Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Spud Nick on October 23, 2014, 08:53:19 am
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I have never seen a squid win a match without using a carroande or a flamethrower. Is this a problem with the pilots or the ship it self?
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Mid - long-range squid can work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P53d9TGfwE
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I've seen a squid equipped with mercury field and flak that was quite devastating on the dunes.
It'd snipe, run, and repeat. Our pyramidions could never catch him.
But yea, squids are most effective when they get close and engage on the blind side. It's easier to stay out of the gun arc near the enemy.
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The lack of the gat/mortar or hades/flak bifecta makes it rather hard to kill something quickly for a Squid, especially since the pilot needs to turn and have a second engineer ready on the side gun immediately, who might be buffing or helping repair/rebuild other stuff.
It doesn't help either that the squid has almost non-existent armor and thus needs to be perfect in term of sneaking up on the enemy to get a minimum amount of damage while killing the enemy.
An alternitive, and more often than not a safer route to quick killing, is to disable the enemy repeatedly until the enemy dies. Carronade and flamer are without a doubt the most reliable close range disable guns.
A decently played mine Squid would probably be more effective in close range since with the quick speed the mines could be everywhere, but mines are usually not as reliable.
A longish range Squid usually loses to most prolonged battles in long range, I believe, especially if the Squid is against long range disable, but the Squids speed allows the ship to reposition rather quickly. Another problem here is that the only longish range light piercing guns are hades and mercury which both have limited horizontal arcs making it either hard or impossible to get a bifecta with the side gun, so long range killing is rarely seen from a Squid.
The problem is the ship's stats. The Squid is probably the hardest ship to fly since it relies more on the initial position of itself than most other ships do, as well as the position of it's ally.
With that I mean, if the Squids gets looked at then there is a high chance that it's armor is almost dead, which takes the main engineer away from the engines and the balloon, which decreases the Squid mobility, which is the ships strongest asset.
Also, most Squids that are not carro/flamer are a bit slow in support because they lose that instant disable power or have no quick killing potential, which often results in a 2v1 against the Squids ally, while the Squid gets ignored for the duration.
You don't see more than carro/flamer Squids, because this is probably the easiest ship in pug games because:
no coordinated enemy team
no reliable chem spraying on the enemy team
carro/flamer are rather easy to shoot even on a full speed squid
In a competitive-ish field most teams just don't try the effort on the Squid, either because it takes too much practise and they like practising what they are already good at or because they fly, or want to fly, ships that are superior to the Squid for the role they are supposed to execute (Metamidion kills quicker than a Squid, Blenderfish is a more tanky disabler than a Squid and so on).
I hope this helped in terms of answering your question.
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I think many players see the squid how they saw the goldfish a few months ago. Under powered and in need of a buff. I wonder if it's the ship that needs a change or the mindset of the pilots.
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I think many players see the squid how they saw the goldfish a few months ago. Under powered and in need of a buff. I wonder if it's the ship that needs a change or the mindset of the pilots.
Mostly I think its just the mindset of the players. Having said that I would be happy giving the squid a buff to its perma-hull.
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My standard kill squid is F:Gat S:Banshee A:Merc, but I have had the most success as a armor stripping support F:Gat S:Gat A:Artemis. Where F=Front, S=Starboard, A=Aft. Two gats will pulp armor pretty quickly and start tearing off engines and guns leaving a fat juicy target for my ally to finish. Alternately once they are stripped I can turn to finish with the rear.
I like putting a long range gun on the back of the squid to support my ally if they decide to play the sniper game. Since two of my crew will be out of action during this phase, I normally have one bring a buff kit so that the long range gun can output more damage.
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I saw some of the [PLRS] guys the other day running a Merc, Mortar squid and cleaning up with it. I guess the strategy is to come in from far off with the merc and then put the side on them. It was super badass, but I can't get it to work my self.My pal SlicedAndDiced had it going a few times, but it's pretty difficult, and seems way to impractical for any sort of competitive match
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The problem the squid faces is it's very easily countered and over powered. If it can't disable you by the time you get your gun arcs on it, then it's in trouble. The other problem is that it's skill requirement is very high for the entire crew not just the pilot. Even if you use hit and run tactics, the chances of your ally also making it out are fairly slim. Basically put, name something the squid can do that another ship can't do better that will contribute positively to winning? :S
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Basically put, name something the squid can do that another ship can't do better that will contribute positively to winning? :S
Bait enemies quickly to distract them and allow your ally to ambush kill them while providing support.
