Messages

106

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 11, 2013, 03:32:22 pm »

I want to see 6 Scyla, 6 Gatling, 6 Banshee or 6 echidna build win in a competitive match (at least 1 of those doesen't work in this kind of trifecta). Anyone doing so will get mad props for it.

107

Gameplay / Re: Art meta is boring

« on: December 11, 2013, 03:25:38 pm »

And tghen we wonder why so few new players remain. Could Sammy and Byron be a bit nicer to new players?

Artemis spam is an issue this is allways seems to be the case when some new leong range meta is found. After all clans want practice with the new meta and practice against the new meta. Need to be prepared when you go into competitive events.

As for countering artemis just hope they aren't good with it and will thus not camp at the maximum altitude. Try to neak up on them, use cover as much as possible. Attack with both ships at the same time, use difirent approach so they can't switch from 1 target to the other easily and fast. Try to go above them, try to pop their ballons and get good with mobula. It's going to probably become the counter to junkers. Especialy artemis junkers.

108

Gameplay / Paritan Rumble changes

« on: December 11, 2013, 11:48:00 am »

Paritan Rumle has been changed to be identical to The Labyrinth - both have the globe in the middle.

I prsonally would prefer the bilding that was there before, the middle has a large coverless plazza now. What do the rest of you think?

109

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 11, 2013, 11:41:11 am »

According to Wilson's notes Artemis has 130° horizontal arc (65 in both directions). That means that artemis has vertical arc second only to Beacon Flare gun and better arcs than ALL OTHER GUNS.
Flamer 120°; Carrorade 110°; Gatling 100°; Scyla 80°; Echidna 100°; Banshee 120°; Mercury 30°; Hades 70°; Gun arc <90° no trifecta on Pyra  or Junker (you break Pyra's trifecta the easiest by dealing damage & going counter-clockwise around pyra). Artemis junker is te build that has the easiest time keeing trifecta - junker is 2nd toughest ship (a single gatling takes more than 2  up to 3 full clips clips to break junkers hull! - the reson brawling mobula can murder a junker is becouse 2 gatlings can murder junker's armor in 1/3 of the time with 2 gats), it has second best turning rate and you have to bonus of artemis having better horizonatal arcs than any other ship. Running tri- or quadfecta is always risky. Or at least untill the moment enemy is without things he can hurt you with.

So what if Artemis only works with 1 ammo type. That holds true for almost every light weapon.

Also: I have distinctly in my memory of used to having only 35 explosive damage a few months ago.

3-6 burst shots yes. That is 1 voley! from this build. You are instantly dissabled the moment you are in arc&range&outside cover. Besides you are on a junker. When enemy closes on you just turn on the brawly side and murder them becouse they can't fight back.

110

Gameplay / Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

« on: December 10, 2013, 04:39:47 pm »

I have tried this on Labyrinth. My blenderfish managed to die at the same time as enemy hwachafish. What happened was that both choose the exact same spawn point. I was pinned to the end of the match there becouse enemy goldfish just kept spawning on that spawn and prevented me from getting to the point (you do NOT let a hwachafish on your tail).
Point of this story: Spawning ANYWHERE is an issue.

111

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 10, 2013, 10:47:19 am »

Then the plan was flawed?

The flaw was probably the fact the sextuple artemis is unassailable if set on the height ceeling in the midle of open space with 1000m coverless space around them.

112

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 10, 2013, 10:13:11 am »

Not realy. Brawling builds destroy less components. The main focus is mow many spanner hits you can use before you have to switch to repairing with mallet. No matter wether you live of die, it's fast. If you get double focused, it's ussualy too fast to do anything about it - it's over before stress can acumulate. With artemis you have to ussualy deal with engines, hull and a gun (depending on the ship the amount of guns and engines can vary) - all of them gatting damage at the same time - non hull components constantly being down.

Wolfpack never let anyone have enough time to regroup and plan against their onsalught - for a while they were the best brawling team in the game. Agains snipers you can hide and plan. the fristrating part is when you execute plan as perfectly and the situation allows and you get dissabled and die despite of it, that's when frustration comes in.

