Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kestril on May 21, 2013, 01:35:52 pm
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I'm interested in the community's opinion on this. I know "good" is subjective, and doesn't necessarily mean "wins matches" I guess we can narrow it down to what sort of captain you like to crew under the best.
As for me, a couple of bullet points, in no particular order:
-I prefer captains who can admit their mistakes, and are not harsh on their crew when a mistake is made. Getting upset rarely accomplishes anything, and, at least for the match, we're all literally in the same boat.
-I also prefer captains that have at some awareness about the situation around them. It's troubling when your squid flies right into a galleon's dual-manticore broadside for the third time in a row xD
-I also like captains that switch the loadouts up for the sake of fun. Doing something ridiculous ends in awesome, good or bad. Like a harpoon Spire with a manticore, or a squid with moonshine and impact bumpers. Sure, they may not be the most effective, but they ARE a blast to crew. Instead of gat/flaking another ship to death for the umpteenth time in a row.
-I really like captains who let the crew know what they are doing, even if it's just the general idea of "we are going to hit this junker from the left." I feel like I know what's going on and am better able to respond as a crew member.
How about you guys?
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Agreed, all of it.
It's not like we're fighting for real or anything, so losing isn't really a problem. We aren't getting paid to crew people's ships, we're there because it's (hopefully) enjoyable. So the easier the captain is to get on with, the better really. Being able to do your "job" effectively is good too though, and good captains make that much easier for the whole crew. While I don't think using voice is necessary to be a good crew member (it can be useful for gunners though), I think it's pretty essential to be a "good" captain. The captain may have some amazing strategy, but if the rest of the crew (and the other team captains) don't know it before it's too late, it's unlikely to work. It also makes it feel more like you are all part of a team, rather than robots allowing the captains to do the "important" stuff.
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The best captain? I'll bullet down something from my little experience, although you did cover most of it already:
- At the beginning of a match, divides roles but not too strictly. It helps the engineers to know when to maintain/buff their lot and when to help the other engineer. Also, tells what the loadout is for, like "Yeah, I went for sniper build, so feel free to potshot all you can."
-Tells you what target he is aiming for, which guns to man and when he is going to use some pilot-skill. Generally being informative about what he is doing, even if with three words. Gunning is immensely helped when you are warned of a quick turn and that you should man the other gun.
- Knows his surroundings, or asks the crew to spot something he can't see.
- Acknowledges good engineering work when he gets it aboard. I like being the gunner and his work is pretty visible, but it is easy to forget the two other guys running around arms flailing to keep the ship afloat.
-Has some humor in what he/she does. It is always nice to hear the captain giggle after the other one blows apart, and some simple comments like "Well, I didn't see that one coming.", "Woops" and "Sic em!" create an certain atmosphere.
-FLIES the ship, not flails it. I hate it when the pilot does sudden turns and dives when I am trying to land a shot. Also, knows the lines-of-fire of his weapons, so he can position the ship correctly. Of course, telling us what he is doing helps.
All in all, I like a clearly communicating captain over a mute one.
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Ability to communicate with team captains and help coordinate attacks.
Ability to communicate with team and help coordinate shots.
Ability to understand the ship's limits.
Ability to understand the gun's limits on the ship.
Ability to see when a teammate needs help and able to draw fire away, whether the means are disabling, or brute force.
Must have a good singing voice.
Must have played 10 days while drunk.
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yelling lots of yelling ..right ?
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That's what I always thought, must be doing it wrong.
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What makes a good captain?
A good crew... :D
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Must have played 10 days while drunk.
Heh.
(http://www.hilaryfleming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_2947.jpg)
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People have brought up communication quite a few times so I will expand on another point partially brought up by Letus pertaining to understanding your ship and understanding your crew.
You need to understand your ship and have a clear plan on how you will use your ship to defeat your enemy. Know your guns. How many can you train on your enemy? How well can you stay in firing arc? Do your two main guns complement each other (such as gat/flak or heavy flak/lumberjack). Can you bring up a third gun, if so does it further complement like another gatling gun to a gat/flak combo, or does it supplement like throwing a carousel or flamer into the gat flak? Can you sustain the loss of repairs for that third gun? Do you need to focus on repairs and lose all your guns?
