Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Squidslinger Gilder on July 10, 2013, 06:02:57 pm
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New achievements are insane. Not only did you people force us to redo Flayed but you are also making finishing others almost impossible. I have never seen entire opposing teams made of level 7+ let alone 10+. Even 4+ is very tough to find sometimes. These are all very rare situations and require players to be committed to this game as much as we are which does not happen. So you're literally punishing us for loving this game by forcing us to wait for some extreme rare chance of getting these players on. Then in most cases we have to literally pub stomp them which is near impossible unless we too are running with a stacked team. All in all this promotes matches where high levels bully newbies into leaving so they can get all the vet players in.
If these achievements are changed so that there only needs to be 1 player of this level on the opposing side then that would work a lot better. But still, your forcing a situation where no one will be able to get to 15, or to get there, they have to find some way to cheat to do it. If we are reaching level cap too fast then don't punish us for it. Some of us want to be able to cap all 3 classes. So we work hard on each one to get there. That isn't going to happen at this rate.
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I posted a thought similar to yours Gilder on another recent forum thread but I agree that many of the new achievements are simply cruel.
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Muse could publish the stats of how many players are at each level for each profession. I wouldn't expect more than a handful are currently at L11/12 so the very last achievements for each profession are currently impossible.
Matches with everyone at L7 or greater are possible at the moment, but only if those of us that qualify decide to abandon the lower level players and set-up private matches amongst ourselves. I don't think Muse intend to force this level of exclusivity and division amongst the player population. But I do realise just how far some players have pushed the achievement system by actively farming achievements for levels (and I don't think anyone L10 or higher can deny this) and Muse have probably hoped to buy some breathing space and slow the pace of level inflation at the top. The problem with the current situation us that it's going to create a small pool of players sitting either side of the L13/14 threshold growing in their frustration whilst waiting for others to catch up. Which for casual players like myself will probably never happen.
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I caught a comment I never thought I'd see today. Captain Phil stating he had given up.
If that doesn't sum up there is something wrong then I dunno what does...
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Hey, everyone,
I understand that the new achievements came as a bit of a shock. The enemy level caps were introduced to a few of the categories to make achievements more meaningful by ensuring that victory was earned against a worthy opponent, rather than farmed from helpless newbies. While I know our top players are generally more scrupulous than that, the existing achievements with no level requirements would encourage a real min-maxing achievement farmer to rack up those wins as quickly as possible by looking for the lowest-level players possible to win against, and dominate (perfect victory, no hull damage, etc.). That's tedious for the high-level player, and absolutely no fun for the lowbie. And the only way to make it take longer than a few matches to accomplish would be to require you to do it over and over again, which is even worse.
Yes, the top-level achievements aren't achievable right now because there's no one at those levels yet, because they were just released. I realize that the game's population and the number of high-level players are currently quite small, but we're planning for growth. Only a handful of categories use the level cap constraint, so it's still perfectly possible to continue to make progress. The numbers are large because this isn't a linear scale -- it takes longer to get from level 14 to 15 than from 4 to 5. There's nothing at stake here but glory, so we've planned for a very long curve to give the top players something to always be working toward. We would rather have a long progression with very lofty goals to strive toward than a quick, short curve that everyone can complete in a couple hundred hours and a lobby full of Elites.
I know it's the hardest on those of you who have been consistently hovering at or near the level cap as we release content, and your hours played to reach max level are going to exceed those of a player who joins today and plays to level 15. As the pioneers, you're the ones who get the roughest time of it as we work out the kinks. I'm also sorry for anyone who was caught out by some of the shuffles that were done in response to your feedback -- like moving Flayed back, since it was too tough to complete and slowing down progress at the lower levels. If you already completed that achievement once and would like a pass on it for the second time, email us at feedback and we'll try to figure out a way to let you skip it. (Although the real solution here is to make Flayed feel like a fun map that people enjoy playing, rather than a death sentence. We are working on it.)
I also appreciate that the caps seem punitive at the highest levels and are excessive for the current population of the game, so they've been lowered to 7+ for most high-level achievements. That should be going live in a patch soon (I don't know the exact timing, sorry -- on the other hand, I don't think anyone is actually at any of the affected achievements yet).
On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.
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Flayed wouldn't be bad if it wasn't near impossible to get players to join it. It has already developed a heavy stigma against it and literally you can only play it on weekends because people have an adverse reaction to playing it mid week and there are more players online who don't know well enough yet to hate it. The change to crazy king did not help it much because a lot of lowbies play it and they have no idea what crazy king means even after you tell them. To get Flayed done the first time I had made lobbies for it and sat in them up to 2hrs at times trying to get people.
If you want 4v4 content played more, then you need to bring in a deathmatch variant. Mix it with the CP version so it is an option and we'll start seeing more 4v4s.
Thank you for the reply, you can bet once Firnfeld is done, I will be sending a message in to get Flayed back.
As far as the level stuff. I can see the reasoning but to get perfect victories against high levels, which some require, is likely only going to happen if they private match and then arrange to trade losses. Players like us are too well coordinated to expect to push into meat grind situations, specially outside 3v3. You are looking at long drawn out sniper battles to get perfects and pub matches just don't have the time nor patience to put up with it.
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Thanks for the quick reply and consideration on these issues. You guys are consistently the most responsive dev team I have ever seen.
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One thing to consider when going for a logarithmic leveling scheme like this is that while it takes longer to complete 150 matches than 50 matches, it also takes much longer to beat level 10s 50 times than it does to beat level 4s 50 times. If you use both of these leveling systems at the same time, the time required multiplies by a very large amount, taking something that might be considered extremely challenging and pushing it to the realm of never ending.
I like that you must now fly against people of equal level to advance, I'm just not too thrilled that it requires an ever-escalating number of victories to advance to the next level... in a way, missions should get harder, not longer?
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Yeah I think I'm just going to cut back play time now. I don't really see it as possible to reach the end. It would take all level 1s getting instant turned into 10s to do it. Just not feasible. I'm close to 13 so I'll hit that but I see no point in continuing on. Congrads Muse...at 670 hrs into the game, you actually found a way to make me want to cut back time playing. Guess its time to revisit my long neglected Steam list and see what I've been forgoing to play for more Guns.
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Gilder.. you're just going to have to start working on your Gunner and Engineer paths again. Whilst you work up from Gunner L8 to L12 and Engineer L9 to L12 you can help a few of us currently around Pilot L8-10 to get up towards L11-12.
Whilst I do see and agree with your complaints (and support you in making them), I can also see that a small group of players have contributed to making this problem arise by farming the achievements and breaking away to race ahead of the peloton. You're going to have to scale back a bit on the race for Pilot levels and help the next bunch farm their missing achievements.
