Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Redorio diVario on June 09, 2013, 05:31:08 pm
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I'm beginning to get a bit worried about the game. I've started playing GoI on April 21 and at that moment when playing usually about 21:00 - 23:00 (GMT+2:00) game had about 80-150 players waiting. In May there was this sudden influx of players caused by YouTube advertisements by known game reviewers. Average number of players waiting at that time was about 400 reaching sometimes even to 1000 or more. But now I don't see them. When I've been playing recently (well I don't play every day but let's say 4 times a week) I've noticed again just 70-150 players waiting. What happened to those players from may? Where are those 1000? Or even 500? And if they left then why?
That rises another, not really pleasant, question: What is the lifespan of GoI? How long will the skirmish mode be fun? Adventure mode is planned on July 2014, right? Does the current game really have content to provide fun for over a year to majority of players? It's normal to say that, as everything, GoI can get boring after a while. I'm already noticing it with my friends. I started to play GoI with 9 friends. After a month only 3 of them are still playing it. Maps are slowly getting known, same with ships. Are there enough ideas for skirmish to be released before Adventure Mode in order to keep the game entertaining?
Because if no, then... is there any pessimist scenario?
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After every spurt of advertising, sale, whatever, there will always be a spike in player numbers, followed by a dropoff a few weeks later. People's gaming attention span is always split between many different genres, types, so this should come as no surprise, in fact I'd say that a 1/3 retention rate among your friends is actually a pretty damn good amount. I wouldn't worry about it too much, even if Adventure mode isn't for another year new maps are getting released all the time, and we'll be finding ourselves with a new ship fairly soon as well.
Let me put it this way, when I bought and played this originally many months ago, there was maybe at the most 10-20 people in the lobby at a time, the numbers that are around now are far superior.
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i can only speak for myself but i'm not playing much atm cuz i wait for a new patch to arrive. could be the same for many people i guess...
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Actually the game is a lot healthier than it was when I got it. When I got it back at the beginning of the year you'd be lucky to find more than a dozen people on. Then the Russian invasion hit and sales came. Populations around those times have really jumped. You don't really get a sense of it because the lowbie matches sorta hide half the population from the others.
The patch did impact some. 1.2 has been probably the messiest patch I've seen since I started. Partially because that massive surge hit and the servers tanked. Then theres just retention rate. Out of all the copies I've gifted, at least 2 ship crews worth + my original 4 pack. Only 2 of them kept playing. Rest tried it, then went back to other games. At least one had game ending bugs which crashed his game every time. I told him to contact Muse on it but he's more involved in CS:GO so he just never did. One got in a dozen hours or so then wrote a bad recommendation of it and went back to heavy CoD playing so that tells you a lot about his attention level.
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I don't realy write this happily, but honestly, this game will probably never be widely popular despite how much I want it to be. People today just lack the attention span to play anything that requires even half the teamwork levels of GoIO, most will just join in, get owned and leave without even trying to improve cause they are too spoiled by every second generic shooter out there that doesn't require your brain to work at optimal levels to perform well at it. Basically, GoIO is just not as casual as your average game, it sure looks like it, but it isn't. People will just go to their 'main game' after some matches and it's realy sad.
At least that's what happened with most of the people I know, out of the 7 people that bought it, only 2 of them play it anymore and only if I personaly ask them to, so that's enough to prove to me that they aren't realy interested by themselves and just do it to play a game with me, nothing else. One of them said it got boring like anything else 'we tried' and went back to just playing League of Legends like most of them did.
We have been playing that damned game for over a year now and I've already been fed up by how fucked up MOBA games are since DotA 1 for pete's sake, I'm so sick of that game so I'm realy happy I found GoIO at least.
/rant
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There is a lot, and I mean a lot of speculation, research, time and money poured into the question of why people leave a game in droves all of a sudden. But the amount of time it takes is fairly consistent, about 1 month.
Thats the time frame any game really has to see that huge population boom, a month.
It kinda begs the argument to be made, why invest in server technology for people who aren't going to stick around and play? You already got their money, they had the experience of play, they move on.
Some have described this as the rise of the casual low risk high reward kind of game play. Many marketers are pumping money into that part of the industry along with industry giants to try and make a killer profit on what use to be considered, and justly named, "Shovel ware".
Muse themselves have even made some killer mobile products for cash injection, http://www.creavures.com/ is a good example of high quality art paired with a simple but entertaining mechanic. But it's designed for limited interaction, play it for awhile, forget it. We've got a huge generation of gamers who have been raised with that principle and they've got tons of choices to go and play with.
It's no longer the days of Baldurs Gate being one of 4 CRPG's that would release in a 2 year span.
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I have only been playing since february, but this seems to be the life cycle of the game, drop and rise, and repeat, I joined on a steam sale and the population was a good number, dropped down to less than 10 at around midday UK time, spiked again due to a sale and the russian stuff, dropped, spiked for TGS, dropped, spiked a bit more for 1.2, and dropped again. I wouldn't be too worried, and I have never actually been unable to play when I have wanted to.
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The secret to never wanting to stop is joining a good clan like the ducks, and getting into the competitive scene. There is no other game I know of where I can compete with the absolute best players in the game.
Also being a part of the games development is nice.
I also feel like if I stopped playing I would be missed. Ive never played a game like that.
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Jace is right, I often say that either you play competitively or you stop playing, and while that's not strictly true, joining a community is essential to keeping interested.
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The heavily team-oriented play in the game makes it so that even non-pros can keep up with the competetive players, that and you don't have limitless potential, something I notice with engineering, particularly on the Pyramidion, I can only run so and so fast and I can't be everywhere at once, much of the engineering anyway comes on routine, which is kind of relaxing to be honest, and yeah joining a community is a good idea to keep interest, particularly with team-based games like this, personally I am trying to join the gents after some short discussion with one of their higher-ranked members, can't quite remember the name though, maybe MasX, I've definitely played on the same team as him though.
Man, I'm long-winded.
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Its a one of a kind competitive scene in this game.
Think about it. FPS titles, RTS, and DOTA stuff rely on reflexes and speed alone. This creates a huge barrier to entry into competitive scenes. I've seen the competitive guys play SC2 and they just move so blistering fast that I just always scratch my head and ask "how is that fun?"
It is a generation built upon instant gratification gaming. CoD, mobile games, and the like. People rage about games with less than 6hr storylines but often times folks don't seem to want more than that if even close to it. Can tell based on the impatience in players forming lobbies and the overuse of the quick join button.
But this, you fly or die based on your team. Takes effort, takes commitment. Some folks can't stand the idea of relying on teammates. Heck it was a slight mindset change for me from Battlefield where I do simply fight alone. Mostly because no one I know in it likes to play hardcore mode. No one talks or uses voice either. Better in those cases just to use allies as meat shields.
It does get frustrating in Guns having a fail pug crew. But what is great is...the ones who listen can quickly improve and go from fail to fantastic. Part of the problem isn't them either. Most of the time they share horror stories of bad pilots they had to endure. Folks can't really get decent in this game when they fly under pilots who park in front of hwachas.
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Its a one of a kind competitive scene in this game.