Not only do you need to know the answer to all these questions (and more) you need to understand the implications of these in a quick enough fashion so you can then pass on the relevant information to your crew. This is where a good crew comes in. When I have Veyka and Silas on my ship as my primary engineer and secondary engineer, they know what they are doing. Veyka is able to take over answering the question concerning shooting the thrid gun or repairing the hull. Sylas is able to take over questions of shooting the knockout guns or repairing my engines.
But what is important for me to remember is I don't always have them. I can't assume a new engineer on my ship will understand my fly style (abuser of kerosene and tar). Therefore I have to make sure I take time at the begining of my game to explain not only what someone's role is but why their role is important.
If my below deck gunner doesn't understand the chain gun has to keep firing, that is because I failed to explain why I need that constant armor stripping. If my primary engineer doesn't understand that the third gun is a supplemental gun and therefore is a lower priority than hull repair, the once again I failed to explain the nature of the third gun on my ship. If my back engineer doesn't understand that when enemy hull armor is up, his bigger priority is repairs, you guessed it, I failed in explain the nature of explosive vs piercing damage.
You can do ALOT with a responsive crew with just some communication, but you need to be communicating from a position of knowledge. You have to know your ship, its abilities and limitations, and somehow you have to put this information into your crew.
If you can do that you will be a good captain.
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I did say "reasonably" sober in the CA oath, so I cover one of those areas.
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as a captain myself, from the feedback i have had from crew members, the things i have learnt to focus on are:
- Being aware of firing arks and which combo's work the best.
- being able to tell your gunners which guns to man and to keep them able to fire
- aware of the surroundings and how to use them to favour you
- The biggest thing I'm guilty of and i know for a fact many many more captains is, talking to one another
- Telling your crew what you are doing
- listening to what the crew tell you
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Some things about a few of the captains I like flying with
- Pretty vocal about everything, explains what they want to their crew before and during game
- Doesn't get upset or frustrated in tough or losing situations, keeps their cool and doesn't try to play the blame game
- Coordinates with other captains
- Understands the ships they fly and demonstrates that in-game
- Another thing I appreciated in my earlier games was a few captains that had the patience to teach me as we played. If you're learning something every time you play with someone more experienced than you, they must be doing something right
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Well, we covered the gameplay basics quite well. To be even able to function properly as a Captain, the Captain needs to know the ship, be able to communicate, think 3 turns and 2 corners ahead and count all ships on the map in.
What I'm looking for in Captains differs a little, though. I'll be kind of happy when we win a game because the Captain know's the ropes and helps the Crew to function nicely, but unless the Captain congratulates the crew after the match, it'll feel a little.. like something's missing.
In my opinion, going for the Captain slot is not only a commitment in terms of ship, crew and battlefield awareness, but also a kind of "social" job. Captain's got to play it down when the ship is on the loosing side, and always find someone else to blame than the crew, be respectful with the enemy team and that 11 year old powder monkey who just joined upon his/her ship and yells about every single shot he/she scored. And then even congratulate that person on the good shooting. I'd also expect the Captain to keep the crew in check if they start ranting about something in the chat. After all, and maybe just for the duration of one match, it's "your" crew.
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I think I have been drunk more than 10 play days :)
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*snipped*
In my opinion, going for the Captain slot is not only a commitment in terms of ship, crew and battlefield awareness, but also a kind of "social" job. Captain's got to play it down when the ship is on the loosing side, and always find someone else to blame than the crew, be respectful with the enemy team and that 11 year old powder monkey who just joined upon his/her ship and yells about every single shot he/she scored. And then even congratulate that person on the good shooting. I'd also expect the Captain to keep the crew in check if they start ranting about something in the chat. After all, and maybe just for the duration of one match, it's "your" crew.
