Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Captain Blueberry on September 15, 2013, 08:40:53 am
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I think the Junker is THE most diverse ship. You can almost run any layout successfully as long as you have the crew supporting it. And here lies the problem. There is exaclty one tp organize a Pyramidion, but I feel like you have many different ways to organize a Junker crew, all with their perks and pitfalls.
So I'd like to ask some questions about the Junker I currently think of running, any feedback is appreciated.
Layout
Portside is meant for long range and starboard for standard brawling.
Front: Artemis
Port Top: Artemis
Port Lower: Banshee
Starboard Top: Mortar
Starboard Lower: Gattling
I ran triple Artemis yesteday, it didn't really do anything but annoy the enemy and I think disabling can be done almost as well with 2 artemis'. I also ran Artemis front, lower and mercury on top. I didn't like it, the small turning circle prevented any trifecta so I didn't like it either.
So I want to try the banshee, I put it there so the lower deck so no engineer has to take heavy clip with him.
Crew Layout:
Gunner: Heavy, greased and ammo of his choice. Spanner as repair tool
engi 1: Standard layout + lesmok
engi 2: Standart layout + lesmok
pilot: Hydrogen + spanner + lesmok, i am not sure about the other pilot tools.
The idea is that everybody takes the same ammo so everybody can man a gun and doesn't have to reload it first.
My main problem is currently, how can I organize the engineers?
I mostly piloted Pyras and Goldfishes before, I am used to run and hide if I am get engaged from the blind spot or if the engagement gets bad. With the Junker I simply can't. So I have to position myself and not rely on my speed, but how do I find a good position? What do I do when things turn out bad?
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2 things about the banshee, 1. you want to use greased with it, it gives you 10 shots that you can unload really quickly, so more stacks of fire and broken/damaged parts for the target, so having 2 on one arc is like a mini Hwacha and 2. theoretically its getting a theoretical buff in the upcoming theoretical patch, theoretically speaking anyway, so you may want to wait the 1-14 days till then.
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2 things about the banshee, 1. you want to use greased with it, it gives you 10 shots that you can unload really quickly, so more stacks of fire and broken/damaged parts for the target, so having 2 on one arc is like a mini Hwacha and 2. theoretically its getting a theoretical buff in the upcoming theoretical patch, theoretically speaking anyway, so you may want to wait the 1-14 days till then.
You mean 3 days?
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at PAX they said it was due out on the 16th, yesterday someone from Muse said it'd be out "this week or the next" so i'm just going off the latest thing i heard.
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at PAX they said it was due out on the 16th, yesterday someone from Muse said it'd be out "this week or the next" so i'm just going off the latest thing i heard.
It was originally meant to come tomorrow, but from what I've heard it'll be on Wednesday.
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Latest word from on high is Wednesday. As for your engineering layout, I suggest you put someone on front gun and hull (using the front repair trick), one on bottom guns and engines, and one roaming top for balloon, engines, guns, and the occasional hull run.
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Well, one thing I find strange is the Banshee is a close range weapon. The Banshee loses it effectiveness at decent ranges, while the artemis becomes less effective up close. Why do you have them together?
Second, yeah, disabling with the Artemis is just that, disabling. However, if you throw in a gatling or merc you could get some killing potential (or a luverly Pyra to finish the job for you :D ).
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The artemis really has an impressive range. Mounting one on the front of a junker softens the hell out of an opponent, leaving them vulnerable for more explosive weapons when you get close. They can't shoot back if their guns don't work!
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I didn't like the Merc as a Junker sidegun. I can't get a trifecta working, so I think it makes sense to either take 2 Mercs on the side or none at all. Merc + 1 Artemis wasn't rewarding in any way.
The banshee could be a cool long range gun too, with heavy clip it can hit stuff well. But yeah, in it's current state it isn't very useful.
So I don't know, 2 Artemis' seem fun, but I am unsure for the third trifecta gun. Maybe a flak? It as a decent arc and hitting with it is easy.
On a general note, I've found myself prefering the flak over the mortar as the general brawler killer, nimbler ships like goldfish, pyra etc. With the mortar the enemy ship could often flee out of effective range. Also my random crew was in general more proficient in hitting things with the flak.
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The Banshee is getting a buff from what I heard next patch, the build for my Junker typically varies according to what my ally is flying, though the thing is the Banshee is a somewhat long range weapon, Couple that with either a long range piercer or a short range one is up to you, though I have been known to run Carronade top, mortar bot, artemis front.
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On a note about merc/artemis: it's quite good to deal a little perma hull damage before you switch to brawling. You should have the Merc on the lower deck and the Artemis on the higher though, for more overlapping arcs.
