other team to appear.
Thank goodness they can be shot down.
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AIs do not fire mine launchers???
This might be a problem. Also, 7 or 8 killed my mobula instantly. A powerful chain could be devastating.
For clip use; really you just need lesmok, as far as I can tell.
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AI doesn't fire them with good reason.
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might be by design... like how AI cannot fire flares...
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Yeah... I'd be pissed if an AI started firing mines everywhere.
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Also, you can't harpoon mines, which makes me a bit sad. Imagine firing a mine, grabbing it, and slinging it into people.
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Also, you can't harpoon mines, which makes me a bit sad. Imagine firing a mine, grabbing it, and slinging it into people.
Do want. I'd put a harpoon on the back of the squid, poon a mine and call it Fido.
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Just cos you can't harpoon a mine doesn't mean that you can't drag someone through them...
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Just cos you can't harpoon a mine doesn't mean that you can't drag someone through them...
Listen Cul, which sounds cooler. Dragging a guy kicking and screaming into a mine, or whirling a mine around your ship like some kind of nunchuk, and finally throwing it at the enemy, devastating their hull armor, and then pounding them with a flak?
That said, I don't think my harpoon mine meta is going to take off. Oh well, it still has potential.
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Two words. Sky torpedo ;)
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Yea, I want to harpoon a mine, that has little to no mass, and suck it into my boat. Seems legit.
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Yea, I want to harpoon a mine, that has little to no mass, and suck it into my boat. Seems legit.
You know you'd love it.
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Yea, I want to harpoon a mine, that has little to no mass, and suck it into my boat. Seems legit.
guess you better harpoon it close to a foe then haha :P
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The ML is working quite effectively as a mortar, as well as the more usual tactical purposes it may be put to. Ammunition choice then becomes very critical for altering the range.
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I was surprised to see more mobulas than mine launchers used last night. So far they make for great ways to create "cover" out of thin air.
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While flying on a Mobula, an enemy squid was placing mines beneath me, and shooting out my balloon so we'd plummet onto them. Annoying, but an effective tactic.
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Mine launcher is a great defensive option for ships like the squid and junker.
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I can easily say I'm in love with this gun. It's so satisfying to have placed a few mines, be using another gun, then BOOM
Zenark has destroyed Balloon
Zenark has destroyed Hull Armor
Zenark has destroyed Whirlwind Light Gatling Gun
Zenark had destroyed Barking Dog Light Carronade
Zenark had destroyed Light engine
Zenark had destroyed Light engine
I can't help but laugh evilly! Mu haw haw haw haw haw! I will master this weapon.
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I love it as well. I was using it on a squid last night with varying results.
Just not sure where to put it on my junker.
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If you want some giggles, go to the sandbox with the new ship, all mine launchers, place all 25 mines on each other...and spawn a ship in them...and watch the overkill.
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Used it today on Canyons with a Mobula carrying 3 - one on each wing and one on the pilots cab. Talk about area denial :D
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Hrrm.
What if you put mines right where a ship spawns? They wouldn't even have a half second to think.
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If you spawn within the proximity of a mine it doesn't explode. Either it's coded into the spawn, or you have to cross into the proximity threshold of a mine to trigger it and spawning within it (and then leaving) does not activate the trigger.
I have a screenshot of a mine floating a couple of feet over the deck of a Mobula, that position resulting from us spawning in the minefield. The mine did not detonate.
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I want to know, since I haven't been able to play effectively recently due to technical issues, do the mines float with the wind?
...if they do...then I wonder if you can launch a few into the sandstorms...and give the guys camping the point a nice present...
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I want to know, since I haven't been able to play effectively recently due to technical issues, do the mines float with the wind?
...if they do...then I wonder if you can launch a few into the sandstorms...and give the guys camping the point a nice present...
When I tested it in dev app, they did not move.
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They don't. Be scary if they did.
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Imagine if there were mines back in the days of the Desert Scrap hidey hole... I'd carronade a few of them down and give Firestone a little surprise.
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Imagine if there were mines back in the days of the Desert Scrap hidey hole... I'd carronade a few of them down and give Firestone a little surprise.
yes....
granted the lumberjack did the same effect back when it had no arming time...
was hilarious.
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I was in a match yesterday with a rear and side mine layer mounted on a squid - during the match we just kept flying around and dropping mines all around the oppo's ships. Near the end of the match an oppo crew memeber types "who ever thought mines were a good idea can s*ck a d*ck" - it still makes me laugh even now.