This, oh so very much this. I've made more long term friends in this game as captain by letting the crew know, even though we lost, they did a great job and I couldn't ask for better. Not as an empty compliment, usually you simply get outplayed or they bring a scissor to your paper at the last second. I can safely say I've had 0-5 losses that my crew was still fired up and stuck around for the next go. A happy crew will win you matches, and stay with you for a long time.
Another note as a captain, be open to suggestion and encourage your crew to call out EVERYTHING regardless of whether or not they think you know; the communication should flow both ways. When I gun or engi, I never shut the hell up for more than ten seconds. I work as my captains peripheral vision and keep eyes out for any sign of foe, our ally's position(s), and any ideas I might find staring at that map in the lull of action. Many, many captains appreciate the additional input, especially when I call out that Hwacha or Blenderfish on our six before he's in range to strand us in the sky.
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Chrinus speaks the truth.
I usually put good captains to the friends list so I have the possibility to fly under them in the future, too. And when I fail under them I feel more guilty than I usually do in other games. It is surprising how well a good captain creates loyalty, even in a computer-game. :D
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Another note as a captain, be open to suggestion and encourage your crew to call out EVERYTHING regardless of whether or not they think you know; the communication should flow both ways. When I gun or engi, I never shut the hell up for more than ten seconds. I work as my captains peripheral vision and keep eyes out for any sign of foe, our ally's position(s), and any ideas I might find staring at that map in the lull of action. Many, many captains appreciate the additional input, especially when I call out that Hwacha or Blenderfish on our six before he's in range to strand us in the sky.
Much agree with your whole post and I think this part is very important. Its better to call out something your captain may already know than to not call out something they may not. I feel a good captain (or anyone for that matter) should avoid the habit of saying something like "I know" when a call out is made. It makes others feel like what they're saying is pointless and begin to neglect making observations for each other, which in return causes more mistakes.
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- Communication is key, during the match but also BEFORE. Starting to explain to your crew how your ship is geared before it starts will help gunners/engineers to chose their ammo, or you can even ask them to pick up whatever ammo you want them to pick.
- Awareness as someone mentionned, is important, sometimes I wonder if captain are playing in 1st person because they don't seem to look around them.
Most of the important points have been brought up rightfully in this thread though.
I'd like to be a better captain, I always use a mic but I don't communicate with the others captain, it's not that I don't want to but most of the time they don't answer or don't bother talking to the whole fleet.
Also, I see it quite often on the forum, can someone tell me what "tar" means?
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Also, I see it quite often on the forum, can someone tell me what "tar" means?
It refers to the Captain's tool, "Tar Barrel". You've surely seen that black cloud trailing behind ships already! It damages the own ships engines when used lightly, but any other ships that flies trough it much heavier. Quite useful for discouraging pursuing ships :P
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Also, I see it quite often on the forum, can someone tell me what "tar" means?
It refers to the Captain's tool, "Tar Barrel". You've surely seen that black cloud trailing behind ships already! It damages the own ships engines when used lightly, but any other ships that flies trough it much heavier. Quite useful for discouraging pursuing ships :P
Ah! Thanks a lot, yeah I completely forgot about this tool as it was useless at a time when we could just spot ships through clouds with the long view.
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Never belittle bad players. Seriously it does nothing to help them or you. If a crew isn't listening or refuses to listen just go make a new lobby.
I really get tired of listening to captains berate their crews for their mistakes. It gets old fast. If you cant make someone fly within your system or you ca't fly within theirs, go find a new crew or co captain.
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What makes a good captain? Who knows, good is subjective. The question should be what makes an effective captain.
While I can't make a blanket statement for what a captain needs to do and needs not to do, what I can say is what I do and how I gel together a crew.
The first thing I do when I chose to be captain is start talking. Right off the bat I greet my crew, ask how's it going, and whatever. The point being is that I engage them and make them talk back. This is also a critical time to start building a rep with them. If I'm likable, I find that more people will tend to listen to me. So we talk, I find out what's happening with them, how experienced they are, and what positions they want to take. In between I joke and pal around with them constantly building that rep. This also is my chance to find if who will listen and who won't listen. I'll be very very reluctant to captain if my crew doesn't talk back to me.
