Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Hoja Lateralus on May 31, 2015, 01:09:50 pm
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As a gunner I'd love 'some' way of getting on overheated gun, at least to load heatsink in, if it's managable (say, those 10 stacks). Suggestions:
A) Make a tool* for gunner which would allow (partially) to ignore the effect of overheating. For example some gloves that allow you to mount guns with up to 10-15 (or whatever) stacks of fire on them.
*inb4 "gunners don't have tools, they have ammo!", hear me out at least
B) Make an automatic ability of gunner to endure overheating weapons using stamina. It would work automatically when gunner is on/mounts the overheated gun. Perhaps some UI thingie showing us that gun is overheated would be nice too.
C) Make heatsink protect the gun from the moment of reload start, not from the moment of being fully reloaded. (You can either let people abuse it or just lock the ammo change - if you load heatsink you can't change ammo up untill it reloads properly)
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No.
We're in Airships that would need balloons ten times their actual size to actually be able to fly. We can use random bursts of magical power to jump four meters high. We literally repair crap by hitting it really hard with a metal object. By this games logic, the wind would cool the guns down instantly.
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......Yes please. Wind extinguisher confirmed.
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The game was like this after the first flamethrower nerf...it was incredibly stupid and OP because players just sat there laughing with 20 stack fires, killing you. Course before that, any flame would instantly knock out a gun. So Muse swung from two extremes before they eventually brought back the gun disable feature.
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I have been pestering the devs to use stamina to be able to get on a hot gun, and for heatsink to remove fire stacks over time. This would allow for gunners to do something about an overheated gun instead of standing around looking helpless.
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I think that stamina should allow gunners to use overheated guns. The issue is that stamina drains so quickly that it would only allow for very brief use. An option is passive stamina draining at 30-50% of normal speed while on an overheated gun.
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No.
We're in Airships that would need balloons ten times their actual size to actually be able to fly. We can use random bursts of magical power to jump four meters high. We literally repair crap by hitting it really hard with a metal object. By this games logic, the wind would cool the guns down instantly.
This may be the best way to describe the game I've seen yet.
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Balloons also magically deflate downwards instead of upwards cause its convenient.
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What if gunners are allowed to stay on overheated guns, problem is theyl get kicked out if they dont have stamina.
So if the gunner does have stamina on an overheated gun, it drains passivelly?
That way he can still stay on gun while its overheated. The drainage is half as much as one would drain the stamina manually.
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dumb idea is dumb.
oh noes my lack of preparation has shown a short coming in my gameplay. fix it muse. make me perfect by no merit of my own
I do suggest fires exponentially doing more dmg to the component to the part so it destroys faster.
also... disaster. there is a tool to prevent overheat. its called an extinguisher. If you're so scared of fires. Bring that over a wrench.
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there is a tool to prevent overheat. its called an extinguisher. If you're so scared of fires. Bring that over a wrench.
solutioned.
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Okay, fires breaking guns quicker I agree. If I can't put it out, let it die so I can rebuild it.
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Meh. Having yer gun on fire has it's benefits.
You are getting the third, retarded engineer for some time, until the gun dies (rather quickly).
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there is a tool to prevent overheat. its called an extinguisher. If you're so scared of fires. Bring that over a wrench.
solutioned.
Mm. Right. I'll just play Buff-Chem-Extinguisher Engi, then.
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Since the reloading change ive found it not uncommon to set heatsink loading, get kicked from the gun then hop back on when heatsink takes it down to 7 or so stacks, so they allready indirectly boosted the gunners fire fighting capabilities.
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Yeah all there needs to be is a heatsink buff and gunners have firefighting tools. Something I promoted not long ago as a solution to gunner viability. Then we got stamina so it didn't matter as much. But in someways it wouldn't be a bad thing to have heatsink be a bit more helpful. Not so much at doing dmg or shooting but just as a tool to help maintain their guns.
