Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: MightyKeb on April 12, 2015, 03:24:22 am
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I think we all agree that Harpoon doesnt have a particular place nor a demand for a place in the list of viable weapons. It gains you speed alright, but it should also be a fairly good tool for chasing. Tested that out yesterday and found that even something with such a small mass as squid could fly away the harpoon until it detached. I think the main problem with harpoon is how inconsistent it is. It's shot spread is affected by ship movement as if you're Indiana Jones running from a collapsing cave and thus is hard to aim, and very unforgiving when you miss thanks to the reload time. While guns with much shorter reloads can be muuuch more effective than harpoon.
Overall, it's both hard to pick up and master, compared to something like Minotaur, which also revolves around controlling airships' movement but does a much better job and is easier to use. The current harpoon definitely needs some kind of buff or else it'll be best at what it does now: An achievement grinding tool.
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The only viable place for a harpoon in a non joke build is on the back of a galleon. But that's about it. It needs some kind of a buff, that's for sure.
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The only viable place for a harpoon in a non joke build is on the back of a galleon. But that's about it. It needs some kind of a buff, that's for sure.
Yeah, and somewhat of a viability for the galleon's side aswell. Some basic ideas from me is to make the shot go straighter-ish (much less affected by ship movement) and buff the damage to just around the current lochnagar for increased effect.
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back of a squid is also a serious harpoon placement
It is bad on the side of a galleon
imho it could use a slight damage buff/increase in projectile speed - the gun is harder to shoot than its utility deserves
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It also needs an increase in pull force, massively. Me and Keb tested it, and the Squid slowed down MAYBE enough for my Pyra to get into arc, but not really. Needs an increase to pulling force, and maybe an immediate reduction in speed for the enemy.
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speak for yourself.
AI uses it all the time to counter mino and munkers.
destroyed my engines? Have a moonshine speed ram anyway BECAUSE POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
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how about much longer duration and controllable (right click) pulling, except that if the operator leaves the weapon the rope is severed? It could become an effective controller, still hard and unforgiving to shoot.
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how about much longer duration and controllable (right click) pulling, except that if the operator leaves the weapon the rope is severed? It could become an effective controller, still hard and unforgiving to shoot.
And yet AI consistently hit with it because of the maaaaaagic of lesmok (and bucket loads of arc training with hades and lumberjack).
Long range poon. so hilarious.
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Its not about a buff, but rather a fix. Simply how the harpoon works, works also against you. Which is why the harpoon gets flak.
Currently, you can use harpoon as a reverse minotaur where you pull an enemys arcs away from an ally. But its hard to hit with, and will also fudge you up.
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Its not about a buff, but rather a fix. Simply how the harpoon works, works also against you. Which is why the harpoon gets flak.
Currently, you can use harpoon as a reverse minotaur where you pull an enemys arcs away from an ally. But its hard to hit with, and will also fudge you up.
Meanwhile, you can just load mino on your ship, click a few times at the side of a pyra and voila! Raycast magic.
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Perhaps a buff that revolves around how your ship is less affected, but the enemy is more affected?
I once considered on a hwacha goldfish to have a harpoon on the left side, in multi tasking enemy disabilities. It actualy worked when we hit. One guy fully disabled, the other guy is spending 10 or more seconds steadying while our ally galleon slowly comes in. Problem? I was at that pulled enemy since pyras are much heavier than goldfishes.
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If the harpoon actually worked the way it should, then we'd have to be worried about boarding! You know Muse doesn't want that!
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One of the main issues with the harpoon is the massively broken mass. The pyra is the second smallest ship in the game, yet is one of the heaviest. Reason? To make it ram better... which has now been nerfed so ramming is a real gamble. Mass is one of the main factors in how the harpoon works.
The second issue is the velocity. An increase in speed and reduction of drop was being tested, but fell by the wayside somewhere.
The third issue is that even when connected, it does so little damage to anything, and rarely hits exactly where you need to get the effect you desire.
The last issue is the painfully slow reload.
I'll poke the devs about testing a harpoon with higher velocity, lower drop, more damage (especially to balloon), the ability to hook balloon as well as hull, severely reduced range and a slightly lower reload speed.
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I think it needs a full on rework not just fiddling with numbers.
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I won't argue with that. I t has never worked the way it should. I am still in favor of just removing it completely until the physics can be fixed. But, since I don't see that happening, fiddling with the numbers is the best we are going to get.
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Why don't we just turn it into an actual gun then? Increase damage decrease cooldown, and just make the physics aspect of it quick and weak, that way you could pair it with a mortor or something so the harpoon could break the armour and slow an enemy ship from running away.
That is until a better physics system could be built for the harpoon to turn it into a useful utility weapon.
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just get good at using the physics it currently has... and when the update comes. It becomes even more useful.
Also that feel when crazy gunner fires inci poon to lob over building in rumble and hit a ship on the other side.
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just get good at using the physics it currently has... and when the update comes. It becomes even more useful.
Also that feel when crazy gunner fires inci poon to lob over building in rumble and hit a ship on the other side.
The physics are almost completely broken. There's nothing to get used to, it just doesn't work
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just get good at using the physics it currently has... and when the update comes. It becomes even more useful.
Also that feel when crazy gunner fires inci poon to lob over building in rumble and hit a ship on the other side.
The physics are almost completely broken. There's nothing to get used to, it just doesn't work
Alright, this proves my theory Ceresbane thinks of everything good as bad and bad as good.
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just get good at using the physics it currently has... and when the update comes. It becomes even more useful.
Also that feel when crazy gunner fires inci poon to lob over building in rumble and hit a ship on the other side.
The physics are almost completely broken. There's nothing to get used to, it just doesn't work
And I wonder why... My pyra build consistent kills with that poon...
