Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: N-Sunderland on May 18, 2013, 11:01:20 pm
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So Muse revealed the newest ship today, the Manta Ray (EDIT: Official name is "Mobula").
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33089859/The%20Manta%20Ray2.jpg)
It's still a work in progress, and, like we saw with the Spire, will likely see changes before it comes out.
So, let's speculate on ship stats, component locations, and potential strategies. And, of course, think of a good official name in case the devs want some ideas :D
EDIT: WIP shots so far, courtesy of LordFunPants
(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/mantahelm1369230399.jpg)
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That thing...
looks like Lumberjack Bait in an instant...
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MUSE make me a Harpy and I will donate my car to your ship designer! ok maybe not but I have a nice bicycle I can donate XD.
4 guns, 3 forward 1 rear, with the manta having to keep the enemy ship in a perfectly center position to hit with all 3 guns. I think that would be extremely cool. HP,speed, turning that's passed off to the balance guys with the slide rules XD.
@ Letus anything with a balloon wider than a goldfish is lumberjack bait.
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Looks like... five weapons front, but completely barren behind. We have a new weapons platform ship! To balance out its firepower, it would have to have a slow turn speed. It looks like its mostly balloon in front, so that system's HP may be extremely high. The Hull will be basically protected by the girth of the balloon, but be completely open from behind. The hull's HP must be close to nothing, so the squid may be a direct counter to this menace.
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You can see the ladders leading down to the lower guns. The pathway to each gun is clearly shown by the floor above it. Notably, that also extends backwards, right to where you can see what's clearly a turning engine. So this ship is going to be terrible for using kerosene, since you'll probably need three people camping the engines, unless there's a tunnel connecting the two lower gun areas, which I doubt.
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Hmm... That raised deck in the centre... How do you get up there?
Optimistic: you get on the ropes on the other side of the ship, run along them, jump onto the next rope, and run over to the platform.
Realistic: there's a ladder in the tower next to it.
EDIT: Scratch that. I just noticed the gap in the railing. There's probably a ladder right there.
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If we are talking about weapon convergence, it looks like the pilots attack runs would be diagonal to the enemy ship... possible loadout: gat/flack sides with rocket carrousel top to be able to get your trifecta... which begs the question, where would the hull and balloon components be?
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On the main deck, below and to the side of the main engine, that looks a lot like the balloon component. Not sure if that's too good or bad depending on where the hull is, but it's certainly pretty far away from the guns. Maybe the top deck gungineer could jump down when it's in trouble?
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Also, looking at the floor and the lower deck gun areas again, it seems like there very well may be a tunnel leading between the lower guns. Could the hull be hidden down there?
Right now I'm thinking main deck engi, bottom deck engi, top deck engi/gunner.
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yeah It looks like a gamble to get any engie on a gun... If this is it's true size, it looks like it could rival the galleon
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It's hard to tell, since the engineer running along the deck is clearly out of proportion (like half the size of a gat, lol). Looking at the size of the other crew members, it definitely looks bigger than the Galleon to me.
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hmmm looks like turning engines are below deck as well... this ship is starting to look scary to me... very engineer heavy
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looks like turning engines are below deck as well...
Yes, as I pointed out several posts ago :P
They're positioned close to the lower guns. An engi would be able to keep one of them going at all times, but the other would be a real pain. Taking out both turning engines would pretty much screw the ship over.
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i never realized how small i made that person running the deck. . . totally throws everything off. . .
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I had to look several times to find the person lol.
Definately looks like a weapons platform, from what we've seen I'm guessing this is a Chaladon ship, has a late Victorian British empire feel to it.
I'm guessing two gunners moving from port to starboard managing positions, could even throw the captain to the top gun and wait for an ambush, or have the spare engineer setup there and parkour their way down to repair.
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I got it, the whale shark.
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That thing...
looks like Lumberjack Bait in an instant...
Not really, seeing as how a LJ shot arcs it would be hitting hull before balloon, so it really boils down to how strong they make the balloon.
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Looks almost invincible against balloon poppers. Since carronades don't elevate down anymore and the Lumberjack fires in an arc, there's no way to hit its balloon if it's down on the ground. Not to mention that the impact damage will be hitting the balloon, not the ground, so killing it via grounding would be a nightmare. Also, are those panels armor to protect things or are they control surfaces? Rudders have pretty much been non-existent on ships so far.
If you're anywhere from its 10 to 2, you'll be taking triple medium weapon fire. Looks pretty badass.
Names: +1 Hovercraft
Cathedral or Abbey because of that gold trim
Whale because its underbelly does look whale-ish, but that would give Dick Tim too much satisfaction, I think.
This seems to reinforce the gat/flak as the dominant meta concept, too.
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5 weapons all on the same side? :o
I'm guessing the ones on the right and the left will have a limited firing arc so that being able to fire with all 5 on the same enemy is going to be tricky. Maybe all the weapons are going to be light ones?
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Wow, just... :o
I guess it's hard to believe, but the reveal of the Manta Ray is extremely spooky for me.
Why? Well, I was thinking of doing a fanart project / ship mockup. And it was extremely similar to the Manta Ray!
My one was supposed to be called Stingray, and was supposed to have a very low balloon (not exactly under the ship, but rather in the middle, surrounded by the two ray "wings" that made the deck). The similarities kind of end there, though. My one would've been an Arashi League ship, designed to "hug the ground" and attack from below (the lore had to do with desert camouflage and striking convoys emerging from the dunes). It had three guns, one medium on the back, pointing forward and 30 degrees upwards (to bring enemies to the ground level) and two guns aiming backwards, designed to harpoon and tow enemies, hitting them against the rocks.
I might go on with the mockup anyway because it's quite different to the way I think the Manta Ray will play (The MR looks like a heavy, tank-ish forward hitting ship, while my idea was closer to squid levels of maneuverability, except with some focus on ramming and a special role of being very very close to the ground).
the MR looks awesome by the way, can't wait to try it!
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5 weapons all on the same side? :o
I'm guessing the ones on the right and the left will have a limited firing arc so that being able to fire with all 5 on the same enemy is going to be tricky. Maybe all the weapons are going to be light ones?
Firing all five weapons on a single target will indeed be tricky with a crew of four.
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5 weapons all on the same side? :o
I'm guessing the ones on the right and the left will have a limited firing arc so that being able to fire with all 5 on the same enemy is going to be tricky. Maybe all the weapons are going to be light ones?
Firing all five weapons on a single target will indeed be tricky with a crew of four.
...yeah, that too...
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From the looks of it all the weapons are light ones. Also, as Paradox said, as long as this thing keeps lower than the other ship the lumberjack's arc is going to make it very hard to land hits on the balloon.
If those turning engines are the only things making this monster rotate, it's gonna have a considerably lower turning speed than any other ship.
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Okay, am I Starbucks-ing this and making Light and Medium weapons Medium and Heavy? I thought the Hwacha was a heavy, the Artemis a medium.
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It used to be small and medium, but now it's light and heavy.
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Definately looks like a weapons platform, from what we've seen I'm guessing this is a Chaladon ship, has a late Victorian British empire feel to it.
Really feels like a Guild ship if you ask me
...just looking at it now, man 5 light guns. That's gonna be though getting effective
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I love the base and concept design however I am definitely not a fan of the underballoon only.
This ship would be 10 times more awesome than it already is by having a regular balloon on top (in addition to the belly balloon)
Also, for balance purpose I think one of the 5 front gun should be put to the rear.
4 gun front is already enough firepower on its own and needs to balance it out a little bit. Having both side as a weakness is already harsh.
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Judging from the arcs, it'll be roughly like a pyra but with diagonal arcs. The upper gun looks like it wont get much use, unless there is a component or the inner side guns have a good overlapping arc. Then you could make that a dedicated gun and the two outer guns as utility.
Seeing all the ladders going down plus all the tunnels, i think hull and balloon will be downstairs.
Engines look funny to me in the picture. Like one is top deck and one is lower deck. And no main. Perhaps it's 2 main engines instead of 1 main and 2 turning?
For all you guys saying the balloon is nigh invincible, I think its actually quite exposed down there. Both lumberjack and Carronades have high upward arcs, so getting under this guy will be a death sentence for it's gasbag. Sure getting low would help, but your guns better have good arcs then.
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Well, it has a design feel not dissimilar to the pyramidion or galleon; however the only other ship to feature rear-rudders has been the junker not to mention the similar bow. It also has a relatively utilitarian feel, once stripped of the gold it has What appear to be small cranes towards the wide open back for cargo on a stable platform.
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Judging from the arcs, it'll be roughly like a pyra but with diagonal arcs. The upper gun looks like it wont get much use, unless there is a component or the inner side guns have a good overlapping arc. Then you could make that a dedicated gun and the two outer guns as utility.
Engines look funny to me in the picture. Like one is top deck and one is lower deck. And no main. Perhaps it's 2 main engines instead of 1 main and 2 turning?
You're looking at it wrong. The engine on the left is attached to the raised platform. The other turning engine is being blocked by the platform. So you might need a guy staying up to shoot and keep the main engine going, but this doesn't look like a ship where the engines will see much abuse.
Seeing all the ladders going down plus all the tunnels, i think hull and balloon will be downstairs.
Agreed on the hull, but not the balloon. I think the thing sitting next to the platform (not far from the main engine) is the balloon.
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Engines will always take abuse thanks to pilot tools and lots of tar, lol. I see what you mean though, which will surely be a pain to keep up.
I hope the components aren't spread like that, else I don't see a gunner seeing much use on this boat.
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I still don't see how this thing stays in the air. All the forces on the top are pushing down thanks to gravity and all the forces on the bottom are pushing up. It should flip itself over. What you would need is a heavy weight hanging down beneath the balloon and that would just weight the whole ship down. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5213/5450356439_4d252602fd_z.jpg This thing only works because all the actual weight is down at the bottom and the fake basket at the top is probably cardboard.
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It's going to be really interesting game mechanic when hitting into the ground damages your balloon and not armor.
My tactician gears are already turning....
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Here are my ideas for builds so far.
Full Brawler
Gatling top left
Gatling top right
Flak lower left
Flak lower right
Banshee centre
The idea here is pretty obvious. There's an enormous angle in which you can land gatflak on the enemy ship, with the banshee adding extra support. I'm assuming that the hull is hidden below deck, which is why the flaks are down below. The gat needs to be firing more often than the flak, so this setup allows the lower gunner to do some hull repairs. It also allows for more trifecta arc.
Alternate Brawler
Lower left flak
Lower right flak
Upper left banshee
Upper right banshee
Centre gatling
The idea here is the same in principle. It's just shifting the use of the gat to the engi who'll be doing less repairs (up top). This allows them to spend more time on the gatling, and they won't have any gun switching to do. Banshees are still there for the trifecta.
Brawler/Utility
Upper left gatling
Lower left flak
Upper right mine launcher
Lower right flare gun
Centre banshee
This one makes only one of the sides be used for fighting with the other meant for utility. Not much else to say.
Sniper
Right side mercs
Left side gatflak
Front Artemis
Simple enough. Mercs and an Artemis for long-range fighting, gatflak when they get close.
I'm not sure if the banshee is the best trifecta gun. With this ship, you'd better be killing as quickly as possible. Maybe an extra flak or gat would do the trick?
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It used to be small and medium, but now it's light and heavy.
It's still small and medium in some places, light and heavy in others... #13 (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,784.0.html)
What you would need is a heavy weight hanging down beneath the balloon and that would just weight the whole ship down.
Maybe that's the purpose of the weird "nose" and the big plates hanging down? Anyway, plenty of things already don't make any sense, so something else isn't really a problem 8)
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I still don't see how this thing stays in the air. All the forces on the top are pushing down thanks to gravity and all the forces on the bottom are pushing up. It should flip itself over. What you would need is a heavy weight hanging down beneath the balloon and that would just weight the whole ship down. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5213/5450356439_4d252602fd_z.jpg This thing only works because all the actual weight is down at the bottom and the fake basket at the top is probably cardboard.
Indeed, stability was my first concern when seeing the ship. There are some possibilities though.
The bare minimum for stability is that the center of mass of the whole metal structure lies below the center of mass of the balloon, right? Looking at the picture, the only way this could be is that the bottom parts of the structure were much heavier than the entire deck above the balloon, which seems unlikely. So there is a chance the ship is stable by itself through having very heavy materials below the level of the balloon, but this would be bad design. Why having unnecessary weight?
Then there's a second theory, one that I find much cooler: Maybe there is some sort of control system to stabilize the structure. The balloon seems to be divided in segments; one way to do it would be to have a mechanism that works as a level sensor. When the ship is leveled it does nothing. When it tilts, the weight displacement opens a steam valve that powers up a pump, so the balloon that is causing the tilt deflates and transfers air to the one on the opposite side.
Of course this would be a bitch to calibrate (by the industrial revolution they were just figuring out the Centrifugal Governor) but it is at least feasible without electricity.
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i really love seeing you guys dig deep into this ship. a lot of what you guys are talking about right now about the physics of the ship was well debated at muse. ultimately though, if it interferes with what we are looking for from a gameplay standpoint we sorta have to make a compromise in places. hell the concept of a ship with its balloon on the bottom was apparently considered "never going to happen" at one point for some of the reasons you're pointing out now . . . and trust me, i went through like a hundred designs before the one we have here,. . . and when i mean hundreds, i mean it literally. . .
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Perhaps with the extended tail fins, the purpose of those vertical turbines near the front fins is to provide a counter to this toppling effect. The whole idea has me thinking of the old nickname for the F-117: "The Wobblin' Goblin".
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What you would need is a heavy weight hanging down beneath the balloon and that would just weight the whole ship down.
Maybe that's the purpose of the weird "nose" and the big plates hanging down? Anyway, plenty of things already don't make any sense, so something else isn't really a problem 8)
Indeed, our current ships shouldn't really be able to fly either. This ship looks "plausible" enough.
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It's hard to tell, since the engineer running along the deck is clearly out of proportion (like half the size of a gat, lol). Looking at the size of the other crew members, it definitely looks bigger than the Galleon to me.
....maybe its 5 medium-sized guns?
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It's hard to tell, since the engineer running along the deck is clearly out of proportion (like half the size of a gat, lol). Looking at the size of the other crew members, it definitely looks bigger than the Galleon to me.
....maybe its 5 medium-sized guns?
No, those are definitely light guns. Look at the guy manning the gun on the left side of the picture. It gives a much better idea of the proportions.
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The crew is out of proportions due to an light artistic fail, meaning it's light guns. And since the only way you can even man 3 of the guns it means you have noone piloting or noone on repairs, the 5 front guns setup is not as problematic (especialy ALL the guns are in front, keeping all else a huge blind spot).
