Less about novice pilot required. More inclined towards level requirement for pilot tools.
No moonshine, hydro, chute, allowed until lvl 25.
At least then there's no fear of instant deaths from retard tool use.
Less about novice pilot required. More inclined towards level requirement for pilot tools.
No moonshine, hydro, chute, allowed until lvl 25.
At least then there's no fear of instant deaths from retard tool use.
Making an engi level requirement for pilots is a good idea. Pilot tools shouldn't be restricted because they're required to play. Two ships practically need moonshine and hydro is an absolute necessity. By limiting tools to those over level 25 it makes it impossible for low level pilots to compete.
Three on three matches, over and over again, where there was ONE novice level 1 pilot who didn't speak/type/read and readied up immediately with awful loadouts on his person and his ship and had no freaking IDEA how to play. Why does Muse allow this to happen? It punishes EVERYBODY, especially ME! :'(
No moonshine, hydro, chute, allowed until lvl 25.
Making an engi level requirement for pilots is a good idea. Pilot tools shouldn't be restricted because they're required to play. Two ships practically need moonshine and hydro is an absolute necessity. By limiting tools to those over level 25 it makes it impossible for low level pilots to compete.
And I have bad news for you.
When you encounter such a person you should report that person for being uncooperative. You should also ask everyone around to do the same.
Just don't expect any results.
Another thing that should be done are improvements to ingame chat. It should be more clear what's crew chat (colored text) and how to use it (make it more visible so new players can definetly see it). Same for voice chat. Right now it says "press, X, C or T to chat" (Y, Z for Voice chat). I made keybinds up because I forgot what are default keys. But it's pretty confusing. Three different keys for the chat and what's for what? It's just not very clear.
Going from "Yarr I'm a pirate swab the deck me hearties" to the chaos of 3 people yelling at you while taking hits is a lot for some people.
Also, contrary to you I usually TRY to teach, and as far as I remember you were bailing out immediately everytime you got a low level player aboard.
Just give us the votekick already
Off topic to the original post, but on the subject of Goldfish as a teaching ship, I think it's great. I've never had problems with it. Tell one engy to repair the right/bottom of the ship (turning engines, hull, right gun, front gun) and tell another engy to repair the left/top of the ship (main engine, balloon, left gun, front gun, hull when absolutely necessary). Just put interesting guns on each side and actually use them. Give the gunner a spanner. Have the gunner help the hull when red, have the engies help the front gun when red. I usually put a gatling on the right side near the hull and a flamer or carronade or banshee on the left side. Have the gunner fire the front gun, then phoenix claw to the left to use the right gun, back to the front gun, phoenix claw to the right to use the left gun... everybody gets some action :)
Also, contrary to you I usually TRY to teach, and as far as I remember you were bailing out immediately everytime you got a low level player aboard.
I don't know why you believe these two things and particularly that I bail with low level players. The only time I bail is if in the previous match a player didn't listen, or if in the lobby a player doesn't accept the recommended loadout (or offer an explanation). Level has nothing to do with attitude. Anyone who has played with me knows this so if you have an example I'd like to hear it but otherwise I don't want others to get there impression I don't like new players.
I get mad when people talk about trolling on goldfish so I don't wanna hear it, and I don't want people to believe the above quote unless you have any reason to validate it.
there it is again. That social stigma that vets are just conscripted teachers.
No. You play the game or you leave. Its the fact that they don't PLAY the game is exactly why people leave. I refuse to hold baby's lil hands and make him feel like a special little flower. No. You play the game like you're meant to play.
You play or you lose. You learn by going by how the veteran tells you to play and then guess what happens. That hwacha suddenly completely disables the enemy ship. You get that hull break from that side gat and you get that kill shot from that 2nd hwacha volley on your fish.
I will teach those who I feel have the potential to be excellent players and those that aren't are just training dummies to my recruits. I've been around novices and memorised every noob excuse to know which are the type to nurture, BUT I SHOULD NOT HAVE THE OBLIGATION/EXPECTATION to do so.
...
there it is again. That social stigma that vets are just conscripted teachers.
No. You play the game or you leave. Its the fact that they don't PLAY the game is exactly why people leave. I refuse to hold baby's lil hands and make him feel like a special little flower. No. You play the game like you're meant to play.
You play or you lose. You learn by going by how the veteran tells you to play and then guess what happens. That hwacha suddenly completely disables the enemy ship. You get that hull break from that side gat and you get that kill shot from that 2nd hwacha volley on your fish.