Think about it. FPS titles, RTS, and DOTA stuff rely on reflexes and speed alone. This creates a huge barrier to entry into competitive scenes. I've seen the competitive guys play SC2 and they just move so blistering fast that I just always scratch my head and ask "how is that fun?"
It is a generation built upon instant gratification gaming. CoD, mobile games, and the like. People rage about games with less than 6hr storylines but often times folks don't seem to want more than that if even close to it. Can tell based on the impatience in players forming lobbies and the overuse of the quick join button.
But this, you fly or die based on your team. Takes effort, takes commitment. Some folks can't stand the idea of relying on teammates. Heck it was a slight mindset change for me from Battlefield where I do simply fight alone. Mostly because no one I know in it likes to play hardcore mode. No one talks or uses voice either. Better in those cases just to use allies as meat shields.
It does get frustrating in Guns having a fail pug crew. But what is great is...the ones who listen can quickly improve and go from fail to fantastic. Part of the problem isn't them either. Most of the time they share horror stories of bad pilots they had to endure. Folks can't really get decent in this game when they fly under pilots who park in front of hwachas.
yeah I see impatient people all the time in the lobbies, they join, wait for a minute or two at most while not even saying a word, then leave, I just don't understand them, sure, instant gratification is fun now and then, but that most games nowadays need you to basically be The Flash in the form of a gamer to be competetive just is disappointing, I like better slower-paced games like this where if being an engi you can relax if you get into a good rythm with the hull and side engines(all on the pyramidion, I love being a hullgineer on that ship.) and maybe even the balloon if the placements are right.
Basically I like that the game needs planning and jolly cooperation to do good and not just "insane haxor speed skillz"
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There have been many surges and drop offs in my time playing GOI. After each drop off the number of residual players are always more than the last drop off. GOI is a very Niche game, it won't appeal to everyone, but as far as I can tell we still haven't reached all the people that it will appeal to.
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Roy and I where talking about something like this earlier. Been playing for a while and I think icarus is getting boring gat/flak
Icarus needs a ton of new content to keep ppl wait for adventure mode
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Ah, so in general there is no need to worry that in 6 months there will be no one to play with ^^.
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There is plenty of reason to worry that will happen, that was the fate of the original Guns of Icarus. We as a community have the power to prevent that from happening. Be nice to new players, teach them how to play and how to work as a team. Commend the crap out of every one. Most importantly don't be a jerk.
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Roy and I where talking about something like this earlier. Been playing for a while and I think icarus is getting boring gat/flak
Icarus needs a ton of new content to keep ppl wait for adventure mode
The new ship and weapon type should be a pretty nice breath of fresh air.
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Hello, I'm one of the new arrivals from the recent May surge, and I wanted to chime in to let you know that not everyone from it is going to forget about it so quickly.
Other folks in this thread have already done a good job explaining the way player-base surges tend to seem to work in GoI (As well as most games, esp. competitive team based games.) Not everyone has interest in sticking with a game, no matter how creative fun or unique, over the long term, especially with so many other titles to pull on their interest out there (Some of them, more easy to learn and succeed in.)
However, if with every ebb and flow of players, some little percentage of the inflow finds they genuinely love the game, and care about it's fate as more than a passing fancy (Such as with myself, and judging by your posts, I would say you too Mister diVario! And many more in this thread and on this forum.) then I wouldn't be too worried about the overall fate of the game. In this way, it builds a dedicated player base of people who enjoy, and in a lot of cases want to improve at the game--and this is a good and positive core player base to have, even if it isn't as large as those of more hulking games... But then, have you seen the horrors in some of those? lol
As far as I've seen in my short time aboard, I've noticed a lot of the older players are genuinely rather friendly and helpful. Hell, some of those early captains I got made me all the more enthused for the game--they were nice, talkative, and funny, and after the matches were said and done I actually thought 'months or years down the road, when I'm in that position, I'd like to be to some new players like they were to me.' Long as the community has these sorts, no matter how slowly it grows, I think it'll be stable. HamsterIV put it rather succinctly.
ALSO SHOUT OUTS TO MUSE WHO DEFF SEEM TO BE CONSTANTLY AT WORK TO EXPAND THE GAAAAAAME
They can't constantly pump out new ships and weapons--I mean c'mon, they're indie and they already made this crazy game!--but I think in the end this will be all the better. I'm absolutely looking forward to both the announced and unannounced stuff planned for this game in the future. <3
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Wouldn't worry.
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Roy and I where talking about something like this earlier. Been playing for a while and I think icarus is getting boring gat/flak
Icarus needs a ton of new content to keep ppl wait for adventure mode
Think we should have a Fight the Meta tourney where teams are not allowed to use traditional meta weaponry. Problem is we can't rely on flamers because Chemspray is too Op. Carronades are dull and don't aim well enough. Mines will probably bring some new play elements in but honestly I doubt they'll shake things up drastically. Until flames return to their previous form where they knock guns out instantly, the meta won't change.
In the end I don't think adding guns will ultimately work. Folks will slip into optimal loadouts anyways. So I go back to an idea I still support. Changing the ammo system. Making the ammo change the effects of the guns.
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the problem with a fight the meta tourney, is that we then create new meta.... so then we wouldn't be able to play that meta, forcing us to create even more new meta.... It's a vicious cycle!
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Think we should have a Fight the Meta tourney where teams are not allowed to use traditional meta weaponry. Problem is we can't rely on flamers because Chemspray is too Op. Carronades are dull and don't aim well enough. Mines will probably bring some new play elements in but honestly I doubt they'll shake things up drastically. Until flames return to their previous form where they knock guns out instantly, the meta won't change.
In the end I don't think adding guns will ultimately work. Folks will slip into optimal loadouts anyways. So I go back to an idea I still support. Changing the ammo system. Making the ammo change the effects of the guns.
re: chem spray being OP, most people I know switched over to extinguisher. and re: making the ammo change the effects of the guns, is this not what they do already?
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A crew with chem can keep components coated and make flames useless. It is op compared to what it used to be. Which was just a 40% ignite reduction. I use extinguisher mostly because people are using flares more. But chem spray is used by a lot.
The ammo change I'm talking would mean completely changing it so ammo changes the type of shot from the gun. Or change the secondary dmg effect. Imagine shatter with mortars at close range. Or heavy flak with piercing. Then gunner switches to explosive ammo to crack the hull. Gunner as a class would be revived. Balancing it would be another thing but doable.
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A crew with chem can keep components coated and make flames useless. It is op compared to what it used to be. Which was just a 40% ignite reduction. I use extinguisher mostly because people are using flares more. But chem spray is used by a lot.
The ammo change I'm talking would mean completely changing it so ammo changes the type of shot from the gun. Or change the secondary dmg effect. Imagine shatter with mortars at close range. Or heavy flak with piercing. Then gunner switches to explosive ammo to crack the hull. Gunner as a class would be revived. Balancing it would be another thing but doable.
Ah, gotcha. That'd definitely mix things up quite a bit and make it so more guns are useable in more situations, but as you said it'd be a big undertaking to make sure everything was balanced given all the possible combinations.
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Not to derail too much, but that's just a good way to make people pick the most damaging weapon and never change.
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Better than that, I think the way to bring back the gunner class is to give them a 20% or so reduction in reload times.
