Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Squidslinger Gilder on August 23, 2014, 08:28:03 pm
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Honestly I've little faith in the weapon. When you enter CQC engagements, flames and carronade cause instant havoc and quick results while gat...1 clip, 2 clip, and sometimes more, finally armor goes down. Just takes far too long. Half the shots are hitting components and not hitting the hull but heavy clip so blech so can't use that. When you are engaging Junkers and Galleons they can just sit there laughing while you pin prick them cause they know you're never going to crack that armor in time.
In killing power, we've got our range engagements, we've got our mid range, and now we've got nothing but disable in close. Sure some use CQC kill builds still but often times I notice them ramming or bringing in a side gun with extra arc to make it work. So lets talk Gatling. It sucks, so what can be done? Reload speed? Ammo adjustment? Tiny buff to dmg?
Easy answer is just run it buffed all the time but imo, there is something wrong if anything needs a tool to make it viable. Tools should make something "Oh crap its buffed! Tank Tank Tank!!"
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I think the gat is fine.
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I run gats on my junker and pyra and it's more than fine. Every gun needs a good gunner that knows how to use it and knows what ammo type to use in it. I've found the gun is best place on a pyra or a junker where they can have a supporting gun. The gat will burn armor very fast. Galleons are my ideal target for that reason. They turn too slow generally to do anything about me and that gives us time to do what we need to do with the gat. I try to avoid other junkers, but they pose little problem when the clan is on in a PUG.
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Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
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Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
This is accurate.
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Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
That doesn't account for the engies on the other ship doing the job and actually repairing their ship, a few mallet hits could make it 2-3 clips to take out a junker or galleon armor. However I don't think the gatling needs a buff (as in muse makes it better) considering it does fine in a basic meta set up while carros and flamers work better for balloons and disables, even then a gatling can still work well at taking out guns and engines if it is buffed or uses heavy clip.
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The gat is fine where it is.
It can oneclipkill pyras and even junkers if the enemy does a mistake.
Take greased+buff and see those armor fall with nothing for the enemy engineer to do.
For everything else that isnt a oneclip you got that rather short reload time.
And the buff is only needed to counter the enemys buff. How you want to kill a buff without a buff? Thats the reason you buff cause the pyra got 840ish armor with buff and your unbuffed gat cant strip through. If theres no buff on the enemy you dont need one of your own.
And didnt you talk about outmaneuvering the enemy? If your gat doesnt get the instakill on a junker or galli (for which those are designed with their tankyness) you have to place yourself in a way the enemy cant react. Sure youre dead if you stay on their broadside and in their perfect arcs.
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Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
Show me the gunner who can reliably (that is 8 out of 10 times) oneclip any ship which has a competent engineers during approach to brawl without a buff on the gatling. Mind ye, even with buffs, the gat only has a 20% boost to damage while hulls get 30%.
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The gattling gun is very much fun, flamer and carronade do their thing, and the gat does its thing.
Gattling does a job that most guns need in order to destroy the enemy ship
While flamer and carronade need alot more time. Flamer can create havoc but it can be countered.
Carronade can take out baloon and maybe some components, but it still wont create dread on the ship.
Gattling however takes armor down, which is the most important thing to keep up. Once that armor is down, you can die.
Gattling doesnt suck at all. Where did you really get that from?
The only other armor piercing gun that i think is a bit too strong is the hades in comparison. It not been changed since release and good use of hades is always better than gattling which i think is a troubling sign.
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They actually did buff the hades a bit soon after release. They made it easier to shoot at least.
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Hum, you are probably running with gunners who are aiming incorrectly.
I actually hate the gatling and think it is too powerful XD
It is true that without buff, it is possible with decent luck to outengineer the gat for ONE strip, but barely.
The trick is to spanner until mallet is 100% effective. I'm not sure if all engineers know this, but you really should in order to save your ship. VS a bad gunner you can save your ship and setup a counterattack. VS buffed gat or a good gunner, you're just buying a little bit of time.
Also I am pretty sure with any engineer you cannot one clip a galleon. Junker is even harder, as the hit box is tiny and 50% of the hittable area are guns/engines.
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Not only that, the gattling can be combined into dual more reliably (From yourself or teamate) 2 gattlings is extremely powerfull, better thann dual carronades and flamers.
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Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
That doesn't account for the engies on the other ship doing the job and actually repairing their ship, a few mallet hits could make it 2-3 clips to take out a junker or galleon armor. However I don't think the gatling needs a buff (as in muse makes it better) considering it does fine in a basic meta set up while carros and flamers work better for balloons and disables, even then a gatling can still work well at taking out guns and engines if it is buffed or uses heavy clip.
