Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Captain Blueberry on August 01, 2013, 05:27:13 am
-
Hi Guys
I am still fairly new to GOIO, I played about 40 matches and had great fun. Anyways, I started enjoying the Hellfish, but so far I had no idea what to put on my side guns until now. I still have a lot of questions on what to do with the Hellfish and if you think the idea is stupid, please write me why. I feel that this layout idea is awesome with a good crew, but can be useless with an inexperienced team.
Anyways, I write the questions when they come up, here is what i want to write about:
Layout:
Main: Hellhound of course, or I wouldn't have called this thread "the Hellfish." I started liking it more than the Hwacha. Unlike the Hwachafish, a Hellfish can actually kill an other ship on its own or do considerable damage to the hull and armor over time. Also, it has a higher range than you would expect, which brings me to my first question: How do I know I am in range for the Hellhound? I can't see the projectiles, how do I know if a shot was effective or if i should have waited a second longer?
Portside: Artemis, the Idea is to disable the main gun of the "1.5 gun ships" like the Gatling/Flak Pyra or other Goldfishs. I haven't had a good shot Top engineer, so I don't know how good this works in practice. At least on paper it sounds like a good idea.
Starboard: Banshee, a support weapon to kill off a disabled ship. I first had a flamethrower on Starboard, but I rarely want to get that close even if the ship is disabled. The Banshee has the better range, also incinerates and has a great turning angle. If I want to give a volley of Banshee, i only have to turn the ship some few degrees.
Team Setup:
Top Engineer: Burst rounds. If he has nothing to do, he should man the Artemis and be a general nuisance if we are spotted.
Main Engineer: Greased rounds for the Banshee
Gunner: Well, here is one big question, what ammo should the gunner bring for the Hellhound? I have absolutely no idea.
Pilot: Kerosine and Tar at the moment. I like the tar because if I get caught out of posision, i am pretty much Suchi. It helps getting away from those Pyras and Squids. But what third tool? I don't feel a phoenix claw as essential on a goldfish as it is on a Pyra.
Tactics
The Hellfish exceeds at what I'd like to call 'the Pikaboo tactics'. If I can sneak up on a ship that is engaged or otherwise occupied, i can disable them before they can do serious damage. If I still don't get shot at, I can start on destroying the ship with a fast volley of Banshee rockets between the Hellhound shots. But how often, every second Hellhound volley? And on what should the Hellhound shoot after the balloon has popped the first time? Keeping up pressure on the balloon isn't bad, but since it also has good shatter power, shouldn't the gunner take some shots at the components?
By the way, how do I 'Pikaboo' more experienced teams? So far I surprised mostly inexperienced teams who focus on whatever is in front of their nose. So in a sense, how do pro's fly?
Say for example a friendly pyra is engaging an enemy ship, both are far away. Can a single artemis help enough to justify staying away, or should I rather speed to help up close?
If i was already spotted and only a single ship is engaging me, I could easily Pyramidion style approach and burst down the balloon. This works to some extend, but I am very sure there are better ways to engage a ship when I am spotted. Of course I wouldn't do this to any ship, I won't run up to a Galeon or a Mobula head to head. Also approaching a Pyra might be pushing it. So, how can I smartly approach other ships?
Thanks for reading so far, if you have any suggestions to the layout, team or tactics, please write them.
-
First off, nothing bad towards the name, the Hellfish as you call it is mostly called Blenderfish for some reason.
So. Let's get on with it.
How do I know I am in range for the Hellhound? I can't see the projectiles, how do I know if a shot was effective or if i should have waited a second longer?
It's hard to know when you are in range, so that is just something you have to practice lots and lots with.
Shoot one, hit or not hit? Check map for range. Shoot again, okay hit. Check map and you know what the range is. So that is just trial and error.
The difference between Hwach/carronade is what job you want done.
Long range heavy disable on components? Hwacha.
Close range killing power/Disable? Carronade.
About side guns, I agree that one side should carry an artemis for easier sniping of the enemy guns so that's good.
On the other side I could argue about a mortar to get the explosive damage available once you strip the hull with your carronade, turn a bit and just blow them to bits and pieces.
Team setup
Pilot: I don't run blenderfish that much anymore, and when I did kerosene was still phoenix claw equivalent but these are what I would pick now prob:
Kerosene, Tar and Claw.