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We all know (well most) about the thread dealing with gunner suggestions: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,410.0.html
Lets get this thread back on track.
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The track of "Make GOIO an accepting community where new people are welcome and we will never have to fear empty servers?"
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Roy and I where talking about something like this earlier. Been playing for a while and I think icarus is getting boring gat/flak
Icarus needs a ton of new content to keep ppl wait for adventure mode
Think we should have a Fight the Meta tourney where teams are not allowed to use traditional meta weaponry. Problem is we can't rely on flamers because Chemspray is too Op. Carronades are dull and don't aim well enough. Mines will probably bring some new play elements in but honestly I doubt they'll shake things up drastically. Until flames return to their previous form where they knock guns out instantly, the meta won't change.
In the end I don't think adding guns will ultimately work. Folks will slip into optimal loadouts anyways. So I go back to an idea I still support. Changing the ammo system. Making the ammo change the effects of the guns.
sounds good or we can just have random fight the meta matches
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The other option is to embrace the meta. I don't fly anything but gat/flak pyra. For me, the focus isn't on finding some weird non-meta set of weapons that CAN sorta work. It's about training up new players to be able to hold flak and kill with a clip and a half. Getting that first day gunner on the gat to hit NOTHING but hull, and never fire a stray shot. Making sure the swabbie engineer doesn't worry about engines during the fray, and always babysits hull with a spanner.
Sure, I guess I could intentionally take a ship or loadout that has a much less chance of getting a kill, but I'm not about to. Sorry. I run I high risk and high yield ship; I pilot us right into the middle of the slop and totally depend on our crew to get us out. If they can't do it, we die. But more often than not, I get the rag-tag bunch of new players rallied together, and we slaughter the competition. My entire crew comes out of the mess able to hold almost any team together with what they learned. Maybe meta isn't fun for you, but I will always fly it. ;)
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I am a May purchase. One of those from the TGS wave. I too was a little discouraged at the severe drop off in numbers online after a few weeks. However, what I have noticed is that as those numbers went down, the quality of the players seemed to go up.
Suggestions: Cultivate your friends list. People that you like flying with, or against, tell them you are friending them and encourage people to do the same with you. The only time I turned away from playing one night was because I opened the game, went to the social tab, and no one was online. Since then I have developed a rather large base of people to play with.
I can honestly say that I play Guns with none of my friends from other games or irl. All the people I play with in Guns, I met in Guns.
Also, don't be afraid to get your butt kicked. I know it can be frustrating. The learning curve can be a bit steep, but once you get to a certain point you will realize that the supposed "best of the best" aren't all that much better than you. The curve is steep, but there is a bit of ceiling (a mallet can only repair so much no matter who you are).
Use the voice chat in the lobby. Get to know some folks. Give and take advice.
I have no fear of this game disappearing because I am involved with a very active group that will not let it disappear.
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Another May player here, one that really loves the game and has no intention of stop playing it anytime soon.
One thing I think would help new players a lot is constructive criticism, this is a game that is really hard to master expecially as a pilot and there are a lot of small things that one should know in order to perform better.
I had a game where just for a change I gunned instead of piloting and ended up with 2 newbies against 2 high level veterans. The game was a slaughter, I did my best to advise my captain via voice chat but the other team had this smug "L2P" attitude that made the poor guys (evidently a group of friends) leave.
That isn't anything new in online games, but in THIS game I think it's a toxic attitude that serves no purpose.
A fair bit of sportsmanship in this game is really needed.
Also, in an ideal world Muse should really promote the game even more, I think it sort of went under the radar for many people, advertising would be a very good thing indeed. But I understand that resources may be limited.
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Roman hits it on the head. The difference is not super great between vets and newbs. But there is a perception of it being really vast.
That is when problems come in and the L2P attitude gets used. Vets do try to help out and teach but often we find players who just don't want to learn. One of the CAs tonight I piloted for found out why I have one player on my block list. When he joined and the CA tried to help the player told him repeatedly to F-off and took heavy offense to being helped.
I've ran against a lot who QQ all the time but when you try to help them they respond harshly or they just spout a lazy line that they don't like it so they don't want to learn. Mostly this involves pilots. They perceive it to be too hard so they never want to try. Then they just twiddle thumbs on guns shooting clouds.
When you have to deal with a lot of that, you just stop caring and say..."read the manual, watch a guide" or "L2P"
I'm glad the surge is down a bit because yes it weeded out a lot of the crap players from the quality ones. Trouble is, how many quality ones got lost because of the crap ones? Can't have CAs giving everyone a good experience in game when you have numbers in the thousands.
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Roman hits it on the head. The difference is not super great between vets and newbs. But there is a perception of it being really vast.
That is when problems come in and the L2P attitude gets used. Vets do try to help out and teach but often we find players who just don't want to learn. One of the CAs tonight I piloted for found out why I have one player on my block list. When he joined and the CA tried to help the player told him repeatedly to F-off and took heavy offense to being helped.
I've ran against a lot who QQ all the time but when you try to help them they respond harshly or they just spout a lazy line that they don't like it so they don't want to learn. Mostly this involves pilots. They perceive it to be too hard so they never want to try. Then they just twiddle thumbs on guns shooting clouds.
When you have to deal with a lot of that, you just stop caring and say..."read the manual, watch a guide" or "L2P"
I'm glad the surge is down a bit because yes it weeded out a lot of the crap players from the quality ones. Trouble is, how many quality ones got lost because of the crap ones? Can't have CAs giving everyone a good experience in game when you have numbers in the thousands.
What you describe is a troll, not a regular newbie.
In the situation I described both newbie palyers were actively asking for advice and trying to understand what they did wrong but what they got where answers like "we know how to use our ship, you don't" and things like that. When I politely pointed out that they were being a bit douchey I got more elitist smug crap like "we were just pointing out facts" and stuff like that.
Don't justify the L2P attitude, if it's a troll you ignore it, if it's a legitimate inexperienced player you have no excuse for not trying to help him and no justification to insult him. At most, you can just ignore him if he seems uncooperative or too stubborn.
One time I had a 9 years old kid in my crew that constantly shouted ALL THE TIME and hardly followed orders but with a bit of patience and undertanding I was able to put him to good use, turns out the kid was a crack shot with the lumberjack...
I don't think that I should push my idea further, being polite and helpful to other players shouldn't be something that needs to be justified.
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I'm with Serenum here.
I am a newbie myself and I hope the people better versed tell me what to do and what not to do with the guns or components. If the higher-up is being nasty, I just grit it until the game ends and vote with my feet.
But if we want to have a growing player-base, we have to endure the donkeys on both ends of the learning curve.
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Then yeah you had some bad experiences there. I've maybe only come across a few vets who might act like that. Most of the time if a newbie asks a question, they'll get answered. Heck I'd like them to because I personally hate getting into the middle of a fight and then they ask how something works. Then it comes up...why didn't they ask in the lobby?
Only guess I have is some folks are scared to approach us. Then others don't have mics. If they don't have a mic thats fine, they can type and we can instruct.
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I definitely get ornery if my crew isn't talking.
I tend to start not talking because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or something.
It's a cycle of terrible.
My biggest problem is tunnel vision. It's difficult to constantly watch the chat in a match. Even in lobby I tend to just glance at it now and then, messages are easily clobbered.
