Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Richard LeMoon on September 05, 2017, 09:35:46 pm
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This question came up in Discord.
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I don't understand why they would be removed. Maybe if anything is to be done, brighten them up just a tick to make it easier for less experienced players to remain effective.
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don't remove them.
brighten up or remove some clouds from Ashen.
Maybe it's time to suggest some lighthouses with rotating spotlights again. ( but art, engine, blabla... I just think it'd look dope, dunno if possible but at least doesn't require new spotlight mechanics on ships)
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The only issue I have with night maps so far is that maybe one of them (can't remember which, but the VERY dark one) is causing me some serious framerate issues.
Oh, also one of those maps have skybox that is so familiar to Kiln Of The Last Flame, From Software is preparing a pack of lawyers for copyright sakes.
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Yes for removing bad maps from SCS roster, but no for anything else.
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The goal is not to remove them permanently, it is to remove them *until* they can be made fun. Take them out of rotation and begin testing different lighting and other variants then put them back in once they're actually fun to play and not just inhibiting interesting game play. And yes they are inhibiting interesting gameplay, I have to tilt my monitor just to see in front of me so I don't ram into random jutting rocks. Long range is entirely impossible on night maps, you can only shoot the spotted box you can't aim for specific components. I think they should just be removed until this can be resolved. Not permanently though as I do like the idea of night maps. I just don't like our execution on implementing this idea.
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And yes they are inhibiting interesting gameplay
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Long range is entirely impossible on night maps, you can only shoot the spotted box you can't aim for specific components.
But to me this /is/ interesting gameplay. I'd also like to slap a few quotation marks around "entirely impossible."
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And yes they are inhibiting interesting gameplay
[...]
Long range is entirely impossible on night maps, you can only shoot the spotted box you can't aim for specific components.
But to me this /is/ interesting gameplay. I'd also like to slap a few quotation marks around "entirely impossible."
You think limiting gameplay options is interesting gameplay?
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Reposting from chat
[7:02 PM] Urz: it's not a cool looking nighttime. it just makes the game look like a black smudge.
[7:03 PM] Urz: and it's not fun to play in the dark, it turns out
[7:08 PM] Urz: they need to be brighter and have more individual lighting effects. the ships should probably be lit up to be visible at the max render distance
[7:08 PM] Urz: which of course costs developer time and adds an additional performance cost
[7:08 PM] Urz: so the right answer is probably just to remove them from the game
Currently requiring me to jack up my monitor brightness every time (Night) rolls around, which is annoying.
Players with lower quality monitors/laptops are more heavily impacted, which makes night maps unfair.
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You think limiting gameplay options is interesting gameplay?
Absolutely. Limitation is a breeding ground for variety and creativity.
For example, the treacherous landscape of the city maps provide a more topologically intricate landscape than dunes, and thus promotes a different style of gameplay that is only possible there.
Ashen King presents a HUGE limitation in that you can only approach the control point from two highly specific angles, forcing players to rethink how they defend and capture the objective.
Visibility is a variable, just like topology is. I don't see the point in complaining that you can't snipe as effectively, when you can easily embrace it as an element of gameplay and strategy. It has an air of entitlement to expect to be able to perform the same exact actions on every map. To me, it is also /boring/.
I believe the night maps need tweaking to reach their full potential, especially where computer hardware is concerned, but I'm not about to ask for their removal because they're different or /difficult/. That's counter-progressive.
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You think limiting gameplay options is interesting gameplay?
Absolutely. Limitation is a breeding ground for variety and creativity.
For example, the treacherous landscape of the city maps provide a more topologically intricate landscape than dunes, and thus promotes a different style of gameplay that is only possible there.
Ashen King presents a HUGE limitation in that you can only approach the control point from two highly specific angles, forcing players to rethink how they defend and capture the objective.
Visibility is a variable, just like topology is. I don't see the point in complaining that you can't snipe as effectively when you can easily embrace it as an element of gameplay and strategy. It has an air of entitlement to expect to be able to perform the same exact actions on every map. To me, it is also /boring/.
I believe the night maps need tweaking to reach their full potential, especially where computer hardware is concerned, but I'm not about to ask for their removal because they're different or /difficult/. That's counter-progressive.
I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one. I don't think this encourages creativity. I think it's strictly limiting and unfun. I want night maps removed until they can be made fun. Like urz mentioned they look like a smudge on your screen and its no fun to play in the dark, I have to turn my monitor brightness all the way up just to find the damn help, Lueosi even had to make a second monitor profile to adjust color so he can see in front of him when he's playing night maps.
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I didn't realize people had issues with them.
My issue with night maps is that they are not dark enough on my monitor.
I can see far just like any other map. As long as the boat is in render distance I can see it.