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Looks like you might be able to get a quintfecta
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Yes with that excellent fifth crew member playing the 10th class in tf2.
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Looks like you might be able to get a quintfecta
No comment :P
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The ship looks very heavy. Probably moves like a galleon but with forward firepower like a Spire. It will have to have high hull hp because it has a lot of surface area. Attacking from on high will mean death for it.
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MUSE make me a Harpy and I will donate my car to your ship designer! ok maybe not but I have a nice bicycle I can donate XD.
4 guns, 3 forward 1 rear, with the manta having to keep the enemy ship in a perfectly center position to hit with all 3 guns. I think that would be extremely cool. HP,speed, turning that's passed off to the balance guys with the slide rules XD.
@ Letus anything with a balloon wider than a goldfish is lumberjack bait.
You guys did notice the balloon is under .. its lumberjack proof ? the lumberjack is gonna hit the hull ._.
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This ships biggest weakness might be from biplanes if it turns slow. Wouldn't be able to get a gun on any of them for very long if they move out of the firing arcs to fast.
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MUSE make me a Harpy and I will donate my car to your ship designer! ok maybe not but I have a nice bicycle I can donate XD.
4 guns, 3 forward 1 rear, with the manta having to keep the enemy ship in a perfectly center position to hit with all 3 guns. I think that would be extremely cool. HP,speed, turning that's passed off to the balance guys with the slide rules XD.
@ Letus anything with a balloon wider than a goldfish is lumberjack bait.
You guys did notice the balloon is under .. its lumberjack proof ? the lumberjack is gonna hit the hull ._.
Lumberjack against the hull is a pain. You can still shoot it with a pretty decent upward arc though so it shouldn't be that big a deal to hit the balloon. Excited to see the ship in action though.
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MUSE make me a Harpy and I will donate my car to your ship designer! ok maybe not but I have a nice bicycle I can donate XD.
4 guns, 3 forward 1 rear, with the manta having to keep the enemy ship in a perfectly center position to hit with all 3 guns. I think that would be extremely cool. HP,speed, turning that's passed off to the balance guys with the slide rules XD.
@ Letus anything with a balloon wider than a goldfish is lumberjack bait.
You guys did notice the balloon is under .. its lumberjack proof ? the lumberjack is gonna hit the hull ._.
Not exactly, It'd be pretty much lumberjack proof if the Manta flew close to the ground at all times, but if you had a lumberfish get under it, the extreme vertical arc of the lumberjack would be able to decimate it... just throw some incendiary rounds in and watch the mayhem happen
Edit... dangit queso beat me to it
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It gives a good use for those now strangely upward-preferring carronades.
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Actually, with the burst radius, wouldn't the Lumberjack still hit the balloon?
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Actually, with the burst radius, wouldn't the Lumberjack still hit the balloon?
something i'm now planning on making sure i test out once the ship is actually made reasonably testable. . .
but as of now. . i accidentally did a thing. . (Disclaimer: and no. these are in no way shape or form anywhere near final stats, this was more for me to test my side of things, in regards to running around the ship and well. . having a good time >> << sooo disregard this as i pretty much copied some of the other ship stats for testing purposes)
(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/iaccidentallyathing1369057482.jpg)
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Actually, with the burst radius, wouldn't the Lumberjack still hit the balloon?
something i'm now planning on making sure i test out once the ship is actually made reasonably testable. . .
but as of now. . i accidentally did a thing. . (Disclaimer: and no. these are in no way shape or form anywhere near final stats, this was more for me to test my side of things, in regards to running around the ship and well. . having a good time >> << sooo disregard this as i pretty much copied some of the other ship stats for testing purposes)
(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/iaccidentallyathing1369057482.jpg)
You might as well call it The Spinning Top then =)
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The Manta Ray does not turn. You simply put in the direction you want it to face and it instantly faces that direction.
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the real joy wasn't so much turning. . it was moving up and down. . i started to move up and the entire ship seesawed upward at least 20 degrees as it nearly instantly reached the max height. . . and then i decided to try this with hydrogen, . . which led to the destruction of my ship. . . . . . . via hitting the ground. . .
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TEST VIDEO!
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the real joy wasn't so much turning. . it was moving up and down. . i started to move up and the entire ship seesawed upward at least 20 degrees as it nearly instantly reached the max height. . . and then i decided to try this with hydrogen, . . which led to the destruction of my ship. . . . . . . via hitting the ground. . .
Video. Now.
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Awwww, man Muse, that looks beautiful. It looks a little sluggish to me but I'll still fly it simply because of how beautiful it is. Make sure that brass is as bright in game! I love where the pilot wheel is!
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LoL irght not it is anything BUT sluggish XD.
Seriously we want videos of silly stuff like that.
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the real joy wasn't so much turning. . it was moving up and down. . i started to move up and the entire ship seesawed upward at least 20 degrees as it nearly instantly reached the max height. . . and then i decided to try this with hydrogen, . . which led to the destruction of my ship. . . . . . . via hitting the ground. . .
How does that happen? You went so far that the speed value overflowed and turned out negative? Did you hit the moon?
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pretty much what happened was i quickly smacked into the height ceiling, now the way thats programmed is that it doesn't just automatically stop you once you reach max height, it simply bounces you back depending on how fast you go, think of it like a giant rubber band. .. so i rose and i kept rising essentially pushing against a giant rubber band in the sky at the "Speed of light", . . and then i let go. . . and with in a blink of an eye i see my ship explode as it was flung back at the speed of light against the ground. . .
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pretty much what happened was i quickly smacked into the height ceiling, now the way thats programmed is that it doesn't just automatically stop you once you reach max height, it simply bounces you back depending on how fast you go, think of it like a giant rubber band. .. so i rose and i kept rising essentially pushing against a giant rubber band in the sky at the "Speed of light", . . and then i let go. . . and with in a blink of an eye i see my ship explode as it was flung back at the speed of light against the ground. . .
Ooooh that's why on my Squid I often kept rising despite my altimeter being at the highest, I get it :). That's got to be useful to make a "jump" over certain mountain formations.
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its the exact reason its there, gives larger ships a chance to "hop" over higher obstacles
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Okay, I've been having a lot of thoughts about this guy and I've made my decision. Assuming by looking at the thin-ish horizontal profile and the need for massive turning rudders, I'm going to say this thing moves forward alright but turns like a slug. I really, really, really think the front lower guns should be heavy mounts.
Let me explain:
Two heavy weapons faced forward on the front of this ship and one light weapon will give this thing the same profile as the port-side of a galleon, but the Ray will be able to approach and retreat with this side. This is something that has not been addressed yet in GoI and, if applied, will give the Ray a very important niche in the current meta: addressing the balance issues and fusses posed by heavily dug-in and skilled sniper builds without moving to have those builds nerfed... so as not to piss off the most devoted players =P Keep snipes viable, but throw in a new contender to counter that tactic. Encamped snipers won't want to tangle with a double-heavy front end that's on the approach, forcing them to stay mobile instead of outgun it. This should mix things up a little, and give the paddling a run for their money :9
Two heavies will also give light, mobile ships more of a chance to dodge the fire off the front of this thing. Drop this thing into ambush mode with gat-flak trifecta at the front it's just going to be the same awkward 5-second fight every time you encounter one.
The long reload times of heavy weapons will give gunners a chance to repair connected turn engines since the captain will likely be phoenix clawing *nonstop* with this ship, and new players will be encouraged to hop off the gun for a moment and fix things. Also, wouldn't this thing look ****ing awesome with two hwachas at the front? You bet.
The smaller turn radii of heavy weapons will also keep people dissuaded from going for the awkward and dreaded quadfecta... I mean, come on.
A tunnel connecting all the front guns seems necessary for switching guns between two dedicated gunners and one engi, allowing gunners to slide left or right if well organized in response to ships trying to flank. The ship will have a very interesting meta of "SLIDE STARBOARD" for ships approaching on the right. I would also keep the hull somewhere close to that top gun, where the main engi will likely stay, so he has the same sort of setup as the front man on the junker.
And I'll be honest, I have NO idea where the balloon on this thing would be, but I imagine the hull being within that covered part at the top, with maybe a hatch leading down to it from up there. The balloon seems very well-protected from above (vs lumberjack and carronade) so I imagine the balloon off in no-man's land somewhere. So any ship sneaking underneath to hit the balloon will really catch this guy off-guard and move one of the gunners away from offense, which could be a good balance feature. I imagine this beast having a really strong core hull.
What do you guys think? :D
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the real joy wasn't so much turning. . it was moving up and down. . i started to move up and the entire ship seesawed upward at least 20 degrees as it nearly instantly reached the max height. . . and then i decided to try this with hydrogen, . . which led to the destruction of my ship. . . . . . . via hitting the ground. . .
I wonder why that happened ;P
Need a rework on hydro!! :D
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Hmm, I thought maximum vertical velocity was capped at 12m/s? Then again, I was actually thinking that this ship could have the fastest vertical acceleration, and was dreaming up some nice moves for it.
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Now if only we could get actual in-game renders of it and start postulating with a tad more accuracy. Would adore being able to fly something new, just don't feel a real "fit" with the present ships.
(http://media.tumblr.com/78cba6597d627a2d14f5a229e9ac5043/tumblr_inline_mk0yn7qnvZ1qfb1ni.gif)
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Here's another idea for a build.
Front merc or Artemis
Left gatflak
Right merc or Artemis / mine launcher
One merc, one Artemis. You get the long range merc/Artemis combo, gatflak with Artemis for trifecta, and a mine launcher. The choice between which gun to have on the front depends on whether you want to focus on long or short range. Putting the merc there lets you backpeddle better, but the Artemis up there gives you 45° of extra trifecta arc.
This could be a really versatile build.
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Now if only we could get actual in-game renders of it and start postulating with a tad more accuracy. Would adore being able to fly something new, just don't feel a real "fit" with the present ships.
i have to admit i am tempted to show some pics i took while running around a Work in Progress mesh with unfinished textures . . .
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Now if only we could get actual in-game renders of it and start postulating with a tad more accuracy. Would adore being able to fly something new, just don't feel a real "fit" with the present ships.
i have to admit i am tempted to show some pics i took while running around a Work in Progress mesh with unfinished textures . . .
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31754054.jpg)
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I humbly request that you present us with some more pictures of this wonderful aircraft.... I would like to provide those gents with another reason not to get you (if you need and explanation of that go here: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1006.0.html) of course with Howard's ok on the matter :))
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Yes pics plz!! :D.
Also anything on the mine layer!
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I kinda want to be totally surprised by how this ship functions. I wouldn't mind videos of just collision detection and debugging stuff being performed, that would be pretty cool. As long as what was happening wasn't an accurate showing of what the ship is intended to perform like.
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-Low mass
-High armor
-Low hull
-Moderate speed
-Slow turn speed
-High vertical speed
Names: Locus, Flap Jack
Two heavy guns in the lower ports and three light guns on the top would be very cool.
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-Low mass
-High armor
-Low hull
-Moderate speed
-Slow turn speed
-High vertical speed
Names: Locus, Flap Jack
Two heavy guns in the lower ports and three light guns on the top would be very cool.
Sounds like a reverse junker, in a way. I'm fine with this. I just hope the ship after this one is another speedster ala the Squid.
Perhaps a small ship with two small, long balloons on either side, maybe with wings to make it akin to a heavy fighter ship. Not sure what gun setup it'd have, though.
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Keeping with the nautical or water creature naming of the ship:
Man-o'-war, both a class of ship and the animal, which it somewhat resembles.
Monitor, which is a small, shallow-draft ship designed for land bombardment.
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Also anything on the mine layer!
i only discuss things i work on directly, so dont expect to here a single word out of me about that gun :P
and man-o-war? funny you mention that cause i actually had used a man o war (the animal) for inspiration during one string of designs.
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Figured it'd have more dangly parts, if that's the case.
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That looks... really weird
Seeing all the forward facing guns is it going to be like a spire but with less "focus fire" and more "spread fire"?
Balloon looks big so... big balloon health? But it also looks awfully easy to shoot
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Ho yez, trigger fingers got an itch when i saw it. :D
Interesting concept for the gunner to have one side completely under his jurisdiction. I think he either mans the lower or upper deck, while secondary engineer mans the other. Or something.
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I generally like the Design and Idea and Stuff , but I dont think its that stable , if the "cockpit" and the planks and weapons and all Stuff are ON TOP of the Balloon :D It would turn over all the Time , wouldnt it ?
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I guess I'm of the minority who threw realism out the window and thought it looked awesome both from visual and tactical points of view.
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yup that has actually already been brought up... Here is LordFunPants' response:
i really love seeing you guys dig deep into this ship. a lot of what you guys are talking about right now about the physics of the ship was well debated at muse. ultimately though, if it interferes with what we are looking for from a gameplay standpoint we sorta have to make a compromise in places. hell the concept of a ship with its balloon on the bottom was apparently considered "never going to happen" at one point for some of the reasons you're pointing out now . . . and trust me, i went through like a hundred designs before the one we have here,. . . and when i mean hundreds, i mean it literally. . .
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I guess I'm of the minority who threw realism out the window and thought it looked awesome both from visual and tactical points of view.
Looks like we're in the minority together.
The potential versatility in this ship is making want to fly it. Now.
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In my defense, seeing as I guess I am in the "majority" that raised concerns about the stability, let me say this:
I'm not nitpicking in favour of realism. Don't get me wrong! Rather than complaining because the ship is unstable, I was trying to find awesome ways of how it could actually be stable in its current form (justifiable by lore if necessary). It's the sort of stuff I love to think about as an engineer IRL ^^. Either way it is amazing, and I hope Muse is never constrained by realism in their future ship designs.
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to be honest, i hope the speculation on how this thing flies keeps going, still working on it, making changes you know, and while I've always personally go with the "its a game" crowd, i know having those touches of realism/lore/believability/etc is a big deal for some folks so hey, if i can add something reasonable i will as long as it doesn't effect things on a gameplay point of view. for instance, someone mentioned things hanging down to add stability? totally effects where and how you can fly this depending on how far that thing hangs down and how big. it also ends up counting as "hull" which also adds new weaknesses to it. the biggest fear i had designing this ship is its daammnn wide which means we gotta fly through canyons/labyrinth alot to make sure it can squeeze through mostly everything, though it is relatively flat which in some ways makes up for that
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You're telling me I can't shoot the balloon at all?
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wait, what now O_o
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it also ends up counting as "hull" which also adds new weaknesses to it.