I will teach those who I feel have the potential to be excellent players and those that aren't are just training dummies to my recruits. I've been around novices and memorised every noob excuse to know which are the type to nurture, BUT I SHOULD NOT HAVE THE OBLIGATION/EXPECTATION to do so.
Non sequitur? Only a veteran can teach you how to kill with a goldfish, but veterans shouldn't have to teach....
1. This is a hard game to learn.
2. People finally reach veteran level, feel good because they can crush the regular players, but end up getting totally stomped by a full lobby of triple 45's. That's either because they are still missing some more critical bits that only other veterans can give, or they rediscover how hard the game still is when played against other players who also know what they are doing; (or at least know the same tricks as you). (And I'll be the first to admit that I'm still learning how to play this game).
3. This game gets known for its awesome community. And the community fights hard to preserve that. I think the teaching element is a fundamental part of that. Because, let's face it, it's currently the only way to make the game better for everyone.
I think this is also why veteran matches have not become more of thing. People finally reach veteran level, feel good because they can crush the regular players, but end up getting totally stomped by a full lobby of triple 45's. That's either because they are still missing some more critical bits that only other veterans can give, or they rediscover how hard the game still is when played against other players who also know what they are doing; (or at least know the same tricks as you). (And I'll be the first to admit that I'm still learning how to play this game).
you just went full AWKM[/i][/size]
you just went full AWKM[/i][/size]
I can't describe how much I love this sentence. I will be using it from now on. Thank you.
I know you apologized Schwalbe, but I'll say it anyway. Every time I've crewed for BlackenedPies he was very friendly to newbies and crew in general, giving them clear instructions and a lot of helpful tips. I don't believe I have crewed for a captain that would do better job at managing his crew than Blackened.
If you guys really want to get rid of the "problem" of Novices, just get Muse to stop selling the game. Then there's no way a newbie can buy the game, skip the awful tutorials and/or have no other Novices to play and learn the basics with, then "ruin" the game for all you vets.
If you guys really want to get rid of the "problem" of Novices, just get Muse to stop selling the game. Then there's no way a newbie can buy the game, skip the awful tutorials and/or have no other Novices to play and learn the basics with, then "ruin" the game for all you vets.
If you guys really want to get rid of the "problem" of Novices, just get Muse to stop selling the game. Then there's no way a newbie can buy the game, skip the awful tutorials and/or have no other Novices to play and learn the basics with, then "ruin" the game for all you vets.
Thanks for not contributing anything to the discussion.
If people dont wanna teach and just wanna wreck shit I dont think it should be against level 5 players or less. Kinda seems pointless after the first game. At least stay the next game and get on the same side. Something. Just imo.
I just realized reading my post that my mantra is "someone has to do it." But if nobody does it where does that leave it?
No matter how many in here complain about novices flying, acting entitled to wreck novices, stack them, and not teach them is inapprorpriate at any time.
(Actually, I don't know what's meant by "server browse" at all, which means I've completely missed something!)
Muse is indeed planning major, much needed improvements to the tutorial system and making the tutorial mandatory before jumping right into public matches. With any luck, that'll help some of these issues
I am still a novice.
My argument on obligation to teach instead of wreck novice pilots goes only to those that want to expand the player base and elongate the game itself for as long as possible. And seeing as most high level folks enjoy the game and keep coming back, it seems that is just the next logical step that needs to be taken in such a small player base. Playing the same people over and over cant be the future of the game can it? You may not have signed up to be the handy helper, but is it not implied by your participation in this game?
The same people that want to play this game hardcore can also be killing it by getting tired of helping. Take a break. Step away. But come back and try and help a few times here and there. I find way too much stacking. I know this. Doesnt matter that Im writing this when I saw 3 games earlier 3v3 with every high level on one side and the highest on the other was 14. Its gonna happen sometimes. I'm just saying it shouldnt. Helping in chat isnt the same as helping during the game. Ill get off my soapbox now. I see these things in game and I guess I want badly for this game to be above the rest of the garbage out there. There's a certain feeling you get when you are behind the wheel and in the skies with your crew that denotes extreme responsibility in a game. I like the idea of that responsibility to be with the community as well.