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Since the patch, the Flak pretty much died for me as a short/medium range permahull killer. DPS is lower and the arming time really sucks for this job.
I dislike the mortar as a permahull killer because it is very unreliable in terms of dps on medium range.
What do you think, is the Rocket Carousel now a viable medium range killer?
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Light flak is deadly now. One clip kill all ships other than galleon and gold fish with buffed burst rounds.
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Well its good paired with a hades cause u add the high ignite chance but just to take it as hull killer i wouldnt say its good.
And actually mortar is nerfed quite a bid too. Just because gat has a bid less fire rate its harder to time well.
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Flak is an insanely good killer at 300+ metres. Works well when paired with a long-range piercer like merc or lesmok Hades. From my testing mortar didn't seem that bad close up. The spread's manageable and the damage got a bit of a boost.
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Yeah it is actually basicly the higher bullet speed with lesmok which u have to get used to. But the thing is the gat nerf that makes it bid harder. U have to time different cause of the 1.25 less bullets/s on the gat.
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That's true. I think it'll really just promote teamwork even more, since a single gat will now have a lot more trouble stripping armour.
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Since the patch there are a lot more viable builds for any ship. So I think the junker is now an even more diverse ship. So why don't we share our new setups and throw around some odd ideas?
artemis front, hades/artemis and gat/artemis side. Works fairly well as a disabler build. it doesn't kill as fast but is still a very fun ship to run.
Artemis front, hades/flak and carronade/mortar side as a general brawler.
Flak front, hades/hades and gat/gat side. I have no idea if this could actually work, maybe with a good crew...
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Since the Artemis got buffed I have been running a 3x Artemis Junker with a gat mortar side. If using a Hwacha is like using a bucket for fire fighting; using a triple Artemis is like using a hose for the same purpose. Finishing is still done with the gat morter, but assisting a teammate from long range and weakening an opponent before an engagement is a lot easier with an Artemis trifecta.
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Piloting and commanding the glorious Hohernzollern.
58 Matches played, 55 won (3 lost mostly because I was not piloting my Junker xD)
Kill/Death 179:38
upper deck:
portside and starboard Whirlwind Light Gatling Guns
foreship deck:
depends on the enemy but NEVER a harpoon. It's poison for my tactics.
battery deck:
portside and starboard Scylla Double-barelled Mortars
Crewmen:
Pilot (Captain)
Gunner (Premade and my first mate)
Engineer
Engineer/Gunner
At first I'm glad I have such a good first mate like my friend. He's sitting on the battery deck, mans the Scyllas and does the needed repairs for the main engine und the Scyllas themselves. Also he scouts what's below us because you often can't see enemy ships while standing on the quarterdeck.
The random gunner is taking the upper deck and mans the Whirlwinds.
The random engineer mans the foreship weapon and does the repairs.
Tactics and why I take this symmetrical weaponry
The Junker is a damn fast ship, heavy armed and got a nice maneuverability. It's weaknesses are his really long nacelle which needs a detailed briefing of your crew, and it's balloon.
You got mortars and a weak balloon, so take a Hydrogen Canister as pilot and most of your problems are gone.
I dont run a classic hitn'n'run tactic and I dont snipe. I harass, I annoy, I destroy. Know the enemy's weaknesses. A galleon for example. Why should I try to fight it broadside? I go up, fly straight to him, stay above his batterydeck's weapon's angle and then I'm free to do whatever I want. Pop the balloon, take out the engines, whatever.
As pilot you have a hard job piloting a Junker. You have to take paths no normal pilot would take, you dont only have to think in 3 dimensions (many pilots are only thinking in 2). Time is also your friend.
Your weapons are broken? Tell all your gunners to repair and get the hell out of the fight. You're faster. If there's something faster than you it's no threat. Prepare your fights, think of the possible ways the enemy vessel can take. That's why I take a symmetrical weaponry. You have to be flexible. "starboard weaponry destroyed? All men, arm the portside weaponry!" Turn your ship and fire. All weapons destroyed? Flee.
The Whirlwinds penetrate your enemy's modules and armor, the Scyllas do the rest. That's your tactic. Tell your crewmen.
That's my secret. A detailed briefing. Tell your crewmen about your tactics, your weapons and your thoughts. It's no democracy, but it's transparent. Let them know you want to turn right, tell them to man the left side, even if there aren't any vessels. Talk, always talk, but dont talk rubbish. Give instructions, give an intel, motivate them.
Do you want to use Kerosene or Moonshine? Tell your crew "I'm going to boost. Engineer to the engines!"