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oh to clarify, i meant that if i started adding large metallic shapes at the bottom of the design to weight it down so it wouldn't flip over, it would technically count as hull (at least at those points), as of now, the only thing at the bottom is all balloon
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thats things ugly
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That's just your oppinion MasX. My oppinion is howaever that this thing rocks.
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Hydrogen/Chute Vent. Since the balloon's on the bottom, call it the whale, and you can breach on top of your opponents and crush them.
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Hydrogen/Chute Vent. Since the balloon's on the bottom, call it the whale, and you can breach on top of your opponents and crush them.
It was hinted a whale would find its way into game in some way, shape or form. Manta Ray is definitely growing on me the more I look at it. Or puffer fish... Puffer Ray!
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The Zanghief, then.
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(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/mantahelm1369230399.jpg)
(Work in progress shot, textures not finalized, among other things)
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Holy cow that thing looks awesome. My new favorite ship for aesthetics, from that picture alone.
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I wish I could Salute you faster :P you sir have made my day :))
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man... can't wait
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Man that ship looks cool, don't think it'll fit through the pipe on Canyons but that kinda makes it even cooler.
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Us captains will find a way to make it fit through YOUR MOM.
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Oooooh. Preeeeeetty.
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I can't say I'm terribly excited for it, but I do appreciate the uniqueness of its design.
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(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/mantahelm1369230399.jpg)
(Work in progress shot, textures not finalized, among other things)
looks good from the inside
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In defense of how it flies I say Muse adds a form of computer aided flight assist in the form of...Steam Monkeys. Hoards of Monkeys with steam powered brains that are connected to the steering wheel and help the pilot fly ;D
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In defense of how it flies I say Muse adds a form of computer aided flight assist in the form of...Steam Monkeys. Hoards of Monkeys with steam powered brains that are connected to the steering wheel and help the pilot fly ;D
In space they also imitate fighter jet sounds, explaining why fighter spacecraft maker jet sounds.
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In defense of how it flies I say Muse adds a form of computer aided flight assist in the form of...Steam Monkeys. Hoards of Monkeys with steam powered brains that are connected to the steering wheel and help the pilot fly ;D
In space they also imitate fighter jet sounds, explaining why fighter spacecraft maker jet sounds.
For that purpose, they have highly-developed vocal cords that can produce and transmit sound in a vacuum.
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It looks so fancy... Almost like a place I would hold a cocktail party in, not use as a battle station.
I'm loving to imagine backstories... It looks to me like a ship designed by demand of a spoiled child princess. I can almost picture the engineers working their asses off to produce a ship without visible balloon so said princess could have a perfect panoramic view, and lay on her back and look at the stars... Then the kingdom falls in disgrace and the design survives in the form of a battleship, like a reminder of lost innocence.
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Either that or some honeybadgering admiral tossed the snooty little pratt off the side and took it for himself. Dapper as f**k.
Deal with it.
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I love the spoiled prince or princess background. It would explain why the ship looks so fancy and why they would have such an over-engineered design when other ships function better and more easily. Now if I could have anything I would love for the death animation to occasionally be the ship flipping over.
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I love the spoiled prince or princess background. It would explain why the ship looks so fancy and why they would have such an over-engineered design when other ships function better and more easily. Now if I could have anything I would love for the death animation to occasionally be the ship flipping over.
I agree But maybe not all the time... maybe once every 500 deathsor something to that effect. make it a rare treat! yay easter eggs!!
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(http://dumpt.com/img/files/fdykrodxcufzs5y50m3f.jpg)
and thats the last tease i'll show, even though this is somewhat an old pic
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That's a cushy balloon you have there. It would be a shame if some shotgun rounds found there way in there.
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So there's our first shot of a tunnel. Still no visible hull or anything, but from the looks of it this is facing towards one of the ladders going up, with the gun fairly close behind the player.
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Really interesting. I think I want to try sinking five harpoons into a target with that ship. Anyways, hope we get to see more of the Manta Ray soon and maybe even see its release alongside with the mine launcher.
oh man, what if I could harpoon the mines? I'd spend the rest of my time flying in reverse
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oh man, what if I could harpoon the mines? I'd spend the rest of my time flying in reverse
I can hear it now in qwerty's voice. "Now here we see a metamanta using a basic mine/poon combination."
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Mine poon!
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Hmm, the ship looks awesome and I really like the style... but how 5 guns pointing at the same spot is usefull in any way? I wish we could crew more guys on that ship to shot all the weapons at once... Imagine that... 2 gats and 3 flaks... one ship dead in 3 seconds... sounds balanced
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Hmm, the ship looks awesome and I really like the style... but how 5 guns pointing at the same spot is usefull in any way? I wish we could crew more guys on that ship to shot all the weapons at once... Imagine that... 2 gats and 3 flaks... one ship dead in 3 seconds... sounds balanced
it could have a slow turning speed
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Either that or some honeybadgering admiral tossed the snooty little pratt off the side and took it for himself. Dapper as f**k.
Deal with it.
Did someone say HONEYBADGERING!?
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Wow, this looks amazing. Looking forward to the Manta Ray.
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Either that or some honeybadgering admiral tossed the snooty little pratt off the side and took it for himself. Dapper as f**k.
Deal with it.
Did someone say HONEYBADGERING!?
It is a word now, deal with it. xD
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reminds me of when someone mentions pants. . . but usually they aren't talking about very fun pants. . .
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im Honeybadgering into this post
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reminds me of when someone mentions pants. . . but usually they aren't talking about very fun pants. . .
That makes the very fun pants more special and hipster and anti-mainstream, in a way :P I think...
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Hmm, the ship looks awesome and I really like the style... but how 5 guns pointing at the same spot is usefull in any way? I wish we could crew more guys on that ship to shot all the weapons at once... Imagine that... 2 gats and 3 flaks... one ship dead in 3 seconds... sounds balanced
It's useful because you can have a different set of guns on each side, e.g. gatflak left and utility right, or gatflak left and sniper right.
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im Honeybadgering into this post
Ok, any and all "badgering" is now "honeybadgering"
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I agree, maximum crew should be increased to 5-6.
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lulz im balancing this right now
crews cannot be increased right now.
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But septfecta, awkim!
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But septfecta, awkim!
That'd be quite the accomplishment on a ship with five guns :P
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But septfecta, awkim!
That'd be quite the accomplishment on a ship with five guns :P
But handgun lumberjacks, awkim!
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well when one gun is realoading you could burn the others clip? :)
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well when one gun is realoading you could burn the others clip? :)
Nah, they're too far apart. You'd end up lowering your DPS.
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sorry im just guessing here, works computers have blocked your pictures so im doing evertyhing with my imagination... a Flying whale with a shit-ton of guns on it... xD what springs to your mind? xD
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Well the main use I see for all those guns is to have one side be for brawling (so gatflak) and the other for sniping or utility (mercs or flare/mine launcher). I've already thought of loads of different possible builds... This thing is gonna be really versatile.
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Might be fun with 2 Mercs on one side, 1 artemis on top (near the pilot), and an artemis/gatling combo on the other side. If you're far enough away from trouble, you might be able to have 2 mercs and 2 artemis firing at the same time.
It would definitely be a lot weaker at close range, but gatlings are pretty good. =]
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right now my load out is anything that can turn more then 5 degrees left or right, and its absolutely beautiful to see from the helm seeing all those streaks around you merging into one point . . mind you i'm no expert but i figure gotta take advantage of where the guns are facing . . lenz decided to be the "8 armed dragon"what ever the hell that means (lenz. . there's only 5 guns. . ). . . flamethrowers and shotguns. . . ends up looking like a god damn fire breathing dragon from afar.
on a side note, currently? ships not to far off from the concept art overall, except its alot thinner/smaller overall since i drew it a bit fatter then i would have liked. . also. . . . i find it legitimately scary repairing certain places on this ship. . . from an atmospheric perspective. . .
and yea, random testing today, lots of random testing.
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That's great to hear! I'm really, really looking forward to this thing.
Might be fun with 2 Mercs on one side, 1 artemis on top (near the pilot), and an artemis/gatling combo on the other side. If you're far enough away from trouble, you might be able to have 2 mercs and 2 artemis firing at the same time.
It would definitely be a lot weaker at close range, but gatlings are pretty good. =]
The side guns are each off 45° from the front. For guns from opposite sides to get in arc with each other, the combined arc has to be 90°. The merc has 20° in either direction, and the Artemis 64°. It's impossible to get both in arc at long range.
I've got a few builds in mind for sniping. There's the brawler/sniper with a focus on brawling (two mercs, front gat, gatflak), brawler/sniper with sniper focus (two mercs, front Artemis, gatflak), and the brawler/sniper + utility (one merc front or side, Artemis front or side, mine launcher, gatflak).
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Bleh. I wasn't looking closely at the angles they were facing. Oh well, a man can dream....
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But Sunderland... If you had the lower four guns as flare guns, you could have a never ending stream of flares ...
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But Sunderland... If you had the lower four guns as flare guns, you could have a never ending stream of flares ...
Dangit! you saw through my plot! Machiavelliest! :(
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But Sunderland... If you had the lower four guns as flare guns, you could have a never ending stream of flares ...
Dangit! you saw through my plot! Machiavelliest! :(
Let the Flare Games BEGIN!
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DRACARYS
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There were a few seconds of Manta footage in the biweekly update for Adventure Mode, and it was enough to notice a few things:
-The main deck seems to have a pretty different design from what's seen in the concept art (even accounting for its unfinished state and all)
-The lower deck guns stick out more than the concept art makes it seem. In fact, there's a ladder leading directly from them to the main deck.
-As suspected, the hull component is located below deck. It's in an area about midway between the lower turning engines and guns
-I didn't see any sign of a tunnel connecting the lower guns, but I didn't get a good view on the hull area, so there might be something there.
-The ladder visible in the concept art appeared to be absent. Maybe it was dropped in favour of having one at the front.
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I kinda wished the vid had more. Most of it was explaining that the KS stuff is getting out and then the Manta and the art bit were sorta tacked on at the end. Think a better closing would have also noting the work that has been done on the factions and such. Then encourage people to keep an eye out for coming updates as more are completed.
I'm honestly more concerned about seeing work progressing than some swag that has to be on order anyways and will take time to get here. Like updates on this ship and the mine launcher. Glimpse at 1.3 and maybe a look at the first changes we'll be seeing in prep for Adventure mode. Unless your saving that for E3. If so, then don't spoil the surprise!!! But hint at it!!
Course all ya gotta do is say Hydro fix or Squid fix and I'll be bouncing off the walls.
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With the 45 degree cant, I expect to see a merc/Artemis four-pack or a merc trio shredding enemy ships outside of almost all weapon ranges at a furious clip. We'll see, but I'm calling it.
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It's mathematically impossible. The merc has 20° of arc in either direction.
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Math? pffff it's about BELIEF! Why you think I fly through tar! I BELIEVE it wont hurt me and it doesn't! The same rules apply here.
And where in the everliving hell is this video you crazy people are talking about? It might be my 36 hours without sleep but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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It's the Biweekly video update on the Kickstarter page
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It's the Biweekly video update on the Kickstarter page
Right that thing that goes to the favorites folder on my inbox and I always forget to look at. -_-'
Excuse list. Haven't slept, Deus Ex is burning my brain, and I'm stupid.
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sall good, I've been losing my sleep to endless space.....
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i've been losing my sleep through endless nights working on the manta ray. . . ok ok maybe not >> but shes coming along nicely, from a visual standpoint going through final revisions to make sure this thing looks as beautiful as it can be.
and lenz stuck on mercs everywhere yesterday while testing the ship. . . and i stuck on flamethrowers. . . i won. . but as i said, we dont have enough free people here to have a full match with the ship, . soooo ai isn't exactly the greatest way to test builds out especially since i consider this ship literally the worst ship to have an ai crew on. . . i'd rather ai crew a spire by far. . .
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you ever need crew to test a ship design, hit me up :P... from your screenshots, it already looks beautiful...
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I was about to say I volunteer and never sleep anyway! :P
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ha thanks, there's a lot of love going into this ship right now, and i "have" the time since this ship wont be going in this up coming patch but the next. it almost did get set for this patch, but it would have been cutting it to close and we'd rather make sure everything's in good working order rather then rushing things. And to be honest i'm kinda excited to see people get on this ship already! players always end up playing in ways i could never expect so its always fun to see.
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I'd just like to pop in here to say: Manta + Galleon + Desert Scrap... :o
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Going to be on the dev app eventually? If you need testers I'm sure the groups from the cogs wouldn't mind.
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i'm actually hoping we summon folks again to the dev app, it was fun looking over everyone playing the labyrinth, while giving out random trivia about the map. would love to see what folks end up doing with the manta ray. just going to have to hope matches dont end up being 100% manta rays :P.
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I'll be ready to fly that thing the moment you send it out. I already know which builds I'm gonna try out.
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Sunderland, it looked to me like 3 of the guns point straight forward.
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(http://store.japan-zone.com/images/interior/fans/decorative_fans/apricot_iris_fan.jpg)
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hmmmm inspiration?
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Sunderland, it looked to me like 3 of the guns point straight forward.
I just watched the video to make sure, and while they definitely aren't straight, the angle might be a bit less than 45°. So there might be a chance.
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hmmmm inspiration?
me being a riddler more then anything :P
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hmmmm inspiration?
me being a riddler more then anything :P
For some reason, I just saw the Spire bent into a question mark...
with a green balloon...
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For some reason, I just saw the Spire bent into a question mark...
with a green balloon...
for some reason, i just want to summon Sgt_Spoon and let him have had it and draw that out. . .
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For some reason, I just saw the Spire bent into a question mark...
with a green balloon...
for some reason, i just want to summon Sgt_Spoon and let him have had it and draw that out. . .
...
Yes.
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Oh don't worry, I would intend to fly every ship against it and rip it a new one in the name of testing!
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the anticipation, its a real killer
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The dev app had an update today. Bout 128MB. Didn't look like anything changed though.
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The dev app had an update today. Bout 128MB. Didn't look like anything changed though.
No new ship or weapon as far as I could tell but something else we all wanted ;)
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Well...kinda. I'm still not 100% satisfied. Least not till my baby is completely back to her former glory. But its a start.
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This looks like a pretty interesting ship in layout, I'm looking forward to serving as engineer on one, maybe even pilot to see if it's one ship I can pilot without being an idiot.
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Personally, I don't like Manta Ray.
We already have a Squid and a Goldfish, and while I realize that these are referencing sea ships, I think we take a turn away from sea animals for this next one.
Maybe Albatross?
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Looking at the way the balloon drops down, I'd say Pelican
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Looking at the way the balloon drops down, I'd say Pelican
This would be absolutely perfect if Muse built it as an anti-Goldfish/Squid.