My argument on obligation to teach instead of wreck novice pilots goes only to those that want to expand the player base and elongate the game itself for as long as possible. And seeing as most high level folks enjoy the game and keep coming back, it seems that is just the next logical step that needs to be taken in such a small player base. Playing the same people over and over cant be the future of the game can it? You may not have signed up to be the handy helper, but is it not implied by your participation in this game?
The same people that want to play this game hardcore can also be killing it by getting tired of helping. Take a break. Step away. But come back and try and help a few times here and there. I find way too much stacking. I know this. Doesnt matter that Im writing this when I saw 3 games earlier 3v3 with every high level on one side and the highest on the other was 14. Its gonna happen sometimes. I'm just saying it shouldnt. Helping in chat isnt the same as helping during the game. Ill get off my soapbox now. I see these things in game and I guess I want badly for this game to be above the rest of the garbage out there. There's a certain feeling you get when you are behind the wheel and in the skies with your crew that denotes extreme responsibility in a game. I like the idea of that responsibility to be with the community as well.
Anyone consider the fact that veteran retention goes down with every sale? You know the people that LOVE this game? Why is this whole thing catering to a bunch of nobodies that are nothing more than extra pocket change for muse?
My argument on obligation to teach instead of wreck novice pilots goes only to those that want to expand the player base and elongate the game itself for as long as possible. And seeing as most high level folks enjoy the game and keep coming back, it seems that is just the next logical step that needs to be taken in such a small player base. Playing the same people over and over cant be the future of the game can it? You may not have signed up to be the handy helper, but is it not implied by your participation in this game?
The same people that want to play this game hardcore can also be killing it by getting tired of helping. Take a break. Step away. But come back and try and help a few times here and there. I find way too much stacking. I know this. Doesnt matter that Im writing this when I saw 3 games earlier 3v3 with every high level on one side and the highest on the other was 14. Its gonna happen sometimes. I'm just saying it shouldnt. Helping in chat isnt the same as helping during the game. Ill get off my soapbox now. I see these things in game and I guess I want badly for this game to be above the rest of the garbage out there. There's a certain feeling you get when you are behind the wheel and in the skies with your crew that denotes extreme responsibility in a game. I like the idea of that responsibility to be with the community as well.
Anyone consider the fact that veteran retention goes down with every sale? You know the people that LOVE this game? Why is this whole thing catering to a bunch of nobodies that are nothing more than extra pocket change for muse?
More like with every sale comes a huge patch that either breaks or adds something that veterans hate. Although I do know a few who refuse to play during sales because they can't stand the clientele that the game gets.
Just played a few matches with novice pilots - put up with more than a few awful builds, but they were communicative enough to be taught a decent layout (for a Galleon, at least).
I find it really fun giving the newbies encouragement and feedback. Even though we'll end up getting steamrollered, they'll learn a valuable lesson.
Just played a few matches with novice pilots - put up with more than a few awful builds, but they were communicative enough to be taught a decent layout (for a Galleon, at least).
I find it really fun giving the newbies encouragement and feedback. Even though we'll end up getting steamrollered, they'll learn a valuable lesson.
Just yesterday I was playing, and I met some very rude arrogant players. These, however, weren't novices, nor where they low to mid level, these were veterans with thousands if not tens of thousands of matches under their belt, throwing hissy fits in text chat and captain's chat. I could just as easily point out that due to the poor behavior of the veterans (I actually think almost all of the vets are awesome. I really hope this doesn't offend any one) that we should kick them all from captaining because they bully lower level pilots/crew. This is of course ridiculous, but it uses the very same logic that most experienced players use: Novices are bad, some people who are bad tend to be arrogant, therefore, all novices are bad and therefore arrogant. Instead of punishing all because of the errors of the few, we as a community must take it upon ourselves to educate this new addition to our player base.
Now that you mention it CP does need a level requirement.
(most of the rant)
(by which point I knew what meta was because unlike most scrubs I spent all of my novice time in novice grinding every class-and dont forget it was ALL achieve based so I graduated way later than today's pansy ass standards).
So the only way to maintain the stale mate was kill ships as they got near. Of course we eventually lost since kill points weren't a thing back then.
Though none can deny - how little time novices stay in the novice matches due to the current system, and seeing that they actually advice each other to tick-out the certain checkbox in matchfucker's options - is outrageous. Contrary to some opinions, staying in the fucking novice shows you - if not things you should know - at least things THAT SHOULD NOT FUCKING HAPPEN.