The second thing I do is start to gauge my teammate and the opposition. Once again I talk to the other captain and see what's up with him. I see what ship he chose and his loadout. I then chose a ship that will complement him. I look at the opposition and find out what ship would be easier to engage and fight against. While I'll talk to the opposition I won't try to guess how they play, I want to set the tempo to the upcoming battle, not them.
Third thing I do is start doling out duties. I'll assign my crew to position where they feel most comfortable at. If they are really good I change things up different rounds so that people rotate positions so that other people have the chance to play different positions. Changing positions keeps the crew happy.
Then I'm set for the battle. My crew will have the general idea of what they'll be doing and there won't be a clusterfuck in the beginning.
Now for in-game.
Off the bat I group up with my teammate. I'll talk to them and plan a hasty order of battle. Once things are set I make sure my crew are in position and ready for the fight. Then, I'm off.
At all times I keep my head on a swivel. I'm now looking around for enemy ships, planing where I'm going to head about 1-2 klicks out, watching my teammate to be sure we're together, and watching my crew. At the same time I'm keeping my ears open for contact reports and sitreps from both my crew and teammate.
Now for battle.
I shout, I shout, A LOT. This isn't because I'm angry or an asshole, this is to make sure people hear me and understand me. I give clear orders and inform people on the statuses of ship parts. I make snap calls at what to fire and what to repair. I also have to talk to my crewmate, keep my head on a swivel, and plan two to three steps out. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Of course there is the saying that the best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry, when things fail its time for improv and basically flying by the seat of my pants.
Then the rest is history.
So basically to recap:
I communicate a lot. My job is all about talking and making sure what I say gets done.
I accumulate information. An apt analogy is that I am a sponge and all the information that is bombarding me is a firehose, I got to soak all of it up or I risk missing something important.
I plan all my moves out. I take the information I gathered and through experience and my anticipations create plan to beat my opponent.
Being Captain is not everyones cup of tea. It's extremely demanding and a lot of people are expecting you to pull though and win. It's a lot of pressure to be under but as Captain I thrive in that pressure. So that's what I think it takes.
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I'm only beggining at this game, so I didn't try to be a captain yet. However, I've met some really nice captains along the way. What they did that helped me do my job was:
-Not being nervous. Just calm, maybe a little nervous but nothing more than that. When our ship was destroyed, our captain's reaction was "Oh well. We will get them next time"
-Being really communicative. Casual talk helps, but mostly it was about what he wanted to get done. And also WHO he wanted to get that done.
As a crew member, what I noticed that helped my captain was really telling him (and the whole crew) the progress on the task he asked. Sure, he could check himself that the hull had been repaired, but it is just so much easier when I just *say* it. This helps him to focus on other issues, since there are always plenty of them.
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actually, you can describe a good captain with 3 words.
1. Communication
2. Tactics
3. Fun
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My list goes:
1. Leadership
2. Tactics
3. Pilot skill
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My list.
1. Sammy
2. B.
3. T.
:P
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-Play like your ship and the lives of your crew matter
This is the most common idea that gets passed up. You can have moments of just silliness where you go on a ramfest for fun. But if you change your overall mindset into thinking about keeping your ship alive, you'll find yourself a lot harder to take down. Think evasion. Then spam Muse...FIX HYDRO!!!
-Know the limits of your crew
Are they experienced? Noobs? People who don't listen or refuse to listen after repeated attempts to help?
There isn't always a huge gap between vets and noobs. Sometimes you have to scale back your piloting to compensate. It'll usually take them a few matches to be able to get up to speed. For crews which refuse to listen, you might as well be ground chuck. Usually it isn't an entire crew but just one person. Ask them to leave. No sense in that one person bringing down the game for everyone because they want to dink around or be a jerk.
-Know the limits and capabilities of your ship
You gotta know every angle. Every firing arc. What the ship can handle, what the ship can't handle. How much sustained fire it can take before the armor goes down. Limitations in the game engine and the loads of bugs related to that. Gotta put your ship into positions where the crew can perform. Think about what they are dealing with. Can they shoot properly? Can they repair/rebuild in time? What is the ranges on the guns? Speed of the ship should you need to make an escape?