But Pelican seems a bit clunky of a name for such an elegantly painted ship.
Maybe Heron?
They look a lot like this ship in flight:
http://ibc.lynxeds.com/files/pictures/grey_heron_in-flight.jpg
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i actually really like that reference of the heron, kinda even has the general shape of the ship in some ways, sorta.
mind you all the times i've made "code names" for ships they end up getting changed at the end when all is said and done for what ever reason. i still always call the "Squid" the speedster just cause thats what the file name was. so there is still room for the ships name to change once its out(and knowing the fact that 2 out of 3 of my current ships are fish related. . it'll probably still be a fish. . though thats more just a running gag then anything ). though, most of my code names for ships where just pretty much the file name i gave when i started (small_warship = goldfish)
with that said, one more visual design hurdle has to get out of the way and then its just a mad dash to the finish line in regards to modeling/texturing/etc.
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Game already has an anti fish/squid/everything ship...its called the Junker.
Yeah, doesn't have to be a fish based name. Unless the naming is going to be based on certain factions. The WWI based lore does open possibility for a variety of names. Aircraft of the time period certainly had a lot of official ones as well as nicknames.
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Actually...let's think of like this...
We have a Lumberjack gun...Lumberjacks cut down trees...what else can cut down trees? A Herring.
The ship should be called the Herring...
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How about "Man o' war"?
The ship kinda looks like a big jellyfish, like the actual portugese man o' war: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_-SFpDbEmeM/UFyMmxNyp3I/AAAAAAAAEs8/PGj_7F3xt8A/s1600/P-Man-o-War%5B1%5D.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_-SFpDbEmeM/UFyMmxNyp3I/AAAAAAAAEs8/PGj_7F3xt8A/s1600/P-Man-o-War%5B1%5D.jpg) expecially if you add some kind of sail or crest on top!
And of course "Man o' war" is also the name of an actual warship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-of-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-of-war)
I think it fits quite well!
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Well, if we are going to give it new names, I've been thinking Taurus for a while. It's big and bulky, but if you get the horns, your going to have a bad time.
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How about "Man o' war"?
The ship kinda looks like a big jellyfish, like the actual portugese man o' war: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_-SFpDbEmeM/UFyMmxNyp3I/AAAAAAAAEs8/PGj_7F3xt8A/s1600/P-Man-o-War%5B1%5D.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_-SFpDbEmeM/UFyMmxNyp3I/AAAAAAAAEs8/PGj_7F3xt8A/s1600/P-Man-o-War%5B1%5D.jpg) expecially if you add some kind of sail or crest on top!
And of course "Man o' war" is also the name of an actual warship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-of-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-of-war)
I think it fits quite well!
It does sound good (except that the Man O' War isn't a jellyfish, it's just related to them :P)
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Well, we're back to sea creatures.
Looks like your streak may continue, LordFunPants.
I do like the Man o' War.
The creature (when seen from the side) looks a lot like the ship in question (when seen from the top): http://i1.treknature.com/photos/261/portugese-man-of-war.jpg
The Man o' War is bulky and puffy (like our ship) has a dignified ring to it (like our ship) and a quick wiki search provides us with this fact:
"Despite its outward appearance, the man o' war is not a jellyfish but a siphonophore, which differs from jellyfish in that it is not actually a single organism, but a colonial organism made up of many minute individuals called zooids."
Sure sounds like a well-functioning crew to me.
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oh and just to note with the fishy streak. . . the Spire was almost called Babel ,. . . another type of fish so to speak :P
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How funny, I was discussing the Man O War thing last night. We were talking about just general names for Airships.
Yes, I like Man O War~
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Babel ,. . . another type of fish so to speak :P
What you did there, I see. - Yoda
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I'm liking the bird names. Looks like it even has a little beak in the lower front of the ship. Maybe if or when ship customization becomes a thing that'll be a section that could be fun to alter
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So, after looking at the picture a bit, it seems a very similar jump to the junker's gun jump can be made from the outer top guns to the lower guns.
Given that the current meta is that you shoot the gat first, and then you shoot the flak. This would allow 2 gunners to get 4 guns on the target. Strip the hull first with 2 gats, and then jump down to finish them with 2 flaks.
This may not work against squids or goldfish, due to their quick rebuild time. The delay between dismounting the gun, making the jump, remounting a different gun, and aiming on target would definitely be noticeable. The time taken to climb back up to the gats even more so. For this, the normal 1 gat, 1 flak would work, with the option of the pass being made on the left or the right. Against all the other ships though, it would be tough to get the hull up in time, and 8 flak shots would kill any ship, even the galleon.
Of course, provided the main engi isn't repairing anything at the time, the center gun would be great for a field gun, artemis, or banshee. Which would be used to provide some extra range/disable.
So even though five guns on a four man ship doesn't make much sense, if you stagger the fire times (like you do), it could be very possible to make use of all of them without ever having the pilot leave the helm.
Note: I'm talking about using exclusively flak instead of flak or mortar for 2 reasons:
The first being heavy ammo is common for both gat and flak, but not for mortar. Allowing the guns to be manned by engineers, rather than gunners. Which means in addition to having more repair and fire removal on-board, those 4 guns can now be buffed as well.
The second reason is that the mortar takes a few shots to sight in during most situations, which would add a considerable amount of time to required to switch from the piercing weapons to the explosive weapons.
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The other reason is that the mortar doesn't have as much arc as the flak, so getting two on one target would be tough.
That'd definitely be interesting to try. You'd only have a few degrees to work with, but that'd be offset by the length/width of the ship facing you, so there'd actually be a good chance of making it work. If done right, it could be fantastically OP.
So even though five guns on a four man ship doesn't make much sense
It makes sense for the same reason that it makes sense on a Junker or a Galleon. You can have two different broadsides with two different strategies. Have a sniper side and a brawler side, or a brawler side and a utility side. I wrote a whole lot on that subject earlier in this thread.
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5 flares, 1 balloon.
Gunner fires top, engineers fire side outer, then side inner. That is the potential. 10 flares on a single target.
:D
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I'm not quite sure whether the inner flaks or the outer gats will be the limiting factor on the ship, because the gats are at a pretty funky angle, but look like they ought to aim forward well enough. It would definitely be tight though.
I should have clarified that I meant the possibility of 5 intersecting fields of fire on a 4 man ship doesn't make much sense.
A lot of the double strategy builds people have posted look really fun, and with the advantage of being able to swap from one side to the other faster than the junker and galleon being there, it's even better. Even just being able to choose between a broadside or straight approach is a great feature feature too. It offers a lot of versatility.
However, having 5 guns all facing in generally the same direction... it's just too tempting to not want to fire all of them at once. ;)
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I'm not quite sure whether the inner flaks or the outer gats will be the limiting factor on the ship, because the gats are at a pretty funky angle, but look like they ought to aim forward well enough. It would definitely be tight though.
We'll have to see. From what I could see in the video, the lower guns might be at less than 45°. It all depends on the angle of each gun.
However, having 5 guns all facing in generally the same direction... it's just too tempting to not want to fire all of them at once.
Agreed. Imagine five gatlings at once...
Better yet, imagine Flayed, with four quintuple-gat mantas firing on a single target.
If only.
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5 harpoons is all you guys really need . . .
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5 harpoons is all you guys really need . . .
This sounds like Bubbles.... Lordfunpants you may want to change your password :p
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actually . . . apparently someone got on my computer the other day and tested that very same set up out. . i was told "dont do it. . . " . . he said something about 4 harpoons firing off at the same time. . .
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actually . . . apparently someone got on my computer the other day and tested that very same set up out. . i was told "dont do it. . . " . . he said something about 4 harpoons firing off at the same time. . .
PLEASE don't fix this...
At least not on the first day of release.
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The Puffer. Name it, Tetraodontidae.
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It's the Blowfish with those poons.
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Call it the fugu!
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Man O War is growing on me more and more. If this is a Baronies ship design then Man O War would fit nicely. Its got that royal pretentious sound to it.
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Personally, I like "Heron" or "Man 'o War," and the former only because I suggested it.
If our good friend the dev does decide to change the name to one discussed here, it'll probably be "Man 'o War," unless he absolutely despises the name for some reason.
It fits the ship, it fits the gag, and the people like it.
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interestingly enough, if i recall correctly, man 'o war was a possible name discussed at one point, cause i do know i briefly used some reference of man 'o wars while doing early concept art.
with that said, god knows what it'll be called, i dont necessarily get the final say, but i'll be sure to hint names if i get the opportunity. i like alot of these so far. if anything i can see you guys naming your "manta rays" after what you suggest here :P i know i'll probably end up naming what ever this ship is called "the manta ray" in honor of the code name for a bit assuming it changes (hell i should do this with all my ships just to be silly :P )
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coelacanth would be a cool name. Its the name of a deep sea fish whose buoyancy is not via air but rather oil - a strange method of flotation, same as this new concept ship!
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coelacanth would be a cool name. Its the name of a deep sea fish whose buoyancy is not via air but rather oil - a strange method of flotation, same as this new concept ship!
That's the bastard with the bone face and eyes and can chomp through things like the jaws of life, right?
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Albatross
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to finish this ship. . i must blow it up. . . so very odd . .
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That sounds like an entertaining job.
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to finish this ship. . i must blow it up. . . so very odd . .
"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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Is it going to be in our hands before the end of the month (please say yes, please say yes)?
I bet the response will be "I can't tell you" :P
to finish this ship. . i must blow it up. . . so very odd . .
"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
Saluted
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Is it going to be in our hands before the end of the month (please say yes, please say yes)?
My name is Sunderland and "I like potatos" :P
End of this month or the beginning of the next.
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i want to say soon, i really do, but i'm not making any promises here :P from my poor estimates i say i can get this guy done rather quickly from here. . .buuuttt you never know what the hell jumps out at you last minute, glitches, bugs, unforeseen hell that sorta thing :X my heart sank earlier when some kind of bug caused the balloon to umm. . explode into a million sharp polygon edges while deflating >>; (was fixed . . now i'm paranoid though)
with that said, this ship has probably gotten the most love both in regard to design revisions to cleaning things on a technical level. hopefully it'll all pay off
i'm really excited lets just put it that way, wanna see that manta ray dance party in action
-
explode into a million sharp polygon edges while deflating
Awesome.....
I'll be at that dance party though!
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explode into a million sharp polygon edges while deflating
Awesome.....
I'll be at that dance party though!
yeaa, the game turns into a horror game at that point. . . just picture walking down that pathway in between zeppelins as sharp objects just burst from either side of you. . horror. . absolute horror
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However, having 5 guns all facing in generally the same direction... it's just too tempting to not want to fire all of them at once.
Agreed. Imagine five gatlings at once...
Better yet, imagine Flayed, with four quintuple-gat mantas firing on a single target.
If only.
Imagine if the ship had a gimmick where a couple light guns were fired from one point at the same time. So a guy goes to the lever or whatever and both guns are controlled at once but have the same ammo and all, also their arcs aren't different so it would be like controlling the two guns at the front/the port of a pyrad at the same tme. So there were 2 of these duel light gun stations on the broadside and the other singular light gun on the upper deck. The most brutal gatflak ever :P
So quintuple gat could happen, but really i'm thinking quintuple carronade, or even more brutal, quintuple flares
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4 anything that has a good turning radius is murder. i still prefer 3 mortars, just cause you see a rain of black smoke in front of you as you pilot. . . as well as bullet shells occasionally raining on you from above
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The Manta Ray law:
The closer we get to this thing's release, the slower time passes.
-
which means just before this gets released. . time will be going so slow we'll think we're literally stopped frozen in our tracks. . . . . which means that day will never come O__O *what a twist* oh well makes my life easier
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I just KNOW this thing is going to come out when I'm outta town.
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YOU'RE KILLING ME!
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I just KNOW this thing is going to come out when I'm outta town.
So James... When are you out of town? :P
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Did anyone else notice what they changed Sunderlands subtext to? :)
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Did anyone else notice what they changed Sunderlands subtext to? :)
Wait...
Dammit Cul XD
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I just KNOW this thing is going to come out when I'm outta town.
So James... When are you out of town? :P
I leave.... Uhhhh... Tomorrow. Yea.
And I get back in.... Uhhh.... 5 days.
So, yea. Don't release it then, or anything.
((Don't worry guys, I read somewhere that Game Developers are highly susceptible to reverse psychology. The same source says that they can't read things in double parenthesis either.))
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If you gave it a mouth and the ability to suck in other ships... oh yes... oh yes...
-
Hoping to be done today. . . wish me luck
P.s. i'm so sorry James T Kirk :P (actually you might be back when it officially gets release assuming all goes well)
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I'll be at the dance party in spirit.
H-have fun with the new ship you guys. *sniff*
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If you gave it a mouth and the ability to suck in other ships... oh yes... oh yes...
(Why do I have to be the one to say it?). So, like a whale? A, oh I dunno, flying whale? Some may call it a "skywhale"?
-
Yama Tsukami... (Monster Hunter Nerd)
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ACs dead here. . mouse wasn't working this morning, the editor wont load so i can test things, things catching on fire, Squid was showing with a pink gloss over it (not the normal no texture pink, ie shiney squid) come ooonn mantaaa *one of those days*
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Only the finest of working conditions for the employees of Muse Games.
-
The beating will continue till morale improves. . . and the Manta Ray is finished
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all that beating. . .
(http://i.imgur.com/9FuO8u6.jpg)
at least the skies all so blue
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Have you ever considered stringing the ropes up in such a way as to make a really difficult jumping puzzle for bored crew?
-
i have. . i really have. . . as a gamer i love platforming. . . lets leave it at that :P
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Were the ropes on the back of the Galleon specifically set up to give access to the steam pipe?
-
everything lenz does has a purpose, what that purpose is, is truly unknown to all but him. . .
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mayhaps when we get the manta ray will we also be seeing a faction feature from which its design originates?
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I just want to say, after sunderland showed me some ropes on a pyra that let you get up to the guns from the pilots deck, I've been practicing. And I would like to humbly request that every single rope on the Manta has a hitbox please.
Also, let's speculate about Gomidog saying "Happy Girl"
Also, on the goldfish, I really like going to the ceiling above the captain. Everybody ends up saying "WTF How did u do that haxor" and then I teach them this.
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Also, on the goldfish, I really like going to the ceiling above the captain. Everybody ends up saying "WTF How did u do that haxor" and then I teach them this.
Copycat! :P
But really, that one isn't just for fun. That's my sentry post on the Goldfish. It's the only spot on the ship where you can get a full 360° view, and it gives quick access to the entire ship.