One of the main problem I had with novices was that they had voice chat off. Would it be possible to just put a small symbol near the name of people who don't have voice chat activated. By this I mean cannot hear me at all, I don't really mind if they don't have a microphone as long as I know if I need to communicate with text chat or voice chat.
(most of the rant)
What are trying to tell us? How special and unique you are? You are not. But to actually succeed, you have to know how some things work. And I don't mean rules, I mean actual mechanics.Quote(by which point I knew what meta was because unlike most scrubs I spent all of my novice time in novice grinding every class-and dont forget it was ALL achieve based so I graduated way later than today's pansy ass standards).
It's not like I was whining about the fact, it took me 100+ matches to earn my 3-3-3, learn basics and practice with a sort of... obvious handicap... and then suddenly with one fucking update I was out of novice, for like - 6 months. But I got over it, which I too suggest.
Though none can deny - how little time novices stay in the novice matches due to the current system, and seeing that they actually advice each other to tick-out the certain checkbox in matchfucker's options - is outrageous. Contrary to some opinions, staying in the fucking novice shows you - if not things you should know - at least things THAT SHOULD NOT FUCKING HAPPEN.QuoteSo the only way to maintain the stale mate was kill ships as they got near. Of course we eventually lost since kill points weren't a thing back then.
(which is probably the only fucking thing that should stay the same considering CP rules and mechanics)
These, however, weren't novices, nor where they low to mid level, these were veterans with thousands if not tens of thousands of matches under their belt, throwing hissy fits in text chat and captain's chat.
I could just as easily point out that due to the poor behavior of the veterans (I actually think almost all of the vets are awesome. I really hope this doesn't offend any one) that we should kick them all from captaining because they bully lower level pilots/crew. This is of course ridiculous, but it uses the very same logic that most experienced players use: Novices are bad, some people who are bad tend to be arrogant, therefore, all novices are bad and therefore arrogant. Instead of punishing all because of the errors of the few, we as a community must take it upon ourselves to educate this new addition to our player base.
One of the main problem I had with novices was that they had voice chat off. Would it be possible to just put a small symbol near the name of people who don't have voice chat activated. By this I mean cannot hear me at all, I don't really mind if they don't have a microphone as long as I know if I need to communicate with text chat or voice chat.
I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I would typically agree with you, but this is a TEAM game... and one bad player effects EVERYBODY in the match, not just that new and/or bad player. If this were Mario Kart or Mortal Kombat, I'd say, "Screw you, if you're awful, that's on you. You're only losing for yourself." But Guns of Icarus is nothing like those games. A hand-holding culture is necessary to improve the game for EVERYBODY. You're being selfish, honestly. And that's fine. But don't expect the game to grow or the quality of the player base to rise. We're all in this together. Start acting like it and do some work. Otherwise, don't complain.
Now, I might sound a little naive here, but maybe the problem isn't letting novices pilot (As this thread was originally created to address), the underlying issue here is just a lack knowledge in the new player base. Forgive me if I'm wrong here (I probably am) but it seems like the argument has gone a little like this:
I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I would typically agree with you, but this is a TEAM game... and one bad player effects EVERYBODY in the match, not just that new and/or bad player. If this were Mario Kart or Mortal Kombat, I'd say, "Screw you, if you're awful, that's on you. You're only losing for yourself." But Guns of Icarus is nothing like those games. A hand-holding culture is necessary to improve the game for EVERYBODY. You're being selfish, honestly. And that's fine. But don't expect the game to grow or the quality of the player base to rise. We're all in this together. Start acting like it and do some work. Otherwise, don't complain.
I point your point to the MOBA genre and tell me again if hand holding culture is necessary. The game is PVP, by nature the game is get good or gtfo.
Hell team sports in general. No one wants that short fat kid.
Just like every statement maximillion has ever made.I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I would typically agree with you, but this is a TEAM game... and one bad player effects EVERYBODY in the match, not just that new and/or bad player. If this were Mario Kart or Mortal Kombat, I'd say, "Screw you, if you're awful, that's on you. You're only losing for yourself." But Guns of Icarus is nothing like those games. A hand-holding culture is necessary to improve the game for EVERYBODY. You're being selfish, honestly. And that's fine. But don't expect the game to grow or the quality of the player base to rise. We're all in this together. Start acting like it and do some work. Otherwise, don't complain.
I point your point to the MOBA genre and tell me again if hand holding culture is necessary. The game is PVP, by nature the game is get good or gtfo.
Hell team sports in general. No one wants that short fat kid.