113

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 10, 2013, 09:17:31 am »

I'm not whining over 1 lost matchup. I'm complaining what brawly builds have very hard uphill battle allways against artemis. Everytime we did win it was very close and very hard fought battle what could very easily have gone either way (most of them 5-4 and I allways fellt very stressful & at least as much luck as skill, and even then I needed help with faster rebuild on hull to minimise permahull damage). For example 5-4 victory on Duel in TSR14 we won simply becouse The -G-ent's Pagoda poped our baloon right at the end allowing us to drop bellow it fast enough to get out of flak arcs and rebuild and get back in to the fight (I was literaly, thank gods the poped our ballon - 1 heavy flak clip would have probably hit as at the point where we dropped below guns arcs). And we did train hard agains your type of builds hard too (just find the crorect team in Ducks and you'll get same effect).


I didn't complain on forums becouse THAT would have been in bad taste. We have been complaining over our TS for a while now.

We did use A triple art junker in a competitive match once (1 single match not whole bo3), we had a hwacha-merc spire. It was agains The Bully Boys on Northeren Fjords - they had a double marc junker and a heavy flak- merc spire. It was relatively close 5-3 victory for us. It was the first time I was a gungeneer in a competitive match (since Claiming the Fjords tournament where i was on the prya's front flamer), and triple artemis junker felt like easy sailing - we couldn't get out of our sking and ended up in a mid-range brawl witch we could force becouse the were the blue team.

114

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 10, 2013, 08:15:32 am »

Again pyra/mobula worked only becouse you weren't camping at the flight ceeling (or in te case of dunes becouse we had spit spawn -with pyra spawning behind you- at begining and prevented you from getting too entrenced AND you werent camping at flight ceeling all of the time) - We used terain much more than last week (mobula spent most of the time in the wide open tarain).
I'm not saying you are good aecouse of the guns you use, but gun's balance should be looked in tandem with available tactics. If we want the game to ever to become a recognised esport, balance should be considered at competitive level (casual gameplay should be considered as well, but in this case.

Long range teams, by the very nature of their builds force brawling centered builds to engage on the terms of the long range teams. In cluttered maps like Paritan you can sneak close to long range teams, but on open maps where you have several km or coverless space you can't sneak up on enemy close enough to be able to engage them before at least one of your primary set of guns is dissabled (ussualy both). - In other words you are telling me to go sniping on open maps - witch I have allready stated I hate (allong with [almost] entire clan of ours).

As for double lumbber build, I've seen MM completrely lock down double lumber gallen and hwachafish with merely 1 merc and 3 artemi (on 2 pyras - one with broadside artemi and one with merc artemis front) - and subsiquantly kill - in Season 1 Invitational Tournament on Paritan against Pollaris (and they had much much better LJ gunners than we had last sunday - Pollaris might not be playing a lot of competitive matches, but they still play a lot, their skill with LJ is still devastating).

115

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 10, 2013, 07:33:26 am »

Any ship with a trifecta will be strong. Two gats and a mortar on a mobula is a lot more dangerous, or three hades on a mobula. Nothings really changed with the Artemis. Sure its annoying, and it disables, but it takes forever to whittle the hull down. There are a lot of weaknesses to the build. The only reason people are now noticing, or now complaining, is because not everyone and their mother are taking gat/mortar. This all happened as soon as the game was balanced to create viable threats at close, mid and long range. Any nerfs to the artemis will put us right back to cookie cutter meta gat/mortar.

The issue is really with the players. They've gotten so used to charging straight at ships with impunity for a close range brawl. You've got to get out of that mind set and adapt. There is plenty of competitive material from the last few weeks showing triple arti junkers being used, and many times of them being wrecked. Every time they were wrecked, it was due to smart teams doing smart things. And likewise, the artemis is working really well with the Gents because we stay immobile, we go high, and we use open lanes to shoot. We could change guns, and change tactics anytime and still succeed. It's about knowing what to do with your build, the issue isn't the gun itself.

With any ship, any build, look at it's weaknesses. An artemis can't shoot up, and it needs time to target areas. If it's just hitting the balloon or hull it's really doing nothing. You need to use terrain, or different elevations. Go high, take a mobula. Stay out of 1330 meters, take a lumberjack. Go fast with a squid, take a carronade. There are proven easy ways of defeating this build, and it's up to each player to make his wins happen. Lamenting over the fact that you can't just shrug off artemises as you charge in a straight line at them isn't going to help.

