Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Spud Nick on January 17, 2014, 09:00:38 am
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Does anybody use incendiary rounds to set stuff on fire? (other than us Cakes) I find that most players just use it to reduce arming time. Do you guys think it would be more useful if it had a greater fire ignition chance? (It's only at 20% now)
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I use it in the gatling, carronade, and even flamethrower to set fires. I like heatsink for arming time reduction.
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I mostly use it to adjust arming time on weapons (since it slows the rounds). But it does add a decent fire chance. If you use it on a mine, just about everything the mine explodes will catch fire. I never suspected it would work well on a gatling until someone used it on my ship. It's surprisingly effective at starting a lot of fires. Carronade is always fun as well.
But it does work on everything and adds a decent fire chance. Personally I think it's best on high damage explosive weapons that already have a pretty good fire chance.
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I do use it in carronade and gatling, occasionally in the hwacha too. Such a fine clip, but rarely used.
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It seems like 20% is rather low. Would it be to powerful if it had 50% ignition chance?
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50% would almost certainly be too high. Right now, a gatling gun should theoretically be able to set fires every 5 bullets. You would more than halve the number of bullets to set fires. Mercury field guns would be almost guaranteed to set fires (wait, why would you... field guns aren't the best example maybe), etc. 25-35% would probably make it a little bit more used, but 50% would be too high.
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I really don't think it needs changing. It's used on many guns (as previously posts show) for its intended purpose, and some outside of it, which still gives that fire chance bonus.
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Right. I wouldn't be opposed to a very slight buff, but it work's pretty well as intended. It isn't supposed to turn your weapon into a flamethrower.
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Must be the Cake in me than.
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I only use them on both the heavy and light carronade for their intended purpose, and the mine launcher partly for their purpose but mostly to change the arming distance. For other weapons I tent to prefer greased rounds to reduce arming, which although are less effective tend to give better dps and overall damage out put over a negligible few meters difference between the round types arming reduction. From the perspective of the heavy and light carronade I would like to see this ammo with a higher ignition chance percentage
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I don't use it myself but I understand why people use it in most cases. I disagree with people who like it in Gatlings and Hwachas but as a carronade user, I can see the appeal in having the fire finish the balloon job.
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Well it can work on a gatling. But it totally depends on your enemy.
IF you fight sth like a mobula u can bring it so you can distract 2 engineers with your shots gaining fire superiority quite easy.
And a incendiary gat can still shred a mobhull.
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balloon job.
Kinky.
Also I have a question: Is setting fire to a ship really that important that you'd carry incendiary rounds instead of something else?
It's just that as an engie I've seen fires set off in 3 (maybe 4) different parts of the ship at a time, max. (or maybe I haven't really faced an extremely fiery opponent yet. Get it? xD). It's also easy to take any amount of stacks with the fire extinguisher, which you can quickly switch to if you see one of the other team's ships has a lot of fire starting guns and its crew has the ammo. And in general it doesn't seem to cause that much trouble.
Again, I'm still pretty new to all technical stuff so I'm mostly sharing what I've seen in my little experience and waiting to be corrected [*happy face*]
Edit:
Well it can work on a gatling. But it totally depends on your enemy.
IF you fight sth like a mobula u can bring it so you can distract 2 engineers with your shots gaining fire superiority quite easy.
And a incendiary gat can still shred a mobhull.
Well that's one good time to bring incendiary then, thanks! xD
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Why would I want to distract engineers on a mobula by setting their hull on fire when an unbuffed greased Gatling can shred the mobula hull in 2.688 seconds? Even if you're shooting poorly with the gat as long as 58% of your shots hit the hull, you can do it one clip meaning 4.656 seconds (any lower you need a reload). With incendiary, at 2.688 seconds you've done base 228 damage to the hull. Is the fire in that time really going to have done 372 damage? I don't know the specifics on fire damage but I am fairly sure that the fire would not be enough.
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Nope you dotnt want to enlighten the hull.
You enlighten the balloon so you pull of 2 players from shooting so its quite easy to gain fire superiority.
Thats the weakness of the mob. You can pull of ppl from guns just by doing dmg and both those components.
And no fire for the pure meaning of setting things on fire isnt worth it in most parts.
