Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: awkm on March 06, 2013, 01:04:36 pm
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This appeared in Q&A so I'm reposting. This does not go over damage multipliers, I think that's pretty self explanatory.
Multipliers and general gun info can be found here:
http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/
These tables are dynamic and are most up to date.
Let me clear some stuff up.
Types of firing mechanisms:
- Raycast—A straight line of a certain range is projected from the barrel point. If this line intersects a hitbox, a hit will be registered. No projectile is fired in actually world space. Guns that are raycast include the gatling and carronade. Raycast weapons are not affected by muzzle speed or gravity.
- Projectile—A projectile is spawn in world space and shot through the air according to several variables along a ballistic arc. If said projectile collides with a hitbox, a hit will be registered. Most of the guns in the game are projectile based.
- Particle—Particles are weird and it's only the flamethrower for now. They spread, they rise, they act like particles and they're weird. Did I say that already? Just deal with it :P
Important variables affecting firing mechanism
- Gravity—How much gravity is applied to a projectile, more gravity the more quickly its arc will drop.
- Muzzle Speed—How fast the projectile is traveling in m/s. Muzzle speed and gravity are related in that if you have lots of gravity but high muzzle speed, the arc will be very wide and the projectile will travel farther before significant drop occurs. High gravity with low muzzle speed will cause the the projectile to drop quickly. Imagine a horizontal force (muzzle speed) vs. a vertical force (gravity) because that's just how it works. Physics 101.
- Jitter—A number in degrees that is randomly selected from 0 to the max jitter allowed for that gun each time a raycast or projectile is spawned. The initial rotation of said raycast or projectile will inherit this randomly generated jitter from 0 to max jitter. This is to simulate recoil. Yeah it's hacky, trust me we know and we're not happy with it, but we never had time to do recoil for real. We're working on it and trying to fix this soon.
- Arming Time—A number in seconds where if projectile hits before arming time is reached, only primary damage is applied. Therefore, full damage potential range is Arming Time * Muzzle Speed. Lumberjack and Heavy Flak have arming time.
Primary Secondary Dmg
- Primary—Will apply damage to the part that is hit. May penetrate slightly based on penetration (in seconds, penetration * muzzle speed = distance penetrated, only for projectile weapons. This number is either 0 or very very small so don't worry.).
- Secondary—Once projectile stops moving (post penetration), secondary damage will be applied.
- Area of Effect—The radius in meters of possible secondary dmg area of effect. Components caught in this range will have secondary damage applied. Epicenter is where the projectile stops moving post penetration.
And Alex (Watchmaker, and on of our talented programmers) covers the damage transfer stuff:
Overflow damage on a single hit does not transfer.
Subsequent hits transfer from the component that was hit to the "hull component" - meaning they apply damage to armor first, if any remains.
We've been unclear in the past on the terms for the two health bars on the hull (I try to refer to them as armor and health), which is probably part of the confusion.
Each hit (projectile, explosion, gatling or carronade ray/pellet) deals its damage to a single location, in a lump. Transferred hits function exactly as if you actually hit, say, a hull hitbox instead of a balloon hitbox. None of the balloon/engine/gun multipliers are applied; multipliers for hull armor or health are applied according to the hull's current state.
Note that there is a slightly weird case where a single hit deals more damage than remaining hull armor. Currently, in this case, the base damage is multiplied by the armor modifiers, and any overflow of that modified value is applied directly to hull health.
And to clarify, mechanical components that are dead also transfer damage to hull. E.g. the front gun on a Goldfish will transfer damage dealt to it to the hull if the gun is dead. If this was not the case, you'll have a huge shield in the front of the ship to ram with etc.
One thing that's covered in the other topic and not here is damage multipliers when something is dead. If the balloon is completely dead and you fire at it, the damage is transferred to the hull and hull multipliers are applied, not balloon. You just get a bigger target area, not more damage per shot. Although as Alex mentions in the quoted area, there is a discrepancy with this when one single hit destroys the balloon or whatever and there is damage left over.