I usually try and help out newbies, but my inexperience as a gunner does not serve me well there. I can engineer and fly, but I'm pretty horrid remembering which ammo does what.
That said, I fly with people better than I am just so I can learn. I watch and ask dumb questions. I appreciate people who ask and question, rather than assume A) I know more than them cause my numbers are higher or B) They know more than everyone on my ship, in spite of our experience.
Either way, the best thing anyone can do is talk, listen, and generally be a stand-up guy or gal.
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One time I had a 9 years old kid in my crew that constantly shouted ALL THE TIME and hardly followed orders but with a bit of patience and undertanding I was able to put him to good use, turns out the kid was a crack shot with the lumberjack...
I don't think that I should push my idea further, being polite and helpful to other players shouldn't be something that needs to be justified.
Was that me? I think iwas on your ship once, when I was using the worst mic ever, which was from 2005 and low quality. and that was my first game.
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One time I had a 9 years old kid in my crew that constantly shouted ALL THE TIME and hardly followed orders but with a bit of patience and undertanding I was able to put him to good use, turns out the kid was a crack shot with the lumberjack...
I don't think that I should push my idea further, being polite and helpful to other players shouldn't be something that needs to be justified.
Was that me? I think iwas on your ship once, when I was using the worst mic ever, which was from 2005 and low quality. and that was my first game.
I don't think so, I'm pretty sure the nickname was something about Minecraft... Anyway even if it was you, as I said you did allright in the end, so that's what matters, beside I'm sure you improved a lot since then. :)
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True, when I was on your ship I think it was a double gat pyra.
One time I had a 9 years old kid in my crew that constantly shouted ALL THE TIME and hardly followed orders but with a bit of patience and undertanding I was able to put him to good use, turns out the kid was a crack shot with the lumberjack...
I don't think that I should push my idea further, being polite and helpful to other players shouldn't be something that needs to be justified.
Was that me? I think iwas on your ship once, when I was using the worst mic ever, which was from 2005 and low quality. and that was my first game.
I don't think so, I'm pretty sure the nickname was something about Minecraft... Anyway even if it was you, as I said you did allright in the end, so that's what matters, beside I'm sure you improved a lot since then. :)
And i didn't do alright, I was a second gunner who babysitted a side gun half the match, then left to get my wits together in sandbox, and I'm not 9, though I sound like it.
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Ah, so in general there is no need to worry that in 6 months there will be no one to play with ^^.
I really don't even see this game in 2 years having nobody to play with; What we have here is a community of players who all Enjoy or dare I say LOVE! The current game; Myself including in the Love part.
But what I'm trying to get at is that this game is still being updated and continuously improving itself (Adventure Mode) Is the next example. To myself somebody who greatly enjoys the whole Concept of being an actual crew on a ship instead of being the ship it's fun. Granted I still play other games but are you going to tell me that you play one game and ONLY one game at a time and don't get bored?
I have a healthy cycle of games I enjoy to play for the simple reason I don't get burned out or bored of the game. GoI is a great game to jump on and just fly with :P I also love the music :D!
Sorry if that seemed kind of rant-ish; that's just my personal opinion on this matter :)
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And i didn't do alright, I was a second gunner who babysitted a side gun half the match, then left to get my wits together in sandbox, and I'm not 9, though I sound like it.
Then it wasn't you, the kid I was talking about explicitly said that he was 9 when asked in the lobby. :)
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I'm of the opinion you should be at least 15 to be allowed on the internet.
Now I just need to get my dictatorship off the ground... anyone know some cheap island nations?
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As one of those may players, and someone who hasnt played for a month but just came back to see if there's an update, I had a few reasons why I stopped playing
1- lobbies. Most games you just jump into the action, but this game has a lot of downtime where you have to wait for that last 4th player, or wait for a pilot, or play with/against AI which is not fun to me, I like to play with/beat other ships with real people.
2- variety of gameplay. i got really tired of having to play engineer 90% of the time. pilot is usually reserved for older players, gunners are usually limited to 1 and then the pilot asks you to switch to engy. Also got tired of playing on pyramidions, and when I did get to play on a cool ship like squid we always lost. this lack of variety has mostly to do with balance of ships/classes/guns
--> If there were more classes (which I dont think is planned) or even sub-classes (Co-Pilot, Main Engineer, Associate Engineer, Main Gunner, Associate Gunner) and those classes had distinct sub-roles then itd be more fun
3- no social aspect. should really have an integrated clan feature. this game is really meant to be played with friends, then it gets really fun. if you're running solo, ur gonna get tired of it quickly. and thats what happened to most may players
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1- lobbies. Most games you just jump into the action, but this game has a lot of downtime where you have to wait for that last 4th player, or wait for a pilot, or play with/against AI which is not fun to me, I like to play with/beat other ships with real people.
I guess this really depends on when you're playing. I don't mind waiting. I tend to chat or alt-tab while waiting for the game to start. This is a fair point though, there is a bit more downtime than typical.
2- variety of gameplay. i got really tired of having to play engineer 90% of the time. pilot is usually reserved for older players, gunners are usually limited to 1 and then the pilot asks you to switch to engy.
Balance is rough. I've actually found a large amount of room to experiment with different play styles/weapons.
Engineers can gun almost as good as gunners for most ship/guns. Two gunners... well, you might die a lot. I take enough damage that having two engineers is far more useful. That's just the way it is. You could always try asking people for a turn in a role.
Also got tired of playing on pyramidions, and when I did get to play on a cool ship like squid we always lost. this lack of variety has mostly to do with balance of ships/classes/guns
Yeah, Pyrs are easy, but not teh best ship. At least at the level I play at, each ship has it's own role and is useful/fun. Ship choice doesn't lose you the match usually.
--> If there were more classes (which I dont think is planned) or even sub-classes (Co-Pilot, Main Engineer, Associate Engineer, Main Gunner, Associate Gunner) and those classes had distinct sub-roles then itd be more fun
But what would they do? Why would you need them? This seems like an over complication that wouldn't make the game easier. Plus it's hard enough to get four good people on a ship. What would a co-pilot even do!? (Jesus take the wheel!)
3- no social aspect. should really have an integrated clan feature. this game is really meant to be played with friends, then it gets really fun. if you're running solo, ur gonna get tired of it quickly. and thats what happened to most may players
WOAH. False. False false false.
This is something you have to kind of be active about, but I play with an awesome clan. We chat and hang out, and I talked to them and played with them a bit even before joining the actual clan. I have lots of friends across the clans, and enjoy playing and talking to all of them.
You've got to put yourself out there man.
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They're also working on some in-game clan features for the next update. At least clan tags, and I think some join matches as a group stuff.
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As one of those may players, and someone who hasnt played for a month but just came back to see if there's an update, I had a few reasons why I stopped playing
1- lobbies. Most games you just jump into the action, but this game has a lot of downtime where you have to wait for that last 4th player, or wait for a pilot, or play with/against AI which is not fun to me, I like to play with/beat other ships with real people.
People need to exorcise a little bit more patience, imo. I swear if a game doesn't start within 10 seconds of someone joining a game, they leave. Baffles me to no end.
