Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Sugar Honey on June 19, 2013, 12:04:25 pm
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Let me just say upfront, this is NOT a thread to bash the Spire (I hate it myself ironically), I'm simply bringing up the topic of possibly effective Spire builds that I could take into battle in the future because I'm the type of guy who flies heinous ships because he's bored.
First things first: Let's cross-reference some stats, shall we?
The Spire's documented Health and Armor(respectively) are as shown: 650 and 500
Considering this, I'm going to show approx. how much ammo is expended to disable the Spire given certain gun combos based on the damage matrices under the Gameplay section of the site. Please correct me if I haven't done my math correct. Assume all conditions are perfect.
Gat/Flak Pyra - 43.33 rounds/4.8 rounds
This combination coupled with a ram is only a few seconds of playtime for the Spire before certain doom, and yes we've all seen components raining down on us as we completely obliterate it this way, don't lie.
Merc/Merc Pyra - 2.8 combined rounds, y'know... because there's two of them.
Either sitting abroad, disabling everything on the Spire with each hit (and hilariously each miss), or gaining the perfect interval with which to ram with something akin to an insta-kill, this combination is deadly. The only salvation is a supportive teammate or a counter sniper to disable the Pyra's mercs... what are the odds of that?
Carronade/X/X From some god-awful balloon-popping goldy - 1.9 rounds to keep the Spire on it's knees.
This is self-explanatory. Once the Spire is down there's no recovery from a balloon-popper. Uninterrupted it will keep driving that poor, defenseless hull into the dust until it becomes dust itself.
Oh goodness me, what time is it here? 9:00 in the morning and you haven't slept you say? That means I leave what I put down for you to pick up... until I'm back of course. Have fun! And I swear to god if anybody gets on here just to bash the Spire...
I..
will..
find you.
.
.
-_0
Keep one eye open
...
Cheers!
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OH!
Silly me... herp da derp.
http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Spire (http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Spire)
http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/ (http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/)
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Personally, I don't fly Spires, but I always saw them as the perfect sniper build.
Put mercs where the light weapon slots face forward, some flares on the light spots that don't, put a lumberjack or heavy flack down below, and viola! a sniper platform.
These should only be used in capture maps, because they're just easy kills in DMs.
I swear to you, today, I joined a 2 v 2 with a Spire who had a heavy carronade and flamers. He also insisted on leading the charge. They were 4 out of the 5 kills (I tried to ram the broadside of a galleon off of him in a last-ditch effort. Didn't end well.)
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Some times you just have to sit back and let your ally burn. A good captain will know when they should rush in to save their ally and when they should hang back and avoid the meat grinder. Fortunately with a newbie in a spire for an ally that decision is pretty easy to make.
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I have to disagree with the Captain, I think Spires are horrible snipers. There's really nothing a sniping spire can do that a Galleon can't do better. The spire somehow even manages to be a bigger target. I think the strength of the spire is its immense alpha strike ability, delivering massive amount of damage in one close range volley.
Have you ever tried a heavy carronade - mortar - gattling spire? The damage output is nuts, I mean really, really nuts.
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I am more of a fan of the double Gat/Manticore build with flare left side gun. The Mantiore can pull the teeth of a pyramidion at long/medium range and is a great finisher when the hull armor goes down. The problem is that the Spire can only do this to one ship so against a coordinated team it is pretty much screwed.
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The Spire can fit both Sniping and brawling builds, the advantage to the galleon it has is that it can keep going forwards or backwards while firing and it brings more light guns facing on one direction.
The problem is, the Spire is still too slow to close distance fast and isn't tanky to be a proper brawler, it's also not as manuverable as other ships to fit as a sniper too well either. It's also stupidly vulnerable to mercuries, probaly the only ship you can destroy by solely using mercuries.
Personaly, I mostly use it as a support with a Lumber, Mercury and Artemis. Sometimes Hwacha Spire with double gatlings, but honestly I think that this is just a troll build, in reality it's not effective if your enemy takes advantage of the fact that you have a Spire and brings even one mercury.
EDIT: and as Hamster mentioned, you have the best 1v1 potential, but by the time your enemy coordinates against you, you are pretty much scrap metal.
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Personally, and while these are builds I seek to try in the future, I have had tremendous success with a spire on Desert Scrap. I sit on the point and when some bugger comes rolling around the cylindrical walls we pepper them with gatling fire, a hwacha, rotate on the reload to hit them with a top-right carousel or flak, and finally I have a flare or flame-thrower on the bottom for tormenting the crews that didn't bring extinguishers.