This is exactly the problem this thread was started on. This isnt a moba. PVP doesnt mean "git gud" Its just the culture thats been created in other games. This game should be ABOVE that. Thats the point. These statements youre making are toxic.
Well, I learned really quickly and was a great team player
This is about playing a cooperative multiplayer online game cooperatively.
the moba genre is heavily team based and when a player drags the team down the people that need to pick up the slsck are frustrated by the handicap forced upon them.I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I would typically agree with you, but this is a TEAM game... and one bad player effects EVERYBODY in the match, not just that new and/or bad player. If this were Mario Kart or Mortal Kombat, I'd say, "Screw you, if you're awful, that's on you. You're only losing for yourself." But Guns of Icarus is nothing like those games. A hand-holding culture is necessary to improve the game for EVERYBODY. You're being selfish, honestly. And that's fine. But don't expect the game to grow or the quality of the player base to rise. We're all in this together. Start acting like it and do some work. Otherwise, don't complain.
I point your point to the MOBA genre and tell me again if hand holding culture is necessary. The game is PVP, by nature the game is get good or gtfo.
Hell team sports in general. No one wants that short fat kid.
This is exactly the problem this thread was started on. This isnt a moba. PVP doesnt mean "git gud" Its just the culture thats been created in other games. This game should be ABOVE that. Thats the point. These statements youre making are toxic.
the moba genre is heavily team based and when a player drags the team down the people that need to pick up the slsck are frustrated by the handicap forced upon them.I'm really REALLY getting sick of this hand holding culture that just doesn't encourage people to step up and strive to improve.
I would typically agree with you, but this is a TEAM game... and one bad player effects EVERYBODY in the match, not just that new and/or bad player. If this were Mario Kart or Mortal Kombat, I'd say, "Screw you, if you're awful, that's on you. You're only losing for yourself." But Guns of Icarus is nothing like those games. A hand-holding culture is necessary to improve the game for EVERYBODY. You're being selfish, honestly. And that's fine. But don't expect the game to grow or the quality of the player base to rise. We're all in this together. Start acting like it and do some work. Otherwise, don't complain.
I point your point to the MOBA genre and tell me again if hand holding culture is necessary. The game is PVP, by nature the game is get good or gtfo.
Hell team sports in general. No one wants that short fat kid.
This is exactly the problem this thread was started on. This isnt a moba. PVP doesnt mean "git gud" Its just the culture thats been created in other games. This game should be ABOVE that. Thats the point. These statements youre making are toxic.
if you are saying that feeling or scenario has never occurred on this game then you are a liar.
yes guns is not moba guess what. did goddamn say it is? just saying its not is just a weak sauce counter point to the obvious point I was making where guns has similar structures.
is this discussion going to be continued with blatant denial as a talking point?
We are the ones who make the experience as a whole. Its not the game developers job to assist with this. Its ours. If you want to.
We are the ones who make the experience as a whole. Its not the game developers job to assist with this. Its ours. If you want to.
I hope that more of the community will share your attitude Dilley'B and Luharis, so keep posting your opinions. What should be done?
I propose locking each class initially and only allowing the engineer tutorial. After completion of that tutorial, they unlock the engineer class, and the gunner tutorial. After completion of a gunner tutorial, they unlock the gunner class, and pilot tutorial.
Always think of this when thinking about doing any kind of noob training...
https://youtu.be/-mcUPY0RMdU
Script A.I to be able to fly. Introduce reward incentives for playing with bots. Done.
The game is on sale this weekend, so we'll be seeing a player bump for a few days. Does Muse have any plans to actually retain any of these novices? It's a revolving door... it honestly blows my mind they have developed no retention strategy.
The retention rate to obscenely low. I remember Howard posted some stats a while back about play times. If I remember correctly, the average play time was 14hrs which doesn't sound too bad, but then you see that the median play time is something like 3 or 4 hours. The numbers are totally thrown off by vets and their 4 digit play times. The vast (seriously vast) majority of new players play for a bit and then stop playing.
Script A.I to be able to fly. Introduce reward incentives for playing with bots. Done.
1. Programming AI to move on 2-dimensional plain can be a pain in the ass at times (2 dimensional - actors move only on certain "floor" or however you call the said plain, even in 3D game), and you want them to code AI controlling an entity and progressing it throug 3-DIMENSIONAL SPACE.