2- variety of gameplay. i got really tired of having to play engineer 90% of the time. pilot is usually reserved for older players, gunners are usually limited to 1 and then the pilot asks you to switch to engy. Also got tired of playing on pyramidions, and when I did get to play on a cool ship like squid we always lost. this lack of variety has mostly to do with balance of ships/classes/guns
"Reserved for older players" is something that's really in your own head, honestly. I've seen plenty of lower level players pilot and be quite adept at it. Yes, you'll want to be comfortable flying the ships that you do, but the only way to get that experience is to, well, do it. If someone else insists on being captain or piloting but you still want to work on yours, you're certainly under no obligation to give into their requests.
As for gunning, if you're on a ship with two engies already and the captain tells you to go engie as well, just tell them that you're working on your gunning. If they then throw a hissy-fit, just block the person and find another ship (there is some point to not actually needing to be a gunner to be a gunner currently but that's an entirely different topic). And if there's a gunner already, well then, find a ship that doesn't have one already :)
There's also certainly no lack of variety of ships, they all have their purposes, strengths, weaknesses. It's up to you to find out what works well when, and can especially mixed up if you're able to talk to the other captain about how you want to go about in a game plan.
--> If there were more classes (which I dont think is planned) or even sub-classes (Co-Pilot, Main Engineer, Associate Engineer, Main Gunner, Associate Gunner) and those classes had distinct sub-roles then itd be more fun
Sorry but, wha? What exactly would this accomplish that can't be done be simple in game communication? Heck, what would a co-pilot even do o.O?
3- no social aspect. should really have an integrated clan feature. this game is really meant to be played with friends, then it gets really fun. if you're running solo, ur gonna get tired of it quickly. and thats what happened to most may players
I personall ran solo for... quite a while and never got tired of it. While the game (and any game) is enjoyable when you've got friends along, that doesn't mean you can't make them in game. A high amount of folks in the game are incredibly friendly and supportive, but if you're closed to the prospect of talking to others in game or here on the forums, yeah, you won't really get anywhere.
Also, iirc, clan/team/guild/whatever support should be in game in a near future patch.
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This is something you have to kind of be active about, but I play with an awesome clan. We chat and hang out, and I talked to them and played with them a bit even before joining the actual clan. I have lots of friends across the clans, and enjoy playing and talking to all of them.
You've got to put yourself out there man.
Yeah when I'm talking about social aspect, im saying a clan interface actually integrated within the game. Right now, you have to go out of your way, go into the forums or chat, and ask to join a clan. This is out of the game. I want it integrated within the game. Put tags around before name if you're in a clan, for example. Something this minor can go a long way.
Also when I was talking about sub-classes,they dont have to actually be different from the main class. There's already subclasses without the title, as in having 2 engineers on ship but one as Gungineer and one as main engineer. it'd just be cool to actually differentiate them
Thanks for all the response though.
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The clan stuff you're talking about is coming soon. :)
As for subclasses, I actually love the ambiguity. I love that engineers can gun and gunners can repair (hell, even pilots can if they really wanted to). I wouldn't like such strict subclasses that dictate exactly what you're going to be doing; I like that a captain can utilize his crew members in different ways regardless of the class they choose.
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"Reserved for older players" is something that's really in your own head, honestly. I've seen plenty of lower level players pilot and be quite adept at it. Yes, you'll want to be comfortable flying the ships that you do, but the only way to get that experience is to, well, do it. If someone else insists on being captain or piloting but you still want to work on yours, you're certainly under no obligation to give into their requests.
As for gunning, if you're on a ship with two engies already and the captain tells you to go engie as well, just tell them that you're working on your gunning. If they then throw a hissy-fit, just block the person and find another ship (there is some point to not actually needing to be a gunner to be a gunner currently but that's an entirely different topic). And if there's a gunner already, well then, find a ship that doesn't have one already :)
There's also certainly no lack of variety of ships, they all have their purposes, strengths, weaknesses. It's up to you to find out what works well when, and can especially mixed up if you're able to talk to the other captain about how you want to go about in a game plan.
Haha I just wanted to give you my own opinion, you're not really changing my opinion at all. Yes I do think the 2engy+1gunner set in stone for every ship = lack of variety. you even stated I might as well find another ship or another game if there's already a gunner. There is definitely a lack of variety of ships as you cannot play a game without seeing a pyra, but you can definitely go without seeing a squid. As for guns, well hwacha/flak/gatling are very very popular. I'm not saying the others are inbalanced (as others are harder to shoot) but like I said, lack of variety
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Haha I just wanted to give you my own opinion, you're not really changing my opinion at all. Yes I do think the 2engy+1gunner set in stone for every ship = lack of variety. you even stated I might as well find another ship or another game if there's already a gunner. There is definitely a lack of variety of ships as you cannot play a game without seeing a pyra, but you can definitely go without seeing a squid. As for guns, well hwacha/flak/gatling are very very popular. I'm not saying the others are inbalanced (as others are harder to shoot) but like I said, lack of variety
Actually a lot of ships will run 3-Engi, while ships with heavy guns will want at least one Gunner on them so there's that. Variety in ships comes with experience, less experienced pilots will mostly try piloting ships that are pretty straight forward, the Pyramidion being a great example, just point and shoot at the enemy, so that might be one of the problems, if you play a lot of DM do not expect to see many Squids as they are not realy fit for DMing other ships and while possible, maily achievable if the captain has a lot of exprience and is playing against lesser opponents.
Other than that, I have seen many Junkers, Goldfishes, Galleons, heck even some Spires on the matches I have played so far, is the Pyra being realy popular that bad of a thing?
Only thing that I believe need something more about it is the Spire and maybe then you'll see more of these.
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IMO the game will last if its community is diverse. I built the Falconeers from scratch and alot of the guys say the only reason they still play is because they can hop on any time and play with people they like and know.
So finding a clan or building one of your own is probably the best way to keep people interested. Rather than being stomped or slaughtering in every match you can balance it out between clan teams and have great battles.
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Rather than being stomped or slaughtering in every match you can balance it out between clan teams and have great battles.
Clans do provide certain "quality-check", but it is not failproof.
I think "Education Clan" would be something worth researching in GoIO. I mean, I'd want a few matches where both we and the enemy were under the tutelage of someone well-versed in the game. it shouldn't be restricting, though, and the people could be in another clans, too.
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I think "Education Clan" would be something worth researching in GoIO. I mean, I'd want a few matches where both we and the enemy were under the tutelage of someone well-versed in the game. it shouldn't be restricting, though, and the people could be in another clans, too.
Have you ever tried the Training Days? https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,35.0.html
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I kinda run a stream for teaching new players almost every day twitch.tv/ofiach. It's there to let players learn from my flying (or crashing) and along with training days and CA help there really is no excuse for new players who actually try to learn. I learned almost everything from the forums, I'm giving people a video to watch and the ability to ask questions in real time. I mean maybe it isn't flawless I'm not the best pilot ever but its a tool that I didn't have and all you have to do is go to a website and type in some questions.
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Me and my team purchased the game back in October and played it pretty heavily for a few weeks, unfortunately at the time there really weren't any community events going on as the community was still finding its feet and so we moved on to other games. I've been wanting to get back in to the game for months and finally we've returned as a team with plans to enter future tourney's such as the Cogs and maybe even host a couple of tourneys ourselves. This is a niche game and so it'll never have a huge population, much as those of us who love it would like it to.
