Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Commodore Phoenix on August 13, 2013, 05:07:04 pm
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As a captain who believes in skill and relying on ability rather than what the game can offer, I believe that the new names under a spotted ship is dumbing down the game. That's it if you want more of an argument comment.
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I really don't think this makes much a difference in games, honestly. I mean, like once in a blue moon through the clouds it might make a small change but frankly, as far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.
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Say you are going up against two pyramidions, one is piloted by a level 10 with a crew of all the same clan tag, while the other one is piloted by a level 3 with a level 2 gunner and two AI. Who do you target first? Before we had to guess which one was capable of the highest dps, and which one we could safely ignore.
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Exactly it removes all gameplay and just makes it quite stupid its making the game more easy for easy players but its making it worthless for players that are skilled. It was already easy to tell the difference between ships now its just slapping people, who have intelligence, in the face.
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Exactly. It removes all gameplay and just makes it quite stupid. It's making the game easier for unskilled players but it's making it worthless for players that are skilled. It was already easy to tell the difference between ships now it's just slapping people with intelligence in the face.
I know, I hate how having the ship's name displayed removed all that gun-shooting and engine-repairing gameplay I used to love so much. Now all we can do is sit on Dunes and stare at the names on any ship we can spot.
Honestly, I'm not a huge fan because I don't like the way it looks, but it really doesn't change how the game is played at all.
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What I'm saying is where did we say that we needed to have the names on the ship could we not use our intelligence to work it out seriously the only reason that we would possibly need names under each ship would be if they were both the same ship and we were on a beginners match, I am saying that it just makes gameplay silly if all we do is target a ship that has a name under instead of working out which ship is which when we engage them by their weapons or by who is destroying parts. Gameplay isn't about who can shoot the most things or repair the most objects it's about using wit, guile and subterfuge to outsmart your enemy, so that you arent just in a game where you end up with everyone sitting on one point each. Coordination is the best part of team-work and if you remove the need for communication then it makes it even easier just to have silent matches, which is not a good thing for this game.
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I can understand where you are coming from, but i really don't think this UI change "removes all gameplay". Then again i know most gamers are just very adverse to change. I just find it hard to believe that because you can see the name of the ship instead of just the ship with a box around it, that all of the sudden you need absolutely no communication with your crew anymore.
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What on earth are you guys complaining about? The names are an awesome addition. Before, coordinated targeting against two of the same ships was "hit the guy who's up higher in altitude" or "the guy to the most south." What is so game destroying about "Holy#!&% the (insert name here) is closing fast! All to the (insert name here)!"?
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I think Phoenix is looking at this from the wrong angle. Here is a quote from 40k which describes my view on the matter:
The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight.
The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill. This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear…
[\quote]
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It's unrealistic, it's intrusive, and it's dumbing down. I don't like it.
By removing all ambiguity, you are requiring less skill.
A reasonable compromise that someone suggested is that the names only appear on spotted ships while looking at them through a spyglass. Other suggestions were enabling it only on beginners matches, or adding a game-creation option for whether it should be enabled for that match. All would be an improvement.
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It's both kinda cool, but kind of pointless.
Maybe when we get full ship customization, it would make sense, but as of now, it's rather "meh" to me.
I can see how people like it for when against a all pyramidion team or something, figuring out which team is the more threatening, but those were always easy to figure out early in the game, if you knew what you were looking for. Ram happy pyramidion? Probably not your big threat, just pot him off a bit and focus on the guy who looks like he knows what he's doing.
And what will happen when all the level 10's name their ship the same name as the level 1's? Same problem that people are arguing for why this feature should exist....
We should all name our ships Pyramidion, Goldfish, Squid....just to throw that argument off. "Go for the Pyramidion!" "Which Pyramidion?" "The Pyramidion named Pyramidion!" "But they're both called Pyramidion!"
..."Cut the blue wire Bob!" "BUT I'M COLOURBLIND!"
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I can't even understand your argument. How is seeing a name dumbing down the game? Aren't the name's of ships usually painted visibly on the side? The font is not even that big. What about not knowing the name of a ship makes it harder? There is no difference discerning the priority of a target whether you know it's name or not. If you think seeing the name of the ship makes things easier than I think there's something wrong with the way you select your target.