If its the case that we all have varying brightness then yea, it might need to be adjusted somehow.
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Players with lower quality monitors/laptops are more heavily impacted, which makes night maps unfair.
Players with shittier internet get more ping, that makes multiplayer play unfair. Plz remove multiplayer.
Players with shittier computers have more lag making the game unfair. Remove medium and high graphics settings
Players with shittier headphones get worse audio maaking it harder to hear enemy ships moving, making the game unfair. Plz remove sound.
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Players with lower quality monitors/laptops are more heavily impacted, which makes night maps unfair.
Players with shittier internet get more ping, that makes multiplayer play unfair. Plz remove multiplayer.
Players with shittier computers have more lag making the game unfair. Remove medium and high graphics settings
Players with shittier headphones get worse audio maaking it harder to hear enemy ships moving, making the game unfair. Plz remove sound.
No...
1. Devs usually favor low ping players with their netcode. Like GOI. Games that benefit high ping (peeker's advantage) try their best to reduce it, and otherwise you don't have to play. Bad netcode games usually aren't successful because bad netcode isn't fun
2. The only times graphics settings are reduced are when there's no impact to visuals. For example, reducing unnecessarily high tessellation or polygons. "Optimizing" often takes this form and yet players don't complain. Devs often don't mention reduced values to avoid a negative placebo effect. I'm unaware of any game that removed higher graphics settings. Care to elaborate?
3. Again, I'm unaware of any game that sacrificed audio quality...for no reason at all? The opposite happens - sound and tracking get better
4. (bonus) You should've mentioned framerate limiting to prove your shitty point, not that I can recall any recent example (i.e. the game artificially locks framerate independent of game engine limitation and cannot be changed by the player)
On the other hand, it's common for devs to reduce darkness or change lighting effects based on player feedback
On my gaming monitor I turn on my Black eQualizer profile with a press of a button and see everything perfectly. On my integrated graphics PC with a (good) ASUS MB169C+ monitor it's too dark. Seems like a common complaint. Obviously it's better to fix rather than remove content, but I'm fine with removing the maps until a fix. I don't find it fair to subject players to blindness based on their monitor. Plus my crew perform better in the light. Win win
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netcode tesselation of polygonal tracking with eQualizer
Bro, all im trying to say is my mouse is broken and so this game isn't fair, because arrow keys are hard to use. Mouse functionality should be removed
Edit: also i though u quit after u wrote a thing about quitting whadda hek, jokes on me i guess
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Edit: Missed sarcasm, blame Irma
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Players with lower quality monitors/laptops are more heavily impacted, which makes night maps unfair.
Players with shittier internet get more ping, that makes multiplayer play unfair. Plz remove multiplayer.
Players with shittier computers have more lag making the game unfair. Remove medium and high graphics settings
Players with shittier headphones get worse audio maaking it harder to hear enemy ships moving, making the game unfair. Plz remove sound.
Network latency and graphic rendering performance are inherent factors in a competitive video game. While these factors can be engineered around to reduce the requirements or impact on the quality of play, the limitations are a result of real world physics.
Implementing brightness as a skill-defining variable is a deliberate and unnecessary design decision which will impact players differently: based on their monitor or laptop LCD quality, lighting of the room, and any afflictions on one's eyes that may impact said person's ability to make out objects in areas of poor contrast. Being forced to increase your monitor brightness for specific maps increases eye strain, another negative.
If there was actually some upside to the night maps, such as aesthetically looking cool or fostering of different tactics (as Ravioli suggests), then there might be an argument in favor. Neither has been the case from my experience.
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I'll pose an example where I believe the night maps positively affected strategy: buff and chem spray.
As Long Max stated in the spyglass thread, sometimes you only notice an enemy ship in the distance if they have applied chem spray or activated a buff. This makes it imperative for the engineer team to /not/ use these tools until it is clear they are spotted and prepared to engage the enemy. When that moment comes, they are now faced with a significantly tighter margin of error for applying these improvements in time for combat. To me, this is a fascinating dynamic, because typically glowing components pose very little risk, and may actually serve as an intimidating signal rather than a revealing one. Nighttime flips that upside-down.
The brightness for blackcliff or paritan seems to be the optimal level for compromise. More static lights similar to blackcliff may also improve play experience, because then there would be light and dark regions to intentionally travel to or avoid depending on strategy.
A hull-mounted strobe may not feel very "wartime," but may introduce a dynamic where you would want to jump from feature to feature to hide yourself, at the trade-off of your own visibility. It could also serve to periodically illuminate the immediate area to assist in navigating tough portions of the map.
I'm just trying to continue introducing ideas where night maps would require new thinking, as opposed to a flat and stubborn limitation.