Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Arturo Sanchez on February 23, 2015, 04:12:18 pm
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Since my return to guns last year at around october I noticed AI were super nerfed to what they were before. This nerf being this very obviously felt as well as seen delay on AI actually using their tools.
But even then the AI knew to prioritise key parts like engines over guns.
Now though I feel they've been nerfed even more as priorities on parts has been changed around. I see engines on fire not ever getting put out.
I see broken engines while AI fixes broken guns.
Add in the nerf of this delay they've been given and they play like novices. AI were my saving grace of a terrible crew. Why have you taken that away from me?
I've also noticed AI prioritising permahull guns over hull breaker guns as b4.
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I'm sure more people can back me up in saying that AI have always been bad. I never remember a time when they were really good, and I think you're just remembering things incorrectly
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AI has always been bad. The only patch i remember to AI behavior actually improved their pathing around a few ships.
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AI has always been terrible. I'm not sure what's convinced you that they're some how worse than they were as some previous point.
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It has happened.
The first AI to surpass the regular AI: Maximillian Jazzhand!!!
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When you are in novice, AIs seem overpowered (they are far superior to fresh engineers).
Infact, when I was in novice, I won several games on a metamidion with nothing but AIs.
But once you meet better engineers, and do some engineering yourself, it's evident that AIs are far inferior.
So, it might be your perspective that was buffed, not the AIs who were nerfed.
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Thats thing going by the old lvls
I had always played at the lvl of a lvl 5 from novice. Keep out of arc of guns, feel out reload times, position to give arc on key parts while not in arc of enemy arcs, etc.
All done albeit slugglishly as I practiced with little to no tools use. And I still seldom do as they are my emergency actions (tho with increasing exposure to high lvl play I have felt my handing being forced on their usage).
AI did their job back when I use to play. I remember very correctly that AI put out fires that existed on the ship when hull was fine. I remember my engines coming back when hull and balloon were fine. AI taught me the part priorities for crying out loud. They fixed broken parts at a specific order (I remember this clearly as I always planned around it) and rapidly used the tools to do so.
Like say all the parts just went out. They'd rush to balloon, then rush to hull, then rush to engines (turning first). Rebuild then 1 mallet hit then move on to next part.
And then go to guns after everything else is about 90%
Now? I see the same scenario where my engines are on fire and all key parts are fine. But my engine is still left on fire until it breaks and I swear they're like scared to fix it. Even though hull and balloon are 100%. wait. wtf you doing fixing that gun AI?
No! that is not the AI I very very clearly remember.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation)
See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_errors#False_memories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_errors#False_memories)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation)
See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_errors#False_memories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_errors#False_memories)
(http://www.stgeorges.co.uk/sites/default/files/blog_uploads/2012/03/winston_churchill_flick-v.jpg)
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Still rather have an AI that some players of this game...enter the level 7 engineer...stands looking at destroyed engine then speaks "hey the engine is dead!"...doesn't fix or rebuild...just stares at it, and lets you know...
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Still rather have an AI that some players of this game...enter the level 7 engineer...stands looking at destroyed engine then speaks "hey the engine is dead!"...doesn't fix or rebuild...just stares at it, and lets you know...
thats the point. the AI don't even. they do pretty much the same thing now.
Lets talk tools here. If you set AI to repair and put on kerosene, do you expect your engines to break? Well guess what they do break. While b4 you could moonshine and expect proper repairing, not indefinitely but definitely for a long time. Now? those engines are gone in seconds.
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Seems pretty redundant to me that muse would impair the AI repair and decision making abilities... If they would change anything about them to me it seems like they would only make them better - since they are a lot worse than most players in the game. Novice or not, they are, and always have been this way... But hey, that's just me.
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AI used to be really really good early on in better, at least on the guns. They had scary high accuracy at long ranges. This has obviously been adjusted.
A good number of patches ago, AI were still pretty bad, but not outright terrible. Then things changed and AI weren't updated to deal with the changes. Ammos have been adjusted and what used to be just fine for AI is now kinda sucky. AI don't seem to be capable of shooting what they should be shooting either. I've seen AI load clip after clip into the hull with carronade and shoot the gat in a weird series of short bursts, sometimes just going for the balloon. Other times they'll pump out a whole clip before they're even in range/arc of something.
I'd love to see them adjusted at some point, but at the same time that should be really low on the priority list of things to do. So 'some day' maybe. I guess I wouldn't mind that much if they stay as is.
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Something I'd like is that if there is a full clip of special ammo for the AI not to automatically reload it. Often if I'm on, say, a galleon I like to load the guns to be ready the second I need them. Then someone drops, the AI spawn in, reload any gun they get to and walk off, knowing smugly they have miffed me (especially with the hwatcha, I swear to ancestors the AI zero in on them). While I like the idea they reload in the first place, if it already has a full clip then it's just annoying. At least at a person I can threaten to throw them overboard for switching my ammo.
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Randomized ammo for AI. Cept Loch. Course then it might use one you don't want at the wrong time. But then again, it might use one you do.