I did actually include repairs when I said that. The thing is you won't get more than 1 mallet hit in before the gatling has finished it's clip so to double check my math, figure out how much damage a gat can do in 1 clip (dmgpshot * shotsinclip) and compare it to the armor of whatever you're shooting at (add in the repair power for a mallet if you want).Um.. you do realize that a gat can 1 clip any ship armor right? (even galleon armor, though that is tougher) If it is taking more than 1 clip that is a problem with the gunner not the gun.
Show me the gunner who can reliably (that is 8 out of 10 times) oneclip any ship which has a competent engineers during approach to brawl without a buff on the gatling. Mind ye, even with buffs, the gat only has a 20% boost to damage while hulls get 30%.
In a gat, I consider unbuffed with normal ammo the absolute worst case scenario. If you're running anything with less hull stripping ability, well you're really trying to get yourself killed. I don't know if there are gunners who can reliably 1 clip a galleon with an unbuffed gat and normal rounds. Most of the time, greased rounds are what's in the buffed gat on my ship. However, buffed gallys are interesting beasts to bring down, and they are VERY rare. Against a buffed galleon, it would be ridiculously hard (You'd need to land every shot on hull.) If I see comp. teams start to bring gallys I might start experimenting with burst/heatsink ammo for the extra shots (But that might be a horrible idea in practice, I haven't tried it.) Now to return to the question of the reliable gat gunner, Duck Ponds are Tuesday nights at 8pm edt and Thursday nights at 10pm edt. I hope to see you there.
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Just FYI, greased does the same total damage as normal, with the caveat that it expends the clip faster.
That is the only benefit of greased rounds.
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Gilder each post of yours regarding balance is considerably more hilarious than the previous one :D
At this point I'm not even sure what game you're imagining you're playing while in GoIo.
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The problem with the Gatling is that new players don't know how to compensate for ship turning/movement and miss with what is arguably one of the easiest weapons in the game. The number of times I have watched a novice gunner dump a full clip of Gatling into the empty sky to the left or right of a target saddens me to no end. I think it has something to do with the tracers in client space not syncing with the tracers in server space.
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It's supposed to be difficult.. The problem is that it's counter-intuitive.
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I think the Gatling is actually some of the most balanced it has been for a while - with a good Hades gunner it can be outdone at range.
Back when I started out I remember getting told to bring nothing but heavy clip, sitting on the Gatling and watching it literally shoot for miles. Let's not go back to that please ;)
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The problem with the Gatling is that new players don't know how to compensate for ship turning/movement and miss with what is arguably one of the easiest weapons in the game. The number of times I have watched a novice gunner dump a full clip of Gatling into the empty sky to the left or right of a target saddens me to no end. I think it has something to do with the tracers in client space not syncing with the tracers in server space.
Tracers mean absolutely nothing yep.
Gatling projectiles are not projectiles - they are actually invisible just like carronade shots. The tracer shots are just a client artefact that does nothing but confuse.
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I thought they addressed that a few patches back.
I stopped playing around then so I never saw how that worked out. Sounds like it didn't
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I thought they addressed that a few patches back.
I stopped playing around then so I never saw how that worked out. Sounds like it didn't
They made the tracers closer to what the weapon was doing, but didn't manage to completely fix it.
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Gilder each post of yours regarding balance is considerably more hilarious than the previous one :D
At this point I'm not even sure what game you're imagining you're playing while in GoIo.
A visual novel obviously (please don't kill me for that joke)
From personal expierence of gatling engineer and anti-gatling hull healer, I may say that it is significantly skill-dependent gun, but it is not that obvious than with other guns. It is hard to understand difference of missing 30/98 bullets and missing 15/98, especially with the community's erotic fetish of pyramidions, but once you meet a decent junker/galleon, difference shows itself.
Gatling does not really need a change. Since I got a brief knowledge of game's history, the gun been changed multiple times, and it is came to the point where the gun should be left on it's position.
But I feel like there is great potential of introducing new ammo types. Currently, Gatling is used with heavy or greased ammo. If we think of an ammo type, which will work on gat as well, we may get more gunners on this position. That is the way to rebalance the gun, but the direct changes of gat are really unnecessary
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Just FYI, greased does the same total damage as normal, with the caveat that it expends the clip faster.
That is the only benefit of greased rounds.
Increased DPS means less delay before the explosions start eating hull instead of armour.
Gatling BY ITSELF is a pretty weak gun because it can't hurt much other than armour.
Gatling in a bifecta with anything capable of significant hull damage is absolutely devastating.