Your engineer can run up to the quarterdeck and your gunners know the engineer has something to do and they have to repair their stuff by themselves.
"I'm going into the fog on a low altitude. Man the Whirlwinds and repair the ship." You dont need to man the mortars if any threat only can come from above.
Anymore questions? Just ask :)
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"Crewmen, there are no better or worse ships out there, only better or worse crews and ships with different roles. Our Junker's role is to provide enough firepower to make the opponent think twice before turning into our direction...and to smash him if he does.
The Galleon's role is to look pretty and have a glorious death. And, by the Gods, mates...at that role it really shines!"
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Thats a standard build with the exception u have for some weird reason the gats on top. So they cant fire constantly.
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well...I dont read guides so I didnt know it was standard :)
i fitted my ship by testing infight :)
As long as the balloon is my weakest spot i try to be on a higher level, then the enemy vessel.
As i'm not on my guns i trust the recommendations of my first mate who said Whirlwinds on the upper deck do more fit to our playstyle than being on the battery deck.
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Thats just the killing meta that was there for most of the time. Disabling was just buffed in last patch so things changed.
Gat mortar was and still is one of the best if not the best combo to kill an enemy.
And its not said by playstyle that a constant gatfire is more effective than a constant mortar fire. The mortars job is to finish the enemy within one clip when the armor was destroyed by the gatling. So yeah a gat is more effective when it can fire constantly which is granted when its on the bottom deck.
Just watch some cogs vods or any other highlvl match and u will see what i mean.
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You should have your gunner/first mate play as a engineer too. That way he can buff the main engine and lower deck guns while the other engineers keep an eye on the top deck.
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I personally prefer having a gunner on the mortars below deck, since they benefit more than the gat from multiple ammo types. Of course, this doesn't really matter if you're running 3 engis like a lot of Cogs teams do. In that case it makes sense to have the gats on the bottom.
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There is a reason most cogs teams run trip engi or at least gat botdeck. U can use a gunner there. With heavy and greased he can optimize the gat at long and closerange.
That mortar just needs to fire when the hull is down. It just distracts the timings when you have constant mortarfire which will lead to a slower kill.
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Thats a standard build with the exception u have for some weird reason the gats on top. So they cant fire constantly.
don't fully understand what you mean by this..
And captain rico thats the ship my pilot uses... im his first mate when we play together ;) and its a beauty :)
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I mean that this kill oriented build is much more effective if u get constant fire by the gatling which is granted when its bottom deck or at least easier to manage cause the only job the mortar has to do is killing within one clip after the armor is down and this is done by the gat.
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You guys looked past all the awesome captaining advice Rico layed down.
Communicating strategy and tactics to crew as well as piloting maneuvers. I'm guessing by his levels he's relatively new but seems to have figured out things that far more experienced players are still working on.
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But you forget one thing about the mortar: the pilot who's steering the vessel getting hit.
You dont have to make much damage if you want the enemy captain make mistakes. They just see aoe hits everywhere.
Yesterday I tried playing with the gats on the lower deck and my KD-ratio fell significantly. I dont know why.
Sometimes you just have to try something and forget the numbers on the background.
In my honest opinion it's more important to to fit your ship suiting your playstyle than changing your playstyle by hook or by crook so you can pilot a "perfectly fitted" ship :)
I'm guessing by his levels he's relatively new but seems to have figured out things that far more experienced players are still working on.
And thank you :P
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As im not a pilot im cant talk much about this so i rather stay on things i know. And sure you have to adapt a little but still there is a reason many cogs time play the junker on this way. Just because its more effective if you do it right.
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Figured I should weigh in. I fly the Admiral Quackbar, a hearty girl that refuses to die.
I used to run symmetrical. I still would if I wasn't in the Ducks. However, since I now generally fly with a full team and not alone, I've taken to a ship made for complimenting kills instead of snatching them myself. My left side is the meta kill side, gat below, mortar above. My right so is my blender side, double carronades. On the front I throw on an artemis.
My right side is the complimentary side. The carronades give me a wide range of abilities. Knocking out the balloon is well and good, but what people often don't realize is a carronade can disable components effectively and aren't too bad for stripping armor. This combined with an artemis on the front makes for a mean disable. However, this isn't the deathblow to an enemy ship. My complimentary ship is. With a balloon down and engines barely functional my allied ship's power is increased. Suddenly every gat / mortar shot that would have hit the balloon is now hitting the armor. Its simple in idea, increases effectiveness with good crew, and has delivered me good results.
Generically speaking, just remember that Junkers are three man ships. With three people working together with well defined jobs, they won't let you down. You have great repair abilities combined with good firepower leaving you with a fantastic ship.