As long as the community is passionate and we continue to see players organising events I think this game is fine. I mean the only other game communities I've seen with such a passionate community as GoIO has are usually MMO's. GoI's competitive scene continues to grow and as others in this thread have said even the most casual players have a chance of competing against the more experienced competitive players unlike in other games because of the unique team based nature of the game.
Our team also has three regular streamers who have a decent number of subscribers on Twitch between them, they'll be streaming most of our gameplay sessions and maybe that will bring in a new player or two :) If as many members of the community as possible spread the word about the game then that's a start. Even if only one new player out of every ten sticks with the game then IMO it's worth the effort.
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So generally, what I understand from your posts is that in order to stay for long with the game you have to be a part of the community. I know it may be a silly question since this game is cooperation-based and everyone who bought it was aware of the fact that he can't be a lonely wolf here but...
Does is mean that without the community the potential of the game highly is limited? Do players who are not interested in events, joining clan etc won't find the game interesting for long?
So maybe it would be wise to encourage players in-game to join the community? Most of them don't know about the forum (because this is the heart of the community, isn't it?). They don't even know that an account has been created here when they registers for the game xD. Maybe there should be some advertisement in the game "Join our community on forum!" or something else.
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So generally, what I understand from your posts is that in order to stay for long with the game you have to be a part of the community. I know it may be a silly question since this game is cooperation-based and everyone who bought it was aware of the fact that he can't be a lonely wolf here but...
Does is mean that without the community the potential of the game highly is limited? Do players who are not interested in events, joining clan etc won't find the game interesting for long?
Have to? Absolutely not, but it does enhance the value of the game. Like any multiplayer game, you can play it flying solo in random matches, but it gets much more enjoyable when you start to find people you like to play with, especially in a game such as this where everything depends on how well your crew gels.
You get as much out of this game as you put into it, imo :)
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If I hadn't found the community, I really doubt that I would be willing to put up with the frustration of players who don't communicated well.
Your performance is sort of an average of the skill of everyone on your ship. Feeling chained down by people you don't know is a really rough thing. Being chained down by people you do know/are friendly with isn't quite as bad, especially since you get to see them improve over time.
For me, the community makes this game. Without it, it's fun but frustrating.
With it, I can't imagine ever putting this game down.
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Frankly, it's actually nice, in my opinion, now that that huge wave of YOLOCODSWAGHASHTAG is gone...
was not enjoyable...definitely when people who have only seen the vids on youtube and have only put 4 minutes of game time think they know more than someone who has been playing for months.
Nice part was easy kills...and that they were the ones that really got me into lumberjack again...
But always the community. I'll come back, stay back, just because with everyone I like in the game (and need to put into the stalker's list,) we almost make half of a sane person...
It's really fun when you're in a game and talking nonchalantly about any random topic as you just casually shoot or die...
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Actually a lot of ships will run 3-Engi, while ships with heavy guns will want at least one Gunner on them so there's that. Variety in ships comes with experience, less experienced pilots will mostly try piloting ships that are pretty straight forward, the Pyramidion being a great example, just point and shoot at the enemy, so that might be one of the problems, if you play a lot of DM do not expect to see many Squids as they are not realy fit for DMing other ships and while possible, maily achievable if the captain has a lot of exprience and is playing against lesser opponents.
its more of a "don't tell me, show me" sort of thing. If I'm experiencing something different, who are you tell me that its not real haha you can tell me that this game has a lot of community features and variety all you want, but that is your own experience. the idea that you have to invest into the community to get into the game, well thats the case for every game. dont get me wrong, i dont hate this game, i just played it for a week and it didnt pull me in. and im sure there are people that it did stay interesting. and im sure there are games you've played that you didnt stay with after a week or a few days. thats just how the cookie crumbles. but i do think its interesting enough that i check in every once in awhile to see if they added new guns, new ships and that clan feature - because like i said, the lack of variety is what made me stop playing. i also think that small chatbox is way too small, at least to be able to instill any feeling of community. many conversations get scrolled up for ppl LFG. i dont think relying on the forums is a good way to build a community, that is an out-of-game experience. but this is all IMO
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Sure I agree, forums only aren't the best way to build up a community, sure the chat box isn't as large as I hoped it would be, but then again, improvements will be made, a clan feature is in order already and there's a lot of time ahead of us to updates. If the game only hooked you for a week and then you left, then you probably wouldn't have stayed anyway, cause yes, you are right, I have played games for a week as well and then left, when that happens it's usually you not actually liking the game that much, not the lack of community interaction. I didn't even interact with the community for my first 2 weeks.
Variety in guns will come with more updates as well, if you can't wait, well then, I can't help you with that.
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its more of a "don't tell me, show me" sort of thing. If I'm experiencing something different, who are you tell me that its not real haha you can tell me that this game has a lot of community features and variety all you want, but that is your own experience.
Fair point. But really, we're trying to tell you what worked for us too.
It's like advice, take it or leave it, but it's how we see it and it might be helpful. We're suggesting workarounds, cause that's usually how things are fixed until official fixes come out. Those take time. For me, I've never had a problem creating my own variety inside games! I don't really expect other people to fix their behavior or product for me, I find ways to work within 'the box', but I'll occasionally push on the sides.
The promise of updates is kind of frustrating, but that's just modern indie games for you. The update cycle is continuous because it can be.
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Sounds like hes given up. When it gets to that point, there is nothing you can say to convince someone to come back. Let him go, he'll forever miss out on what we are talking about and we won't have to waste anymore time on this. I have friends who quit this 15hrs in and then went back to playing CoD nonstop. I don't even bother with them. Not going to let their short attention spans keep me tied up instead of flying.
Forums are great ways to build communities. Just getting people to use them is the problem. Which is moronic when you think about it. People can log in and sit on Facebook all day but aren't capable of doing the same thing on a forum. Which is literally the SAME THING!!! Facebook is just a simplistic and prettied up forum tied together with other people. Boggles the mind how people can be so lazy online. Dealt with it a lot in guild management in TOR and WoW before that. Finally got to the point we would not accept new recruits unless they demonstrated the ability to fill out an application on a website. We'd ask them,"did you visit the site? All the info and strategies are posted there." They'd say "There's a site?" Then it would take them about a week to 2 weeks just to get into it. A site which had info posted in information sections of the guild for all to see...major /facepalm
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But, as I said, most people don't know about the forum. The community is not being advertised. How else do you want people to join it? They are not aware of the forum's content, purpose, they don't even know that their account has been created here when they registered. In-game forum is mentioned only once as a place to provide feedback and submit bugs, so that's what most people think of it.
I will risk saying that also the dark layout of this forum is quite depressing and not attractive. Makes it feel like a boring place... ^^'
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Guns of Icarus is a game where knowledge is power. That much was apparent on my first game session. Any one seeking knowledge these days turns to Google, and Google sends them here. Alternately some people just don't want to learn. There are plenty of other games out there which don't require as much knowledge.
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But, as I said, most people don't know about the forum. The community is not being advertised. How else do you want people to join it? They are not aware of the forum's content, purpose, they don't even know that their account has been created here when they registered.