I love the turn speed it has and often found myself jumping off the helm to mount a gun, usually resulting in our definite capture of the point and game... however...
I was a fairly low level when I began my experimentation with different ships and, around this time, the gat/flak combo became the go-to guns for any low-level pilot to utilize for a quick and painless severance of the Spire. It was a great method, mind you, but I feel kind of scared going back to the spire without fighting in Scrap and without a teammate to help guide me along.
Regardless of all this, I think I'm going to summon my special crew and try out a brawl and sniper build to see which ones I like better... perhaps get some more flight time with this ship and find out if it ends up working or not. I like being versatile, and I hate seeing my Spire sitting useless and alone as I scroll past it to a more favorable ship.
If you guys find anything that is grade-a, please post here, I would love to know. If not I'll surely comes across you in game when the Spire makes its comeback and dominates everyone in its gritty reboot sequel or something.
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I may not be the best person to listen to when talking about tactic but...
I personally like Spire. Maybe because I like the design. Maybe because I'm tired of constantly flying on Pyras and Junkers (oh, and obligatory with gatlings and flacks). Or maybe because it can be a good ship.
As it was mentioned, Spyre can be deadly if it's the one who shoots first. Generally that's' the tactic when it comes to a duel. IMO it's a great ship for tight maps like Labyrinth where it can appear from nowhere and deliver a killing strike. The lack of horizontal speed can be substituted with good vertical movement. I had a tactic one on Labyrinth that I hid my Spyre in the clouds near the ground while our ally was above the clouds. When enemy struck our ally we suddenly raised from clouds, turned and destroyed them.
But generally it all depends on other crews. I don't consider myself a good pilot so maybe I just had noobs to play with, but I found some loadouts sometimes effective sometimes not. A typhon + mercury + gatling is generally effective for long range combat if you won't allow enemy to get to close. And a setup with manticore + gatling + flack can be effective for tight maps.
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and I hate seeing my Spire sitting useless and alone as I scroll past it to a more favorable ship.
If you guys find anything that is grade-a, please post here, I would love to know. If not I'll surely comes across you in game when the Spire makes its comeback and dominates everyone in its gritty reboot sequel or something.
Yes, I kinda feel sorry for not going Spire anymore cause it's realy not the most effective ship and I absolutely love its design.
As for loadouts, there's realy only 4 main ones, since the Heavy weapon you will have equiped will play a major role on what else you bring.
1st Loadout: Lumberjack, Support Sniper.
Lumberjack bow.
Mercury bow.
Flare gun dock.
Artemis starboard.
2nd Loadout: Heavy Flak, Finisher Sniper.
Heavy Flak bow.
Mercury bow.
Flare gun dock.
Artemis starboard. (Change for Gatling if more mid range)
3rd Loadout: Heavy Hwacha, Brawler glass cannon.
Manticore bow.
Gatling bow.
(Variable) dock.
Gatling starboard.
4th Loadout: Heavy Carronade, 'I don't even' build.
Heavy Carronade bow.
Light Flak bow.
(Variable) dock.
Gatling starboard.
At least those are the most popular I have seen on Spires.
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4th Loadout: Heavy Carronade, 'I don't even' build.
Heavy Carronade bow.
Light Flak bow.
(Variable) dock.
Gatling starboard.
Taking that 4th loadout speaks of a contempt for that meta that is ballsy to say the least. Either you are facing an opposition that is so weak that you can flaunt your disdain for the meta or you have achieved some godlike flying/shooting prowess that us mere mortals can not comprehend. Either way my hat is off to anyone who can take that build and still win.
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1st Loadout: Lumberjack, Support Sniper.
Lumberjack bow.
Mercury bow.
Flare gun dock.
Artemis starboard.
Yup
2nd Loadout: Heavy Flak, Finisher Sniper.
Heavy Flak bow.
Mercury bow.
Flare gun dock.
Artemis starboard. (Change for Gatling if more mid range)
Perhaps not grade a but so much fun. Works really well if you have good synergy with your teammate and can have them body block incoming ships. Nothing like seeing an ally pyramidion deflect an incoming ship with a ram while you shove a flak up their tailpipe for the kill.
3rd Loadout: Heavy Hwacha, Brawler glass cannon.
Manticore bow.
Gatling bow.
(Variable) dock.
Gatling starboard.
