Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Malarosa Agresti on May 05, 2013, 11:46:15 am
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The Echidna and the Scylla have some significant overlap in terms of their damage type, with the trade off seeming to be greater consistenty / accuracy with the former, vs. potential dps and obscuring smoke with the latter. I've messed around with both (usually paired with the Whirlwind for dealing with Armor), and I'm curious to see if there is a consensus on which is the superior weapon.
The Echidna IMO was the superior weapon prior to this patch, when the Scylla didn't really have a very noticeable trail so it was very hard to place your shots. Now that the Scylla can actually hit something outside the hands of an elite gunner, I've taken to using it some with decent results. I wish I had the actual damage numbers, but the wiki seems kinda out of date.
Thoughts?
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These damage numbers should be up to date
http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/
The mortar is definitely more viable now. I should try the rockets again in this patch, but I feel like it might be outclassed by the Artemis this patch.
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They each have their ups and downs.
Mortar
-Four times the clip size
-Higher fire rate
-Higher DPS as a result
-Bigger AoE
Flak
-More damage per shot (126 explosive vs. 80 explosive)
-Shorter reload (5 seconds vs. 7 seconds)
-Extra 8° of arc
-Much less drop
And Queso, the carousel is definitely useless now. The Artemis is just so, so much better at disabling.
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I can't hit with the mortar, but I feel like if I were playing at a top-level cogs player it might be better. Although as awkim says, it's not about cogs, it's about the normal play. I won't put a mortar on my ship because any randomer ever can't hit with it.
I have a hard time seeing the projectiles from a mortar. Make them more visible and I might use it.
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In my opinion neither is superior overall, but rather each serve a niche function:
It's sort of like choosing between an assault rifle or a sub machine gun.
The Echidna is the precision mid range weapon; if you're fighting from longer ranges or are more concerned with accurate aiming within a precise time window than overall dps than this is the weapon to choose. A good example of when this might be true is when you fight a Junker with a Pyra. You may not want to get close range and you only need a small amount of well timed shots for the kill making the Echidna the better choice in many cases.
The Scylla is all about close range high dps destruction; due to the large amount of shots, aim and timing are less important. Often the gunner just needs a rough idea of when to time the kill shots and can just start lobbing projectiles in, helping to break the armor and finishing the kill when the armor is down all before reloading. Though a good gunner can hit at a decent range this gun really shines close up. I prefer this gun when fighting close range against targets with high permahull, especially if there are weapons on my team capable of destroying balloons thus turning the enemy ship into a giant hit box. A good example of when I might use this is on one side of a Junker when facing a Galleon; if the Junker is fortunate enough to close into range, the Scylla's massive damage output will quickly put down even a ship like the Galleon and quite easily due to the large hitbox to aim at.
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And Queso, the carousel is definitely useless now. The Artemis is just so, so much better at disabling.
The Carousel was never meant to disable via traditional means. It has no Shatter. Although it does cause fires.
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What's this Cogs I keep hearing about? Haven't picked up that bit of nomenclature yet.
I've ended up preferring the Scylla myself, but both my usual crew as well as most pubbies tend to prefer the Echidna, so I have ended up rolling with that. Sadly, given how underused the Scylla is at the moment.
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What's this Cogs I keep hearing about? Haven't picked up that bit of nomenclature yet.
Cogs is the weekly Guns of Icarus league. You can read up on it in Community Events.
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And Queso, the carousel is definitely useless now. The Artemis is just so, so much better at disabling.
The Carousel was never meant to disable via traditional means. It has no Shatter. Although it does cause fires.
The Carousel is a hybrid weapon in all respects. It's got a long range yet a wide firing arc, so it's good at all ranges. It deals Explosive DPS with an inherent Incendiary chance, so it's a hybrid lethal+utility weapon. The problem being, it's not good enough at either role to be worth choosing, you might as well specialize or just throw on an Artemis which deals healthy explosive DPS anyways.
Also, the website claims the Rocket Carousel has an AoE Radius of 14. Yet recent patch notes claim the AoE was reduced "to 3 from 8." What's the actual AoE?
And a general question: do Incendiary rounds apply a chance to start a fire on direct damage only, or both AoE and direct? The latter would imply the possibility of a maximum of two charges per shot if both damage types procced the 10%.
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As far as I remember in one of the release notes it was noted that allies fire on direct only.
The latest patch notes concerning any particular weapon are correct in this caste Banshee AoE is 3 (banshee was so op wit that 8m aoe).
As for Mortar/Flak discussion I personaly Mortar is op the same way it's bigger brother is op ^^
Seriously: For Koth and CK maps Mortar is preferable, since both ships have to be near the point to contest/block capture. On DM matches Flak is better, since it is easier to hit with at medium range.
PS: dont rely on the Weapons page for Theory Crafting - it's outdated
EDIT: I know it's more damage per shot, but is charged really worth it on Echidna, considering you only get 3 shots at 125%, making it less dmage per clip than heavy (unless they have more than 1 engi camping the hull you can normaly get at least 4 chots with heavy clip in)?
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I personally run mortar on my Junker, simply too easy to get it within good range against the "heavy" ships used to brawling like pyramidions and galleons. There is certainly a drawback against lighter and more maneuverable ships and its a good way to have a bad time against a decent squid.