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I did actually include repairs when I said that. The thing is you won't get more than 1 mallet hit in before the gatling has finished it's clip so to double check my math, figure out how much damage a gat can do in 1 clip (dmgpshot * shotsinclip) and compare it to the armor of whatever you're shooting at (add in the repair power for a mallet if you want).
This may sound insulting but using a mallet to fight a gatling is kind of idiotic, while if you take into account ammo types they can take down armor quicker, using the spanner as the repair tool allows for a more consistent repair and stave off complete armor degradation long enough for them to waste the clip, and if need be because of the short cool down you can pop the mallet in an emergency.
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This may sound insulting but using a mallet to fight a gatling is kind of idiotic, while if you take into account ammo types they can take down armor quicker, using the spanner as the repair tool allows for a more consistent repair and stave off complete armor degradation long enough for them to waste the clip, and if need be because of the short cool down you can pop the mallet in an emergency.
I don't understand your statement, and it is a bit insulting (even though I don't think i'm the person you're responding to XD).
It is without a doubt a fact that mallet is the most efficient repair tool, time wise.
Repairing is also a commutative action, namely mallet then spanner = spanner then mallet.
I want to also point out a corollary to this: mallet allows you 9 (-whatever seconds it takes to breach hull) seconds to run around, spanner effectively gives you ZERO seconds to run around, since there isn't enough turnaround time on any ship to hit something else then come back.
These are the rules.
Now, if what you're saying is "pad the gatling strip with spanner until you can mallet with 100% efficiency" then yes, I agree with you. Theoretically the maximum time you can buy with efficiency is spanner -> wrench -> mallet given general gunner accuracy/greased use. However, the engie is rarely going to have all 3 tools. So you go spanner -> spanner -> mallet.
If what you're saying is "pad the gatling strip with spanner until 1% hull then mallet" then I will have to completely disagree with you.
One - Once overflow is out of the question, if you do 4 spanner hits you are already losing in efficiency (yes timewise) to a mallet.
Two - If you have enough time to pad out excess spanners, you could have appended those to the end of the mallet and have the same net repair amount - in fact, if you had taken those spanners out and double mallet hit instead - you'd be WAY ahead on hp repaired.
Three - if you misjudge the lower the hull goes the more chance they will breach the hull, and then its all over. High risk, low reward.
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He got a point.
When you want to keep up your armor against a gatling or any other oneclipkill weapon (hades) the only way to keep it alive is to keep hitting it with a spanner aslong as possible. Save the mallet for the last possible second. That way you might have a chance to not get oneclipped by a gat.
Assuming he is hitting correct aka armor and no components.
Atleast for a pyra. Even a buffed one ...
When you use a mallet you will surely loose your armor if hes not missing half his clip. With spanner you might survive it without a armorbreak.
Which is the only way the engineer can fight metamidions cause mortar will surely kill you before you can rebuild.
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No, the point is to hold the hull as long as possible, against the gatling alone you should be able to hold it for a period of time, it can and will breach it eventually, that's not the point, you hold against that gatling until a change in environment allows you to do something else.
So in response to specific points:
1. Considering the mallets superior repair ability, of course it'll out class the spanner (Which is used for rebuilds) in time and investment that you could be spending elsewhere, while the armor is slowly and surely being stripped faster than you can repair it, it's meant to extend the time between mallet swings, if they are necessary at all, I find it often that the gatling is impacting components which in a way shields the hull from fragments of damage for a time.
2. Honestly, I believe opening with a mallet swing while more immediately against the gatling is more damaging in the long run, opening with the spanner allows a greater deal of flexibility, which includes, and more likely will lead to a mallet swing.
3. That's a risk someone has to be willing to make, though it's not one you should rely on 24/7, hell I would advocate avoiding doing so whenever possible. If you are taking increasing damage against the gatling the possibility of missing a last minute mallet hit increases, it's something I try to avoid when I engineer and something I work to prevent when I pilot.
Again, if there is a gat you should probably do something to disable their ability use it, whether it be taking down the gun or moving out of arc something has to be done, you shouldn't be sitting there taking the damage if you can help it.
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You guys (except alistair) are agreeing. Optimal repair of armor is 2-3 spanner hits (padding), then a mallet swing at full efficiency, then go do something else (or not). Certainly don't wait until last second to use mallet, use mallet as soon as there's a large enough dent in armor (but not sooner).
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That depends on the speed of the armor draining or the armor you are repairing.
On junkers and galleons, you may just have enough time to put 2 maximum gain mallets in
while on pyras and on, the mallet cooldown wouldnt hold up against good shots. So its better to spanner in the last second of armor.
Again, it still depends on ship, armor, ammount of piercing taken and high level play.
So its very hard to tell an early mallet will be good or a late mallet.