If you put it on the top left. It either leads the enemy ship into the side guns or into the ram.
AND it can be controlled with kero or moonshine. Kero reverse to drag the target to you (good for nullifying any attempts at moonshine escape). Fly forward to force ship into side guns.
Pretty much dumbing it down as there are lil subtle adjustments required as many other factors need to be considered. Like where on the hull does the poon land, what direction the ship is facing and what direction it is trying to move.
But generally speaking the behaviour is consistent. I don't care if you're too dumb to see a very obvious pattern. I know what I know and what I have consistently practiced with my crew.
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I apologize. I forgot you were an expert in gun mechanics
I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy
doing this will result in heavyclip light carronade being OP too. Then you'd have to nerf that as well.
Then lumberjack is sure to follow.
If you said all 3 in the first place I would have taken this idea much more seriously, as it showed you actually gave proper thought about it.
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I apologize. I forgot you were an expert in gun mechanics
I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy
doing this will result in heavyclip light carronade being OP too. Then you'd have to nerf that as well.
Then lumberjack is sure to follow.
If you said all 3 in the first place I would have taken this idea much more seriously, as it showed you actually gave proper thought about it.
That just proves your own lack of forethought. Nice foot shooting.
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I apologize. I forgot you were an expert in gun mechanics
I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy
doing this will result in heavyclip light carronade being OP too. Then you'd have to nerf that as well.
Then lumberjack is sure to follow.
If you said all 3 in the first place I would have taken this idea much more seriously, as it showed you actually gave proper thought about it.
That just proves your own lack of forethought. Nice foot shooting.
Damage
Modifiers
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how about much longer duration and controllable (right click) pulling, except that if the operator leaves the weapon the rope is severed? It could become an effective controller, still hard and unforgiving to shoot.
I am very in favor of this. The harpoon's current duration is way too short to do anything useful with it. A manual release and winch in would be fantastic. We used to do silly things with the harpoon back when they physics treated the rope like a slingshot. I miss those days.
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If you had a manual pull on right click, and a release/start reload on left click, I think it could work with the current physics. As an estimate, give it 10 seconds of pull total per shot, in 5 second max intervals (so two pulls per shot if held). On each pull, the physics reset. Harpoon breaks after 30 seconds. Give it a short reload of 4 seconds. This is because it does not start reloading until you break the rope.
You could leave the harpoon attached, and just give a little pull once in a while for disruption. Or you could break the harpoon right away and start your reload if you are going for damage.
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but at the same time you need someone at the harpoon at all time once attached, leaving the position would reset the weapon.
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but at the same time you need someone at the harpoon at all time once attached, leaving the position would reset the weapon.
That's always a good thing. Guns that encourage constant focus on the said gun encourage the crewmen to stay on it and limit their repair abilities, which is where gunner shines as he brings more optimal results to the table. Things like a Pyra's gatling, mines and in some cases, flamers encourage the crewmembers to use the gun for a maximum amount of time to reach peak efficiency.
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Realistically, that does not make much sense. If the gun is attached to the ship, there is no reason that the harpoon would become unhooked when someone left it. I think the 30 second break would work fine.
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Realistically, that does not make much sense. If the gun is attached to the ship, there is no reason that the harpoon would become unhooked when someone left it. I think the 30 second break would work fine.
when you catch a fish and have to reel to the boat, do you leave the fishing pole and do something else?
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Realistically, that does not make much sense. If the gun is attached to the ship, there is no reason that the harpoon would become unhooked when someone left it. I think the 30 second break would work fine.
when you catch a fish and have to reel to the boat, do you leave the fishing pole and do something else?
Also, the gun would swing wildly on it's mount.
Which would hurt.
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When you are using a giant harpoon to fish,and that harpoon is bolted to the ship, yes, you can leave it. As far as it swinging wildly, I doubt it. Once the line is taught there will be little give. Your ship will be pulled, or pull theirs, and the gun may swing if they decide to change direction, but for the most part the strain will be on the line and the bolts. Maybe there can be a bit of damage penalty for leaving the gun in attended, but I would expect it to be reinforced, since the builders specifically planned for it to be attached to enemy ships.
Also, yes, to reel someone in, you would need to be on the gun, but once the line is hooked on the enemy you can leave it. If you do not plan on reeling them in there is no reason to be on that gun anymore. This would allow for a deadly pursuit, depending on which ship you are flying. I imagine most dangerous would be a galleon, with the light gun on the side as a harpoon. Top engie can fire harpoon, then get back to repairs, allowing the bottom engie and gunner to open up with heavy weapons.
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Top engie can fire harpoon, then get back to repairs, allowing the bottom engie and gunner to open up with heavy weapons.
and this is exactly why the harpoon need to "lock down" both the enemy ship and a crew member of the firing one. In your scenario the harpoon becomes an un-counter-able meta, once you take it for 30 seconds (2 hwacha) you will be at the mercy of the enemy ship with no possible escape and your destruction assured. That is not fun.
but if you make it snap once the operator leaves the gun, then it is a gamble for both sides of the fray.
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True, but that is the worst case scenario. On basically any other ship the harpoon will have one light gun to support, if that. It could also be shortened to something like a fifteen second break time, so that the enemy is not held helpless for quite so long. Then again, all of my arguments are from the point of realism, so they can easily be ignored, in favor of making the game more fun.
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If there was no one on the harpoon after it hooked, it would not do anything. It would be free spinning. It would only pull if someone was actively pressing the winch button.
If you hit a target in the wrong place, this would give you the option of disengaging right away instead of the instant pull the would bring a Galleon broadside into your face, or, leave attached and wait to see if it will come in useful in the next 30 seconds.