Kerosene: get there faster.
Tar: Give them additional hell.
Claw: If you charge an enemy but don't want to ram, you pass close, max reverse and claw for max turning power and can be on them faster than they on you.
About engineers, I'd prob run one buffgineer with pipe, buff and extinguisher and one main engineer with a standard loadout.
Gunner should bring pipe and for round lochnagar, charged/heavy and incendiary/heavy. Why? I'll tell:
Lochnagar: Insane damage, and even more with buff on it.
Charged: Nice amounts of damage.
Heavy: Pinpoint those components mate, reduces spread a lot.
Incendiary: Grants a lot of fire stacks on hull/balloon. Source have told be about 10 stacks of fire per shot with Incendiary loaded.
Tactics.
This obviously depends a lot on the map and on what other ship you have as well as what ships you are facing.
Mostly you want to take out one of the enemy ship's balloon to take him out of fighting and then focus down the other ship, turning back to the 1st after that.
Or you can be that annoying bastard that sits on the enemy pinning his hull/balloon while driving the enemy to the ground killing him off that way.
Although, that requires your ally to be good enough to be able to finish off the other ship on his own.
Say for example a friendly pyra is engaging an enemy ship, both are far away. Can a single artemis help enough to justify staying away, or should I rather speed to help up close?
There are many variables to be taken in here. Some are:
Is your ally damaged and about to die?
Do you know where to enemy ship is?
Depending on the answer to those questions you decide whether or not going in is wise or not.
So, how can I smartly approach other ships?
This one is hard...
Most ships are exposed to their back, so try to get there, is what I would suggest.
It's a hard question, and the best thing is to just practice and learn by yourself how to handle the different ships.
That's about it from me.
Good luck out there.
-
Heavy is good for pinpointing, but it is amusing to bring Lesmok to further the range.
Usually I bring Lesmok, Charged and Lochnagar for random games with Blenderfish, but if a captain requests I bring Heavy for that added accuracy (I am only manning the guns, I do not decide which tactic is used). With Loch you need to have a clear shot and good co-operation between the captain and the gunner, but when it works... Sheesh. :D
I would support an Mortar on the side, especially if you get the buffgineer to bring Greased rounds.
-
For ammo I'd recommend lochnagar for its sheer power, heavy for its accuracy when you need to disable components, and I guess incendiary to harass with fire. Technically you'll get more damage per clip from charged than lochnagar, but the gun has such a high spread (which loch removes) that charged ends up missing enough projectiles to be less effective.
The main engineer should carry mallet/spanner/extinguisher for full repairs, and the second one should have mallet/spanner/buff. The pipe wrench setup is only necessary if you're really paranoid about fires, which you generally won't be. When in combat the buffgineer should be constantly buffing the gun and repairing loch damage with his mallet, only helping on other repairs when really required to. The mallet/spanner setup is way better than the pipe wrench one here since it allows much quicker gun repairs and it lets the engineer get the gun back up quickly if it's shot out. Speaking of which, the gunner should bring a spanner to help with rebuilding his own gun.
For side guns I'd recommend putting a flare somewhere for the general utility: it can be used to light up clouds, but an engineer can also jump on it mid-engagement to fire one into the enemy ship and light 10 stacks of fire per shot. On the other side, I suppose you'd want something with explosive damage to compliment your carronade. I'd go for a light flak. The engineer can quickly empty its clip, and it does tonnes of damage to an exposed hull. I don't really like using an Artemis on a blenderfish, since if you're really flying it right their guns shouldn't be getting into arc anyways.
Also, once the balloon goes down, it's generally good to keep targeting the balloon, since the damage will be transferred to the hull armour. Otherwise, take out anything that's a real threat. If an enemy Goldfish's hwacha is hurting you badly, shoot it out. If they're trying to run away, shoot their main engine. That's when you want to use heavy clip.
-
First of all, Welcome to the Forums!
Seems everyone got everything already lol.
I just want to emphasize the end of Sunderland's post for two reasons. One, there's a few walls of text and this might get lost and two, it's pretty important as it applies to all guns and ships.
Once a component is destroyed any damage that hits said component spills the damage to the hull.