#NotGonnaHappen
2. Oh, yeah. I want to see all those players having excuse to tell other players to fuck off off their ship because #IWannaPlayWithBots.
Also, #HashtagsToEmphasiseHowRetardedThisLookInMyEyes.
Script A.I to be able to fly. Introduce reward incentives for playing with bots. Done.
1. Programming AI to move on 2-dimensional plain can be a pain in the ass at times (2 dimensional - actors move only on certain "floor" or however you call the said plain, even in 3D game), and you want them to code AI controlling an entity and progressing it throug 3-DIMENSIONAL SPACE.
#NotGonnaHappen
2. Oh, yeah. I want to see all those players having excuse to tell other players to fuck off off their ship because #IWannaPlayWithBots.
Also, #HashtagsToEmphasiseHowRetardedThisLookInMyEyes.
1. create a point that the a.i float to.
2. it is a bot match. No human players involved. Same thing as practice.
Also, you're a dick.
p.s: please see DCS World for the shear amount of possibilities and hardships that A.I can create in a 3-dimensional space.
Script A.I to be able to fly. Introduce reward incentives for playing with bots. Done.
You could have asked for more elaboration if you did not understand.
I do not understand programming. I dont know how hard it would be to do. I do know its been done before. I do know its possible. If tbey can create this entire game im sure they could make semi competent ai to float around.
It does not have to be overly complicated. BF2 had a.i fly. They flew routes and attacked targets. They seemed dynamic because of their response to targets but it was fluff. They just flew a preset pattern and attacked when somethig was there.
You dont realize how much i would personally enjoy bot matches. Sometimes i just wanna practice basic stuff on real targets.
If I'm honest, I think the game is too hard. It has a high skill cap and a high skill floor. It takes so long to learn the game enough to be just good enough to play it correctly. People don't want to stick around unless they have a desire to work at it, and most people just want to play for fun and not bother with all the nuances of GoI, anD then they get crushed and have a bad time, and they never play again. I have no idea how to fix it, but I do believe this is the major problem
GOIO has this unique mechanic relying on teamwork and truly being a part of bigger machine. It is unique but I think it doesn't let create good stories. We all know that one damn clutch feeling from CS:GO or that pentakill from LoL, but GOIO don't have any stories to create and/or tell really. "I've managed to hit the hull in the last moment" doesn't count as a story.
This game is labeled as a simulator. That means studying and learning by reading, asking questions, analyzing, and observing. Simulators do not attract huge audiences. That is the reality of it.What? A) I've never seen or heard of GoI being labeled as a simulator, and B. Simulators are pretty popular right now.
I need to rant. This is my safe place.
I'm so tired of teaching in this game. Because I actually CARE about this game, I'm compelled to teach new players whenever they're willing to listen... no matter how god damn awful and ignorant they are... but the problem is I AM TEACHING THEM THE MOST BASIC AND RUDIMENTARY MECHANICS OF THIS GAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I am tired of it! Where are the tutorials, Muse! Where!? I'm at my wit's end. Seriously. I am tired of losing games over and over again as I try to foster and improve the player base when, to me, it appears that Muse barely cares about expanding and growing and maintaining the community. The player base should be the absolute priority in this game... and I increasingly am asking myself why I care to help this game when others, including the developers, care so much less, if at all.
"Hey Kamoba is a CA! We can swap ships with the Novice guy and stack against Kamoba repeatedly for a fuck tonne of wins! It's his job as CA after all." (Yes genuine occurance.)
Quote"Hey Kamoba is a CA! We can swap ships with the Novice guy and stack against Kamoba repeatedly for a fuck tonne of wins! It's his job as CA after all." (Yes genuine occurance.)
Well I do now!
*Cries in the corner of a dimly lit room.*
Did you not know what you were signing up for when you applied to be CA? :P
I'm now of the stand that the Pilot - the most important role in the game - should be non-novice in non-novice games.
I'm now of the stand that the Pilot - the most important role in the game - should be non-novice in non-novice games.
Cold bro. I wouldn't wanna be the kid trying to escape the humiliation of your wrath by swearing that I had repaired your engine... I recommend using a mouse so you can better see and direct your crew
Well, do the ends really justify the means here?Novices are incredibly frustrating, and jokes about them are funny in my book. Some of them are toxic to boot.
I get that people are sick of novices, and i understand that its a problem, but why is every solution we come up with, every idea we propose, go back to the idea that novices are terrible people with the intent the screw everyone over.