Part of the problem is some of the silly achievements that don't reflect standard gameplay. I'm sat with two achievement streams blocked requiring "defend point with Galleon", one of them being the Scrap one (and that comes really early on the Maps stream). It forces you to farm them if you want to achieve them in a reasonable space of time. Now, if five other Captains who need this want to join me I'll be happy to form a non-shooting queue to capture, defend, rinse'n'repeat and we'll all clear the relevant achievements within two or three games. I'm not saying that this is how all the "high level" players have achieved all of their levels, but I've participated in mutual achievement farming games with most of them.
On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.
There's nothing wrong with defend achievements. What's wrong is having to use a ****ing Galleon to do it (no apologies for implied language, I do feel strongly about this). Thinking that the "defend" part is the larger part of the problem fails to address the masochistic decision to force players to use the least appropriate ship for a CP game. It implies you're fiddling with the system without making an effort to understand the player perceived problem. And TWO achievements specify Galleon and Defend. Remove the Galleon requirement, it's easy to rack up Defends with any other ship. Change it to Junker if you want to specify ship type, it's far more suitable than Galleon for that role.
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The Galleon one is bad but not impossible. In an ideal situation the enemy has started capping and the galleon comes barreling in. Block is triggered and boom you get it. Unfortunately the game is very finicky on blocks. Sometimes it says a block, sometimes it says contest. If the achievement was changed to be contest with a galleon it would be much easier. In fact, a bit too easy. Personally I think defend should mean you sink a ship contesting while you are on a point. That is entirely doable with a galleon and not always easy since junkers/pyras will have the armor pen/dps advantage.
Honestly I only got my other two classes up to 8 just for the costume unlock. Really don't have a lot of incentive to go beyond that. Some of their achievements are just as nightmarish if not worse than pilot at those high ranks. I do eventually play them but I like to get pilot out of the way first. I was just starting on that when I hit 10, then again at 11. Muse keeps adding ranks so I can't get back to it.
Think 14 may be possible. Looked through it again. Some bad ones, but not all restrictive. If I can get past Firnfeld's 4+ restriction, then petition for Flayed to be reinstated, maybe. But 15...think 15 will take private game farming and maybe another year of gameplay. I cannot see enough low levels reaching the ranks needed to complete it. Maybe when Adventure mode comes out we'll have a 15 or two.
I still will play but I do think I will cut back game time. Knowing there is just an impassable wall in the way just doesn't make me want to beat my head against it. Think Muse will eventually roll some of this silliness back once they see it just not working.
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Something I'm not grasping is why you feel the need to "cut back on play-time" because you can't get to lvl 15 in a manner of days/weeks. For something that means nothing apart from a big number next to your name, I don't know why you guys fixate so much on levels.
Maybe that's me though and it's really an opinion. I haven't looked too far into them as I just get mine as I go. The only issue I see with achievements is how they (relatively) stay the same while the maps evolve. Defending on Flayed was much easier before it was a crazy king. Same on Scrap. Any defending on a crazy king or koth is going to take awhile.
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If you were less focused of chasing levels instead of having fun, then you'd have... you know more fun. I fully agree that a lot of hight level achievments are nightmare (literaly thousands of buffs ove cousre of several achievments for example - with the changes to firefighting, fire fighting tools are even more important to have, or extinguish 200 hull fire with chem spray, with reduced effectiveness this takes waay too long to extinguish fire with it ), and I'm up for complaining. The only issues with some of the complaints is that it's getting longer and longer to level up. So what? It's no as if there were any actual benefits to leveling.
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I'm a level 6 Engineer and Pilot since some months already, and it doesn't look at all like I'm going to reach level 7 with any of those. Because the current, comparatively low, achievements require things of me that don't fit my playstyle. I hardly ever play on "professional" ships that would require me to bring a buff hammer, with the newbie crews I'm usually with I can't go away from Spanner and Mallet.
I've got the Achievements up to this level because they reflect my playstyle up to a point. Ships I fly with, tools I use, maps I play on. Now they're mostly about ramming, buffing, flying galleons. I'm not going to let my loadout or ship be dictated by some achievement that only gives me a higher number in front of my name - I consider that fancy number much too insignificant for that. I don't get any benefit other than clothing (and I can obtain clothing in a much funnier way trough Dev battles, Tournaments, etc.)
For something that in the end only gives you a number in front of your name, achievements are really overrated here. I understand it can be interesting and catching to get them, but when playing comes down to achievement farming something's going very wrong.
Also, I think that the progression with levels isn't all that imbalanced. Yeah, the numbers look fantastically high, but being, for example, a level 12 Pilot should require a very long playing time. If that's the case, then the levels at least have a meaning in showing how long someone's been playing for.
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Yeah I think I'm just going to cut back play time now. I don't really see it as possible to reach the end. It would take all level 1s getting instant turned into 10s to do it. Just not feasible. I'm close to 13 so I'll hit that but I see no point in continuing on. Congrads Muse...at 670 hrs into the game, you actually found a way to make me want to cut back time playing. Guess its time to revisit my long neglected Steam list and see what I've been forgoing to play for more Guns.
I'm sorry but this sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. Are there people out there who actually feel this way? Are you honestly only playing right now so that you can reach the level cap? That sounds miserable. I can't fathom why anyone would play a game for the sole reason of reaching the max level. If I ever cut back my playtime, it'll be because the game gets boring. Realistically, I'm never going to max my levels anyway (or if I do, it'll be quite a while). I just play for fun and try for a few achievements here and there, because they add a different element of challenge. I can't imagine the achievements being anyone's sole focus of playing.
I also don't mean to attack you Gilder, you're a good guy but playing the game just to reach the level cap sounds more like work than play to me.
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On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.
There's nothing wrong with defend achievements. What's wrong is having to use a ****ing Galleon to do it (no apologies for implied language, I do feel strongly about this). Thinking that the "defend" part is the larger part of the problem fails to address the masochistic decision to force players to use the least appropriate ship for a CP game. It implies you're fiddling with the system without making an effort to understand the player perceived problem. And TWO achievements specify Galleon and Defend. Remove the Galleon requirement, it's easy to rack up Defends with any other ship. Change it to Junker if you want to specify ship type, it's far more suitable than Galleon for that role.
Actually, the main issue here is that the current capture event system has some internal inconsistencies and uses misleading wording. The "defend" event, as many of you have observed, is actually what might more properly be called "neutralize," switching an enemy-controlled point to neutral. The "defend" achievements were designed with a more sensible meaning of the word in mind -- actually preventing an enemy from taking a point you already control, a defensive role which a Galleon would be suited for. That event, which isn't actually called out in the current system, would be the enemy's failed "neutralize" attempt.
It was a question of either changing the achievements or fixing the events. Fixing the events was the preferred course of action, but unfortunately until now it's fallen by the wayside, so the inconsistency has stood. So in the meantime, while we work on it, we're just simplifying the achievements to the least ambiguous state to remove that particular source of pain until we can make the system work the way we want it to.