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Until we can do cosmetic changes to our ships, I really like it. I like that if I am playing with an allied Junker, my enemy knows which one will be delivering their doom. Calling out coordination based on ship name and not class makes it easier to immerse myself in the game. I'm not just saying the Galleon is the threat, I am not saying the Lucky Duck is the threat and so on.
I would say they need to turn it off for spectate. Otherwise we get the name above and below if we are looking in health bar mode.
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Maybe Muse could have the option as a tool in options that you can select or deselect as you wished?
Would that be enough to settle the rage in your heart? ;)
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It is dumbing down, turning it into an arcade game. The screen used to be nice and clean, now it's starting to resemble the HUD of an F-16. Not the low tech airship environment at all.
Put the names in the map or make them only visible when using a telescope, rather than create a HUD that's moving away from the low tech feel and aesthetic of the game. It would be more useful in 3v3 to have your own team's ship names showing on the map.
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I hate to agree but names should only be visible on the map (where they are really needed for allies too), no more hud junk please.
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When I saw this in the Dev app I suggested that it be made visible through the spy glass alone.
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I also think this has at most a minor effect on game play, but I do hate the UI clutter. Plus there was a certain charm to the moment of panic when, playing two of the same ship, you had to figure out which was more damaged.
I'll live with the changes, but I sort of honestly feel that more UI = terrible for this game. I like the compass and map, I don't think you should ever need more than that to play effectively. Minor cosmetic changes to ships would be pretty cool. Faction banners or something. Then you could call out targets based on that. I just think the name makes it feel less organic and authentic, rather than being a significant factor in balance.
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This is a change that serves to help new players. This game has a learning curve that, while not that bad, could use some help. Not having the name adds a tiny bit of depth in the situation of two ships of the same class, but it's not huge. The clean UI concerns I understand a little more, and an option to toggle the names wouldn't go unappreciated, but is it really worth all this commotion? In a more authentic setting, the name would be plastered onto the side of the ship anyways.
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Solution - Plaster ship names on the side
Now how cool would that be
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I like the idea of only being able to see the names through the spyglass and map, really. The names don't bother me at all, but I can see the different reasons one wouldn't want them up there.
If they were to go away in the next patch, I'd have no problems. If they were to stay, that'd be fine. A word or two under already unrealistic square boxes really in no way affects the game for me.
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This is a change that serves to help new players.
Great. Then make it an option, or as other's have said which I also like, only on the map and/or through the spyglass.
Also, I wouldn't know the name of a ship with it's name on the side unless I had line-of-sight on that particular point, with which I'd then have to remember which is which. Who doesn't want customization though?
I'm on the side of the UI clutter to be clear. It was a zero issue before to communicate different targets to your allies, even if they are the same ships. This reminds me of when people wanted the goldfish to be a different color because it was somehow hard to tell if it was on red team or not.
And yes it is worth some attention, because if nothing was said, it would be assumed we all loved more UI shapes and letters to be on the otherwise nice screen. If we plan to add this stuff for new players, then it would be great if it were an option, or as said earlier, scaled back to only on maps and/or through spyglass.
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This is a change that serves to help new players.
Great. Then make it an option, or as other's have said which I also like, only on the map and/or through the spyglass.
Or only in beginner matches... So the beginners can get used to recognizing the ships etc. before they move on to the "real game" where it's not so dumbed down. Or an option when creating a match. A per-player option would help the clutter aspect but wouldn't help the dumbing-down one. I expect people in clans would turn it off in normal matches to reduce the clutter but turn it back on in competitive matches where it may give them a slight edge.
Also, I wouldn't know the name of a ship with it's name on the side unless I had line-of-sight on that particular point, with which I'd then have to remember which is which. Who doesn't want customization though?
Which is why this magic ID system is unrealistic. Real ship names visible on the physical ships was something I suggested during the "testing", but an argument given against that would be that the text would have to be huge to be readable. There are places on all the ships where big enough writing would fit, and that would increase realism and immersion, rather than the current decreasing. It being hard to read writing through a spyglass also goes to show that identifying ships at a distance shouldn't be as easy as it currently is.