-Tactics
Using your environment, your ship, your tools, everything. Try to predict what your opponent may be thinking and work out ways to counter it.
-Awareness and communication
Be aware. Your crew is going to be busy, they can't always check around. Communicate often and they'll help spot every chance they get. Talk to your other captain(s), unless of course they don't seem to want to.
-Leadership
You are the orchestrator. You control if the team gets kills, if they die, and if they survive. A gunner cannot shoot unless they have a target and an engineer cannot repair effectively under heavy fire. Different ships may need different repair orders. Some need speed to evade hits, others need faster rebuilds on hulls to soak damage.
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One thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet... Don't act like you're literally tied to the helm!
The only reason you need to be at the helm is to steer the ship. Other parts of being a captain can be performed from elsewhere too. And there are situations where trying to move the ship isn't the best idea...
Unavailable: You have no engines. Banging on the control keys won't get you anywhere, so perhaps a better idea to go bang on something else with a tool to take pressure off the crew and help get up and running quicker.
Unwanted: You're sniping. Moving the ship will mess up the crew's aim. You could shoot or repair, or maybe even just get off the helm and spot.
Unwise: If you've taken heavy damage, or are facing superior firepower, sometimes running away is a lost cause. Helping to shoot or repair may let you survive, or at least damage the enemy more before you die.
Also remember that the ship will keep going straight if you get off the helm with the throttle set. This means you can do other things even while moving.
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I must strongly disagree with getting off the helm in most scenarios. If you are in such disrepair that your ship is either about to go down or become immobilized, you should have already put you crew in a tankn/flee/cower mode. Every second spent running to a component and repairing is a second not spent evading. Even with one engine, evasions can still be made (one turn lets you turn, one primary lets you change speed) Even with no engines, changing elevation can still help. There are of course exceptions such as Galleons, where minor turns don't exist, and Junker Balloon repair where you just have to look up. However, few things make me rage more than when the ship is going down and the capatain has decided to stop evading in favor of hitting the hull with his pipe wrench when the rest of the crew is already in repair mode.
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1. not being a $#$%#&^%^&*%%^$ gunner.
2. equipping at least one non harpoon weapon.
3. knowing what captains chat is.
4. sharing the moonshine.
5. communication.
6. understanding fire arcs.
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When captaining a Pyra I jump off the helm to fix the hull in a 1v1 slug fest. I would prefer my upstairs shooters keeping up their rate of fire than trying to save the ship. I try to time my departure just before the hull goes down and I go back to the helm just before the hull goes up (that way my engineer is assured the last tap with a mallet). If I time it right we can get the armor back before the last flack of the clip hits us. It is a highly situational move, and one that only works if the enemy is stationary (pyra v pyra).
In preparation to leave the helm. I burn moonshine on neutral for .5 of a second to cancel out any turning momentum, then if the engines are even I put the ship in a slight backwards velocity. This gives the highest chance of my guns staying on target while I am away from the helm.
The only time I gun as a captain is on the galleon when my side guns have target, and my engie is too busy with the hull.
I have also been known to fix the hull and balloon on a galleon and the balloon on a junker. I even go as far as fixing engines if they are all down and there is no point for me being on the helm.
Outside of these rare instances I am always on the helm as captain.
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I noticed that yelling "FIRE EVERYTHING" as soon as the enemy is in range gives me a lot of popularity.
But honestly I think that a good captain should use the mic to communicate with his crew and never get mad if a crewmember underperforms. Just give advice, not criticism. Make the game fun for everyone and the crew will love you for it even if you lose.
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I am perhaps a bad captain then because I do get mad at my crew and I let them know it.
I have uttered the phrases:
"we die here for your incompetence."
"You can't be trusted with the hull, go upstairs and shoot a gun. Leave the engineering to a real man"
and my personal favorite:
"I will have you flogged for insubordination under fire"
I know it is just a game, but the captain's roll in this game is to be a harsh unforgiving taskmaster, who pushes the ship and its crew to their limits. Any thing less and you are not a "good captain."