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Matthew Hartman<keyvias@musegames.com> Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:52 PM
To: Ceres Bane <ceresbane@gmail.com>
Cc: feedback <feedback@musegames.com>
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Hey Ceres,
If your crew is having issues with max stack weapons you may want to have an engineer bring a fire extinguisher, they can completely remove the full flame stack.
We'll definitely check out your idea though.
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Matthew is really insulting our intelligence...
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Maybe have Heatsink reload quicker?
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Maybe have Heatsink reload quicker?
That's all well and good, but then you'll have Gunners use Heatsink to quickload a Hwacha, then switch to Burst at the last second.
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Maybe have Heatsink reload quicker?
That's all well and good, but then you'll have Gunners use Heatsink to quickload a Hwacha, then switch to Burst at the last second.
Yeah, that's why this has bad mechanics: You can only fix something by breaking something else.
If you made it where when you selected an ammo in reload and were locked on that ammo, you could accidently hit the wrong button and have Lochnagar Hwacha. But if you made a certain ammo reload quicker, almost everyone would bring that ammo to abuse it.
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Heatsink can't increase reload speed or cause immunity during reload.
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I'm suggesting maybe it reloads maybe 5% faster or something, not a drastic change, and that would be the only factor.
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That would change game mechanics. It would have to lock in heatsink once you started loading it to prevent ammo switching. This would break mouse scrolling, but more importantly it would be confusing and require a longer description and no other ammo works like that. Muse doesn't want ammos affecting reload.
One option is having heatsink immunity linger for say 20 seconds.
Another is passive stamina use while on overheated gun.
I think the best gunner balance is 2 tool slots (might be unbalanced with wrench buff since stamina).
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increased fire dmg per stack is a nice simple and elegant solution (ideally only for guns). no mess. just a slight changing of values and modifiers.
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Hmmm okay I see your point.
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Some numbers for context:
Heavy gun rebuild with spanner: ~ 10s
Light gun " " : ~ 7s
Time for heavy gun to burn out: ~35s (20 stacks, goes up to 40s if you reduce it to 17 stacks)
Time for light gun to burn out: ~17s
Time to chem guns from 20 stacks to < 8: 25s
Using pre set heat sink saves 5 seconds of your engineers time and more if it stops the full 20 stacks from being added, buffing it to -4+ stacks per reload would improve that to 10s (because rounding)
Fire stacks are apparently better at gun disable than just breaking it. Imo they should be (if not as much as they are) because you cant stop artemis etc with chem. It wouldn't take much to make burning out and rebuilding better than chemming down in most cases although im hesitant to agree with any buff to fire damage
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Changing fire multiplier for guns would also affect engines. Currently the multiplier is .25
Fire stack damage per sec = ( 2 * (# stacks) + 8 ) * (multiplier)
So one fire stack deals 2.5 dps on a gun. Increasing multiplier to .5 would make a difference and sounds balanced to me
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like i said ideally this change in dmg only effects gun (much like over heat effects only guns).
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OK, so, gun overheats. All ammo still in the clip explodes if not chemmed, damaging the gun. Need to reload once the gun is cooled down.
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OK, so, gun overheats. All ammo still in the clip explodes if not chemmed, damaging the gun. Need to reload once the gun is cooled down.
This idea has merit.
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The noise would also help engineers know when a gun is overheated.
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The noise would also help engineers know when a gun is overheated.
You already know when a gun is overheated when you see the 1 flame flashing indicator turn into 3 flames. That signifies when the component has 8 or more stacks.
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Extirminator what do you think about increasing fire multiplier to components ex .5?
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Extirminator what do you think about increasing fire multiplier to components ex .5?
Requires too many reworks like changing the damage values of all tools like hydrogen, chute vent, tar barrel, phoenix claw, moonshine and kerosine. That's because they all deal base fire damage and then applied to the component with its modifier.