Try Flak starboard. It makes an amazing finishing gun for the captain to use. It's incredibly gratifying to see the enemy armor get dropped by the hwacha and gattling and jumping on the flak to finish them when they think they're safe. With good gunning this easily can kill a charging pyra before they make the ram.
4th Loadout: Heavy Carronade, 'I don't even' build.
Heavy Carronade bow.
Light Flak bow.
(Variable) dock.
Gatling starboard.
This actually used to be a viable build before they nerfed carronades. That's one of the reasons I'd love to see them back so badly. One of my favorite ships to fly ever was a Spire with a front mortar starboard side gattling and heavy carronade. You could basically charge in gats blazing, pop the balloon break the armor and have the top deck gungineer run over to the mortar and just rain down hell on the target that was below you and couldn't return fire since his balloon was locked down. Absolutely brutal and guaranteed kill if their ally didn't help them. Used to shock the heck out of opponents who had never seen anything like it, sadly this was only possible for a few weeks.
By the way not sure I agree with most of the math at the top of the post. Double check your multipliers. I think that may be it.
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Actually, just before I went to sleep last night, I though of something.. a more agressive mid range Lumberjack Spire with a Flak or a Mortar on the upper deck bow instead of the Mercury.
You still have the Artemis to disable enemy weapons, the LJ can clean up their armor no problem with a decent gunner and the Flak/Mortar can finish them. Definately gives you a little bit finishing power if you feel like getting closer for a fast kill cause the LJ realy doesn't do much Perma hull damage, so if you trust your gunner, definately try this as well.
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Last night me and another captain were flying two Spires in Peritan Rubble (I think that's the name) we named our ship lefty and righty.... It was the funniest thing I've done in GoIO.
Anywho, we lost because we were mostly playing around, but we still surprisingly got a few kills. It seems two Spires working together could be quite formidable.
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I did a carronade spire (tow barking up top, one heavy below) It was quite effective until it came time to actually finish the kill because the Spire just can;t get low to the ground and the carronade is still idiotically unable to look down at all.
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I did a double harpoon, hwatcha spire once...
I was...more effective than you would think. Granted the double harpoon made the ships swing behind you...but that's what tarbarrel is for...
Don't quite remember if that was before or after the mass update.
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Polaris won a Cogs match with the old Spire using double Carronade. Used to be really good when they could aim down.
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Okay, I found my optimal Spire build right now... or whatever you want to call it, but I'm running a medium-range sniper/brawl combo build with hwacha and merc on the stern guns. Left and right respectively are flare and light flak.
It works... BUT...
I haven't gone solo and I'm a bit wary. We disable the living hell out of anything that comes at us including pyramidions and goldies, and so far I have a couple deaths out of the three or four matches I flew it in, so amazing success.
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I am gonna go Double Gat + Manticore Spire today. Wish me luck.
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Double gat? Ermm..... Okay, lol. Think if you're running gats that you should us a hwacha because of range issues, but I suppose a lochnagar or heavy clip should extend the range of the gatling if I'm correct.
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Double gat? Ermm..... Okay, lol. Think if you're running gats that you should us a hwacha because of range issues, but I suppose a lochnagar or heavy clip should extend the range of the gatling if I'm correct.
The Manticore is the Hwatcha if I'm not mistaken. And you're thinking Lesmok. Lochngar breaks the gun with single rocket.
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The Manticore is the Hwatcha if I'm not mistaken.
You're not.
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Yes, I meant to say Lesmok. :I
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Letus and I just did a lumberjack / fieldgun / light flak spire. That was... so much fun. He used the standard lumberjack stuff, and I used Lochnagar shot. I was ripping open balloons and hulls in one shot with that piercing stuff.
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Sorry guys, the drugs they gave me for my surgery are messing with my head... so all guns are pretty much the same for the next few days.... idgaf.
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Letus and I just did a lumberjack / fieldgun / light flak spire. That was... so much fun. He used the standard lumberjack stuff, and I used Lochnagar shot. I was ripping open balloons and hulls in one shot with that piercing stuff.
I do love using those rounds. A lot of pilots hate when Gunners use them though. If used right, I think they're pretty effective. Challenging, but fun.
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So I tried out the 2Gat/Hwacha Spire today with some people, it can work with a good crew and a decent ally, any games we won, were pretty close and it's pretty hard to handle it. Also, Mercuries are still a problem and don't get me started on Lumberjacks..
I'll call it 2gatcore for now.