I always direct new players to the forum after I train them up a bit. I let them know that there are all kinds of wonderful things like informative guides, clan sign ups, and fan content.
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New player has joined GoIO!
New player thinks Hwacha is AMAZING.
New player has had a bad match.
New player thinks Hwacha is OVERPOWERED.
New player quickjoins as anything but an engineer.
New player now thinks the community is bad =(.
New player has found the forums!
New player tells community what he thinks. =(.
New Player: YOU GUYS ARE SO MEAN AND THIS GAME IS GONNA FAIL W/O ME =(
The Community: Hey man! Don't worry, you haven't met all of us. We're pretty nice really =)
New Player: EVENT! CHOOSE YOUR PATH
EITHER
"Oh, awesome!" (Proceed to scream at your newbie crews from now on to go engineer because you don't need a damn gunner on a squid)
OR
"NO NOOOOO THE COMMUNITY IS BAD BECAUSE I SAID >:("
/Guns of Icarus Online natural progression of new players.
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Well, I feel lucky I joined the game with a full ship of friends despite them not realy playing anymore.
To humor myself according to the above post, I also thought the Hwacha was amazing at the start and well, it is an amazing weapon to shoot and it does some nasty things to enemy ships. Although we had a ship for ourselves, figured out that having at least 2 engineers is nessesary realy quickly and we just went with that from then on.
I'm still not sure why some of the newer players act like cavemen when told something, it's like the intelligence factor has dropped dramaticaly, I guess there are some realy stupid people out there, humanity never ceases to suprise me. Either that or people are realy bored to learn how to play a damn game.
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Well, gamers today are used to either stupidly easy game mechanics (shoot that guy who isn't on your team. Sometimes there's a flag or bomb or something, but you can still win if you don't worry about it.) or a tutorial that holds your hand and tells you each and every thing about the game in 5 minutes or less.
GoI is neither of these, which is why I love it.
Having to ask others how to do pretty much everything strategy wise really adds to the social/teamwork part of the game.
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Is it just me or there has been an increase in active players lately?
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I noticed an increase in players in the last two weeks, too
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There have been sales and Steam Trading Cards, among other things.
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I started playing back in December '12, and around February one of the patches introduced a bug where the mouse input wasn't being read unless I played in windowed mode, so I waited for a bug fix and restarted playing once that came about. I'm also starting to run into players I saw around back at the start of the year coming back into the game again having taken a break from playing it.
As far as I'm concerned what I really like about this game, besides the gameplay itself, and what I think Muse has got 100% right, is the way the game encourages people to co-operate, rather than focusing on individual scores and beiing uber, even the most skillful players will lose unless they have both a working crew and a working team.
On top of that the long term player base is exceptional, I was in a match last night, tense, closely fought, despite vastly mixed player levels and length of in-game time played. In the post-game lobby all the players remarked on how enjoyable the game had been, best summed up by one of the other captains when he said "That's Guns of Icarus".
Yes there are matches from hell too, but it is really something special when there is that spark and sixteen or twenty four individuals suddenly gel.
If I have a few have reservations, it's about clans, having been in a few clans in my time and also played games where it was impossible to play without being in a clan, where the in-game culture was run along the lines of prison gangs, join up or expect to be continually beaten up and/or have all your stuff taken, so I hope implementation will be handled as well as the individual experience side of the game. That said I'm not criticising people who wish to be in clans, nor the existence of clans themselves, but simply clans just aren't for me.
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Sounds like hes given up. When it gets to that point, there is nothing you can say to convince someone to come back. Let him go, he'll forever miss out on what we are talking about and we won't have to waste anymore time on this. I have friends who quit this 15hrs in and then went back to playing CoD nonstop. I don't even bother with them. Not going to let their short attention spans keep me tied up instead of flying
haha I specifically said in my quote I'm regularly checking back for updates. Why does everyone act butthurt when ppl don't like the game they're playing. They're always like "Ah, we didn't need them anyway", and they say that about every person leaving until you have like 20 ppl left saying that to each other. And they always try to discredit them by saying they play COD, like that is the universal go-to game to trash someone on web lol anyway it seems they came out with an update, so im here to try it out.
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always try to discredit them by saying they play COD, like that is the universal go-to game to trash someone on web lol
For me it's Counter Strike and its brand of l33t0 grandstanding. I actually have CS but never play it in multiiplayer cos the teaming sucks so bad (ooh ooh n00bs lets farm them to buff our K/D ratios). The fact GoIOL is the daimetric opposite to CS is one of its main attractions for me.
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I don't think it is sour grapes, but you can't convince someone to play a cooperative game if they don't want to be cooperative. This game tests that cooperation more than any game I can think of.
Not cooperative = selfish. Selfish = COD
Any questions?
I think people get "butt hurt" because people complain about things that are inherent to the game. And that the game should be bent towards them instead of them bending to the game. If you can't bend, don't play GOIO. Honestly, anyone who has played GOIO for any amount of time knows that unbending players -- those that refuse to learn or listen, etc -- are no fun to play with and bring the game down. GOIO is better off without those players. Most games are better off without those players.
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The game play experience is volatile. It means that as an individual it's hard to have a stable and predictably good experience each time I play. As a new player, I'm by myself and have no established relationships with other GoIO players to form my own sense of community. So I roam from game to game and what I've learned is that my patience has grown short.
GoIO is the kind of game that works best when everything comes together as it was envisioned and designed too. The players are knowledgeable; the players are willing to participate, interact and communicate with each other; the teams are balanced and not stacked; the teams are setup with ships and crew that well configured for the type of strategy to be employed.
Most important is that all the players are reserved to playing together, as a group, which means making concessions in the interest of everyone having a good game. That means playing certain ships, certain roles and on certain teams that may not be a players primary choice.
In an open and public environment where strangers come and go, each with their own motivations for playing, having all of the above elements come together in an optimal way is rather unlikely. That goes for any publicly played multiplayer game, not just GoIO.
When it does happen, it's marvelous. In any game.
What I have found in the few games that I've been playing is that the favorable conditions are less likely to appear and instead I've been subjected to repeated games of failure. The majority of games ending in Blow-Outs 5-0, 7-1, 600-0 and so on. To me, that's not fun... not fun to be on the losing end and certainly not very interesting to be on the winning team either. It's not as exciting when there is no sense of a competitive contest. I've been on frustrating crews of disjointed players. Pilots, a very crucial role, who can't fly their own ship, steer into dust storms, crash it into terrain obstacles and just drive straight into overwhelming numbers. Gunners who are never on a gun, never on the right gun, or are spending more time fixing the balloon then shooting the enemy killing it. Engineers who haven't figured out that repeatedly hitting the hull with a spanner doesn't fix it faster, it only disrupts the guy with the mallet trying to save the ship.
I've played several games where the ship dies quickly several times in a row and then the pilot quits the game, followed by another player until it's just me and the AI.
I've sat in the lobby waiting to start a game only to see the teams become stacked, Captains who refuse to ready up forcing everyone to wait for minutes on end, captains ready up and then ready down to reset the clock. Meanwhile I'm sitting at my desk drumming my fingers waiting to play and listening to some guy drone on like the voice coms are amateur night at the improv. Ironically that same guy then speaks not a word while actually playing the game, except to complain about how much player "X" sucks at doing job "Y".