So in this case with the balloon being the biggest target on most ships, if it goes down keep shooting at it. The armor will break, hull will be lost,
and ships will explode.
-
I too would recommend Heavy Clip, Lochnagar, and Incendiary. With a good gunner, your Carronade should take out the enemies balloon in two shots with a heavy clip, even at medium range. Once their balloon is down and you're closer, have your gunner switch to Incendiary and target the hull of the ship instead of the downed balloon so you can set multiple components on fire. When they repair their balloon, one shot from your front gun should destroy it again, regardless of ammo. Once they've bounced off the ground a few times and are about to die, load in the Loch round and fire it as they're about to hit the ground. Their armor goes down, they hit the floor, they explode, rinse, repeat.
-
Side guns on a Blenderfish (as it is called mostly) are usually situational, but keep in mind that this ship wants its front gun pointed at the enemy 90% of the time, make sure you side guns can be used quickly and don't take a lot of time to empty their clip.
Make sure you have Phoenix Claw, Kerozene and some sort of vertical movement tool like Hydro or Vent (usually Vent). If the Map doesn't have much vertical height, consider using just a buffed balloon and take Tar instead.
You want at least one Main enigneer with Spanner/Mallet/Extinguisher and a secondary one with a Spanner/Mallet/Buff Hammer.
Main engineer handles most of the ship, secondary helps with repairs and makes sure at least the gun is buffed when you need to fire.
Judging range will come with experience, the numerical range of the weapon is 450 meters, reload time of the gun is 4 seconds. If you are not sure, tell you gunner to keep firing it while you approach, it's dead silent and your enemies won't see anything flying towards them unless they look at you directly or you actually hit them, in which case the "Oh shit" mode on that ship should activate.
If you don't need to kick someone out of the fight, feel free to tell your gunner to aim directly for their armor.
Always tell your gunner to being Heavy Clip, Lochnagar and Incediary, these are the top rounds to maximize damage output and pressure power.
Alternate between rounds to increase your DPS. While 2 Heavy shots with a buff deal roughly the same ammount of damage as one with Lochnagar you save your self at least 1.5 seconds by using 1 Lochnagar per 10 seconds. In this race against the repair timer, you need every second you can get.
You can also approach with Lochnagar and pop their balloon instantly using that. Careful as turning your gun with Loch loaded is not that fast.
Only use Incediary when realy close range, the Hellhound's tremendous damage accompanied by around 5+ stacks of fire on multiple componets each time will cause some problems for the enemy engineers. Don't spam incediary, it lowers you DPS.
This gun will also instantly disable any gun or engine you hit with it, including both heavy engines and heavy guns.
Stay out of the enemy's gun arcs. Be careful, the carronades can't aim down a lot so staying above the enemy won't always be the easiest option, but if you can pull it off properly, is probably the safest place to be.
Mercuries are your bane, avoid at all costs. Artemis rocket launchers as well.
Did I forget anything?..
-
Thought i might throw my opinion in here
Ammo: Lesmok, Loch, Greased (have your gunner bring a wrench)
Lesmok will allow you to start peppering your foe earlier, and greased will give you and extra shot and let the already fast shooting Hellhound shoot even faster! Less damage yes, but a faster stream of damage. And of corse, Loch is a thing of beauty, just make sure your gunner hops off the gun and gives it a whack during that reload cycle.
Captain tools. Kerosene, Claw, Chute Vent.
I feel the first 2 tools have been explained already so let me explain the 3rd. A Goldfish's balloon can take a good deal of punishment from non balloon-popping weapons, and from your captain tools, so if your close up on a foe that is about to turn to face you with its guns, drop out of sight, and pop back up in his blind spot! If they do shoot at you while your going down your already hardy balloons will take the damage!
This principle also applies when approaching enemies. Im not sure of the top of my head if the the hellhound has a good upward arc, but if you approach enemies from below you can use your balloon as a shield, absorbing damage as you approach, then you pop back up after a pass bellow, and hit them with a loch to get there engineers in a fuss right off the bat.
Edit: After looking a little more at Incediary, i think you could easily swap it out for Lesmok. Heavy is also a great idea, but i still like greased. Personal preference even if a stupid one :P
-
Ammo: Lesmok, Loch, Greased (have your gunner bring a wrench)
Some constructive critisism if you don't mind..