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heh, sadly . . i didn't really put much rope collision on this ship :X i figure i test it to see how people feel about it first since earlier rope designs where kinda in the way of peoples walk paths. . then i sorta forgot about it
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Aww... I wanted to try climbing from tower to tower on that ship.
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stop making me wanna go back and change it all after the fact >>;
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Well if I'm tempting you to do it, I might as well keep trying :D
I mean, look at how many ropes there are. Wouldn't you just want to see what crazy places you can get yourself to with those?
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I expect to spend a good one to two hours doing nothing but climbing up ropes as soon as this thing hits, please don't take that dream away from me. :3
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well, it seems the ship is ready to go thanks to the help of quite a few people. Can't wait to see you all fly it.
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Awesome! Can't wait either!
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Unleash her upon the world!
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Dev app plz! ;D
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The more i watch this ship the more i want it!
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Hello!
I want to be part of this:
Here my Steam link...
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ Admin edit for privacy -Queso
Thank you!
Wrong thread budy
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Just saying, you can mount the guns from a pyra by jumping on ropes. That's amazing. It's sad you can't do it on the manta... *hint*
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Muse, get us some videos of the Manta structure!
Or some more screenshots! We are dying here!
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Muse, get us some videos of the Manta structure!
Or some more screenshots! We are dying here!
(http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/topic_images/manta_skeleton.gif)
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So... I spent a few minutes on the Mobula today (yes, that's what it's called), and there is no way that a gunner will be viable on the ship. Three engineers without a doubt, and even then it'll be really hard to get substantial firepower without sacrificing repairs.
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Well this is probably why it's called Mobula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobula)
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I will find a way, dammit.
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Damn i'm getting trolled by game developers! My ship will always be pointed in your direction from now on when you see you Cullen! :D
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Muse, get us some videos of the Manta structure!
Or some more screenshots! We are dying here!
(http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/topic_images/manta_skeleton.gif)
My english may not be up to par but I'm pretty sure one of those labels says "Boarding Ladder".
Cullen Confirms
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I will find a way, dammit.
If you like seeing your balloon or engines die, then sure.
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You're right! Boarding ramps are in!!! Spread the word...
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It really is an engineer ship, you could run a top gunner, but then you will have them in charge of 3 guns and an engine
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It really is an engineer ship, you could run a top gunner, but then you will have them in charge of 3 guns and an engine
So a junker with more travel time, and an extra gun.... seems doable... wont know until I get home :(
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Figured it out.
Top engi on gat.
Left engi on lower flak/hull
Right engi on upper gat.lower flak/balloon
Double gatflak on one ship!
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Figured it out.
Top engi on gat.
Left engi on lower flak/hull
Right engi on upper gat.lower flak/balloon
Double gatflak on one ship!
Youtube video!
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Figured it out.
Top engi on gat.
Left engi on lower flak/hull
Right engi on upper gat.lower flak/balloon
Double gatflak on one ship!
Youtube video!
You'll get to try it yourself soon enough :P
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So yeah, to elaborate, here's my main idea for a build right now.
Front gat
Left upper mine launcher/flare
Left lower flak
Right upper gat
Right lower flak
The idea here: when coming into an engagement, the top engi and right engi are on the gatlings, with the left engi on the hull/staying near the flak. Once the hull goes down, the left engi fires the flak and the right engi jumps down onto the right flak and fires it. The right engi handles balloon repairs if necessary.
So you're basically getting dual gats followed by dual flaks on the enemy ship.
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Really? No discussion on the name change?
Personally, I think it's perfect. Way more clever then anything we came up with.
A flying manta ray for our flying Manta Ray.
Got a nice, elegant ring to it and everything.
Keep up the good work Muse!
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My ship's name will henceforth be "Forever Manta".
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The ship is rather slow and not very manoeuvrable, the hull health is a bit better than the Spire's, and the hull armour is roughly the same as the Pyramidion's.
But oh my gosh, it rises as if it was on hydrogen. It's absolutely insane.
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Sunderland, since you've already been on one, and everyone will be flying them in the upcoming days, yours should be named "Before it was Cool"
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That's true, I think I might have been the first non-Muse to be on it!
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Stop it Sunderland! i gotta work late tonight and you're making me wanna leave so i can fly that great flying manta already!
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Haven't flown it yet, but in my opinion this is not a brawler gat flaker. I'm putting 4 mercs on it, everyone's taking charged, we'll park somewhere and go to town...
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Artemises.
Uh, Artemi.
Arte... Arta...
You get what I mean.
Non-stop Manticore, baby.
-Edit- I know this can be done on a Junker, but the Mobula is new.
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I don't think the arcs work for quad merc, but triple merc plus an Artemis could work.
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4 harpoons and a mine launcher. . make it happen
when all you guys get a chance to play give me what ever feedback you wish! whether good or bad. yes i already know rope collisions :P but things like getting stuck in awkward collisions, if things aren't clear on the ship, or if you just like the ship, what ever it may be. just know i can't do anything about raw stats (speed/turning etc)! that's for a greater power to deal with :P
also. . . chute vent + hydrogen dodging. . . makes you feel like a matador when anyone tries to ram you
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birthday cake 2.0
4 banshees and a gat on the right upper side. Fire everywhere- and once the armor goes down, it'll chew away like the regret of eating the last slice of your niece's birthday cake.
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Might as well just call the next community event "Battle of the Mobulas"
-edit- Mobuli? Moble?
I'm bad at this.
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Mobulae sounds way cooler
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birthday cake 2.0
4 banshees and a gat on the right upper side. Fire everywhere- and once the armor goes down, it'll chew away like the regret of eating the last slice of your niece's birthday cake.
Count me in... Please
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Mobulae would most likely be the correct pluralization if I remember anything from my three years of Latin (I don't).
-
Yes, that would most certainly be the correct plural.
Of course, that's assuming that it's nominative :D
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Aren't all genus names in the nominative? Where's MetaFive when you need him?
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Yes, genus names are nominative.
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This is the most gameplay relevant discussion I can possibly imagine.
-
Anyways...
With this thing having such high vertical acceleration, it can probably make up for its being so squishy by rising above enemy ships and using the balloon as a shield while unloading double gatflak into them. However, getting behind it while be a massive headache for the Mobula crew. This thing turns like a mountain, so keeping a Junker behind it with a broadside pointed wouldn't be a problem. The only escape would be to drop and rise out of the way.
Also, I change my mind about the crew. Two engineers and a gunner all the way.
EDIT: Changed my mind again. Three engineers would be better.
-
EDIT: EDIT: nvm, all pilots.
-
No, this time I've decided for sure that three engis would be best. A gunner could be run, but it would be a bad idea.
Did I mention that the reason I'm having trouble deciding is because of a certain balance change? You know... One of the ones lots of people wanted (not necessarily myself)...
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Cue the speculation.
-
A certain staple was dramatically.
-
Did I mention that the reason I'm having trouble deciding is because of a certain balance change? You know... One of the ones lots of people wanted (not necessarily myself)...
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/YKUOB8MN4Kc/hqdefault.jpg)
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Despite that, I'll still make [censored] work on the [censored].
But damn, I've been working on tonnes of DPS calculations and strategizing just to figure out how to get the most out of [censored] on the [censored] and [censored].
-
I hate you sooo much... >_<
-
I almost posted that with all the censored stuff, but I decided to keep the suspense going :P
Acutally, I'll drop a hint. Three of those censored parts are ship names, and the other two are a certain type of [censored].
-
at gay and the lak fay on the ull hay?
-
No, not really. But getting there.
-
The standard (censored) to bring while a (censored) when you are (censored) what (censored) you will be doing has been (censored)
-
I concur. I was quite shocked to see how much they [censored] [censored] on [censored].
-
why are you doing this?!
-
[Censored. So much censored because you have no idea and we're just going to censor this ok?]
-
It's gonna end up being something stupid.
Like, they buffed the rebuilding power on the pipe wrench, or something.
-
No, it's something seriously big and meta-changing. You'll find out soon enough.
-
Oh god, it's boarding.
I mean, look at the signs, people.
Cullen (who works for Muse, mind you) posts a picture of the structure of an actual manta ray.
The actual ship changes names to "Mobula," a close relative to the manta ray.
Cullen's chart still applies.
On this chart, there have been reported sightings of a "boarding ramp."
Several players who can be said to be "in the know" tease the other players with "meta changing" information.
Muse has officially stated there will be no boarding, but here the players are implying the cursed gameplay mechanic.
LordFunPants, designer of several ships (including the Mobula) has stated that he is open to suggestions regarding the new ship and how it works.
He is readying himself to the community response to boarding.
Finally, there have been 3 points of evidence up to this section regarding boarding.
Half-life 3 confirmed.
-
I'll just preemptively get into the fetal position now, and await Cullen's wrath.
-
No, it's something seriously big and meta-changing. You'll find out soon enough.
I like wild speculation:
* 5th crew member
* Gat now does Fletch damage
* Permahull rebuild-able with special item.
* Pipewrench does better repair per second than the mallet
* Hull damage will be point specific so you can't "camp the hull" but must run all over the ship.
* Fire now requires four stacks to disable a gun.
* Artemis and Maticore rockets are heat seeking again, but will only chase flares.
* Heavy flack does piercing and explosive damage but has a longer arming time.
* Bird strikes implemented as a way of disabling engines.
* New gun the bird seed gun, attracts birds to cluster of birdseed.
-
Maybe the long-awaited new piercing weapon (besides the mine launcher)?
-
Nope!
If anybody has questions about the Mobula, I'll do my best to answer them. Be aware, however, that my knowledge is limited to the time I spent with it yesterday, so I won't be able to answer everything.
-
* Bird strikes implemented as a way of disabling engines.
* New gun the bird seed gun, attracts birds to cluster of birdseed.
crap. . they're onto us
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* Bird strikes implemented as a way of disabling engines.
* New gun the bird seed gun, attracts birds to cluster of birdseed.
crap. . they're onto us
Ha I knew the avian menace was more than just simple set dressing. You have been training them to attack airships this whole time. There will be no biplanes in adventure mode, will there? Just bird after bird throwing themselves into your engines and covering your ship in white guano. Perhaps their nefarious actions are guided by a floating leviathan, some call a "Sky Whale." Oh Lord Dick Tim you were right all along, I was foolish for ever doubting you.
-
http://youtu.be/jE5dJDgZ644
-
It's something seriously big and meta-changing. You'll find out soon enough.
-
It's something seriously big and meta-changing. You'll find out soon enough.
What is it with you and saying that I like potatoes?!?
-
It's something seriously big and meta-changing. You'll find out soon enough.
What is it with you and saying that I like potatoes?!?
Bite your tongue.... we all know you like Bacon
-
I almost want to spoil Sunderlands fun and tell you everything he's been bullshitting about, but I won't, because I am a bastard as well (Canadians polite my ass).
Generally this feels like another good update, if not lacking in polish at the moment, can't wait to get back in to nail down a few things.
-
The one thing I have to say about the Mobula is that it is odd in the sense that it doesn't look like a normal airship structure. Perhaps this is due to the lack of overhanging balloon, but it feels like the odd one out, with Squid as a distant cousin. Also on the subject, what is it with Muse and marine animals?
Goldfish
Squid
Manta Ray
Qwerty
Sky Whale
Harpoon (kinda)
Hmm, with all this marine madness, I bet we'll see the Electric Eel. It'll be long but very thin, and it will be premiered with the return of the God Lamp and added weather effects, such as lightning. The trick will be where you can unload your boarding party, and fighting in the cramped deck. Take that, meta.
-
As the update draws closer, I was given the go-ahead to tell you guys one thing in the upcoming addition to Guns of Icarus: Online.
1.3 Release Notes:
Content:
-Gameplay
Section I.
1. New Ship.
-
I'm in NY right now.
Don't MAKE me come over there.
(Please, don't make me. I'm rather far upstate and it would be quite the drive.)
-
If I was in New York I would buy them donuts as thanks for the game.
-
As the update draws closer, I was given the go-ahead to tell you guys one thing in the upcoming addition to Guns of Icarus: Online.
1.3 Release Notes:
Content:
-Gameplay
Section I.
1. New Ship.
Somebody BAN him please! He is spamming and trolling! Report him for abuse!
>:(
-
I am honestly surprised that no one has guessed what Sunderland and I have been talking about. I thought my comment would have given it away.
Now i really want to say what the change is. Knowledge is a heavy burden.
-
5 mine launcher front mobula is the ultimate troll ship, run into 25 of your own mines, destroy everything on your ship and almost finish off your permahull, its lawltastic.
-
oh god. ive just read throught the posts. THeY ADDED PASSIVE BONUSES TO CLASSES!!!! and im assuming some sort of debuffd for each class.
this is an assumption until sunderland confirms but im 90% sure im correct
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oh god. ive just read throught the posts. THeY ADDED PASSIVE BONUSES TO CLASSES!!!! and im assuming some sort of debuffd for each class.
this is an assumption until sunderland confirms but im 90% sure im correct
Nope, its rebalancing of something that's in play at the moment, nothing like that added.
-
Is it on the Gatling Gun?
-
I bet it's Heavy Clip.
-
Lol, passive bonuses. Guess again!
Is it on the Gatling Gun?
It isn't strictly the gat, but it's heavily linked to it.
-
is it the fact that using the chemical spray on potted plants now makes them grow into monstrous airship eating lemon fly traps? that count as piercing damage?
-
I bet it's Heavy Clip.
(http://i.imgur.com/S8yND.png)
-
It was a heavily loaded question, after all.
We've been giving hints at this all day, and it took you guys that long to figure it out? This is like when I hinted towards the lumber nerf and in fact gave it away completely but nobody seemed to notice :D
-
Hey I just bumped in :P
-
I'm gonna have to wait a week or more to try out all these awesome changes and additions while you guys all run heavy clips on your mine launchers on your Mobulae.
May I direct all of you to the 39 second mark of this little clip?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L04dpkbU3IA
-
Why on Earth would anybody run heavy on a mine launcher?
-
...to make the mine fall faster when you pop its balloon?
-
That is not how physics works!
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity
=p
EDIT: To clarify, a bowling ball falls faster than a feather in an atmosphere, yes? Same principle.
-
Thank you, naufrago.
I've got a quick question on the Mobula: Is the balloon back in the pathways like we originally thought?
-
Thank you, naufrago.
I've got a quick question on the Mobula: Is the balloon back in the pathways like we originally thought?
There are two side channels, one on each side, each side gets 1 gun, 1 turning engines and the balloon or hull.
Hull side will need an eng to be down there all the time, so that side wont will be your utility/not gat/flak side.