Now, I'm not sure how much sway my word will have here, as I'm far lower level than other's who are posting on this thread. but i do wish to caution everyone. The last thing this game needs is a Vet elitism to counter novice ignorance.
Just my thoughts.
Well, do the ends really justify the means here?
I get that people are sick of novices, and i understand that its a problem, but why is every solution we come up with, every idea we propose, go back to the idea that novices are terrible people with the intent the screw everyone over.
Now, I'm not sure how much sway my word will have here, as I'm far lower level than other's who are posting on this thread. but i do wish to caution everyone. The last thing this game needs is a Vet elitism to counter novice ignorance.
Just my thoughts.
Yes Novices can be frustrating, but equally if we create barriers and restrictions it'll do more damage to player retention than it would help...
Yes Novices can be frustrating, but equally if we create barriers and restrictions it'll do more damage to player retention than it would help...
Agreed.
On the specific subject of this thread -- I'd have never gotten into this game in the first place if I had been restricted from piloting. Gunning and Engineering are fun and all, but I find piloting is where my interests lie, and the role that brings gameplay I can't get elsewhere. It was the role that cemented GoI as a game I'd like to keep playing.
I'm so tired of teaching in this game. Because I actually CARE about this game, I'm compelled to teach new players whenever they're willing to listen... no matter how god damn awful and ignorant they are... but the problem is I AM TEACHING THEM THE MOST BASIC AND RUDIMENTARY MECHANICS OF THIS GAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I am tired of it! Where are the tutorials, Muse! Where!? I'm at my wit's end. Seriously. I am tired of losing games over and over again as I try to foster and improve the player base when, to me, it appears that Muse barely cares about expanding and growing and maintaining the community. The player base should be the absolute priority in this game... and I increasingly am asking myself why I care to help this game when others, including the developers, care so much less, if at all.
Please let me be the first to say: Welcome to the life of a vet.
Mr.Disaster I hope Alliance brings in great things and great players for Skirmish...but as someone who isn't especially interested in Alliance as a game mode, I'm not super convinced it's the solution, as I suspect it may just fragment the playerbase more.
ANYWAY.
I wanted to give an update. On Fireside they said matchmaker will restrict novices from searching as a pilot.
I wanted to give an update. On Fireside they said matchmaker will restrict novices from searching as a pilot.
Urgh. That would really upset me if I were a novice pilot.
I wanted to give an update. On Fireside they said matchmaker will restrict novices from searching as a pilot.
Urgh. That would really upset me if I were a novice pilot.
They're still free to play novice matches
Because as we all know ALL HAIL MATCHMAKER.*Salutes.*
Cold bro. I wouldn't wanna be the kid trying to escape the humiliation of your wrath by swearing that I had repaired your engine... I recommend using a mouse so you can better see and direct your crew
If you aren't looking around at your crew then you also aren't aware of their positions. Micromanaging is not always necessary. However, even the best crews with a predisposed plan may succumb to tunnel vision. Combat 101, bro. Leaders micromanage when necessary.
Totally missed the point. I am talking about where your crew is.
Ever have that crewman rebuilding one turn engine while the other turn engine sits at 10% hp? It happens a lot. This is what I say when I see it. "Smack the other turn engine real quick then rebuild please" Viola. I can turn again.
Also, tunnel vision (in this scenario) is not solely incompetence. It is a mixture of adrenaline and lack of training/practice/experience.
@Jamini
completely incorrect. If you want to experiment your meta. You do it with people that know how to take advantage of your crazy plan. Give criticism and actually understand the build you have. You don't learn anything from people too dumb to not shoot or prioritise something.
@Jamini
completely incorrect. If you want to experiment your meta. You do it with people that know how to take advantage of your crazy plan. Give criticism and actually understand the build you have. You don't learn anything from people too dumb to not shoot or prioritise something.
The amount of arrogance that drips from your post is exactly why I'd prefer running with a novice that meshes well, than a max-level who is an asshole. You've made my point startlingly well. Kudos.
You are exaggerating your 20 seconds.
To be fair you're both wrong and both right. It depends on if you're learning through trial and error (Jaminis point.) Or if you're end game competitive ship building (Jazzhands)
It depends on the context, and since the balance changes started it's encouraged newbies learn through trial and error as more guides become outdated and more videos become out dated...