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I'm a level 6 Engineer and Pilot since some months already, and it doesn't look at all like I'm going to reach level 7 with any of those. Because the current, comparatively low, achievements require things of me that don't fit my playstyle. I hardly ever play on "professional" ships that would require me to bring a buff hammer, with the newbie crews I'm usually with I can't go away from Spanner and Mallet.
Oh, you can. Pretty easily, I might say. I went from 5 to 7 in engineer in probably less than two weeks, almost all of it flying in pug games. Was it with ideal loadout? No, obviously not, but it's very very doable.
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On a largely unrelated note, this patch will also change all capture point objectives to a simple "capture" while we rework our capture point event system to be a little more sensible and consistent. Sorry for the ongoing confusion on that one.
There's nothing wrong with defend achievements. What's wrong is having to use a ****ing Galleon to do it (no apologies for implied language, I do feel strongly about this). Thinking that the "defend" part is the larger part of the problem fails to address the masochistic decision to force players to use the least appropriate ship for a CP game. It implies you're fiddling with the system without making an effort to understand the player perceived problem. And TWO achievements specify Galleon and Defend. Remove the Galleon requirement, it's easy to rack up Defends with any other ship. Change it to Junker if you want to specify ship type, it's far more suitable than Galleon for that role.
Actually, the main issue here is that the current capture event system has some internal inconsistencies and uses misleading wording. The "defend" event, as many of you have observed, is actually what might more properly be called "neutralize," switching an enemy-controlled point to neutral. The "defend" achievements were designed with a more sensible meaning of the word in mind -- actually preventing an enemy from taking a point you already control, a defensive role which a Galleon would be suited for. That event, which isn't actually called out in the current system, would be the enemy's failed "neutralize" attempt.
It was a question of either changing the achievements or fixing the events. Fixing the events was the preferred course of action, but unfortunately until now it's fallen by the wayside, so the inconsistency has stood. So in the meantime, while we work on it, we're just simplifying the achievements to the least ambiguous state to remove that particular source of pain until we can make the system work the way we want it to.
[sarcasm]
.. ..and Capture is sooooo much easier than Defend with a Galleon.. ..
[/sarcasm]
Eventually, after a couple of months of asking we did get a definition of what was meant by Defend a while ago. It may be surprising, but on this occasion it's not the language error that's the problem. Leave it as Defend, but please change the ship requirement.
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I've won too many CP's in a galleon to believe it's utter crap in them. It's not the slowest ship, after all.
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I've won too many CP's in a galleon to believe it's utter crap in them. It's not the slowest ship, after all.
Winning and Capping/Defending are two different things.
I can win with a Galleon, but I ain't the one on the team getting the Defends/Caps. Whilst it may not be the slowest, it's certainly the most sluggish in the game - combining poor speed with worse manoeuvrability. Trying to get Defends on Scrap, I've even found that if your balloon is popped you can drop a Galleon down the back of that big plate. And then your stuck, until you can wiggle down to just the right spot, and get your balloon deflated enough to squeeze through whilst retaining enough lift not to sink. I'm getting extremely frustrated with this achievement, trying to do it the right way and not set-up a fake farming match. I find the suggested "fix" less than satisfying. Keep achievements for Defend, it encourages a more active approach to CP matches and encourages a team to try and push the opposing team off the CP.
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Well Scrap is different in that is has that sole point, making it more or less awkward.
I can win with a Galleon, but I ain't the one on the team getting the Defends/Caps.
Might just be play style then, because I do plenty of both in my galleon.
I will agree that when it comes to getting defends on maps with just one point, your options get kind of weird in terms of how to get defends. If you get the point first, then you'd want to "give it back" which isn't how you should be playing that. The point rarely changes hands often, so then you are left with doing these many times over.
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Could there have been a worse combination than Galleon and Scrap though? for Defends.
Any ship but Galleon, or any of the other maps but Scrap (Anglean or Refinery).. but to put both together is reminiscent of some of the default loadouts for newbies that someone gained such masochistic glee from..
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The only issue I see with achievements is how they (relatively) stay the same while the maps evolve
This is why I say this. Back in the day, when Scrap was 1800 points to take, no moving clouds or storms, and a bigger field to cap in, this achievement was much easier to do in a galleon. Now you have the same achievement, on a much different map mechanically, and it had gotten much harder. Not impossible, but hard to the point of asking "why has it not evolved as well?"
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Ok, ok. Ship requirements for the Galleon will be removed from all capture objectives, potentially subject to change when the capture event system evolves.
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Lol, not my intended goal, but it'll make some people happy I suppose. Thanks Jess.
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How awesome is Muse?
Salute!!!
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Woo-hoo!!
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Jess, you're amazing.
Just to throw my two cents in here, the reason why defends (as in neutralize the point) were so cruel was that if I was playing really well, the enemy would never even cap it. For me to finish the scrap achievement, I actually had to play pug games and ask my fellow captains to let the enemy cap it, so I could go back and neutralize it.
I basically had to stop trying to win a match many many times so I could get one of the earliest achievements in the game.
I guess at the end of the day, achievements don't matter; but it does feels nice to "achieve them" and I think I understand Guilder's frustration when there are ones that just can't be finished or done in a sensible way.
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well, the way i see it. you cant be "punishing" somebody with somthing that is completely optional :P yeah some cheeves are hard to get. But, so what? like, you dont have to do it. if you want all the unlocks, well then great, do the cheeves. i just dont get the frustration when, lets be honest, everyone is just gonna farm for them anyway :P.
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You guys demonizing me like I'm playing only for achievements and nothing else. If that was the case I wouldn't even play this game. For one, the achievements are way too deathmarchy for my tastes. You have to do impossible amounts of matches, kills, or weird combinations to get it and I see no point in investing time in a game which does that. I've seen games like that and they are stupid. I've never dedicated any time into them. They are games with bored designers who cannot think of anything better but to make achievements with some astronomical numbers. Achievements are afterthoughts in those games and the dev could care less about them.
But here it is tied to a rank, to a costume, to a title. For the love of the game, I want to see all that it has. I want to see what that next title is, what that next costume or unlock has in store. So I'm the bad guy for wanting to finish it? Fine, label me a Beater and keep whining. Take that away and it is just mindless pub stomping. No fun in that, I scare away enough lowbie pilots as it is. When I capped before, I didn't stop. I kept playing but I played my other classes more. I set goals. A goal on them was to hit level 8 since that was where the costume was. Now I guess it could be level 13 once I get back to it. My desire to do so has just been weakened with this.
This isn't anything unusual. I leveled in BF3 up to get my P90. Once I got that, my playtime decreased a lot. Heck I don't even play it anymore. Paid for all the expansions but have never played Endgame. That was my goal, to get my P90. I got it, played the heck out of it and enjoyed it. Ventured into other classes more but eventually cut back on time. Have absolutely no drive to hit max level in that.