The potential of fire is more to pull ppl of from components they arent able to run to atm cause they have distraction all over their ship.
A flamer can shred hull armor quite decent when the enemy hull isnt chem sprayed.
And when that happens you pull the main engineer to the hull. When you now get enough fire stacks on the engines they will die at some point or pull another guy from his job (probably shooting) This means you managed to pin 2 enemy engineers to a certain job for a certain amount of time.
This can give you the gun superiority quite easy. However this can be ruined quite effectivle by a chem spray.
But fire can also make the decision for a hull engineer harder. When you have a high enough amount of stacks on the hull and shooting it whilst that so it will probably go down you force the engineer to a decision he dont likes cause he cant do both.
Good example for this is a hades banshee setup.
You get alot of fire stacks from both guns on the enemy and specially on his hull.
But whilst you set things on fire you also shred the enemy armor with your piercing dmg. That means that the enemy hull engineer will get to the point where it doesnt matter what he does, the armor will die. This can also draw ppl from their guns if you get a high enough amount of firestacks on him.
A single fire stack will probably not do the job in most cases. BUt several stacks on one component will do it.
In the case of a carronade you just get the possibilty to get those last bid of dmg in that you need to actually kill the enemy balloon and do more to their other components by setting them on fire.
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Why pull engineers off guns when I can just pull it out of the sky? Also chem spray will ruin your day in this plan. Really a sensible crew will ruin the plan.
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And thats where the incendiary gat shines sammy.
Get his hull down once. Lets say on a mobula to keep the example. You somehow dont get your finisher in intime. Maybe your gun was sniped, you got a bump so your mortar isnt on arc or the enemy slip into cover.
Then you can put the fire on the enemy hull right when it comes back up. That means he either will loose his hull again to the fire dmg or to the piercing dmg cause he wasted 3 seconds for the chem cd.
And yes a incendiary gat can instagib a mobhull in one clip.
Thats the reason that thing works. For what i rly need greased in that case? You will kill his armor quite faster yes. But while you kill the enemy hull you will still have 2 guys shooting at you.
With the incendiary gat you delay your kill for only a bid of time but you are much safer due to pulling off several players.
Sure this tactic is quite advanced and situational and in most cases i would stick to greased. Just saying that it can work in certain situations.
ITs nothing i would recommend for newer players.
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More complicated and longer doesn't necessarily mean more effective. If I want to distract engis on a balloon I will destroy it as no amount of chem spray can stop a carronade. If your plan falls apart if they have chem spray, it may not be a great plan.
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With a carronade i will probably not have a gatling on the same ship so thats nowhere near realistic. Im talking about certain setups that use gat mortars which can use this as a counter to certain ships.
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I can concede that your build works if the enemy doesn't have chem spray, you have no faith in your second gun, and you aren't worried about getting shot at.
I am not a player who only goes for quick kills, however there are betters ways to overwhelm the engineers of a ship.
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Regardless of what you think in terms of if it's worth taking, the point here is that it does do its job very well for those of us who prefer slower, more chaotic kills. Adding more % would just make it the only choice, rather than a choice.
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I don't think the majority share this opinion, but I've more or less believed that incendiary has been underpowered ever since the amount of flame stacks needed to kick people off of guns was changed.
I don't necessarily think the % chance of fire needs to be buffed, rather there should just be less debuffs to the overall dps of the gun to make it a worthwhile ammo choice.
Their just aren't really that many uses for the ammo type and their are currently no weapons in the game that I'd take incendiary on if I only had 1 ammo option.
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Not all of us take three engies and limit ourselves to one ammo.
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Not all of us take three engies and limit ourselves to one ammo.
heh
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Not all of us take three engies and limit ourselves to one ammo.
I should have phrased that differently. That schism in game philosophy aside incendiary currently is not the best ammo for any weapon. It has some situational use on carronade and gets pretty good utility on mine launcher but even if I'm a gunner on those guns, I'm probably not loading in incendiary 90% of the time. I think the ammo has far too many drawbacks for the small % of fire chance easily countered by recently buffed fire tools.