The "main" engine on the top of the ship can be repaired from the main deck, so the topdeck dude doesnt need to climb up to fix it.
Also the underside is not 100% balloon, there are bits of hull hitbox so you can't downslam with only the balloon.
-
I'm still thinking that you might be able to get away with a flak on the lower left that the main engi can pop over to during raspberries.
-
I'm still thinking that you might be able to get away with a flak on the lower left that the main engi can pop over to during raspberries.
You can't guarantee with enough certainty that your hull won't be too busy to get to the flak in time, and you defo couldn't put a gat down there for the same reason, it doesn't feel like a brawling ship, even though its got a metric ton of hull armour and seem to have a lot of perma (servers went down before we could test perma, armour seems to be galleonish)
-
The stats certainly didn't reflect that. It seemed to have a Pyra-like amount of hull armour according to the graph.
Then again, the graph sucks.
What I'm thinking is that if you're approaching high, they'll be landing a lot less gat hits on the hull (and they'll need heavy clip, which is terrible). With the way this thing rises keeping the altitude advantage shouldn't be that hard, and there might be a chance for double flak.
It's just speculation. I'll probably end up using a mine/flare left side or something.
-
The stats certainly didn't reflect that. It seemed to have a Pyra-like amount of hull armour according to the graph.
Then again, the graph sucks.
What I'm thinking is that if you're approaching high, they'll be landing a lot less gat hits on the hull (and they'll need heavy clip, which is terrible). With the way this thing rises keeping the altitude advantage shouldn't be that hard, and there might be a chance for double flak.
It's just speculation. I'll probably end up using a mine/flare left side or something.
It defo seems like a ship where you want to always be above, as if you are below them, they have a MASSIVE target.
The problem with mines on it, is you don't want to shoot them in front of you, as running into them is a good way to screw yourself over, I can see mines being more of a rear mounted weapon, eg Galleon rear, squid, pyra side, as it has a good arc
-
That's true. With the way the guns are angled and the ship turns, using mines would be a bit of a hassle. I suppose you could turn it all the way left and lesmok it to stay clear of the ship's path, but that's still a cumbersome way of laying them. But then what would you put as the other left gun? Another Gatling for the trifecta when the opportunity arises?
-
Did us commoners ever figure out what, exactly, the devs did to the heavy clip?
Because my guess right now is lower damage.
-
-35% fire rate
-
Shouldn't that be "[censored]% [censored] [censored]" ?
-
Meh, might as well let that go. After all, everybody knows that the lumber got a massive projectile speed buff and that heavy clip was nerfed at this point.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity
=p
EDIT: To clarify, a bowling ball falls faster than a feather in an atmosphere, yes? Same principle.
A bowling ball falls faster due to wind resistance. Weight does not affect this. A rubber ball and a lead ball the same size will fall at the same speed. Same sould be for a mine and a heavy mine. Read your own article.
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Meh, might as well let that go. After all, everybody knows that the lumber got a massive projectile speed buff and that heavy clip was nerfed at this point.
Projectile speed increase, aka a nerf at close range as it will raise the effective arm time, and considering incendiary ammo doesn't slow as much anymore that plus the fire buff and we might see flame weapons becoming more common.
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i have to admit, seeing the mine launcher and mobula released side by side, . i knew it was going to be a "Bad" thing. . in the sense that everyone always goes to the new stuff, . . and mobula + mines is a tricky tactic to make work :P though, setting the engine in reverse and laying a wall of mines from 4 launchers was always something i wanted to see
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Meh, might as well let that go. After all, everybody knows that the lumber got a massive projectile speed buff and that heavy clip was nerfed at this point.
Projectile speed increase, aka a nerf at close range as it will raise the effective arm time, and considering incendiary ammo doesn't slow as much anymore that plus the fire buff and we might see flame weapons becoming more common.
Yeah, the moment I noticed the speed increase I thought "OMG, arming time". In fact, I first noticed the nerd when I was making sure that the lumberjack OHKOed the mine's balloon. I fired a mine, backed up quite a bit (out of old arming time), and fired an entire clip to no effect.
I spent a few seconds completely baffled as to why the gat did more to that balloon than the lumber, and then I fired a projectile high... And... Yikes.
Were flames buffed in this patch? I didn't check.
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Meh, might as well let that go. After all, everybody knows that the lumber got a massive projectile speed buff and that heavy clip was nerfed at this point.
Projectile speed increase, aka a nerf at close range as it will raise the effective arm time, and considering incendiary ammo doesn't slow as much anymore that plus the fire buff and we might see flame weapons becoming more common.
Yeah, the moment I noticed the speed increase I thought "OMG, arming time". In fact, I first noticed the nerd when I was making sure that the lumberjack OHKOed the mine's balloon. I fired a mine, backed up quite a bit (out of old arming time), and fired an entire clip to no effect.
I spent a few seconds completely baffled as to why the gat did more to that balloon than the lumber, and then I fired a projectile high... And... Yikes.
Were flames buffed in this patch? I didn't check.
You can't extinguish on cooldown anymore, thus fire buff, backing up while chucking out mines, that would be crazy, if people ran into them
Dust clouds and tar clouds filled with mines anyone? :D
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No more extinguish on cooldown? The hell? Fire will be massively, stupidly OP. There's no way that it'll be possible for extinguishes to keep up with flamethrowers.
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What? No way.
If that's true, there's actually zero reason to extinguish any more at all (unless the cooldown timer for it becomes like... half of what it is now).
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Hopefully there's some kind of accompanying buff to extinguishing tools, like a shorter cooldown. Otherwise the close-range meta will be dominated by Junkers with flamer trifectas.
Or worse, Mobulas with flamer tetrafectas.
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Interestingly cooldown for extinguishes is exactly half of what it is now.
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You can't extinguish on extinguisher cool downs or all repair cool downs.
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Interestingly cooldown for extinguishes is exactly half of what it is now.
That's a lot more workable, then.
I'd like to see an increase to the amount of time chem spray stays on a component as another change then too, honestly. Otherwise I think it'll mostly be extinguishers for everyone.
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Ok ok either make new topics for these revelations or keep it on the Manta. Internet attention-spans man....
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Ok ok either make new topics for these revelations or keep it on the Manta. Internet attention-spans man....
Sorry the info on the new patch was just too...
Squirrel!?!
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Or I could rename this thread WILD PATCH SPECULATION! + Some old Mobula stuff.
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https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1560.0.html
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Messing around with the Mobula and my main criticism is...the guard rail in front of the wheel, it seems a touch too high. I don't know why, but I find it extremely distracting.
"Captain, they're above us!"
"Just a second...just...looking at this rail."
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ALL I SEE IS a giant merc platform
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SHHH dont tell anyone
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Yeah, so many mercs on the Mobulae.
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All Mercs and full AI, all day.
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Crewing will be interesting - there are no shortcuts up from the wings to reach the main drive engine behind pilot station - getting down to the hull or balloon sure but coming back up - I only managed to get up onto the rear engine housing once.
As to strategic use - I parked it in the wreck where Desert Scrap CP is staged - seems the perfect spot for it - rear covered, balloon hunkered down, 5 mercuries facing out.
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Well, the only mildly interesting stunt I could pull off on this ship was getting onto the back end of the rudder, which is useless for engineering.
My main feature request for 1.3.1/1.4: Mobula rope collisions.
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I wont be flying this
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My main feature request for 1.3.1/1.4: Mobula rope collisions.
Seconded. All in favor?
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I love it!
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I dunno I can see the mobula paired up with a smaller ship like a goldfish, I just have this mental image of a goldfish flying backwards and using the open tail section as a kind of damage absorber.
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Speaking of backwards, mobula is probably the worst ship to fly reverse. Balloon is super far from hull, and I can't find much parkour to do.
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I wont be flying this
Neither will I. I can't decide if the Mobula is squishier than the Spire, or not. Slow and with a 200+ degree blind spot.
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More health and armour than the Spire, plus the hull area on the front is very small. But damn, that blind spot...
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The one real complaint I have with the mobula is not even that engineering is a pain, but that it's boring.
One of my favorite things about engineering is learning the ins and outs of every ship -- figuring out how to get from point A to point B in the shortest time possible, since every second counts when you're under fire. There are plenty of "tricks" if you will -- jumping from the railing to main deck on pyramidion is one of the most basic, and then things like repairing the hull from underneath on a junker, etc. On the mobula, there are no tricks, because there's one way to get to most things. To get to the hull, there's a singular hallway that leads to a cramped room that has the hull and nothing else. Normally when I'm repairing the hull, I'm also keeping my eyes on the action so I know who's hitting us with what and where the enemy is coming from; I'm also using my spyglass to spot enemies between cooldowns if they're unspotted. With the mobula's hull, however, I can see the hull and nothing else. It makes my job extremely boring and my usefulness feels pretty low because I'm no longer helping out my captain by keeping my eyes on what's going on around us. I know there's a gun down the hall from the hull that I'd be using when I got the chance as well, but when repairing it's incredibly dull. All I'd ask for is more ways to get to things to keep my job a little more interesting. A connecting hallway between the hull and balloon, a couple more ladders, etc.
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taking notes, taking notes, taking notes.
not sure how the mobula will evolve from here (to early to tell) outside of some rope colliders in places that don't interfere(you win you scallywags), but all these points i'm going to keep in mind for ships to come whether i'm the one making it or not
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I have the worst stupidest most silly idea ever. What if there was a broken beam off the back of the ship where you could either jump between the back engine areas or fall to your doom.
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annd yeap. . captain phoenix is it, found the easter egg already, didn't even let met give any clues to, wasn't expecting anything different though (its posted on the guns of icarus facebook page unless i missed it here)
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So, it seems like there might be some way to glitch your way from the engines back to the top deck, and I really hope I can figure it out.
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You can keep jumping and eventually get up, but it takes some time, probably quicker to go the long way round.
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You can keep jumping and eventually get up, but it takes some time, probably quicker to go the long way round.
Yeah, if only there was a ledge that was a regular way to get up so some parkour could evolve.
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Not sure if this made it up here, but someone was complaining about the railing height in front of the Helm. Well, there is a good thing about that railing height -- it allows the pilot to very easily use the top middle gun by looking up.
First impression idea: Pilot uses that spot as a flak gun when the armor on the enemy ship goes down, then quickly goes back to the helm.
Ideas?
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The only parkour stuff I've found on the Mobula is the ability to jump along the front to get to the other topside guns. Nothing really useful for repairs, though.
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Don't forget you can fix the middle engine from underneath. Not parkour but even the AI does it oddly.
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oddly enough thats probably the only smart thing i'm surprised the AI does. . with that said. . . made some minor changes to the collision mesh, not sure if it'll go in, but heres hoping.
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To be honest, I'm happy with two separate hallways and no access from one steering engine to the other. That would break the "main deck engineer" role and now two engineers would be required to repair engines, which would cost firepower and balance the ship a little. Maybe captains will tax the engines a bit less.
The maneuverability is much better than I expected - it can turn faster than the Pyramidion when using Phoenix Claw, and the vertical speed is just awesome. It's rather easy to avoid lumberjack shots or rams when compared to other ships. It just moves forward rather slowly, but I think it's a good speed to balance the raw front gun power.
As for parkour, the captain can hop on nearby side guns and quickly hop back via railing. However, it's easy to fall. There's also the aforementioned jump from central gun to the side ones.
In conclusion, this ship might take more skill and planning than people wanted. I think many people are just too spoiled with cookie-cutter builds that take little to no skill to use (gat/flak Pyramidion, for instance) to try it. The possibilities are endless. I already have a build in mind and I think it might work.
I'm definitely taking the Mobula for a spin when 1.3 goes live.
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I like this ship a lot and i will be flying it.
I have two big qualms however
- For engineers, it will be BORING to watch hull/ballon without being able to even see the battlefield. Extremely boring that i can see people NOT joining on a mobula for this reason. Also, each engineer MUST bring standard loadout with no buffs, because otherwise the other engineer must run from one side of the ship to the other and that is not feasible. It would be solved by having a connecting tunnel between port and starboard side... but it's too late for modeling i suppose.
- AI is probably worthless on this ship, unless the engineers KNOW that they HAVE to stay in their side of the ship and not run around like crazy. I'm pretty sure they dont know any better, though.
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Also, each engineer MUST bring standard loadout with no buffs, because otherwise the other engineer must run from one side of the ship to the other and that is not feasible.
3 engineers, the 3rd one with a buffing hammer. Buff crisis averted.
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Seeing this thing all i can think of is perfect sniper :/
2 merc
2 art
1 either of above xD
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This is a pretty trash ship, going by first impressions. Someone will have to pull out some miraculous emergent gameplay to make it decent. It's essentially a Spire 2.0 that's even harder to repair. It has horrible survivability, seems to have bad speed, and has no heavy mounts.
It's good cannon fodder, though.
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It would be nice if the balloon and hull were about where they are now, but on the top deck. That would make it less painful for sure, and give the engi something to look at besides walls.
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I spent some time in Sandbox today to see if there's some way that you can get the three engines in one go. Results: if you could jump on top of the turning engines from the bottom deck, it would work. But that is not the case as far as I can see.
I heard about being able to jump up to the top gun... It works really well. After getting off the helm, the pilot can simply jump up and hit e. In fact, I'd say it would be best to have the pilot man the top gun, with a dedicated engi on the hull while the other two fire away.
By the way, Lordfunpants...
Thank you so much for those rope collisions. You are my hero.
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But the Manta can go up and down so damn quickly and has a much smaller hit box than the Spire. Definitely has dodging potential.
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After flying on one today, I think I can safely say I know what Engineer Hell looks like
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Well gee, it's almost as if it was designed to be a support ship. Maybe trying to brawl with gat/flak is a reason it's so hard to repair.
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With a good Captain/crew and a long-range loadout it's a tough opponent. As a stand-off support sniper on Desert Scrap it's a major PITA if you need to take the CP.
But, there's a lot of new players flying it, crews haven't got the hang of it yet, and some very poor loudouts.. so it looks like it's a squishie for the next couple of weeks. And if a Captain allows himself to face two split opponents that blinds side is a major weakness.
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I used the Mobula extensively yesterday and had a LOT of fun, especially against other mobulas. The biggest threat so far are the squids, because they can run circles around mobulas, which just sit there taking a lot of carronade/flamethrower damage from below.
Basically, the gameplay with the mobula is: kill your enemy before it deals enough damage. And it _can_ do it. I had 2 gats and 2 flaks firing and enemies just died in seconds (yes, I was firing too). With less health than a spire, once the armor is down, it's game over. That means that you have to be able to do the same to your enemies, killing them as soon as their armor is down. This is the true glass cannon, much more so than the spire, in my opinion.