What Muse did is basically putting a brick wall in front of a goal with a sign that says, wait here for others to catch up. They don't play the game as much and have no concept of how hard it is to get even to 10. I've done it and I do not see low levels committing to the game long enough to do it, specially not in pilot class which is required. Pilot is the hardest class but all the achievements are dependent on high level pilots. Now your Cogs players or other competitive players, I see them doing it but their play time is heavily skewed. Some I do not see except on weekends either. This leads to community arranged private farming events in the future. Which personally takes the fun out of things. Arranging victories or defeats with others just to get one rank. Come on.
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Hello everyone Captain Phoenix here, Thought i'd pop in and put my ideas in.
So has anyone actually bothered to say that for right now, THERE ARE NO HIGH LEVEL CAPTAINS TO PLAY AGAINST!
THE ONLY REASON WE CANT DO THESE IS BECAUSE NO ONE IS HIGH ENOUGH.
you say we are farming against noobs.
Well 1 who else is there to play against, the higher tier captains usually play with friends or members of another clan, so basically you are now just pushing more boundaries between players and clans. I am not part of a clan I don't want to be part of a clan but to accomplish the feats required to do these achievements require players who are mostly likely in a clan. Why well because they played enough to get experienced then from a statistical point of view played enough times to meet a clan looking for members one of the leaders of the clan thought they were good and guess what they JOINED A CLAN.
2 The majority of players are 3 or less its not our fault we don't have dedicated players.
3 No one wants to play a high level if they see stacked teams they leave so we have to go against each other and split up the teams so ...GUESS WHAT WE KILL EACH OTHER AND THAT MEANS WE DON'T DO THE ACHIEVEMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO WIN MATCHES AGAINST PLAYERS 13+ WITH NO DEATHS
SO THERE!
luv and kisses Captain Phoenix
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Worded perfectly Phoenix. Thank you.
In a perfect world, we have a mass of players all vying for high levels and dedicated to this game above all others. But this isn't perfect. What you have is only a few like me who are this dedicated. The rest are caught between multiple games and maybe 1 out of 50 really picks this up and goes all out like us.
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So has anyone actually bothered to say that for right now, THERE ARE NO HIGH LEVEL CAPTAINS TO PLAY AGAINST!
THE ONLY REASON WE CANT DO THESE IS BECAUSE NO ONE IS HIGH ENOUGH.
And...? This is the point. These are supposed to be endgame achievements, it's perfectly acceptable that they might not be possible to do yet, even if you're able to unlock the achievement. It should take a while, especially while there are still only a small number of high leveled captains.
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Sub 10s singing Muse praises while the high levels are fed up. Yeah that sounds about right. Till you've been there and done what must be done to get to where we are, you'll see this as a wonderful move. Once you get there, crewed with many great players who only played a freaken week and have never came back, you see the true insanity of forcing achievements like this. Your arguments are invalid till then.
I'd love it if we had a disposable playerbase with loads of high levels. But unless there is some drastic change in the game which keeps players coming back, this isn't going to happen. They ask about how to level, we tell them, then they whine because they don't see the incentive to level up. This is the problem when you have a generation which has grown up on games where leveling means weapon unlocks, or increases in the power of a character. If the leveling system was changed to a level to win system, we'd have loads more high levels in game because people would want to win. But those systems are terrible and I like that Muse hasn't done that.
You want mindless pub stomping at the cost of new players? That can be arranged since we'll eventually hit the wall and have nothing better to do. Yeah, thats really going to encourage them to stick with it. Just think about once Adventure Mode comes along and we have roving bands of pirates. Already a few wanting to create groups to do just this. Made up of vet players. Newbie cargo will be so theirs once they do.
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Gilder, you can get in the game and encourage the mid-level players to work their way up. That's what you can do. I've been happy playing Firnfield with you and Pheonix, because it's good craic and you're happy because you're working your way towards an active achievement. Personally, I have no active achievements that require DM matches - so these matches do nothing for advancing my own level. But I'm short of CP matches for several achievements. You guys play for achievements, I play for fun. Most players are playing for shits and giggles and don't really care about the levels. It's not a religion, there's no compulsion to dedicate yourself to it.
If you want some L10+ or L12+ competition, you're going to have to pull your heads out of your own asses and start thinking about how you can help get enough other players to the level where you can use them to advance your own level. Your current achievement is to raise the level of other players, not yourself. You can do it if you try.
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Pickle have you heard what most people say about levels. They mean nothing to them most people only get to level 8-9 through playing in achievement games. However by the time you reach those levels you see leveling as pointless and say that a level means nothing, the only thing that means anything is to be good at the game.
Also to say its OUR responsibility to get level 10+ captains is kind of ridiculous. As I have said before most people who reach that level are in clans so its hard as hell playing against them and winning. Or they simple don't bother to get that high.
Most of you know that I crew with Twinkie D-Lite and PzychoDude. Both high level players one of the only reasons that they did some of the achievements is because I persuaded them to do it. Now the only reason I was able to persuade them is because we mostly never fly apart.
So as I've said before you are pushing boundary's between players if you think Muse did the right move here.
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Phoenix.. you're shaving a gnats whisker every time you ask someone to help you gain an achievement by playing a map you need, you end up a tiny fraction closer to the point where you become blocked by a lack of high level competition. However, if you cooperate with another player you can probably get them two or three achievements further up the levels in the space of a few games. If you worked on your Gunner and Engineer levels as hard as you worked the Pilot levels, you'd be helping ANOTHER Captain to work his way up the levels.
Anyway, where do you want the level cap to be? Is fifteen not high enough? it is achievable, just not overnight. This isn't something where you can set out and get 50 ram kills in 24 hours.
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Pickle, can I ask you a question seems though you seem so intent on saying these are possible things
Will you try to get to level 13?
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If it comes through normal game play, yes.
But I'm not going to do it the way you have done. I'll focus on getting ram kills or defends, but not to the extent of an all-out offensive to get that one achievement fully completed in 12 hours. And I know that's the way you do it, because you're always onto the next achievement the following day.
I'm currently a whisker of L9, and with a chunk of almost completed achievements towards L10. But I'm doing this in regular games and for the most part with PUGs. Because I don't have a clan, and you'll say you don't - but you've a regular achievement chasing crew and an extended occasional high level crew you can call on pretty much every time you log in. That's as good as having a clan, although you don't want to think of it as such. You, Twinkie and Psycho have a higher average level than any clan I can think of, so you can't go blaming it on clans. Is there any clan in the game that has a focus on achievements and levels?
Without checking back at the exact achievements, you'll need four L13 Captains for L13+ DMs. You and Gilder is two L12s to start with - that's halfway there, and I know you're not the only L12 Captains although I can't think of the others off the top of my head. You'll be pushing through L14 before that blocks you. For L10+ matches, there must be over a dozen players that currently qualify and twice as many more that could be there in a couple of weeks with only minor assistance.