I think that's the most of what's in play.
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And to clarify, mechanical components that are dead also transfer damage to hull. E.g. the front gun on a Goldfish will transfer damage dealt to it to the hull if the gun is dead. If this was not the case, you'll have a huge shield in the front of the ship to ram with etc.
One thing that's covered in the other topic and not here is damage multipliers when something is dead. If the balloon is completely dead and you fire at it, the damage is transferred to the hull and hull multipliers are applied, not balloon. You just get a bigger target area, not more damage per shot. Although as Alex mentions in the quoted area, there is a discrepancy with this when one single hit destroys the balloon or whatever and there is damage left over.
And to clarify what Watchmaker has said on the other thread, the damage transfer from a dead component is to the "hull component", i.e. damage will be taken by the armour until the armour is destroyed and then the hull health.
(is it too late to fix the game so that "hull" is a component comprising a "chassis" protected by "armour", or some other distinction to avoid triplele-duty with the word "hull" - hull refers to the total component comprising the hull and the armour, it refers to the critical ship health bar on it's own in general terminology, and it even refers specifically to armour in the damage reporting system)
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Part of the hotfix after 1.1.5 changed this very slightly, removing the overflow damage from destroyed armor (which was using the "wrong" multipliers, for armor rather than health). Any excess damage on the hit that destroys armor now vanishes.
To stave off possible confusion: note that when using an explosive projectile, the direct-hit damage and the explosion damage are treated separately; if the direct hit wipes out the armor, the secondary explosion damage is still applied to hull health (appropriately modified for its damage type).
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If damage dealt to components is passed through to the armor and then hull... does this mean that AOE damage that hits multiple destroyed components will do more armor/hull damage than AOE damage that doesn't hit any destroyed components?
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No, because the single instance of AOE damage will never damage a single component (the hull in this case) more than once.
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I updated the Wiki with the relevant information here. I also included a link back to this post.
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Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?
There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.
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Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?
There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.
This is complicated question but here is the tl;dr version:
- A harpoon will detach automatically at 120 seconds
- Max length is 600m before breaking
- The harpoon will apply a constant pulling force (right when harpoon makes contact with hull) from the ship that fired the harpoon to the point where the harpoon is attached. Movement and overall affect is similar to if the two ship bodies are afloat in water (air is also a liquid) but of course with the additional Y-axis movement. It responds 100% accurately to how force would affect these bodies in liquid based on the two points of attachment as well as the drag profile of each body
- Engine force output is not affected
With that said... it's extremely difficult to predict the movement on your own. It also takes into account engine movement and will further augment the outcome of these effects, making them even harder to predict. We're looking into simplifying this system to make it less real and more gamey. Easier to predict and actually do something that you'd like it to e.g. maintain range instead of pulling all of the time (because that's not always helpful).
However, I've heard that from the recent pull force reduction that harpoons are useful in some situations. Although this is a small subset of the player set that can actually use them effectively.
Nothing is set in stone right now. It's a decently sized feature request.
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Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?
There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.
This is complicated question but here is the tl;dr version:
- A harpoon will detach automatically at 120 seconds
- Max length is 600m before breaking
- The harpoon will apply a constant pulling force (right when harpoon makes contact with hull) from the ship that fired the harpoon to the point where the harpoon is attached. Movement and overall affect is similar to if the two ship bodies are afloat in water (air is also a liquid) but of course with the additional Y-axis movement. It responds 100% accurately to how force would affect these bodies in liquid based on the two points of attachment as well as the drag profile of each body
- Engine force output is not affected
With that said... it's extremely difficult to predict the movement on your own. It also takes into account engine movement and will further augment the outcome of these effects, making them even harder to predict. We're looking into simplifying this system to make it less real and more gamey. Easier to predict and actually do something that you'd like it to e.g. maintain range instead of pulling all of the time (because that's not always helpful).