To be fair you're both wrong and both right. It depends on if you're learning through trial and error (Jaminis point.) Or if you're end game competitive ship building (Jazzhands)
It depends on the context, and since the balance changes started it's encouraged newbies learn through trial and error as more guides become outdated and more videos become out dated...
Why would a game with an novice in it as a captain be playing in an end-game competitive match?
The answer is simple. Because from day one, you are playing at end game. Every player has access to every tool and every ship. With novices getting the defaults to teach basic game mechanics.
And when said novices get out of novice mode to use said non-defaults. They embarrass themselves by showing no understanding of what the game by design is trying to teach them. Frankly, if you area novice getting out of novice mode, you better be dead sure you can fight at mid-high level. Otherwise you got no excuse if you lose. You have a mode made for you to play at your level and you intentionally skipped it. If you can't hack it, theres no one to blame than yourself.
Frankly Kamo I disagree with your 2 ship building philosophies. There is only 1 philosophy. The noob one is just for those too lazy to learn from teachers, the game and the meta. Which is by far the most efficient way.
Because once you understand the mechanics, you do what bored vets do and create crazy builds with intentionally planned crazy results. With noob builds like double flak, you only get embarrassing 5-0 thats no fun for anyone.
To be fair you're both wrong and both right. It depends on if you're learning through trial and error (Jaminis point.) Or if you're end game competitive ship building (Jazzhands)
It depends on the context, and since the balance changes started it's encouraged newbies learn through trial and error as more guides become outdated and more videos become out dated...
Why would a game with an novice in it as a captain be playing in an end-game competitive match?
Winning or losing in normal deathmatch/cp games is pointless. Who cares if you lose? Have fun with it, learn, get better, and work out interesting strategies. Bring in old friends, make new friends, and help others learn. That doesn't mean don't try, but it does mean that we should step outside our box and screw around.
Also, just because someone is new and unfamilier with the game does not mean they are stupid. I actively seek novices to run and captain my ships, and the vast majority of them (about the same ratio of experienced players) are earnest, well-meaning, and pretty damn eager to learn. Just because someone is not experienced or good yet does not make them stupid, or even a deadweight on the team. It is far more effective to explain patiently to a new player how and why certain setups/ammo work, than it is to try and blanket-ban them from a full third of the game until they "prove themselves"
Side note to all: how about we all calm and chill. After all we're all on the same boat, trying to find a way to make the game fun.
I do still feel the tools already exist to avoid novice captains if one wants too. Vet games, comp games, and premades all exist already. Rather than adding more arbitrary barriers (which is a huge turn off for many people) I would prefer people focus on using the tools that already to exist to improve their experience.
The "PITA. (Pains in the Arse.)" very often these are the people who purchase on a sale, they follow the big YouTuber names and snatch up games from sales often, these "PITA" are often the trouble makers for a variety of reasons and could easily earn sub categories on their own such as Trolls, Swearers and Ignorers and more.. The PITA are typically the bulk of new players, not all are Pains on purpose or with intent, but their lack of communication or team orientation often makes them more a nuisance than they may intend to be...
What your suggesting already exists.
Each ammo and tool have a description.
I disagree with the idea of additional explanations in the form of a pop up. I would agree to an easily identifiable and navigable terms section. Or for the word "jitter" to be a clickable or scroll over(able) object that explains what it means.
Pop-ups are aggravating to me. My opinion is biased. I do not like pop ups. It is probably a deep rooted hatred from my early days of internet browsing.
one-time popout tooltip(with an option to disable it)
I think back to when I first played the game. I bought the game wanting to be a pilot. Not running around whacking things with a Mallet or shooting other ships out of the sky, but standing behind the helm, flying the ship through the sky, and all the cool things I thought a pilot could do. Yeah, I was a complete scrub when I started. I thought putting the ship on full throttle would damage the engines, and I had no idea what good any of the helm tools were for me. But I eventually learned, and I guarantee I would not have stayed with this game if I saw I couldn't even be a pilot until I played several hundred matches.
One of the main problem I had with novices was that they had voice chat off. Would it be possible to just put a small symbol near the name of people who don't have voice chat activated. By this I mean cannot hear me at all, I don't really mind if they don't have a microphone as long as I know if I need to communicate with text chat or voice chat.That would be nice. Although it seems like every deaf novice I encounter can't be bothered to read text chat either... Is it really that hard to read text chat mid-game? I mean, I'm an autist with ADD and I can do it just fine!
I mean, I'm an autist with ADD and I can do it just fine!