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Randomized ammo for AI. Cept Loch. Course then it might use one you don't want at the wrong time. But then again, it might use one you do.
greased, lesmok, charged.
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Something I'd like is that if there is a full clip of special ammo for the AI not to automatically reload it. Often if I'm on, say, a galleon I like to load the guns to be ready the second I need them. Then someone drops, the AI spawn in, reload any gun they get to and walk off, knowing smugly they have miffed me (especially with the hwatcha, I swear to ancestors the AI zero in on them). While I like the idea they reload in the first place, if it already has a full clip then it's just annoying. At least at a person I can threaten to throw them overboard for switching my ammo.
I actually agree with this, AI should not change ammo (without reload times) if the gun os already loaded.
Though this may be a bug, if I get time I'll try and get this confirmed and reported as a bug..
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Something I'd like is that if there is a full clip of special ammo for the AI not to automatically reload it. Often if I'm on, say, a galleon I like to load the guns to be ready the second I need them. Then someone drops, the AI spawn in, reload any gun they get to and walk off, knowing smugly they have miffed me (especially with the hwatcha, I swear to ancestors the AI zero in on them). While I like the idea they reload in the first place, if it already has a full clip then it's just annoying. At least at a person I can threaten to throw them overboard for switching my ammo.
I actually agree with this, AI should not change ammo (without reload times) if the gun os already loaded.
Though this may be a bug, if I get time I'll try and get this confirmed and reported as a bug..
Maybe a bug? Are yoou implying muse put that on intentionally? Because guess what they didn't do this before. They instead used up the ammo when they got arc to shoot. Annoying but at least the ammo was used.And knowing AI, it hit.
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Not implying its not a bug, just unable to confirm they are not able to.use up ammo until I get into game and test it, but it certainly.appears that they're not emptying the clip first, but instead sitting on the gun - not shooting - ammo changed.
It is if they're actually reloading or not which may be the bug, if they're reloading, its not a bug, if they're not physically reloading the ammo, its a bug.
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Not implying its not a bug, just unable to confirm they are not able to.use up ammo until I get into game and test it, but it certainly.appears that they're not emptying the clip first, but instead sitting on the gun - not shooting - ammo changed.
It is if they're actually reloading or not which may be the bug, if they're reloading, its not a bug, if they're not physically reloading the ammo, its a bug.
AI don't hold the ammo the player has. so upon reload it goes to default. Of course it wouldnt load the ammo it doesnt have.
point is they don't SHOOT the ammo first.
I swear you don't use logic Kamo. Its a bug with a fairly specific condition (it occurs mainly on as you were, with enemy in arc but not in gun range but within AI's aggro range) but it does have a high repro rate.
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Not implying its not a bug, just unable to confirm they are not able to.use up ammo until I get into game and test it, but it certainly.appears that they're not emptying the clip first, but instead sitting on the gun - not shooting - ammo changed.
It is if they're actually reloading or not which may be the bug, if they're reloading, its not a bug, if they're not physically reloading the ammo, its a bug.
AI don't hold the ammo the player has. so upon reload it goes to default. Of course it wouldnt load the ammo it doesnt have.
point is they don't SHOOT the ammo first.
I swear you don't use logic Kamo. Its a bug with a fairly specific condition (it occurs mainly on as you were, with enemy in arc but not in gun range but within AI's aggro range) but it does have a high repro rate.
I think you are misreading something I said because what you said basically confirms what I said, in different conditions.
For example, crew loads greased to Gatling, runs to balloon to buff balloon, AI jumps onto Gatling, no enemy in agro range nor arc, crew confirms AI changed gun to heavy ammo.
I don't know if the reload animation happened or not.
Artemis, same thing except ammo changes from burst to default.
What I'm saying is I want to do a controlled test to if the ammo change to heavy/default/anyotherammoAImayuse is instant or not.
By controlled test I also mean recorded...
What you're saying is my logic is dumb because you're saying a similar thing?
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Not implying its not a bug, just unable to confirm they are not able to.use up ammo until I get into game and test it, but it certainly.appears that they're not emptying the clip first, but instead sitting on the gun - not shooting - ammo changed.
It is if they're actually reloading or not which may be the bug, if they're reloading, its not a bug, if they're not physically reloading the ammo, its a bug.
AI don't hold the ammo the player has. so upon reload it goes to default. Of course it wouldnt load the ammo it doesnt have.
point is they don't SHOOT the ammo first.
I swear you don't use logic Kamo. Its a bug with a fairly specific condition (it occurs mainly on as you were, with enemy in arc but not in gun range but within AI's aggro range) but it does have a high repro rate.
I think you are misreading something I said because what you said basically confirms what I said, in different conditions.
For example, crew loads greased to Gatling, runs to balloon to buff balloon, AI jumps onto Gatling, no enemy in agro range nor arc, crew confirms AI changed gun to heavy ammo.
I don't know if the reload animation happened or not.
Artemis, same thing except ammo changes from burst to default.
What I'm saying is I want to do a controlled test to if the ammo change to heavy/default/anyotherammoAImayuse is instant or not.