There is only so much a player will tolerate before rendering judgment on the game as a waste of time and souring their impression of it. We then quit and go play other games that provide a more consistent play experience.... and yes, sometimes that means playing another game of Call of Duty, because as tired and played out as it is, at least it's consistent.
If I didn't really want to play GoIO and make it fun, I think I too would be gone already, having played less then 40 games. I'd be back playing World of Tanks, WarThunder, Planetside 2, or one of the dozens of games I bought on Steam Sale and have yet to play.
And I think many players are in the same "boat" as me, feeling the same way... except not nearly as tolerant and motivated to hang in there to make it work for them.
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Schpam,
You certainly bring up a lot of good points. It's definitely frustrating to be consistently on the losing team and often it's not really due solely on bad piloting but on bad captaining and organisation as a whole; where someone is not effectively coordinating crew and teammates within the context of a deeper understanding of strategy. Also as you point out it is made so much worse when those "captains" themselves leave in the middle of the game. Something I've been seeing happen so much more over the last few months which I fear may soon start to be an accepted norm. Pilots leaving mid battle ruin the match for everyone.
The reliance on other players skill and organization towards your own success is single handedly this games greatest strength and weakness and I think that we all play for that moment when it works. Unfortunately this leaves little recourse to your main grievance other than playing in an environment when everyone knows what they are doing.
This is something that Muse is slowly but surely making strides towards. As the game and community increase their ability to educate and teach newer players we should be seeing an increase in the base level of skill of our newer players hopefully improving the gameplay experience for everyone.
In the meantime I highly encourage you to join one of the currently existing clans as right now it is one of the most reliable ways to play with a group of individuals who understand the game and are predisposed to cooperation.
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Schpam
I appreciate what you're saying, I was forced to take a break of a few months and coming back I had to start from scratch as far as finding crew mate was concerned. However you'll find that if you play frequently you'll start to see the same names. Something I do is add players to my friends list if I've had a good match with them so they'll stand out in the lobbies.
When I have a run of bad matches in one role I'll switch, it can be quite interesting to see how someone else pilots or guns or engies and you can learn a lot about the game too. While levels are not exact indicators of ability they are fairly consistent with the amount of knowledge a player will have in the game and you can base your choices around that.
Look for the list of CAs in the "Social" area and ask to crew with them if you feel you're stuck.
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Schpam I know it may seem tough that you are getting crap guys on your ship, but the fact you are willing to continue playing this game even with those factors is what makes a good player on this game. We stick around and we see these idiots everyday. You will find that the actual guys who are worth playing with are actually really good and give a damn about what you have to say (excluding me). Find a group of guys you get on with and play with them it may make the teams stacked but that's just how this game goes. Also hang in there because this game is actually one of the best out there, you just got to get over the crap players.
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Schpam
I know what it's like to be on a team or on a ship where either the crews, captains, or sometimes both are unable to work correctly with each other, everyone doing their own thing and not coordinating towards making the ship and or team effective. We've all been there at least a few times, where you're losing game after game and you aren't having fun doing it. As previously mentioned you'll more then likely see many recurring names over and over again, If you find having a good time with them you should probably add them and join games with them from time to time, having a good group of players that you can count on to make the game fun and exciting even if you're losing horribly, some people from what I've heard over my time here have bought the multi packs and played with friends they already have, sometimes they quit and sometimes they don't.
I think you should keep trying to find people you enjoy playing with, even if you think all of what I've just typed out is a load of incomprehensible nonsense, the point still stands that attempting to build connections with your fellow players would be best, not everyone is willing be a team player, and not everyone is willing to learn from their mistakes to be a better player, and sometimes the teams are stacked, sometimes that's just how things go in a match and it isn't the greatest thing ever, but sometimes you get people you work well with, even if you don't win you've at least found someone bearable to crew with, it may take time but those people are out there as long you're willing try.
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Hey there, Schpam.
What you're experiencing is something I like to call the natural progression of new GoIO players. Look it up in the pit to see where you're falling along that line, if you're so inclined.
First thing: This is a team based game, and it gets very competitive. If you're just joining in (you're level 1-3-1, so I have to assume you haven't been playing for several months) you might find that many of the other players around you are higher ranking than you are. You might also find that some of those higher ranking people like to fly together. This is something that will happen, and not something that will go away. There are, however, mitigating factors to what you call the "volatile" experience that you're getting out of your online play.
The first of those would be PRACTICE. I can't count the number of new players I've seen quickjoin a ship without touching the sandbox. Spend some time there, learn your weaponry.
The second would be the COMMUNITY. Contrary to what every new player ever likes to swear on his or her second week in GoIO, the community is incredibly receptive to new players in that on the job training routinely occurs, and there are even TRAINING DAYS set up for players in different regions, all around the world. Look for one of these training days, learn your job, and you'll find you aren't killed quite so quickly.
Another avenue you might find some benefit from would be the Cogs streams that occur almost every week, barring the occasional extra tournament. These streams will allow you to see what a functional ship looks like, and you might even be able to pick up on the individual actions taken by team members.
Unfortunately, you're not going to see some major change in the game that allows it to be fun for you. You're going to need to learn your role, find like minded players that are learning their own role, and roll with that crew. When you know what you're doing, and you start pulling in the wins, go be the change you want to see in the community.
That being said, I'm telling you...the community here is far more accepting of newbies crying "foul" than any other community I've ever heard of.
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btw Schpam I saw you in the lobby of one of the matches I was in last night, just before some weird crash that seemed to fling everyone offline. if you see me online say Hi, I'll say hi right back at you.
To further what Charon was saying about training.
I usually try to organised a focussed training session when I'm on and yesterday I ran a thing on crewing a pyra, with 2 level 1s and a level 2, the level2 was all "ahh I know how to play and I'm a gunner" yet he was the one who couldn't fix his gun when it went down because he only had a fire extinguisher, and didn't have the correct ammo for the gun he was supposed to be using, or where he was supposed to be firing and why. This is because he couldn't be bothered listening to what I was saying "because I know how to play".
I'm not suggesting this is your case, but that I'm guessing this is the kind of player Charon has in mind, they are the bane of captains and crew alike, and coincidentally the only kind of new player people object to crewing with :D
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That being said, I'm telling you...the community here is far more accepting of newbies crying "foul" than any other community I've ever heard of.
This is true. Often times they'll side with new players rather than vets. Which is also how the community could eventually fall apart. Been around long enough to spot that as long as you are a new player you are treated like a king but the moment the community gets used to you being around, you'll be demonized when you try to speak up about some of the stupidity.
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That being said, I'm telling you...the community here is far more accepting of newbies crying "foul" than any other community I've ever heard of.
This is true. Often times they'll side with new players rather than vets. Which is also how the community could eventually fall apart. Been around long enough to spot that as long as you are a new player you are treated like a king but the moment the community gets used to you being around, you'll be demonized when you try to speak up about some of the stupidity.
Wow, way to take a positive statement and twist it to something completely different. There's actually zero amount of evidence to support something like this other than "because I said so". This just reeks about being bitter that some do not agree with stuff you say.