I'm on the side of the UI clutter to be clear. It was a zero issue before to communicate different targets to your allies, even if they are the same ships. This reminds me of when people wanted the goldfish to be a different color because it was somehow hard to tell if it was on red team or not.
But it wasn't a zero issue for everyone. It separated the better crews/teams from the less good ones. But now that is lost. No question which ship your allied captain is talking about going for. No question about which ship your captain is telling you to shoot. No question about what that ship behind the rock/in the clouds is. No question whether that pyra in the distance is the one with mercs or the one with flamers... I'd call that a loss of depth, and catering to new/poor players at the expense of the skill ceiling... Dumbing down.
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Well you have to realize that this isn't just the experienced player's game. I mean, we roughly agree it seems. I guess we don't on the solutions? This is only an issue when you have multiples of the same ship, otherwise you call "shoot the galleon" or "engage the junker."
I'm just looking for a middle ground. If someone wants to clutter their UI with ship names because they can't remember which ship is which, then let them. You could try to argue the tutorials are out to dumb down the game too, as for the longest time we didn't have them. But really its just another way to help people into the game and stay. I just don't want them on my screen, as I have no need. Kinda like music? I enjoyed it, but it got repetitive, so I turned it off.
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I'm torn between things. I like being able to identify problem ships when people take multiple ships of the same design, but I also kinda like the element of surprise of my enemy not knowing which one I am in the same situation. But it does make sense. If we could paint the names of our boats on our hulls, we probably would. Thus they could see which ship is which anyways.
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Agreed. But only if you're close enough to see it or are using a Spyglass and you're facing the side it's painted on. Right now the nametag kind of yells in your face.
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I'm torn between things. I like being able to identify problem ships when people take multiple ships of the same design, but I also kinda like the element of surprise of my enemy not knowing which one I am in the same situation. But it does make sense. If we could paint the names of our boats on our hulls, we probably would. Thus they could see which ship is which anyways.
tbh you recognise the ships by the way they are being piloted after the first engagement, names does make it easier to make sure everyone knows what ship is being targeted etc
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i think getting rid of spotting all together would be more fun, but thats just me.
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I'm a bit annoyed about how the names appear in spectator mode too. Isn't that a bit redundant since they're already on the health bars?
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i think getting rid of spotting all together would be more fun, but thats just me.
That would make things interesting, just do away with the spyglass altogether.
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i think getting rid of spotting all together would be more fun, but thats just me.
That would make things interesting, just do away with the spyglass altogether.
Sounds like some sort of hardcore mode. No UI, no spotting, no drums, no position indicator on map... Only communication and skill.
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And Captain's chat comes over some staticy, garbled line.
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No, captains chat can only be accomplished with tin cans and a string. If you want to communicate you have to fly close enough to toss the can, once you fly too far the string will break and you'll lose communication until you toss over another tin can.
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Line can also be broken by terrain, projectiles, and other ships.
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too easy.... https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,357.0.html this is what you're looking for........ and to get this topic back on track, I find that I'm indifferent to the name change.... yeah it lets me call out a ship name, but I usually just call it relating to the position they are against each other (top, bottom, left right)
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too easy.... https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,357.0.html this is what you're looking for........ and to get this topic back on track, I find that I'm indifferent to the name change.... yeah it lets me call out a ship name, but I usually just call it relating to the position they are against each other (top, bottom, left right)
I till revert to that once everyone knows the shipnames.
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have it so that the volume of people talking over the voice chat ajusts depending on how far away from that person you are
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No, captains chat can only be accomplished with tin cans and a string. If you want to communicate you have to fly close enough to toss the can, once you fly too far the string will break and you'll lose communication until you toss over another tin can.
This could revolutionize use of the Javelin Harpoon.
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No, captains chat can only be accomplished with tin cans and a string. If you want to communicate you have to fly close enough to toss the can, once you fly too far the string will break and you'll lose communication until you toss over another tin can.
This could revolutionize use of the Javelin Harpoon.
That gets a salute!
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i think getting rid of spotting all together would be more fun, but thats just me.
That would make things interesting, just do away with the spyglass altogether.
Sounds like some sort of hardcore mode. No UI, no spotting, no drums, no position indicator on map... Only communication and skill.
This needs to be in the game.
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we have a selection that gives you tips i.e the hull is damaged etc. can we not have an option for this also?