However, I've heard that from the recent pull force reduction that harpoons are useful in some situations. Although this is a small subset of the player set that can actually use them effectively.
Nothing is set in stone right now. It's a decently sized feature request.
how about when on the weapon if you hold 'S' it pulls? that way the captain can tell the crew member Exactly when he wants it to pull.
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Yeah the ability to pull, or at least stop the rope at a certain distance would be handy :)
I'm not sure if there is a topic for this, but is there a place for finding about rotation limits for each weapons? Are they weapon based, or ship based or both? This is an information that is harder to find that the damage.
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Rotation limits are weapon-based. I'm not sure the figures were ever given for most guns though?
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I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?
Also, the info for the flare gun on the weapons page seems to be a bit out of date (ammo is different, in-game shows secondary damage as explosive(?)). Would appreciate knowing the stats for it.
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I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?
The flare gun has an AoE of 0, so it's therefore impossible for it to hit multiple components, even with burst.
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I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?
The flare gun has an AoE of 0, so it's therefore impossible for it to hit multiple components, even with burst.
It may have an AoE of 0, but i've hit multiple things with one shot on numerous occasions, typically gun and hull or hull and balloon. I once hit a pyramidion's hull, side gun, then balloon from shooting underneath. Once it hits something, it doesn't stop immediately.
So yeah, I've been using it extensively the past few days and I'm really curious how it works.
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There is a bit of travel through for lots of the projectiles in the game though the devs never tell us how much.
I know frequently prior to 1.14 that a mercury shot could break a weapon and the hull in one shot. This was due to it traveling through the gun to hit both the gun and the hull.
Maybe this is what you observed?
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There is a bit of travel through for lots of the projectiles in the game though the devs never tell us how much.
I know frequently prior to 1.14 that a mercury shot could break a weapon and the hull in one shot. This was due to it traveling through the gun to hit both the gun and the hull.
Maybe this is what you observed?
Yes. But the question still remains, does it only set the first thing it hits on fire or everything it hits? Also, what are its other stats, since its information seems a bit outdated?
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There is a bit of travel through for lots of the projectiles in the game though the devs never tell us how much.
I know frequently prior to 1.14 that a mercury shot could break a weapon and the hull in one shot. This was due to it traveling through the gun to hit both the gun and the hull.
Maybe this is what you observed?
This was because back then, damage would spill over from extra damage. So if you shot out a component (hull armor for example) with a merc, and leftover damage would then be applied to the hull using incorrect modifiers. I forget when that was changed, but now it shouldn't spill over at all.
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Damage would spill from hull to armor but not from component to hull.
Awkm admitted a long time a go that some weapons would penetrate but only a very small distance. Then sometime after that admission the mercury seemed to stop doing it without any official comments in the patch notes.
Anyways, just some stories from an old salty aeronaut.
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How do the cloud highlighting mechanics of the flare work?
Sometimes I shoot a flare into a cloud, and my ship gets spotted but the enemy ships are not visible.
Sometimes I shoot a flare into a cloud, and I see the enemy and the enemy sees me.
Sometimes I shoot a flare into a cloud, and I see the enemy but they don't spot me back.
I am pretty sure it has something to do with the distance from the flare or cloud, but a more precise answer would be appreciated.
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Flares "illuminate" within a large radius once they trigger. Ships that are illuminated and inside a cloud - regardless of team - are drawn as visible shadows on the cloud.
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Since you may have missed my questions, does the flare gun only set the first thing it hits on fire or everything it hits? Also, what are its stats, since its information seems a bit outdated?
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Since you may have missed my questions, does the flare gun only set the first thing it hits on fire or everything it hits? Also, what are its stats, since its information seems a bit outdated?
Flaregun travels and sets everything it passes through on fire until it activates. The distance between a hit and activation is rather small, but from my experience, far enough to go from the bottom of a Goldfish's hull to its balloon.
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, could you update the stats of the Flare Gun on the weapons page? Seems to be out of date.