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I have always preferred the Echidna for versatility. The two requirements for success seem to be that it's paired with a gat, and that heavy is loaded for range. With the Scylla, your window of work is smaller, especially on the Pyramidion where the nose cone can block the arcing trajectory. You basically become a ram Pyramidion with it on there, with no permahull damaging capability at range. I might try it with a gat combo on a Squid, but I have a feeling that will be too squirrely.
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Well with Lesmok loaded and a Pafa gunner you'd be surprised the lethal range of a mortar pyra.
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Well with Lesmok loaded and a Pafa gunner you'd be surprised the lethal range of a mortar pyra.
Cute.
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Scylla is amazing with burst rounds! Or incendiary.. because of the extra rounds more chance of fire etc. Just get nice and close for max effect >:)
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Well with Lesmok loaded and a Pafa gunner you'd be surprised the lethal range of a mortar pyra.
This, so much this. Gorath = walking mortar nuke.
Also the mortar is definitely a weapon that requires a comfort level between gunner and captain. What I mean by that is, the gunner has to know what the captain is doing. I wont randomly jerk left or right or reverse or change speed and leave him with no shots. There is a trust level between captain and gunner with the mortar that is completely absent with the flak. Maybe not completely absent but ...
@ Machiavelliest The mortar is a master at firing down, not up, so the cap has to keep that in mind.
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@Ofiach you are so right about the firing down. But if your within spitting distance it won't matter ;)
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scylla vs galleons.
Way I do it:
ambush and ram the galleon, then sine up behind hind or on his sniper side. front side of a galleon is hard to stay on, but most players cant react to behind or sides. if you go on the sniper side too, chances are the only thred there will be the mercury, but if he wants to use his hull engie on the merc, then he will die faster anyway.
if he tries to turn, just follow him around, the scylla has a large clip so your gunner can basicly just keep pressing the trigger.
now when the hull of the galleon is down, we all know its hell for the hull engineer when he gets hit by 5 mortars in a row, often if charged is used, results in instant death without the need for reload.
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It is worth noting that the Scylla has a smaller lateral field of fire then the Echidna. So while it is possible to get a Gat/Flack/Gat trifecta on a pyramidion, it is impossible to do the same with a mortar. It is mostly for this reason I don't change out my flack to a mortar.
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A really good Scylla gunner doesn't need a second gat. Load in burst and use the first 10 shots to assist the armor break, finish with the remaining rounds for a brutally fast kill.
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But the downstairs engineer doesn't get to share in the glory, and the pilot doesn't get to hear the sound of two gats shooting at once. Besides good Scylla gunners are few and far between, I will keep my Pyra as idiot proof as possible.
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It is worth noting that the Scylla has a smaller lateral field of fire then the Echidna. So while it is possible to get a Gat/Flack/Gat trifecta on a pyramidion, it is impossible to do the same with a mortar. It is mostly for this reason I don't change out my flack to a mortar.
Actually, I'm fairly certain this is false. I'll have to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure the Mortar has a superior turning arc than the Flak, while it has an inferior turning rate.
This is somewhat offset by the Mortar's inferior projectile speed, which means you need to lead a target more to hit it, so it needs the extra turning arc.
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It does need more turning arc but sadly it has less.
There was a really good thread Hamster had started about increasing the turning arc of the mortar to give the Squid a buff.
I'm not sure of the overall game consequences this would have since it would help out other ships like the Junker as well but it would undoubtedly be an incredible boost to the squid.
Currently the squid can bifecta the mortar and gat but it is pretty difficult and too inconsistent for a competitive match. Really powerful though when you can nail it and hold in arc.
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Yah I think that neither are really superior. Currently I am piloting a Junker. And the two main loadouts so far that I have used are Carronade/Scylla and Gat/Echidna. Each of them are good, Scylla is really good for up close and personal damage. When going against light/med ships this is a great loadout because it's unrelenting and doesn't allow them to escape easily. The Scyllla once you get used to the arc, is a dps machine.
Now when going up against heavy ships or hwacha heavy ships, the gat/echidna loadout is better. When you need to keep a little distance to keep the heavy weapons from ruining your day, the echidna is good for dealing heavy damage while being able to approach from odd angles and distances. The only downside being if you get rammed or hwacha rammed :( you will be wishing you had your Scylla.
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My opinion right now is that in the hands of a gunner who can use it, the mortar is definitely superior. It does more damage, and the larger clip size means that less timing is required, allowing the mortar to assist in the armour break.
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My opinion right now is that in the hands of a gunner who can use it, the mortar is definitely superior. It does more damage, and the larger clip size means that less timing is required, allowing the mortar to assist in the armour break.
Watching Gorath and AwildGodzilla shoot the mortar is a thing of deadly beauty isn't it?
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My opinion right now is that in the hands of a gunner who can use it, the mortar is definitely superior. It does more damage, and the larger clip size means that less timing is required, allowing the mortar to assist in the armour break.
Watching Gorath and AwildGodzilla shoot the mortar is a thing of deadly beauty isn't it?
And being on the receiving end is one of the worst feelings you can have.