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Well OK you say that if they are available to get by playing normally you would do it. Well isn't that being a bit contradictory? We only want to do achievements that are complete able in ordinary games or did you lose us somewhere? I thought the name of this post was "stop punishing high levels" so by saying that you would only do them if they could be done in ordinary games is what we are trying to say.
Secondly being in a clan and playing with a crew of friends is different with a clan you can do your own games if I really want to do an achievement game I've got to find friends online and persuade them to waste there time doing them. Of course no clan is based purely on achievements what clan would be but if they need to do something how easy is it to ask a whole damn clan to help you out not 2 friends.
Finally there are only 5 level 12's to my knowledge and only 1 level 13. So if we really have to do achieves based around beating 2 level 13 captains then HOW? the only reason we aren't getting to level 13 is because of these achievements then it wouldnt be a problem then when there is a bigger player base and they implement these achievements then other people can fight us so that they can also level its up to muse to change this stupid thing right here.
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Phoenix, what impossible achievements are blocking you from L13 or L14? You're sat at L12 now.
The L13+ might eventually be blocking you from L14, but is really only an absolute block for L15 as I see the achievements.
L7+ games can't be a block, there's plenty L7+ Captains about. L10+ might be but there are enough L10+ at the moment and more not far off. L13+ is definitely a block but that can't be the one blocking anyone right now.
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Pickle one achievement or another can be completed before you do some of the others. what we are saying is there aren't level 7 or 10 or 13 we could do a survey of all the games and find out when the best possible time to find these people and start playing like that but I just want to play normally while feeling that I have accomplished something not just wasted another 20 minutes of my life
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Also can you tell me whether or not you understand our argument here because you don't seem to get our point here
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I understand your argument Phoenix, we've had it in-game as well. But I also understand the Muse perspective that catering to an extremely small number of players who keep pushing the level cap every time it's raised is a contest they just can't win. They either set a level cap and stick to it (they could have done so at L12) and then you, Gilder et al have nothing to chase after, or what they have done is set a really challenging level cap that you won't achieve over night. Or, of course they could just cater to your whim and increase the level cap every month with a bunch of rinse'n'repeat achievements that repeat what you've already done before. I'm sure that would bore you very quickly.
You're not happy with the option Muse has chosen. But to be far to Muse, I can't think of a single option that you might be happy with. I don't think you have an idea of a long term option that you'd be happy with. By your own numbers there are only six players close to being affected by this. Can the six of you agree on a better alternative?
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Yes I think we can and I have spoken to Gilder so we are going to post our views on how this can be changed we understand that they need a long term achievement basis but we keep saying they don't have the players to do it and by implementing these you are pushing away newer players (who we need) if they see these achievements then what do you think they will say? If we are complaining and we've been through the other achievements then something has got to be wrong.
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Clan or not, I fly at times when most of them are not online. Some of them I only see for competitive matches. Good chunk of the time I fly solo or with folk from other clans.
That said, getting all 7+ on an opposing team is next to impossible unless you just happen to catch them on. Heck even 4+ for the stupid Firnfeld achievement is pretty bad right now. It not only takes the opposing team being 4+ but it takes my team being all coordinated. Then having to do it multiple times without the other team leaving. I'm being held up right now by Firnfeld because of that. It is not as bad but its still blech. I'm going to have to dedicate a weekend during prime time hours and request only high levels join. Meaning any lowbie that joins will be told to leave immediately. No level 1s permitted. That really want you want? This is for a 3v3 which is even harder to get good teams for. Is this really what Muse wants their game to turn into? Total discrimination against new players?
And another thing...since when is it my responsibility to coddle and practically breast feed new players up to high level? This is a game, its not a kindergarden. There are no games that have ever been made which demand experienced players sit around and train new players. Unless of course they volunteer or get paid for it. I'm not getting paid for this. I don't mind helping those that want to learn and show proficiency but I'm not going to sit there holding a new player's hand till they figure out the blunt end goes on the damaged part. I have a right to enjoy the game in my own way. To me, that doesn't include coddling people even if it would be for my benefit. This isn't tech support! You get the crash course and recommendations from me, then answers if questions asked. This game is not hard. If people can't adjust to that then they need to find a low level match where they can practice. Better them learn there than being asked to do the impossible on my ship. Which they will be and I'm always glad to see swabbies which get good fast when faced with such pressure. Just wish more of them would stay in game.
You want to get to high level then you gotta commit to it and work at it. Learn from the best, and beat the best. Fight your way up like I did. No one coddled me up to level 12. If you can't take that, then theres a 6yr old soccer game somewhere handing out prizes for participation, go find it.
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Maybe it got lost in the noise, but I did agree to lower those level requirements already. The highest one is now 10+ for a single achievement, and elsewhere the highest is 7+.
The changes are live. Here's the log: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1604.msg29311.html#msg29311
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I think 10+ is reasonable enough. Especialy since the skill diference between 10 and 15 is not nearly as large as it is between 3 and 8.
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Look can you people not get it we don't have a problem with the achievements if say you release them when on average at our lowest amount of players is 500 but it isn't so these achievements are impossible you are just making it seem terrifying to new players and make vet players want to give up. When you have more players I doubt there will be complaints from the actual players who are dedicated. We only want Muse to understand they have released "level" based achievements to early on in the game.
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By the time they hit achievments with level requirements they are all experienced players (level 6). One of the Captains on the winning team in the latest tournament was thereabouts - think it's safe to assume that such levels will be experienced. New players have worse problems to get over, than level requirements for some achievments high up.
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We aren't arguing against the use of level based achievements what we are arguing against is the release of them so quickly.
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Sub 10s singing Muse praises while the high levels are fed up. Yeah that sounds about right. Till you've been there and done what must be done to get to where we are, you'll see this as a wonderful move. Once you get there, crewed with many great players who only played a freaken week and have never came back, you see the true insanity of forcing achievements like this. Your arguments are invalid till then.
This is a bit silly. That's like saying I'm unable to critique music because I've never personally been in a successful band. Sure, my highest level is only 9, but I'd like to think I'm somewhat familiar with the achievement system at this point. Saying my argument is invalid because I'm under level 10 is just an easy way to dismiss a point without actually responding to it.
I genuinely don't see the issue with having very difficult endgame achievements. The entire point of endgame achievements are for them to take a long time, and for them to only be able to be completed by a select few.
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Guys I think Jess just indirectly solved your problems. Pretty much all the impossible early captains achievements have been removed so we should be seeing plenty more 7+ captains very soon.
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Smollet you have way to much faith.
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I'm 3 pyra kills away from level 7 captain :P
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LOL. But in all seriousness you are a dedicated player.
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This is a bit silly. That's like saying I'm unable to critique music because I've never personally been in a successful band. Sure, my highest level is only 9, but I'd like to think I'm somewhat familiar with the achievement system at this point. Saying my argument is invalid because I'm under level 10 is just an easy way to dismiss a point without actually responding to it.