By controlled test I also mean recorded...
What you're saying is my logic is dumb because you're saying a similar thing?
AI don't have special ammo. The hell did that AI get the heavy from when AI NEVER load anything but default?
Logic by nature comes from a chain of previous thoughts and observations.
Your mentioning of AI loading special ammo is out of nowhere.
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AI load and shoot heavy on Gatling gun pre-1.4.0
I remember testing that on practice and in game.
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AI does load special ammo. I can confirm that. They seem to have a preference for heavy ammo.
While testing the minotaur gun spire build on practice mode, I've noticed that the AI puts heavy ammo to the minotaur. That was two -days ago.
So, yea, AI will load ammos into guns.
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AI load and shoot heavy on Gatling gun pre-1.4.0
I remember testing that on practice and in game.
If that were true I'd be hearing that heavy. I'd be seeing the bullets fly straighter.
I have not seen that. Guess I'll test it later when this games makes me less depressed on how bad its gotten for balance. I want my repair cycles back dammit.
But yes you wrote on your post that AI would reload the ammo that was already in it b4. It doesn't have that ammo so why would it? So not misreading on my part. Its you miswriting.
Mentioning of heavy being loaded randomly came up on your post after.
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AI load and shoot heavy on Gatling gun pre-1.4.0
I remember testing that on practice and in game.
If that were true I'd be hearing that heavy. I'd be seeing the bullets fly straighter.
I have not seen that. Guess I'll test it later when this games makes me less depressed on how bad its gotten for balance. I want my repair cycles back dammit.
But yes you wrote on your post that AI would reload the ammo that was already in it b4. It doesn't have that ammo so why would it? So not misreading on my part. Its you miswriting.
Mentioning of heavy being loaded randomly came up on your post after.
I didn't say that at all...
Something I'd like is that if there is a full clip of special ammo for the AI not to automatically reload it. Often if I'm on, say, a galleon I like to load the guns to be ready the second I need them. Then someone drops, the AI spawn in, reload any gun they get to and walk off, knowing smugly they have miffed me (especially with the hwatcha, I swear to ancestors the AI zero in on them). While I like the idea they reload in the first place, if it already has a full clip then it's just annoying. At least at a person I can threaten to throw them overboard for switching my ammo.
I actually agree with this, AI should not change ammo (without reload times) if the gun os already loaded.
Though this may be a bug, if I get time I'll try and get this confirmed and reported as a bug..
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If that were true I'd be hearing that heavy. I'd be seeing the bullets fly straighter.
I doubt you would since it is hard enough to tell from the animation itself, but also since AI tends to not consider ship movement, which means shots are going into all directions.
But AI loading special ammo types is also pretty uncommon since they always run from component to component and never stay on the same gun long enough, at least as far as I can tell.
When I set AI to attack, it shoots instantly and doesn't care about ammo types, at least when the enemy is nearby, dunno about what they do when the enemy is not right there.
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I think there is a lot of back and forth going on about it, so let me clarify my complaint. It's not that the AI loads ammo. It's the fact that its a full clip already and doesn't need to be reloaded in the first place. So it doesn't matter what the AI loads into it, it's that if a player loads ammo they want to be ready when they shoot it, they shouldn't have to worry that the AI is going to run over there and reload an already full clip on them.
I mean, I obviously don't expect a human engi to have all the same ammo I do if there are multiple guns on the ship, so I don't mind if after all the shooting it's different ammo type. What annoys me is that there are no enemy, no shooting, and therefor no reason to change my preloaded ammo to begin with (I've thrown people overboard for touching my guns in such a terrible way). The difference is that usually after I tell a human engi 'hey, please don't change my ammo if it's full' they listen. I've tried with AI (and they are terrible at conversation. I end up talking to myself and get glanced at by the remaining crew. Thankfully they don't argue, being I'm the one at the gun).
I wouldn't know if its a bug or not (I have very little knowledge of coding, I'd have to ask Alistair since he used to do that for a living. It feels like a bug, but I wouldn't know), but honestly it doesn't matter. It's simply an annoying and sometimes hampering happenstance, especially if you are a gunner with a lot of different guns that require different ammo to be ready at a moments notice.
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I think there is a lot of back and forth going on about it, so let me clarify my complaint. It's not that the AI loads ammo. It's the fact that its a full clip already and doesn't need to be reloaded in the first place. So it doesn't matter what the AI loads into it, it's that if a player loads ammo they want to be ready when they shoot it, they shouldn't have to worry that the AI is going to run over there and reload an already full clip on them.
AI gunners do load ammo in some guns. The next time they automatically reload they will load charged in hwatcha and heavy clip in gat.
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AI gunners do load ammo in some guns. The next time they automatically reload they will load charged in hwatcha and heavy clip in gat.
Charged on hwacha, heavy on gats, light and heavy carronade. That's about it.
Also the AI does load the gun physically, he doesn't just make it appear in the gun. They wont reload special ammos and or normal ammos into their preferred stuff if the enemy is already in range and arc, but will do so otherwise.