I, for one, am satisfied with the ship, and my crew said they had tons of fun. Nobody complained about "not being able to see the fight outside", because my engineers were shooting most of the time, running inside only occasionaly. With the proper loadout, the crew is going to have a great experience.
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I think the biggest weakness of this ship is it's balloon.
Not just because it's giant.
I was in a goldfish, flying circles around a Mobula when I made the mistake of thinking my gunner had disabled all the guns. In fact, he had disabled 2/5 of them, and I quickly ate point blank merc shots and gat flak fire. Trying to save my life, I quickly chute'd to the ground, forgetting the rapid vertical movement of the Mobula.
It smashed it's own balloon on the ground, killing it. Unable to rise is scraped the dead balloon on the ground, taking out the armor and permahealth in about 2 seconds. Went from sure I was dead to having been awarded the Mobula kill.
It's true the opponent was inexperienced, but the Mobula has got to be the least forgiving against collision (well, Spires has their own special brand of collision). I have to do more science on this (can't fly a Mobula to save my life at the moment), but it's what I saw.
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Really, nobody's discussing the new rope collisions? That was the most fun I had in-game yesterday.
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I was too busy not flying one, lol.
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Since someone brought up the balloon issue I'd like to say, this ship might rise fast, but it drops fast as well, the balloon will keep colliding with the ground and getting destroyed indefinately if you get them bouncing, which is pretty harsh.
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By no means have I tested it extensively, but they all have a little fin that sticks out the bottom that counts as hull. This partially reduces them falling on their balloon.
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From my experimenting yesterday, this seems to be the quickest way to get the three engines in one go with one engineer.
-Jump to one turning and hit it.
-Go AFK and immediately return (Yes, it's a bit cheap. But it's also quick.)
-Go hit the main engine from underneath.
-Jump down to the other turning and hit it.
-If you're doing multiple cycles, go AFK again and repeat the process.
Good for one cycle? Yes. Good for moonshine or kerosene? Meh.
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From my experimenting yesterday, this seems to be the quickest way to get the three engines in one go with one engineer.
-Jump to one turning and hit it.
-Go AFK and immediately return (Yes, it's a bit cheap. But it's also quick.)
-Go hit the main engine from underneath.
-Jump down to the other turning and hit it.
-If you're doing multiple cycles, go AFK again and repeat the process.
Good for one cycle? Yes. Good for moonshine or kerosene? Meh.
Yeah I dunno about you but if the strat relies on AFK button, something is wrong.
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Oh good I wasn't the only one be put off by that.
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I don't like using Go AFK to make things quicker. I was simply stating that that's the quickest means to do it. I wouldn't actually use that method, nor would I encourage it.
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Anyone else getting random drops and rises regardless of what key you're pressing?
Seems to be when stationary the ballon'll behave either like it's burst and you plummet or like it's been helium'd.
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Anyone else getting random drops and rises regardless of what key you're pressing?
Seems to be when stationary the ballon'll behave either like it's burst and you plummet or like it's been helium'd.
Every other play session in practice mode I ran in the Mobula resulted in the ship power diving without any input. I did not take the thing out to a "real game" but I suspect there is a glitch in practice mode. I would write up a proper bug report and send it to the devs, but I was too tired last night from my paying job to do QA for GOIO.
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To those who are complaining about the guard rail infront of the pilot station:
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but they act as iron sights to line up your firing arcs without any guess work. They are useful for aiming your ship. Incredibly useful. You just have to rely on your crew to spot targets for you in between long range slaughter.
The ship is incredibly potent as an artillery platform, and I weep for those who attempt close range gat/flak fighting with it.
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Well I weep for those who claim to weep for those who think that gatflak is workable, because it is.
This monster can get double gat on a target followed by double flak, while still keeping an engineer on the hull. That's a terrifying amount of power.
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I am under the impression that the Mobula is the new Pyramidion.
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In a way I see it as the new Junker. It's a bit of a jack of all trades. It can be a support ship, a brawler, a sniper... I'm really loving the potential for variety.
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To me it's the new spire.
Bit of a glass cannon. Incredibly exploitable weakness. High firepower.
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You all are wrong.
It's definitely the new Squid. :P
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Obviously, the Mobula is the new Galleon. . well almost everything else was mentioned someone was gonna be crazy enough to say it >>;
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#MobulaNewGoldfish
Cause it has a heavy weapon on front, and tons of coverage with it's gun arc.
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Wait you guys need to make another heavy weapon ship.
Time to start working on the new Galleon.
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i've been pushing the idea that the next ship will be a lenz ship, thats all about heavy weapons . . . for the soul reason to keep things even between us, as well as between ships with heavy weapons and those with out.
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Still waiting on those Large Weapons we were promised a while ago. When do we get the big guns? And by that I mean ships that might as well be one giant gun.
And yes, I know that was abandoned. (BUT IF YOU DO ADD IT!)
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I want my howitzer, and I want it as part of my ship.
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the ship is incredibly potent as an artillery platform, and I weep for those who attempt close range gat/flak fighting with it.
won 2 Desert Scrap matches with it - you just need the right mix of long range and short range, and by right mix I mean choosing the turning arcs carefully so you can have crossed arcs from the wings. In one match we were up against a gat/flak Mobula which was lethal close up, but suffered at range. It fills the checkpoint nicely, but the balloon is it's Achilles heel if you know how to exploit it.
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To me it's the new spire.
Bit of a glass cannon. Incredibly exploitable weakness. High firepower.
In a way I see it as the new Junker. It's a bit of a jack of all trades. It can be a support ship, a brawler, a sniper... I'm really loving the potential for variety.
It is the result of crashing a spire and junker together while running moonshine :)
It has the fire power of a junker but a spire's placement and it's profile is pretty much a horizontal spire.
And if your facing it head-on it hull profile is very thin like the junker.
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i've been pushing the idea that the next ship will be a lenz ship, thats all about heavy weapons . . . for the soul reason to keep things even between us, as well as between ships with heavy weapons and those with out.
Dangit.... Why cant I give you Salutes faster!
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From what I saw just now in a match, the Mobula does indeed have no hull to protect the balloon from crashing onto the ground continuously, saw a Mobula velcro onto the ground, their hull was taking no damage, only the balloon, this should be adressed, makes recovering from LJ/Carronade/Flame assaults almost impossible.
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I like the ship a lot.
I am using gatflak on right side, and banshee on lower left.
Hullgineer will shot the banshee when he can, having an easy trifecta while aiming on the second rail point from the center.
Haven't really used the top and top left guns.
I am using the ship by assigning the gunner on top deck, and each engineer to a lower wing, keeping gatflak primary guns on the right side, since balloon is less critical
I am having a good success with this loadout, mostly ignoring ballon in favor of flak fire, and using drogue chute to prevent fast sinking.
I think the pilot on this ship is what really decides the outcome of a fight. Many times i have 1v1'd other mobulae and found myself at their back 10 seconds after an initial frontal engagement.
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Actually, you can manage double gat and triple flak at the moment.
Upper side guns Gatling
Lower side guns flak
Front gun flak
Two engis on gats, one on hull. Once the hull armour goes down, both gat engis jump down to the flaks, and the pilot jumps and gets on the third flak from underneath.
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and the pilot jumps and gets on the third flak from underneath.
Just to make sure people know, this is not an intended function and will probably be fixed, so don't realy take for granted cause it might not work in the future.
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and the pilot jumps and gets on the third flak from underneath.
Just to make sure people know, this is not an intended function and will probably be fixed, so don't realy take for granted cause it might not work in the future.
That's true. In the future I'll probably run a utility weapon up there... Or maybe a merc.
Still, double gatflak works :D
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I'll be really sad if/when the helm -> mid gun jump ends up being taken out. That's really the only fancy jump you can do on the Mobula at the moment. :(
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man, you guys finding glitches we hoped you wouldn't find til we fix it. . . lenz found that one out and there was no reasonable way to fix with what tools we had available outside of making the gun sit a few miles above the helm. . . i also wanted to kill him for finding it cause of course he'd be the one to find a glitch like that...
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Ok Lordfunpants, here's the deal. It's a fair trade. You can take away our helm jump, but in exchange you need to make there be an epic, super parkoury and difficult way to get all the engines in one run with a single engi. I know you're a platformer fan. Doooo iiiitttt :P
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if i had it my way you'd be shooting yourself out the mine launcher from one side of the ship to the other side to repair things quickly ala mario 64
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Awesome.
1.4 Sunderland launcher:
A gun you put on your ship with a 360 degree arc and large firing arc. It fires a mini N-Sunderland onto your own or allied ships. Successful hits give insanely quick repairs to the component and all nearby components for 10 seconds after impact.
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1.4.1: Sunderland launcher is OP, no balance is possible. Removed from game.
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SunderLauncher: Clipsize 180. VoiceChat activated. Shoots ducks. Uses salutes as ammo.
if i had it my way you'd be shooting yourself out the mine launcher from one side of the ship to the other side to repair things quickly ala mario 64
this is why we are friends
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So I was flying against some mobulas today and the biggest issue fighting them was not their firepower but that none of us on the ship could estimate how damaged the mobula was. The changes to the model when a mobula's hull health is gnarly seem to be fairly subtle compared to others. Or I'm just not looking for the right thing.
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the damage indicators seem to be a change in the whole airframe it gets darker - if you l have height on it on it it's very clear as the wings appear more chequered.
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I'd love to see some utility gun for quick navigation of the ship. That would be incredible.
Just have a small weapon mount that has 360 rotation and 1 clip, long reload. Player shoots out of it. I think every single engineer here would use it on all ships they owned.
Speaking of which, Sunderland, did those ropes allow any new tricks? I only tried for a bit but I found nothing D:
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Just have a small weapon mount that has 360 rotation and 1 clip, long reload. Player shoots out of it. I think every single engineer here would use it on all ships they owned.
I wouldn't use it on a Pyra, nor would I use it on a Goldfish, nor would I use it on a Galleon, nor would I use it on a Junker, nor would I use it on Squid, nor would I use it on a Sp- Oh, wait, I would use it on a Spire. There's absolutely nothing else to do on that ship.
Speaking of which, Sunderland, did those ropes allow any new tricks? I only tried for a bit but I found nothing D:
The only potential I saw was to use them as lookout points, sort of like the Goldfish's roof. Otherwise they were just fun to climb.
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So, uh, what's the meta for this ship looking like? I've had ridiculously great results on double artemis low, double carronade mid, merc high. The mid guns could be better ... I think the rationale is just removing a close-range target from his firing arc ASAP, and carronades do that quite well coupled with the Mobula's vertical speed.
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I would like to take a moment to say that 5 Banshees are not only scary effective, buy scary fun.
Thank you.
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I like the idea of a long range side on the left and a close range side on the right.
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Here's my opinion, and in my experience it works quite well in game.
You do NOT need three engineers. You need two standard non-buff engineers (mallet, spanner, extinguisher), and a gunner or buff engineer.
Gun lay out should favor long-range attacks over close quarters combat. Artemis lower deck, both sides. Mercury top captain's-gun. Captain can use the 'trick' to mount the top gun without getting too far from the helm, or the gunner/buffer can use it exclusively. Your choice of close-range weapons on the middle deck. Carronades recommended.
One engineer is totally dedicated to each side; Artemis, engine, and hull/balloon. They NEVER leave their "hallway". Gunner/buffer mid deck, handling the snipe during maneuvers and the close-range guns if an enemy gets too close. Gunner/buffer only has to worry about repairing his guns, and the main engine.
Pilot should equip tar barrel to compensate for the very large blind spot behind the ship. Possibly kerosene, chute vent/hydrogen to complement the ships vertical acceleration, or phoenix claw to keep the enemies in weapon's arc. Burst rounds on artemis for the extra ammo and the AOE increase for accessibility of disable/kill shots. Gunner/Buffer ammo depends on weapons equipped.
Park the ship at mid-long range, that way there should be NO repairs for the balloon/hull "hall"-engineers to worry about. Snipe, snipe, snipe. The two artemis on left and right low should be able to overlap arc at forward facing, and a good deal of side-front. You should be far enough from the engagement that the merc can easily strip armor and disable guns. Artemis disables everything else, and then goes in for the kill when hull drops.
If an enemy gets too close, you have a close range weapon on either side to facilitate a quick getaway, or entirely disable the foe. Carronades, combined with the mobula's climbing ability makes for a quick escape, and fire weapons do well to dissuade the enemy from continuing their attack. During close-range encounters, the engineers will most likely be worrying about hull/balloon depending on the enemies location (balloon low, hull high or on your six). The lack of vertical arc, and slow turn speed of the artemis will not be an issue, as no one will be firing these guns during a direct engagement.
When using this setup, by avoiding all close contact with the enemies, there should be minimal repairs needed. During heavy repairs, each player has a very distinct and defined role, and there should be no real problem getting to components that are, in fact, quite far from one another.
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I like the sound of that mobula loadout. Two artemis and a merc should be a stright killer! a killer I say!
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I like the sound of that mobula loadout. Two artemis and a merc should be a stright killer! a killer I say!
the turning arcs on the artemis mesh nicely so combined with the mrecury it's possible to have 3 forward firing guns on the same target along most of the forward edge of the mobula. The carronades though - I've experimented with them but I find mortars much better as they can actually kill approaching enemies pairing with the artemis nicely.
After reading about it here I tried a 5 banshee load out and would heartily recommend it .
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[On dragonmere's 3 engineer comment]
I love hearing this. Honestly I've found that, with my particular loadout, a gunner manning my top gun works best since I'm reliant on keeping certain guns firing at certain ranges. A gunner can bring the engineers ammo on top of his personal loadout (usually is only 2 types with a 3rd wheel anyways, now the 3rd wheel has a place) so when either engineer has to tend to his trench, the gunner is able to fill in for that weapon at a moments notice, have the right ammo to fire right away, and keep the ship fully effective. Thankfully when he has to fill in, we can forgo the top gun usually.
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if i had it my way you'd be shooting yourself out the mine launcher from one side of the ship to the other side to repair things quickly ala mario 64
You could do this with jump pads. There needs to be a better way out of the hallway aside from the ladder. A small platform with a pneumatic kicker on the engine side would do nicely.
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you know. . . warp pipes were literally mentioned earlier today. . .
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I'm sorry, but when you say "warp pipe" all I can think is:
(http://tinynin.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/warppipe-copy.gif)
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thats exactly what i meant >>
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How about a Portal-GoI crossover? :D
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With Long-Fall Boots!
Now if you fall off a ship, you get to enjoy the rest of the game from the ground.