Lesmok, despite tempting, doesn't do much for you, the increased range doesn't help you at all since your pellets' spread will be god awful at any range these rounds allow you to fire from, so you will end up doing almost no damage.
Greased while sounds good on paper is not realy useful unless you are right next to them, a luxury you won't have much and even if you are close Charged does a lot more for this gun at that range than these rounds would ever hope to.
Also lacking Heavy Clip on this gun and on any carronade, makes you horribly inaccurate at your max range and believe me on this ship, with this loadout, you will need every ounce of it.
-
After looking more at Lesmok vs Heavy i agree its not doing much for yah on this gun, stick with heavy and accuracy for range. However, I still like greased and Loch for the other two. I feel like getting close on a Blenderfish isnt too terribly hard, especially if you pop balloons then hit out their engines. Is greased rounds and buff really not viable when stacked against charged? If so I will make appropriate changes to my Blenderfish strategy.
I feel like with greased you can get in 6 shots before in between every 10 sec loch period. That and I may just enjoy hearing the sound of it shoot so much...
-
Echo, that is the reason I use Incendiary more than the other two. I LOVE (love love love) sending an enemy into "Oh shit" mode XD
-
Is greased rounds and buff really not viable when stacked against charged? If so I will make appropriate changes to my Blenderfish strategy.
Buff + Charged does 300% damage total, effectively giving you one more shot.
Greased doesn't help much, instead of firing the second shot after 1.5 seconds, you will fire it after ~0.7, then the reload is the same, doesn't save you much time, it also doesn't give you an extra shot, it's only +20% magazine capacity (would give you one more if it was 25%), also Greased damage reduction and buff cancel each other out. So you end up firing normal damage shots just a bit faster.
-
Everything I know is a LIE!!!!
strategy changed, thank you sir!
-
I too would recommend Heavy Clip, Lochnagar, and Incendiary. With a good gunner, your Carronade should take out the enemies balloon in two shots with a heavy clip, even at medium range. Once their balloon is down and you're closer, have your gunner switch to Incendiary and target the hull of the ship instead of the downed balloon so you can set multiple components on fire. When they repair their balloon, one shot from your front gun should destroy it again, regardless of ammo. Once they've bounced off the ground a few times and are about to die, load in the Loch round and fire it as they're about to hit the ground. Their armor goes down, they hit the floor, they explode, rinse, repeat.
This sounds.... Familiar...
Also, a close-quarters Loch round from the Carronade can one-hit kill the permahull of just about every ship. Well, every ship besides the Goldfish and the Galleon. But ONLY if preformed just right.
-
Also, a close-quarters Loch round from the Carronade can one-hit kill the permahull of just about every ship. Well, every ship besides the Goldfish and the Galleon. But ONLY if preformed just right.
I'm having trouble understanding the joke here...
-
I'm having trouble understanding the joke here...
I don't think there was a joke...
-
Also, a close-quarters Loch round from the Carronade can one-hit kill the permahull of just about every ship. Well, every ship besides the Goldfish and the Galleon. But ONLY if preformed just right.
I'm having trouble understanding the joke here...
Yeah, I'm not sure what it is either but that's not even close to true.
-
Also, a close-quarters Loch round from the Carronade can one-hit kill the permahull of just about every ship. Well, every ship besides the Goldfish and the Galleon. But ONLY if preformed just right.
I'm having trouble understanding the joke here...
Yeah, I'm not sure what it is either but that's not even close to true.
I think he meant the Heavy Flak. But this is the wrong thread for it.
-
Also, a close-quarters Loch round from the Carronade can one-hit kill the permahull of just about every ship. Well, every ship besides the Goldfish and the Galleon. But ONLY if preformed just right.
I'm having trouble understanding the joke here...
Yeah, I'm not sure what it is either but that's not even close to true.
Oh God. I feel like such a moron. I was thinking Heavy Flak. Come to think of it, I've only done the Loch kill on a Junker (which has low permahull to begin with) and a Pyri that just got out of a fight with another ship. I didn't notice any VISIBLE damage, that doesn't mean it was at full.
I apologize for any confusion and will try to stay away from giving suggestions while juggling a bunch of other things. (Or at least double-check what I said.)
-
Nah, don't worry about it.