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I actually played with incendiary gatling gun a bit yesterday. Was kind of fun. Especially after you pop their hull the first time. You can load up the incendiary and spray about their ship, causing happy little surprise fires to pop up. If you use it for the initial engagement, it actually might work better than regular gatling or the other ammo types. For just pure damage they'll just spanner and mallet the hull to keep the armor up. But with the incendiary they'll often have a knee jerk reaction to put the fire out. At that point you've already done damage and they haven't repaired it. During the cooldown on the fire ext you add more damage, possibly breaking the armor faster than anticipated.
It mostly depends on their crew and the crew's reaction time though.
So regular has 82 rounds with a damage potential of about 1086.5 damage in roughly 9.84 seconds
Incend will have 62 rounds and do about 821.5 damage in 10.63 seconds, on top of whatever damage the fire stacks cause
(Speaking of fire stacks, does anyone know how much damage is caused per stack of fire? )
You do lose some raw damage potential, but you do make them work a lot harder to make it up with the fire stacks. And if they mallet the hull, those fire stacks will just be sitting there eating away at it, even while you reload.
And as mentioned, chem spray will ruin your cunning surprise fire plan. But that's true with -any- fire based damage and weapons. At least with the gatling gun (and other weapons) they're often not expecting it as much. Especially if you bring a gunner who has other ammo types more often associated with those weapons.
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Not all of us take three engies and limit ourselves to one ammo.
I should have phrased that differently. That schism in game philosophy aside incendiary currently is not the best ammo for any weapon. It has some situational use on carronade and gets pretty good utility on mine launcher but even if I'm a gunner on those guns, I'm probably not loading in incendiary 90% of the time. I think the ammo has far too many drawbacks for the small % of fire chance easily countered by recently buffed fire tools.
I don't think it needs to be the "best" to be considered useful. It fulfills many niche' rolls and I think it's in a good spot to do it. A little chaos goes a long way. I wouldn't tell anyone to solely rely on it as the only ammo for sure, but it compliments many ammo kits.
TLDR: It doesn't need buffs.
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Just cause I would never use it, doesn't mean I don't understand its appeal and its role for some. However I would urge people to never assume an enemy hull will be left un-chem-sprayed. If you plan on having a longer engagement, disabling and engineer overwhelm strategies will work well. I just think its weird to use Gatlings for longer engagements when they are without a doubt the greatest quick kill weapon.
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Not all of us take three engies and limit ourselves to one ammo.
I should have phrased that differently. That schism in game philosophy aside incendiary currently is not the best ammo for any weapon. It has some situational use on carronade and gets pretty good utility on mine launcher but even if I'm a gunner on those guns, I'm probably not loading in incendiary 90% of the time. I think the ammo has far too many drawbacks for the small % of fire chance easily countered by recently buffed fire tools.
I don't think it needs to be the "best" to be considered useful. It fulfills many niche' rolls and I think it's in a good spot to do it. A little chaos goes a long way. I wouldn't tell anyone to solely rely on it as the only ammo for sure, but it compliments many ammo kits.
TLDR: It doesn't need buffs.
I agree they don't need to be the best on a gun; I just think incendiary should be better (especially with all the new fire tool buffs) so it's more useful and more used than it is now. I'd like to see it lose one of its penalties, either no rate of fire loss or no ammo loss, this would give it a ton more applications in the game.
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...Even Cake rarely brings Incendiary Rounds, and with a carronade for cake, it's usually 25% Incendiary, 70% of the time charged, 5% of the time heavy clip.
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For me incendiary rounds are a regular secondary ammo choice for carronades and weapons with arming time. I see how one can like incendiary on gats, but I definitly prefer it beeing fired with greased rounds (preferably by a buff engie) any time. I think it useful on flamers, but it isn't my first choice and as I barely ever put a gunner on a flamer, seeing flamers being shot with incendiary rounds will be a rare spot on my ships.
A way to make incendiary rounds more attractive might be to scale its ignition change or number of charges inflicted with the weapons shots/time ratio. This effect would have to be capped somehow though, as beacon like fires set by heavy flaks or mercs would probably ruin the balance.
Also think it shouldn't be the ammo type with the highest projectile velocity reduction.
A question regarding incendiary rounds:
does the chance of ignition apply to the primary damage, the secondary one or both?
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Chance of ignition for incendiary ammo is a set % per shot on point of impact. Guns with explosive damage other than carousel have a % of fire chance for primary damage on point of impact. Higher damage has higher %.
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25%