Sneak up on an enemies blind side - stay in the blind side - and lock them down.
Block points in CP by zerg rushing.
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I've been having a lot of luck with banshee front, mine side as of late. Albeit not it excessively competitive lobbies.
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Basically put, name something the squid can do that another ship can't do better that will contribute positively to winning? :S
Bait enemies quickly to distract them and allow your ally to ambush kill them while providing support.
Sneak up on an enemies blind side - stay in the blind side - and lock them down.
Block points in CP by zerg rushing.
Baiting is a gamble and doesn't always necessarily work. (Besides isn't there an old rule, don't chase the squid? :P )
Blind sides somewhat negated by phoenix claw, and teamwork. (Formation flying kills squids)
Blocking points the squid can do very well... Shame its a minority game type. :/
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I've been having a lot of luck with banshee front, mine side as of late. Albeit not it excessively competitive lobbies.
Can confirm that this build is pretty effective with a skilled crew, but as Z said, I haven't been on it in exclusively high-level/competitive lobbies. With a gunner on the side mines it's kind of like flying a faster, more maneuverable single-sided munker.
That said, I do think the ship is in need of some sort of a buff. There is a reason you don't see them in competitive play. I don't know what the solution is. I think one of its disadvantages is that while it is fast and maneuverable, the engines are vulnerable due to being difficult to repair. The rear port engine in particular often gets neglected, and running to fix it leaves other components vulnerable because you're so far away from them. Perhaps merely moving the rear engines closer would help, or having a ramp between them.
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I don't think we need another ship for competitive play. I think we need a ship that a high level crew can handicap themselves with when facing a lower level lobby.
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I don't think we need another ship for competitive play. I think we need a ship that a high level crew can handicap themselves with when facing a lower level lobby.
Thanks for reminding me of that. I will fly the Tug of War Mobula more often.
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I don't think we need another ship for competitive play. I think we need a ship that a high level crew can handicap themselves with when facing a lower level lobby.
I think it's already pretty easy for high-level players to handicap themselves by flying a challenging/not-very-effective build on any given ship.... I think all ships should have the potential to be equally viable.
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I think many players see the squid how they saw the goldfish a few months ago. Under powered and in need of a buff. I wonder if it's the ship that needs a change or the mindset of the pilots.
Goldfish has the heavy carronade. That aint a mindset thing.
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Mine squid. Front/side mines. Back banshee or artemis. Artemis for a little disable when needed, and then when you're close, use the mines.
(I'm an excessively horrible person, I use mines so much.)
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Squid is already an amazing CP ship. The reason you don't see it in competitive is because nobody has ever tried to do a CP tournament yet. If people ever play CP competitively, you will see more Squids.
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Squid is simply bad, be it with carro/flame or whatever else.
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Squid is already an amazing CP ship. The reason you don't see it in competitive is because nobody has ever tried to do a CP tournament yet. If people ever play CP competitively, you will see more Squids.
Ahem...
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4879.0.html
Course thats more mixed now but the first event was all CP.
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Phoenix claw. What good is a fast/maneuverable boat when even a pig like the pyra can keep pace with a circling opponent?
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Phoenix claw. What good is a fast/maneuverable boat when even a pig like the pyra can keep pace with a circling opponent?
^ Exactly. The Squid is not very good because it's one advantage, speed, is nullified by phoenix claw.
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Squid is a functional ship, although it takes more effort to get things working right. We managed to pull one off in the last SCS, although it was extremely sloppy. I've been out of practice for a while, didn't bring the right tools, didn't have the time to get the ship or crew set up right. Took us a while to become even moderately effective in that match. Under different conditions we can get the squid working even better.
Depending on how it's built, it makes a good distraction ship that can severely punish ships if and when they start ignoring it. Generally nimble enough to avoid being killed easily as well. Phoenix claw on other ships doesn't really negate it's effectiveness either. As a squid pilot, one of your biggest strengths is having an easily accessible forward and rear facing gun. So instead of strafing around a ship, just pass under or over them and use the tail gun. If they try to repeat the process, do it again in reverse. Once a squid gets in close, it can be extremely hard to get them off of you. (Some ships have an easier time of course, like the junker)
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Also squid is very demanding for all the engineers (because nobody runs a squid with a gunner....).
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Also squid is very demanding for all the engineers (because nobody runs a squid with a gunner....).