I genuinely don't see the issue with having very difficult endgame achievements. The entire point of endgame achievements are for them to take a long time, and for them to only be able to be completed by a select few.
Yeah but you nuts seem to have no concept of how difficult or how futile these achievements are. How long have you been playing? 100hrs? 150? Maybe over 200? I'm over 670, Phoenix is over 750, Twinkie is over 1000. We've been doing this long enough to know how much a pain in the butt it is to get achievements like this. How hard it is to find players even capable of doing this.
This is like talking to a wall. Phoenix and I keep saying this and you all keep demonizing us and throwing it back. NEWSFLASH!!!! THE MAJORITY OF NEW PLAYERS DO NOT CONTINUE PLAYING THIS GAME OUTSIDE OF A DAY OR TWO!!!! WE'VE HELPED BRING MANY INTO THIS GAME BUT WHAT DO WE GET...THEY DEPART AFTER A FEW MATCHES NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN!!! The community of this game is not healthy enough for it to handle level cap achievements. Specially not ones which force an entire team to be of all the same level or higher. If it was just one player on that team, then we wouldn't even be here.
Heck I'll end this argument now if these achievements get changed to ones where it only requires one person of a certain level to do it. Because then it is tough, but doable if worked at.
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Yeah but you nuts seem to have no concept of how difficult or how futile these achievements are. How long have you been playing? 100hrs? 150? Maybe over 200? I'm over 670, Phoenix is over 750, Twinkie is over 1000. We've been doing this long enough to know how much a pain in the butt it is to get achievements like this. How hard it is to find players even capable of doing this.
This is like talking to a wall. Phoenix and I keep saying this and you all keep demonizing us and throwing it back. NEWSFLASH!!!! THE MAJORITY OF NEW PLAYERS DO NOT CONTINUE PLAYING THIS GAME OUTSIDE OF A DAY OR TWO!!!! WE'VE HELPED BRING MANY INTO THIS GAME BUT WHAT DO WE GET...THEY DEPART AFTER A FEW MATCHES NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN!!! The community of this game is not healthy enough for it to handle level cap achievements. Specially not ones which force an entire team to be of all the same level or higher. If it was just one player on that team, then we wouldn't even be here.
Heck I'll end this argument now if these achievements get changed to ones where it only requires one person of a certain level to do it. Because then it is tough, but doable if worked at.
The entire point of my argument is that I do understand how difficult these achievements are. I'm trying to say that I think very difficult endgame achievements are a good thing. These achievements were also implemented with the intent for the community to grow. They may be near impossible now, but soon there will be more higher leveled players, and the achievements won't seem bad at all. And you might say "why not wait to add the achievements until there are more players" -- but I don't see how it matters when they get added. They'll get easier as time goes on and as the community grows and reaches higher levels, and that's exactly how they're meant to work.
I'm not demonizing anyone, I agree that some of the achievements are very difficult with the current state of the game and the community. My point is that's exactly the intent of endgame achievements and I don't see anything wrong with that.
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You say the community is going to grow OK fair enough sometimes we have a small boost in players from TGS cast or other things but since my time playing in December they player amount has only increased by about 20-30 on at the lowest time . This game does not have a fast growing community. It's a very niche game that doesn't appeal to a lot of people.
Also endgame achievements would imply that you get a big pay off like say the ultimate ship or the best gun. This is not the case the level 13 prize is a MASK and god knows what the level 15 prize is if they have even done one, there is no incentive for people to do the "Endgame" achievements like you say. I personally only do achievements so that I feel I haven't wasted most of my life playing this game with a group of people I don't enjoy playing with.
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Perfect case in point. Did a few matches on Firnfeld against lvl 4+, finally got some. But all were clan teams and people with mics, with one level 11. All losses, all non perfect victories. This is a level 9 achievement and it literally takes absolute pub stomping and stacking of one team to pull it off. After all the fuss newbs make about stacking, this is what Muse is encouraging. Gimmie a break. These achievements are flawed and you know it. Everyone I talked with in the match agreed they are full of crap.
This whole time the system could be solved simply by not forcing all the opposing team to have high numbers. Just make it 1 ship. Or maybe 2 ships for 3v3. That is plenty difficult but doable if worked at.
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There's a reason I've stopped achievement grinding.
The complaints of stacked levels...
The fact that many of the achievements then were just...bogus
The fact that skill comes from playing the game, and not buffing 150 balloons in a DM...
and that the only motivator is fancy outfits....
the remade achievements...really killed the only real motivator.
Now I have two accounts for the sake of not grinding up the levels just to throw off newbies...
fun to have level 8, 6, 5, and 7 crews not believe that a level 2 gunner could fire a lumberjack effectively...
...also fun to see that same crew fly and manage a ship like they've only played the game for three hours...
I have a dream where players aren't treated based on the number or title next to them...but by their expertise....
Where people talk about names....were people make stories of those names...where people judge base off those names, and not the number next to them. Where engineers are known for when to swing a mallet or a spanner, where gunners are known where and when to fire, and where pilots know that...it's not wise to ram ships with a lumberjack fish...........
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I just learn to ignore level stacking complaints. Most of the time I get them from new players who think its stacked and impossible when my entire crew is pugs, my allied ships are pugs, and more often than not they are not players I usually fly with. I can't help it if they other captains talk and listen. Or that my crew understands their tasks and executes well. Heck lot of the times the complaints come in my crew is mostly players who have only played a week at the most.
Yeah skill does come from playing, but some of the achievements do force you to fight with ships you don't know or like as much. Then you pick up new tricks. Ways to excel with one and ways to beat them. Don't think I would have flown a squid had I not had to do it for an achievement. Before that I hated it. After I took time to master it for the achievement, I loved it. Course that doesn't always work. The spire achievement...hated it before, hated it after. Bout the only fun I had was 3v3 with 3 spires against pyras/etc and we ripped them up with two long range engage spires and 1 cqc spire.
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Level 4+ are not newbies. They might not be very good, but they are not newbies.
Hight end achievments WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE FARMABLE. Perfect victories happen, but they need a lot of work. I've got a lot of perfect victories without stacking teams against 4+. Unless 2 8+ players on a single ship count. Heck I've had perfect victories even on training days as a pilot (trainers tend to be pilot on training days).
I'd love to get 100 Victories with 100% hull health and no deaths against 13+ captains, but I just won't happen for a long time since the achievments on the way there require me to be a gungeeneer instead of main hull engineer, witch is very rarely - most people who know me, prefer me there, for a good reason, to be on full, or it's just some newbies I don't know, and trust with hull :P There is a good reason why it took me about 120 hours to get from level 9 to 10 as engineer. Becouse I don't care about geting Achievemnts right now.
A lot of have very hard achievments (at least when they are announced).