As a last note about the flak, loch flak one-hits the permahull on everything other than Goldfish and Galleon, and it also catches the Goldfish if it's buffed.
Now, back on topic.
-
Wooow, I didn't expect that many replies. Thanks so far for your replies, they were very informative.
I am trying to summarize the info here:
Shooting on a component will damage the hull, if the component is destroyed. Thanks, I didn't know that. I assume you still get the damage penalty for the hull, right? Shooting the destroyed balloon doesn't give you the damage multiplier of the flechette type, it is the same multiplier as if you would have shot the hull directly. But the balloon is a bigger target, more pellets will hit the enemy. This is why you should keep shooting the balloon, right?
Layout:
Portside Gun (Support): Artemis or Flaregun are two possibilities depending on the enemy and the map. Although I didn't like the Flaregun much on the Goldfish even on close maps like Labyrinth. Shooting Flares in the cloud also destroys your cover and I feel cover is something the Goldfish needs more than other ships like the Junker. So if I take a flaregun with me, Tar seems an essential pilot tool. This gun will be manned by the top engineeer who is also buffing.
Starboard Gun (Killer): Mortar or Flak. Banshee is out because it doesn't do as much damage to the permahull as the other two and incinerating can be better done with the Hellhound. Am I right in assuming that the mortar is a better kill weapon on the Blenderfish, if my main engi is a good shot?
Team:
Gunner: Heavy Clip as general ammo for long and close range. Lochnagar for increasing DPS on both LONG AND CLOSE range, right? Incindiary for inducing panick if I am going in for the kill. As repair tool he should take a spanner with him to rebuild the gun asap.
Top Engineer: Mallet, Spanner, Buff or Wrench, Buff, Fire Ext if I am scared of fires. If he mans the Artemis, he should take burst rounds with him.
Main Engineer: Standard tools plus Greased rounds for Mortar or Charged for Flak.
Tactics:
Alright, so far I thought of the Hellhound as mainly a balloon destroying weapon, I haven't tried destroying components with it yet, but apparantly this works as well.
If I want to disable a ship that has it's back turned to me, I tell the gunner to shoot a volley of heavy clip on the engines and the second volley of lochnagar on the balloon, since it generally has a huge amount of health. If I am lucky, I already popped the balloon and can either go for the kill or disable a second ship. Is this sort of what you wanted to tell me?
If I want to kill a disabled ship, I sent the buff engi to the front to help with the gun repairs, tell the gunner to shoot one volley of incindiary and then as much Lochnagar as possible without breaking the gun. If he stripped the enemy ship of it's armor, I slightly turn so the main engi can shoot a volley of Mortar/Flak for the final blow. Rinse and repeat.
As a close range escape, I tried diving below the enemy ship a few times and it worked out great. Afterwards I am in a great position to rise up behind them and wreak havoc.
I start to think that piloting a successful Blenderfish is mainly bound to how well the pilot can communicate with his team, more so than on other ships. On a standard Gat/Flak Junker, you mainly have to man the gun and shoot at what the pilot tells you to shoot. But here you have to shoot the right target at the right component with the right ammo and preferably buffed.
After all your replies, I feel like I can almost write a Blenderfish guide ;) thanks a lot! I really enjoy the friendly GOIO Community.
-
Just don't expect a fast kill if your ally isn't co-ordinating with you, explosive starboard gun might help a bit, but still, pointing that to your enemy is much more of a hassle that just keeping your main gun (and most of your DPS) on them all the time while a good ally makes short work of their permahull.
Also keep in mind that popping their balloon is not always the optimal option, sometimes you want to leave that balloon alone and focus on the armor/components. Popping their balloon sometimes means your ally might lose gun arcs and might actually be detrimental to your efforts to kill your enemy.
Oh and, you're welcome.
-
If you take a light flak on your starboard you'll likely want different ammo types depending on what ships you're fighting against.
Heavy I think is still the better all purpose due to it's accuracy and is the preferred against mobulas, squids and junkers.
Burst is best for the extra shot (two shots more than heavy) and is likely your better choice against the other ships.
Though at the range blenderfish fight at, Mortar in most cases is still your best option in my opinion though getting it in arc at the right time is a bit of an art.
-
If you're taking explosive side guns, take pheonix to turn faster.