It is very demanding, but if it is that demanding that no gunner would get to shoot then no engineer would get to shoot either.
On a squid you can even have a gunner with "optimal" ammo types for both front and back gun, which could make Thomas suggested strategy easier since only one person has to get on a different gun, has the right ammo for it and the engineers wouldn't have to switch positions all the time.
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I'm still struggling to get my "favourite ship" to be squid
and my "most used tools" to be heatsink, lochnagar, and incendiary"
as gunner.
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So does anyone fly squid as your primary ship?
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I like to fly the squid a lot, but it can be extremely exhausting for a crew and captain. You need to have everyone briefed on what they'll be doing and when, and things change much more rapidly than they do on other ships. Your crew needs to be able to go with the flow and not get tunnel vision, and since the squid capitalizes on mobility, the captain has to be very very aware of their surroundings and other ship positions, lest they run into things or get trapped.
Overall it's mostly difficult not because of it's softness, but because of all the component locations. Everything is so spread out that you're entire crew has to be ready and willing to be mobile. Making it harder to keep things buffed and chem sprayed, let alone doing well for repairs when things go bad or the captain really likes their tools.
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On a squid you need to have extremely good parkour skills and a stable connection so you don't fall off the ship while doing the engine circuit. It's fun, but very demanding/stressful.
There are some videos of the sort of trick jumps required, but the goal should be whacking all 4 engines and balloon within roughly 8-10 seconds of each other. That's the baseline for engineering on a squid and not many people can do it. I certainly can't.
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The squid is def a unique ship from the others. But it is missing something.
I am gonna go ahead and suggest this YETT AGAIN and people will again agree.
The squid is fast in every direction, except for going up and down. The only ship that goes faster than the squid vertically is the Mobula. But get this, the mobula was a new ship, meaning its concept was new. Also meaning that its traits and statistiscs are something you wouldnt welcome to the squid PRE mobula.
But now that we have something like the mobula. Giving the squid aprox the same ammount of Vertical power as the Mobula can really create a Speed-Tank ship.
When the squids engines go down, you still have the baloon. IF your baloon is down, you have your engines. If both are down you are pretty much dead. But in most cases its either one or the other. Giving the squid Mobula power may just put it back into an unkillable state (Unkillable with proper squid piloting)
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Phoenix claw. What good is a fast/maneuverable boat when even a pig like the pyra can keep pace with a circling opponent?
Until its fixed, yea, the squid's primary advantage is for naught. Not to say balloon "strength" wouldn't be fun, but id rather fix claw to get a good baseline.
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Phoenix claw. What good is a fast/maneuverable boat when even a pig like the pyra can keep pace with a circling opponent?
What good is a pilot tool that increases turning speed, if it doesn't increase turning speed to the level where it actually matters? Otherwise one could just give up the second something is stops being in front of your pyra.
Until its fixed, yea, the squid's primary advantage is for naught. Not to say balloon "strength" wouldn't be fun, but id rather fix claw to get a good baseline.
Refer to this:
Phoenix claw on other ships doesn't really negate it's effectiveness either. As a squid pilot, one of your biggest strengths is having an easily accessible forward and rear facing gun. So instead of strafing around a ship, just pass under or over them and use the tail gun. If they try to repeat the process, do it again in reverse. Once a squid gets in close, it can be extremely hard to get them off of you. (Some ships have an easier time of course, like the junker)
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I never said to decrease its effectiveness.
There's plenty of good ideas out there on how to fix it. I'm ready to test them all. Claw lets you turn a pyra's turn speed (example) from x to y for no penalty. It was set to x for a reason, namely balance.
Thomas does have a point, but its not enough to simply make the squid worth taking. Every time you have to go over or under, you aren't shooting. One of the biggest fallouts of a squid is its lack of damage output unless it's totally ignored. Focus the allies of the squid, and you're left running around the map being generally useless.
Do i think claw will solve every issue with squid? No. But its the start that needs to happen.
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The more I fly the Squid the more I realize the ship is fine where it is. Pilots need to try out new builds and learn how to fly the ship a different way. The same thing happened with the Goldfish. Lots of us thought it was under powered and needed a buff only to fine that we just needed to fly the damn thing more and fine a use for it.
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The premise of the thread is that there's something "wrong" with the Squid performing best with short-ranged weapons.
In any game with classes or customisation where playable vehicles/characters can move at different speeds, the faster units are the best to equip short-range weapons on. I don't see why this would be a problem in the first place.