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Exactly you don't care about achievements if you don't care about achievements why are you arguing about it. Also we DON'T WANT TO BE SPENDING OUR TIME DOING THESE NEW ACHIEVEMENTS. If we don't want to do them, the only guys so far that have bothered to get this far, WHO will? It's just a waste to even have these achievements if no one wants to do them why not just make the level cap 13 and be done with it.
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I thinh that is they wanted to realy wanted to punish you, they'd force you to get all those perfect victories with 100% hull health by requiering entire enemy teams to be level 13+ your team be made of newbies (1-3) AND done on Mobula in a public match :P
Edit: someone might actualy be tempted to implemented something this sadistic - I'll go on a kajak, and row across the atlantic oacaen and punch someone if this is done. Or alternatively bribe one of the US based players to go to NY and do that instead of me :p .
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So know you aren't even taking this seriously, well great, I'm glad this time was spent well.
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Do you thin I was happy when they added "Not A Scratch" Eginering achiement when there requirement was no deaths, 100% hull health and 13+ enemy captains.
they decreased the requirement to captains 7+ and dropped amount of victories to 10. I had no idea how was I going to pull this off. But they decreased the requirements for that one, as many many others. Extinguishing 200 hull fires with chem spray will still be a pain to accomplish.
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You said you didn't care about achievement's now you do which is it Mattilald?
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I didn't even check the new achievments until this topic showed up. I went to check the new achievments. Some of them were annoying, but not considerably more than before (buff a million more things), I meant perfect victories with increasingly harder requirements did worry me (i think those are the only enginering achievments with enemy captain limits), but rest of is just thousands and thousands more of the same I've been allready doing. I give a **** about achievments, but I don't think I have to do them now. What I took issue with, was that the notion that MUSE is forcing us to do them.
(only level I have to farm is from 7 to 8 becouse 7 is the lame title ("junior" something). I don't want to be a Junior Navigator (i belive thats captain 7 title, but that's an exception, something even more easily fixed).
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You aren't seeing our point Mattilald. Also when did Muse force us to do anything?
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Here is the thing, 100% hull against 13 captains is basically an arranged premade loss. It is not going to happen ever. Even against semi competent captains it just isn't going to work unless you are totally stacked and the other team isn't. You sit alone in a sniper boat on the far side of the map while your other two captains in 3v3 do all the fighting. Unless you are gifting level ones instant rank ups to 13...this still will never get done outside of private match achievement farming.
Really, if you are running against even one 13...you will not come out unscathed unless your team rallies to keep the 13 subdued. This is why these achievements should be redone so it only takes 1 player on the opposing team being of high level. With 2-3 players all 7+ it is impossible without arranged farming. With just 1 player, it is tough but doable.
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I have been considering changing the requirement to one high-level enemy captain instead of all -- because you're right, while farming by pubstomping is the worst outcome, farming by arranged loss isn't much better. This last change should address any lingering concerns and I hope put your mind at ease about the high-level achievements. Any other concerns, please let me know (but please remember to keep the discussion civil among yourselves and try to limit the all-caps shouting, because we ARE listening).
Thanks for the continuing feedback.
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So you want to get this achievement... You manage to find a game with a high enough level captain on the other side, and the other captain(s) are low-levels. As low-level captains are less likely to stick together or be effective in general, you manage to kill them without needing to engage the high-level ship. I don't really see that this is much different to pubstomping all low-levels. Maybe something like "all 5+, one 8+"?
Another way to "farm" it without needing cooperation from the other team would be to just hide and/or snipe while your team-mate takes the damage/gets the kills. If the enemy high-level captain had a poor loadout or crew, this wouldn't be too unlikely.
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That would be awesome if it just required one captain of high level. Thanks!
Sorry about the caps. Part of the frustration is from the fact I have personally tried to get many into this game and they haven't panned out. Also I've had a few players show promise early on, never be seen again after their first day. BFS has brought quite a few members in who were first time players and they've stayed I think partly because we got to them before they found a reason to leave the game. It would be nice if we had a healthy high level community with plenty of players to fuel these major achievements.
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So you want to get this achievement... You manage to find a game with a high enough level captain on the other side, and the other captain(s) are low-levels. As low-level captains are less likely to stick together or be effective in general, you manage to kill them without needing to engage the high-level ship. I don't really see that this is much different to pubstomping all low-levels. Maybe something like "all 5+, one 8+"?
Another way to "farm" it without needing cooperation from the other team would be to just hide and/or snipe while your team-mate takes the damage/gets the kills. If the enemy high-level captain had a poor loadout or crew, this wouldn't be too unlikely.
Then that's the wrong view on thing's to think that it's alright to farm for achievements. We don't want that we want the ability to get the achievement's without farming just playing in a pub match with some good players having a good time but also feeling like we did something worthwhile.
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I don't think it's all right to farm for achievements. I was trying to say that if the idea of the high-level-opponent restriction was to prevent farming/pubstomping to get these achievements, making it only need a single high-level opponent would mean it would be a lot less effective at preventing that.
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But there is no possibility of doing these achievements even with pubstomping. Also can I ask this what evidence is there to say that the high levels pubstomp.
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Yeah, you are missing the point Moo. There was no possible way to get the achievements without arranged farming. The difficulty of taking on an entire team of 7+ players, even 4+ in some cases, is astronomical enough to make it more attractive for high levels to just form a farming community where they arrange private farming matches to get achievements. But before that they'd have to overcome the desire to just quit trying.
Contrary to popular belief, high levels, at least none I know, do not go around arranging pub stomping. That just happens. One experienced crew can turn the tide in a battle. Which is what I stated earlier. I've had newbies cry stacking and such when literally I'm flying alone and often times with new players. The team communicates because I communicate, they listen, and then the match turns into a stomping. Now put 2-3 experienced crews like that together and you have Cogs level matches which require stomping to get the achievement. That just isn't going to happen when they can just arrange to trade losses to get it done easier.
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I generally fly with my friends, or my clan, so it's easy to gather high levels around me.
Even when I don't, I encounter a lot of level 7+, and a few level 10+.
I expect people will level up as I do though, and I think if you've hit 7+ you're pretty committed to the game.
It might be I play during peak hours or something, but I think you guys are severely exaggerating how difficult this is. The levels should loosely follow exponentials, right? I've spent a long time on level 8. These are the easy 'chieves. I really want level 9. But nobody uses harpoons. I'm not complaining, but if I see a ship 'pooning I immediately try to get a 'poon'd kill.
Jess fixed the requirements for the stuff that was actually ridiculous, but the community is still maturing. Give me some time and I'll play a level 10 against you. I do agree that a perfect victory at high levels is a bit...unlikely. Stuff like that I'm on board with relaxing.
I think Muse should take a look at the system. A hard level cap at 15 or something would not be a bad thing. I'm fine with not having infinite levels. I'm in favor of interesting challenging achievements, but I don't think they should punish people who don't fly during peak (or certain timezones) or with a clan.