The solution of having the fire do more damage to guns so they die faster and are rebuilt faster than just waiting for it to die is a pretty bad solution. Because you are just making it more unbearable for gunners dealing with low values of fire, that would mean the gun will not be overheated but will just be getting damaged constantly until an engineer is able to extinguish it. With extreme cases of 7 stacks on guns, with 0.5 modifier you will get 25% of your gun's HP knocked out before you could repair it with a wrench again(considering you can't afford having one of your ammos heatsink) - severely reducing you DPS and rotation speed. Same with engines, if you managed to get 20 stacks on your engines due to having priorities like the armor or the balloon, and you have a pipe wrench, it will be impossible to out-repair and just barely enough to out-repair with a mallet. Throw into the equation a usage of helm tools and you say goodbye to your engines.
It would simply be too game-impacting to change the multiplier.
The problem discussed is getting kicked off the gun fast, and while reload your gun gets enough fires to not matter - even if heatsink extinguishes 3 stacks. I actually don't see it as a problem, because the recent change to flamer(the main source of fire) has nerfed it quite a bit. Only danger is greased flamer directly aimed at the gun - and if that is happening, you either haven't done your job of disabling the flamer, the engineer haven't done the job of chem spraying your gun or your pilot haven't done his job of avoiding the flamer.
Although, if you were to ask me for a solution I would go with one that was already proposed here I believe, in which the second you have heatsink attempting to be loaded into the gun, your gun will be immune to fire, and when the ammo is successfully loaded it will extinguish 3 stacks of fire(to prevent people from switching between heatsink and non heatsink to quickly extinguish 3 stacks during reloads.). I also believe that during the attempted reload, having heatsink in shouldn't be a complete immunity but more like a percentage decrease in ignition(for exaple, 50% less ignition chance) so to not make it completely OP.
This way heatsink could have an added benefit to be taken by gunners to have "active" while reloads to prevent a lot of stacks from igniting. Of course they will have to be on the gun at the end of the reload it they wanna put in any other ammo type other than heatsink in(like it was before with normal rounds).
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I said 'help'. I know about the flame icons, as do most vets. Most newer players do not. Stop thinking end game. End game does not matter as much as intro.
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I said 'help'. I know about the flame icons, as do most vets. Most newer players do not. Stop thinking end game. End game does not matter as much as intro.
It's like an essay, or perhaps even a good book: It doesn't matter what's in the middle, it has to have a good HOOK.
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I said 'help'. I know about the flame icons, as do most vets. Most newer players do not. Stop thinking end game. End game does not matter as much as intro.
most newer players dont even know how to change tools... screw newer players with this stuff in mind. the fire icon change should be noticable by any new person with any level of intelligence.
1 fire icon not so bad.
3!? thats pretty bad!
its not exactly the formula for the theory of relativity here.
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On the one hand, Richard is right, often the end game gets priority over early game, but Max does bring a valid point... New players who have not learnt/don't want to learn how to actually play the game can make keeping mechanics for them in mind difficult.
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Regarding the gun overheating during reload problem: How about when the Heatsink clip finishes, the fire immunity stays until the reload finishes and the current ammo type is not Heatsink anymore? This way a gunner can keep his gun fire immune for an infinite amount of time, if that is what is good.
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^
I think that's a better solution than immunity during first reload.
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Regarding the gun overheating during reload problem: How about when the Heatsink clip finishes, the fire immunity stays until the reload finishes and the current ammo type is not Heatsink anymore? This way a gunner can keep his gun fire immune for an infinite amount of time, if that is what is good.
Even though I'm rather against changing anything - this seems to be a fair and resonable idea. ^^
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ok this might be crazy... but...
what about... setting everything on fire?
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How about oven mitts/pot holders?
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What I get out of this is that you want to make gunners more relevant. I agree, they need to be brought up to par.
BUT, adding a mechanic that would make what is already a tough job for engineers even more difficult is not, in my opinion, the right way to do it.