How am I supposed to go up and above the triple art junker when you are camping at the flight celing? Literaly the only way we could get any kills on you was by ramming you to death. and we used EVERY bit of cover the Fjords provides to try and get close to you.
The only reason we managed to "wreck" (as you expresed yourself) your build in TSR16 becouse you weren't camping at flight ceeling. You need expert LJ gunners to hit targets hiding behind cover at LJ's max range, and our both Gunners have been absent last 2 weekends. Artemis on the other side is so easy that even I hit 4/5 shots on moving targets.

I'm also sick of getting advice to snipe, to deal with the crap like this. I hate playing sniping matches. I hate repairing, I hate piloting, and I hate gunning in sniper matches. As if sniping wasn't entrenced in the meta enough.

Mobula needs to use it's everical maneuverability to keep out of enemy arcs, becouse it's slow and can't turn very well. If enemy is at the bottom of the map and is sporting carrorades or at the top of the map and sporting LJ or Artemis you can't break arcs verticaly, and then you are forced to either merc with 2 mercs or are huge tasty target. Squid has great horizontal maneuverability, but is somewaht lacking in vertical maneuverability + carrorade puts you into artemis arcs of fire. Squid has as hard time killing anyone alone as has triple art junker. Squid can be a distraction, but in high level play unless you force the OTHER junker to deal with something else, the other junker can gat artemis the squid easily enough (or carrorade artemis - squids have poor armor, you can blast thru their armor realy realy fast - heatsink is invaluable whaen it comes to dealing with squids). Dealing with entrencehd sextuple art build is possible, but enything we have had come up with so far is a soft cunter as opposed to a hard counter. It's a hard uphill struggle.

116

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 09, 2013, 11:02:51 pm »

Heavy guns have slow turning rate in comparison to (most) light guns and narrower arcs than most light guns. The only other light sniping gun is merc that has limited arcs and turning speed - thus impractical in close range. The same thing that allows junkers to use 3 artemi at the same time makes it good at closerange.

People defend it that artemis lacks killing power. If you let enemy get into gatling range with all guns intact, then yes you are effed. But then you are doing something wrong. If you do septuple artemis build right, enemy won't get close to you without loosing all or most components [oustide armor and baloon]. If you keep enemy dissabled you don't need to kill him fast.

I question the balance of a weapon that you can take sextuple into 2v2 and win competitive matches as a rule.

117

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 09, 2013, 07:55:19 pm »

I agree 1 artemis is not a problem. The main problem I have is that it's much too easy to get trifecta with that gun due to it's supperior horizontal arcs.

If you are going into a match where both teams have a lot Artemi, lesmok on at least 1 ship can be the diffirence ( remember being outranged yesterday on my Artemis in TSR in match 2 against Gents by their Artemi.

I'm quite frankly geting realy sick of this Artemis spam. It feels like those 1 or 2 weeks when Hwacha was ridicilusly OP and could clear literaly ALL the components except ballon in 1 barage on ANY ship regardles of ammo type loaded (hevy clip was the exception under 800m range, but even then it dissabled half of the ship)-rebuild times had been doubled in the same patch.

118

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 09, 2013, 08:31:33 am »

Lol I thought this is Atremis thread, not achievments thread.

119

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 03, 2013, 11:32:04 pm »

We wanted to bring a lumber spire to Paritan last sunday against gents but our LJ gunners were not awailable so we had to make do with a bit more simple heavy gun

120

Gameplay / Re: Artemis

« on: December 03, 2013, 11:23:10 am »

Mobula's double gat + whatever explosive damage works well agains junkers. Single gat deals armor damage to junker too slow (jitter => gat misses more shots on junkers slim profile) and it takes a single gatling 2-3 clips to destroy armor. Double gat deals so much more damage that it only dakes 2x 1/2-3/4 gat clip to kill the same armor - i think junker's armor can last RELATIVELY close to galleon's armor against gatling). As a brawler you have to kill armor as fast as possible.