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I like that very much, Echo X)
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Keep in mind that it's still far from being effective, we had some luck on our side and didn't get horribly double teamed, even though my ally was pretty sub par during those games, the games we won were harsh and were in non-open maps except that one time in Dunes.
This ship, it's not realy not effective- well.. not as efficient as one would want it to be, it's very hard to pull off a trifecta without backfire from the enemy and the moment they can backfire, you will break like a piece of thin glass hitting the floor. It's way too risky for the rewards it offers and breaks way too easily, I honestly can't see how the devs can just say it is 'working as intended' while it's not even worth using over anything else other than just having some fun I guess or if you like its looks.
The more I think about it, the more I want that secong gun on the top deck to be facing bow, so it can get 2 mercs and a heavy gun on a single target, then it might be worth using over the Galleon sometimes, it would still be horribly fragile for an airship of such mass, but at least it would put out a lot more damage for what it;s worth.
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Never forget how close the helm is to the top gun. Yes it's difficult, but if you put a flak on the starboard mount and preload it with heavy, a slight tweak to the wheel and 2 seconds off the helm can get a life saving kill.
No Pyramidion can charge into gat and hwacha fire without losing it's armor at least once, some well placed flakshots will make sure it never arrives at its intended destination.
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The problem is, on a Spire, you only have 500 armor, a Pyramidion has 650. Now if we assume that you have all your guys on the weapons, you won't be getting that exta mallet stroke in and leaving helm to man a gun while you are going close range with a Spire has proven to be a deathwish when I tried it so you need a third guy on top deck manning a gun, which makes the armor difference even bigger, the Pyra now has at least 650+250 armor, just throwing that out there as a thought of why I equiped a second gatling.
Though I can see where you are coming from, in an ideal situation you should have an ally with you that will help with taking their armor down in a proper manner and time while you disable and still keep DPS on them with a Gat/Flak. Anyway all I can say is that I will give it a try, better than flying a Metamidion for sure.
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Well, not sure if I've understood exactly what you meant.
But when I brawl with my Manticore Spire I do it in two ways:
If there is no enemy firing on me because I've gotten the jump on the enemy or for some silly reason they're focusing my teammate I'll have all crew manning weapons.
In the more common situation when we're being fired upon, I'll have the main engineer camping the hull. If fired correctly the chain gun and manticore will drop the pyramidions armor first. Not only will you have a dps advantage but if you have a good gunner you should be able to disable their weaponry. Once the enemies armor drops at close range(which can happen easily with the chaingun manticore combo) I'll usually give the wheel a slight turn so that the momentum of the turn carries the guns into arc by the time I get to the gun to put on the sweet finishing shots with the flak.
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That's what I expect to hear, as I have done it myself even for the longer ranged Spire. It realy depents on the enemy's movement, if they are just coming straight at you, it's possible, but still risky to leave the helm on a Spire, I have had a lot of bad experiences with the ship turning around by itself randomly due to wind.
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I feel that the spire has a lot of utility, which people overlook. If you shoot something like the hwacha, the gunner can hop off of the gun during the reload and run to the bottom-left gun, and have the top-front gun join its firing in a bifecta. On a sniper medium weapon, the gunner could also opt for the closer-ranged left bifecta when the opportunity arises. Likewise, the two top guns can do their own bifecta. Deciding what gun goes where, and what works the best together, is definitely the key to making the Spire work. There's only so much that an engineer can do beyond buffing the hull, so its up to the top and bottom gunners to make it work.
My build is top-front Artemis, top-right Artemis(for the right bifecta disable), bottom-right Gat(For left bifecta damage), Lumberjack(for harass at all other ranges).
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Decided to try out Carronade-Gat-Flak today as well and along with the 2Gatcore loadout, I have to say, they both work realy good on Canyon Ambush if you have a competent teammate and crew as well as some other of the tight maps. It's massive alpha strike is pretty cool and the terrain helps with ambushing.
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I popped a Flak, Sniper combo on my Spire and although it's only a dual-weapon loadout, we bested a junker and a goldie. Our friend who was in a pyra got two of the kills from his gat flak, but at two points it was us one on one with the junker and then again with the fish. Even at close range (which I quickly escaped) we managed to sink the enemy and repair our ship whilst holding the other enemy at bay with the starboard flak and keeping them in our scopes with the portside flare. We effectively went 5-0, convinced the enemy to take Spires next match and turned it on them with our pyra. XD