I don't mind trading losses for achievements, because I still see this as a game and don't care about my statistics (I do like my rank going up tho), but that's only stuff like "harpoon people" or "ram kills" that I can do whenever and not feel bad.
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Plasma we are saying that they are now relying to heavily on people playing together at peak times which is about 4 pm EST so for an English person who is on during the none peak times which will be about 3 am EST these achievements are ridiculous. They cater for the clans who can get together and set up a game and as we have said before this is splitting the community. It will make 2 classes of players (I only include players that stay) the new guys who recently got to the medium levels e.g. 7 because they could do the easy achievements but then all of a sudden they have to play more specific games against harder opponents. Now by the time anyone has got this far out of anyone new to this game they will face us.
We are the high levels. The guys they have to beat if they want to get these achievements. However by the fact that we are already at level 12 and the guys who have to fight us are level 7 we will destroy them every time. This will make it even harder as it gives higher levels better practice and that just means the next batch who are trying to do achievements will suffer the same predicament.
There is no In between achievements where you only have to face 1 high level captain. This is all we ask now because its clear you all don't understand how much of a problem these achievements are.
You say we pubstomp but now all we can do is pubstomp you are making us the bad guys when we did nothing we don't understand why these new sets of level based achievements were put in place and we certainly don't agree with them
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Ok, the "all enemy captains" objectives are being changed to "1 enemy captain," although the number of matches required may change depending on the achievement. Not sure when it will be live, but it's going in.
Ideally this should encourage high-level players to split up and lead opposing fleets of mixed levels, giving them a challenge and still letting lower-level players in on the fun without all being on the losing side. Maybe in the future when we have a million concurrents we'll switch it up again to group players more closely by level, but you are all right in pointing out that that's not the game we have now, and players mixing in one big pool is part of what makes this game great.
If you hit any other achievements you feel are unfair or impossible, let me know and as always, I'll take a look. Of course, I know I don't have to tell you that!
Stay cool, everybody.
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That's awesome Jess.
Sorry Phoenix, I wasn't trying to accuse you guys of anything.
I'm lucky that I happen to play during the on-hours.
And honestly, getting pubstomped made me want to get really good at the game, so I wouldn't just assume it's always a bad thing!
But in general, yeah, you don't want to do it. I understand how matches turn into pubstomps though. Happens to all of us.
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Yeah they already said they'll go to a 1 captain setup. Check back, the argument isn't needed anymore.
Btw...rank 13 pilot is called High Commander. But there is 14 achievements to get till 14...ugg.
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Damn it Gilder why did you have to spoil it for me!
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I'm not too upset about these level restrictions, but they are dam near impossible for me to pull off. I don't actually see the point. I probably won't get them off of my high level opponents, it's too situational. I don't and wouldn't pub stomp for achievements, because I've been doing it regardless.
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Sorry to revive this old and not super positive thread but I just wanted to put in a thought.
Due to the recent changes in the mercury and maps and the direction that GOI is taking I think the kill 100 enemies at 2km should be changed to something else. It's technically possible but not realistic or fun to farm the newbies for it.
Perhaps something a bit more interesting like: Weapons master (with so many ways to kill, why choose?) - kill 3 enemies with 3 different methods in the same match 50 times, or Brinksman (the greatest victories happen at the doorstep of defeat) kill 50 enemies while your armor is broken.
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Ok, the "all enemy captains" objectives are being changed to "1 enemy captain," although the number of matches required may change depending on the achievement. Not sure when it will be live, but it's going in.
Ideally this should encourage high-level players to split up and lead opposing fleets of mixed levels, giving them a challenge and still letting lower-level players in on the fun without all being on the losing side.
Dominating matches against a high lvl pilot with a powder monkey partner flying off to la-la-land isn't an achievement, imo. I prefer the previous requirements as they're more meaningful and not impossible to achieve afterall. Especially with the recently introduced party and prelobby system it's easy to just grab the core players of your team if your matches run well and to look for a challenge with those guys (eg by joining a clan training session). I'd rather like to see the repeat count of those achievements to be reduced than the number of pilots. Another promising alteration of those achievements might be to use the average player level of the opposing team instead of the pilots level.
Perhaps something a bit more interesting like: Weapons master (with so many ways to kill, why choose?) - kill 3 enemies with 3 different methods in the same match 50 times, or Brinksman (the greatest victories happen at the doorstep of defeat) kill 50 enemies while your armor is broken.
Good suggestions! I'd love to see more interesting achievements which support unconventional playstyles rather than dull buff x parts objectives. Just make sure that you keep the repetition count for those achievements low - I regarded my 5 harpoon kills are a refreshing deversion. 20 would have been a nuisance.
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I'm kind of wondering what muse defines as a reasonable amount of time to finish an achievement. Being a player that is on everyday, for many hours, I have yet to actually finish the achievements that were changed two months ago. Two months to find level +4 pilots, and not for a lack of trying. It is just too situational. Also, the hierarchy of the achievements is so weird. I would assumed they would get progressively more difficult, but that is not always the case. They seem to be random difficulties, which is frustrating and confusing. For example, under pilot achievement: mastery 5/11 it says "win 50 matches against all level 4+ pilots with no deaths". Now I have not been able to get more than 4 in 2 months. The next achievement in that line 6/11 "as captain, spot 50 ships while unspotted (crew)". I could finish that achievement in a day. Why is the difficulty not progressive?
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The whole system is flawed. Hopefully it'll even out as the game becomes more and more popular though.
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I'm kind of wondering what muse defines as a reasonable amount of time to finish an achievement.
At the moment, I imagine they regard a reasonable time as long enough that they don't have to chase after the high achievers every week and increase the level cap as often as they have done in the past.
The problem is that a definite cap hasn't been set. Perhaps L15 should be the absolute cap with no more levels above it. Ever.
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See my comments in this thread: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1988.msg35125.html#msg35125
To reiterate here, the progression curve was actually roughly on par with our projections, but based on your feedback we're scaling it down to make the level cap more achievable. With the new curve, level 15 will be able to be reached in about the time it currently takes to reach level 13. The early levels will remain unchanged, while the mid to high levels will be noticeably faster and more regular than they are currently. These changes will be going live soon.
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Hey I'm only level 6 with 110hrs of play time but is there is a reason that achievements (or at least certain categories) couldn't be unlocked from the beginning? Specifically fixin, combat, experience, and maps.
A simple example is one of the engineering achievements for repairing 150 guns with a wrench. I think it's supposed to encourage experimentation with loadout but I think by level 6 you've figured it out. I tried loadouts with the wrench for a long time while I was lower level, especially while gungineering. Right now, however, I feel like trying for this achievement will let my team down. I either enjoy playing and play as a team player for the good of the match, or I play selfishly and bring questionable loadouts.
I agree at some point an engineer should be more of less forced to try a loadout of wrench, buff, ext or to learn the difference between ext and chem spray, etc. I've already done that and want credit for the experience without it costing my teammates.