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thought of a little thing that might make engi's enjoy mobula a bit more... put a walkway at the bottom to join the hull area and balloon area? just a thought :3
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The Mobula needs repair difficulty to balance it. Adding walkways would make it far too easy to run.
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The Mobula needs repair difficulty to balance it. Adding walkways would make it far too easy to run.
^This
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Warp Pipe gun. Fire onto enemy ship. Warp pipe grows on other ship. Jump in warp pipe. Board. ???. Profit!
Balanced and easy way to add boarding. Muse plz add.
In all honesty, though. Some parkour on the mobby would be epic.
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There should be a ladder next to each of the turning engines. Having more than one way to get from the lower deck to the upper deck would not make this ship overpowered. All of the other ships have at least one component next to one another and most of the ships have one next to the captains seat. Making this ship easier to repair would not make it overpowered but would balance it out with the rest.
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2 ladders in the back is definitely going to be a thing for the mobula in the next big patch, and as i've said in another topic, the mobula will be evolving quite a bit over time.
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Awesome. I think that it well help it a lot without effecting balance.
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i hope so. its very hard for me to test the full effect of these changes on my own so i'm hoping all you guys will give me your input once they're in game and see if its really enough. i also wish i could figure out some ways to make the parkour part of the ship a bit more interesting also with out greatly effecting the intended balance. definitely things to note for future ships i'll say
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Any word on making the hull damage a bit more obvious?
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Any word on making the hull damage a bit more obvious?
thats a difficult one to address. pretty much the ships mostly balloon, team color flags can't be moved or damaged (at least in the current way things are set up) i also can't damage places players can walk around. this pretty much means i'm very very limited on what i can actually damage :/ that leaves me with the bottom half of the fins, and the smoke stacks.
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The large smoke stack might be obvious if it cracked and moved to a more horizontal position.
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what about a pilot tool that lets you gauge an enemy ships component damage?
though something like that might be a bit over powerd, maybe make it do a rough estimate or someting instead
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The large smoke stack might be obvious if it cracked and moved to a more horizontal position.
and destory the easter egg! .... i might just have to. . .
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It could spill out!
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Portions of the deck could be ripped up slightly ... ?
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I don't think anyone would complain if the collision geometry of strange places to be, i.e. the tail and fins, or even the "beaks" at the front, were not quite right when the ship was almost dead. Especially if it only meant they could "walk on air"... So the fins becoming buckled and partially destroyed as a first stage of damage should work, and maybe they could be destroyed completely or very mangled as a second stage.
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The cage thing next to the bottom guns could be bent after damage. Maybe even the little house area where the pilot is, and his little pointed markers in front of him could crumple and deform.
And what's this about an easter egg?
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And what's this about an easter egg?
Try to look inside the smoke stack sometime. :)
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I don't think placing rear ladders will help much - getting into the components housed in the wing areas is easy, getting back out via ladder is the bottleneck, just adding another ladder gives you a choice of bottlenecks, given that engies will probably be hovering around the components in the middle or gunning, it's rare that you have to spend any length of time on the turning engines. Making the jump from rear turning engine platform onto the turning engine cowling more reliable would firstly make you chose between the slower ladder or running to the rear jump point and secondly be in keeping with the hidden engineer courses that all ships have, except the current incarnation of the Mobula.
Just out of interest is is possible to make ladders across the board responsive to jumping - ie you can jump onto them to start climbing?
Also adding team colour pennants into the visual area of the captain on the Mobula would be very helpful.
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Just out of interest is is possible to make ladders across the board responsive to jumping - ie you can jump onto them to start climbing?
You already can jump at ladders to get on them. I do it all the time on things like the Junker to save a half second or so getting to the turning engines.
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You already can jump at ladders to get on them. I do it all the time on things like the Junker to save a half second or so getting to the turning engines.
I don't have a clear memory of failing to jump onto those ladders but the Pyra ladder definitely won't have any of it and neither will the Mobula - though it could be how I'm trying to do it. I'll sandbox this later and check.
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You already can jump at ladders to get on them. I do it all the time on things like the Junker to save a half second or so getting to the turning engines.
I don't have a clear memory of failing to jump onto those ladders but the Pyra ladder definitely won't have any of it and neither will the Mobula - though it could be how I'm trying to do it. I'll sandbox this later and check.
I sometimes have problems jumping to the lower guns on a mobula because the ladders are like magnets, snapping me out of the air. Kinda funny to me that you have the opposite experience.
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I sometimes have problems jumping to the lower guns on a mobula because the ladders are like magnets, snapping me out of the air. Kinda funny to me that you have the opposite experience.
jumping down is one thing, jumping to climb up is another, though again it could be where I'm trying to jump from is the issue.
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in regards to the damaged states of the ship, things like bending fences is fine and dandy except it doesn't really help your enemy (wait what. . ). i mean other ships can't really see that small detail changing so it doesn't really help to much from a gameplay perspective. (though i'll probably bend some fences regardless) I'm also curious, if you guys had the choice which would you rather prefer, not being able to walk on the front "rams" so i could destroy them for the damage states, or be able to walk on them and be "floating" if i damage them during the damage states. i tend to feel everyone more or less likes some kind of freedom of being able to get to places on ships that don't necessarily have a purpose for the fun of it, but what do i know :P
as far as ladders go, once the back ladders go in, tell me if you start experiencing problems accidentally snapping to ladders. i ended up expanding the back "balconys" a bit to avoid that being an issue. as far as front ladders go i dont think i can possibly win with them. initially there was complaints of it being to hard to get onto the ladders >>; its some crazy balancing act i have to do to make sure its easy to get on but not TO easy. oddly enough, for those with ladder problems is there a side on the mobula which you experience it more?
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the only problem iv had with the ladders is trying to spot the bloody things, and with the rams can you make it so you can walk on them as long as they arnt damaged? if not then not being abel to walk on them would be fine as a compramise for having more obvious damage indicators
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i actually brightened the ladders and made them way more obvious (maybe. . to obvious) part of the amazing mobula ladder patch coming up >>
and sadly with damage states i can't actually change the collision between damage states, its one collision mesh to suit them all which limits things alot.
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I would much rather do some floating to the tune of "My Heart Will Go On" than not at all.
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I sometimes have problems jumping to the lower guns on a mobula because the ladders are like magnets, snapping me out of the air. Kinda funny to me that you have the opposite experience.
it could be where I'm trying to jump from is the issue.
I did some testing - standing at the foot of a ladder and jumping straight on doesn't work, you don't stick. Jumping at an approx, 45 degree angle towards one of the side rails works
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Maybe have those strap things that hold the balloon below the mobula spring loose?
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I've come to really love this ship but would certainly appreciate a little more survivability. Easier to engineer would be nice, sure, but I think upping the armor would do it for me as well. Maybe
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It was designed to be a glass cannon.
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Less glass cannon and more a cannon that is a pain to keep working properly, but when it does it does it well.
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I did a lot of flying on the Mobula over the weekend. I found it to balanced just about right. Only complaint I ever really heard was, "I really wish there were ladders back here."
Now that I've found a build I like, a lot, a whole lot, like most fun I've had since I started playing the game, I really enjoy the Mobula and find it isn't nearly as bad to engineer and all that as I first thought. It's just a ship that operates a good bit differently than the other ships.
Comparisons to the Spire are not correct. The Mobula is the glass cannon the Spire maybe should have been.
I find that the only repairing to be done is right after you kill whatever is trying to kill you. Otherwise you'll just die on the way to the hull.
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I'm not saying make it into a galleon I'm saying that the engineers could benefit from having a little extra time to navigate the fairly long pathways between many of the ships components. Even the spire has that ladder for a quicker route between the hull and the balloon. Maybe the additions of the back ladders will be enough or maybe not. I won't know till I get to play the changes
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I tested out the new Mobula on the preview build - the back ladders are in and the geometry in the back also allows for jumping from the lower section up (I couldn't get it quite right, but I only tried for a minute). It makes doing an engine loop possible (still a bit slow), but doesn't change gun->hull->gun time at all. You could do a hull->engine,engine,engine->balloon run now, but the hull->balloon time is still rough. Better I think to have double engineers. The AI still has great difficulty.
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I tested out the new Mobula on the preview build - the back ladders are in and the geometry in the back also allows for jumping from the lower section up (I couldn't get it quite right, but I only tried for a minute). It makes doing an engine loop possible (still a bit slow), but doesn't change gun->hull->gun time at all. You could do a hull->engine,engine,engine->balloon run now, but the hull->balloon time is still rough. Better I think to have double engineers. The AI still has great difficulty.
this is what I was saying earlier -given that the engie will mostly be either at the central wing component (hull, balloon) or the gun mount it won't speed anything up to add a second ladder it just gives you a choice of which bottleneck to use. The only thing you can do is to jump onto the ladder to save a bit of time.
I'd prefer to see an engie parkour added to the rear turning engine platform rather than a ladder.
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The ladders on the back of the ship will make it possible for one engineer to repair or buff all 3 engines.
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Ladders at the back engines were the first thing that came to my mind. You can jump down the backside, but then why cant you get back up without running through a hallway? I like the way this changes conventional ship manning. Team coordination and communication are key to success in any boat in the sky, but with the Mobula its requisite for SURVIVAL.
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Team coordination and communication are key to success in any boat in the sky, but with the Mobula its requisite for SURVIVAL.
i like the way that sounds :P the mobula was always planned to need two engineers taking command of either side of the ship working together more or less, while controlling the balance of power so to speak between repair and firepower. its just a matter of ironing out things to make this concept work as well as possible with out driving people away. with that said, the only thing we wouldn't do is bridge the two inner rooms together. that would ultimately make things faaaarr two easy.
at first i wasn't sure how much the back ladders would change things up, but it does ease alot of pain of getting between engines. going to take the evolution of the mobula step by step right now. i always find players find ways to make things work where you least expect it if you give them time to, even if it means players having to change up there normal builds/routines to do so
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Any considerations for more ways up to the top gun?
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Any considerations for more ways up to the top gun?
Aside from the secret jump technique from the helm?
By the way will muse leave that in for the next patch?
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Any considerations for more ways up to the top gun?
Aside from the secret jump technique from the helm?
By the way will muse leave that in for the next patch?
The secret jump technique is one of the reasons I actually like the Mobula, it allows the pilot to have a certain degree of direct control over the firing patterns, which, in public matches, can be incredibly helpful.
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secret jump technique. . what secret jump technique. . theres no secret jump technique. . no there isn't. . not one bit. . . .
(but seriously. . . i'm asking for a simple fix i can apply, but theres so many things going on its been pushed back. . )
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I hope this non extant technique stays viable for the immediate future. I certainly don't use it to fire flares at the most tactically appropriate times. Nor do I refer to the middle gun as the "Captain's gun" due to this technique, which doesn't exist. I also do my best not to spread lies and rumors about this technique to any new players I encounter. I certainly wouldn't want to be held responsible for disseminating obviously false information.
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I've tried the rear ladders and you can climb up them more quickly than the front one due to the clearance you've got for jumping onto them, but it's still slower than the times when you can manage to get on top of the raised ledge next to the ladder.
The mobula is the only ship where engineers have to follow the most obvious route, with the exception of jumping into the wing area, back or front.
The Goldfish has fast access from balloon to hull or turning engines, the Pyramidion has fast access to the hull from the balloon and a fast way to get to the turning engines from the rear engine mezzanine ....
I mean I could go on but it'd just be repetition.
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The Pyramidion doesn't benefit from having quick travel from balloon to hull. It benefits from having a gungineer (who happens to be positioned near the balloon) with quick access to the hull. Same goes for the Mobula. If you have a main engi and a left gungineer then you get the same benefit.
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The Pyramidion doesn't benefit from having quick travel from balloon to hull. It benefits from having a gungineer (who happens to be positioned near the balloon) with quick access to the hull. Same goes for the Mobula. If you have a main engi and a left gungineer then you get the same benefit.
I think you saw the words hull and balloon and read that as a request for a portal between the hull and balloon in the mobula.
I'm not.
I'm asking for using an existing geometry, because
-given that the engie will mostly be either at the central wing component (hull, balloon) or the gun mount it won't speed anything up to add a second ladder it just gives you a choice of which bottleneck to use.
I'm asking for this because it will give a choice of access to the drive engine and wing top area, as do the ladders, also because the design of most other ships in this game have routes players can take which are not initially apparent, but are quicker once you know them.
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Sorry for misreading that. I guess I just got fed up with all the people asking for a tunnel and didn't think straight.
Finding different routes has always been my favourite part of GoIO. I searched the ship as soon as it appeared on the dev app and found very little, so I fully agree with you.
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What if we have a man hole cover over the balloon and hull so a engineer can hope on down from the mid deck?
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What if we have a man hole cover over the balloon and hull so a engineer can hope on down from the mid deck?
Perhaps with ladders leading back up... still a PITA to get to both balloon and hull, but possibly able to do a round trip within a mallet cooldown.
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It really, really doesn't need a quicker route between the two. The main engineer on the Pyramidion never goes up the balloon, and I don't see anybody complaining there.
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It doesn't need it but having more parkour on this ship would be nice.
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Right, sure. But some sort of hallway in between them (or the manhole or whatever) is hardly parkour, nor is it useful.
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If only wall jumps were a thing...
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. . . man if wall jumps where a thing. . .
anyway , did a few updates to the ship last time i got a chance, that will probably be the last change until when ever the next big patch is after this upcoming one. the secret technique that doesn't exist still doesn't exist. . . added more damage between the two damage states in hopes its more noticeable, but i feel i still can push it more. fixed some ladder stuff. annnddd also fixed some awkward collisions here and there like at the railing around the back side engines. . . if anyones ever tried jumping on that railing for what ever reason you'd probably already see it was a bit weird and glitchy. not that you have any reason to jump on railing. . .
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not that you have any reason to jump on railing. . .
ah ha! :)
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not that you have any reason to jump on railing. . .
ah ha! :)
I always found that railing really annoying. Good to know it's been fixed.
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not that you have any reason to jump on railing. . .
ah ha! :)
I always found that railing really annoying. Good to know it's been fixed.
in more ways than one - LordFunPants I salute you sir!
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Yeah, the new engine route is pretty nice.
Now I'm just a little annoyed that the ship's hull was boosted without being recorded in the patch notes...
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I think the notes are older then the end-result of the patch. Apparently lesmok wasn't changed, so, who knows!
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Btw Sunderland (and anyone else who was wondering), the Mobula has always had 600 armor and 700 health since it's gone live. It was just that the spreadsheet was wrong. No buff to Mobula.
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Yep, I know. I saw the other thread.
So that's pretty interesting... The ships was always more durable than we thought...