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http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/
It seems like there are lots of mistakes in the AoE numbers. Among other things, the mortar should have 8 according to the 1.3 patch notes and the mine launcher should have 60. There's also no way the merc has 6.
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Yup it definitely looks like the aoe numbers have been shuffled.
Also the mine launcher damage stats are higher than the original patch notes. Have they been changed recently?
I did notice that the light Mortar's aoe and direct damage numbers seem to have been swapped. Has that been changed as well?
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When you see errors in that spreadsheet, please PM or email me.
That stuff is updated manually by hand. Honestly, it's one of the lowest priority items I have on my docket so any help I can get pin-pointing exactly what the errors are would be very very helpful and much appreciated.
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Several people seemed confused about exactly what Burst Rounds affects, so I'll set the record straight:
The +50% area-of-effect increases the radius of explosions (secondary damage on projectile weapons) and the size of particles (the flamethrower). It does not affect raycast weapons whatsoever.
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Wow, thanks for this.
I always thought it didn't effect flamethrower but did effect ray casts.
The more you know!
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I've read over this a few times and I have a question, but before I ask it, I need some clarification.
Damage transfer only happens when the component you hit has already been destroyed, right?
Then the damage first transfers to the armor (unless it was the armor that was hit) and then to the hull, right?
And a multiplier isn't applied until it gets to the component that it actually does damage to, after which it applies the multiplier for that component, right?
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This is a complicated question but as far as I understand, the hull works differently from other components so this requires us to look at them separately.
For regular components: damage will only transfer to the hull component (read this as armor or permahull depending on the state) from another component (ie the balloon) if that component (ie balloon) is already destroyed. So if you shoot at a destroyed balloon the damage will transfer to the hull component with the proper hull component modifier (this is a lot easier to conceptualize when you consider a destroyed balloon, gun, engine etc is turned into part of the hull hotbox.
If however your shot breaks the armor of a ship, its damage can be split. Assuming the direct damage is enough to break the armor, the AOE damage will apply to the permahull though I'm uncertain which damage modifier it inherits.
Hope that helps answer your question.
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Alright, cool. I think I understand now.
So, if I hit something, the direct damage affects only the component which was directly hit, but the AoE damage affects the component which was hit and anything else within the radius, but only once per each component. What I'm wondering is, if AoE damage that hits a component that is destroyed transfers to the armor (and then to the hull if the armor is gone), then does that mean that AoE damage could potentially affect the hull more than once?
For example, let's say Weapon X deals 50 Direct and 50 AoE damages. The SS Roflsauce has had an engine and a gun destroyed. If Weapon X manages to hit the hull directly (50 direct + 50 AoE) and then the destroyed engine and gun are within AoE radius (50 AoE each), then does that mean a total of 200 damage (50 direct + 150 AoE) hits the hull? (I've ignored modifiers for the sake of simplicity.)
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AoE can only hit the hull once. The destroyed components act basically like extensions of the already existing hull hitbox instead of extra hitboxes, so yeah, it can only hit once.
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AoE can only hit the hull once. The destroyed components act basically like extensions of the already existing hull hitbox instead of extra hitboxes, so yeah, it can only hit once.
Which is why the Lumberjack, with its insane AoE, is not a real killer. If it weren't the case, the AoE Flechette would be dealing 600 Flechette (or after math, 120 damage) per shot once the Balloon and Hull Armor is down to the hull...and most ships but the Galleon (as hitting the top of the Balloon on the Galleon does little AoE to the hull itself...)
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Ah, okay.
So, if Weapon X had hit the destroyed engine directly, then the AoE still would only apply once to the hull?
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Yes, exactly.
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Let's say you have charged loaded and the gun buffed. I was under the impression that that would give a 56% boost (1.3*1.2=1.56) in damage per shot, but I've been told that the modifiers actually get added together, which would result in only a 50% boost. Is that the case?
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So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?
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So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?
To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.
So let's say your raycast gun has a muzzle velocity of 200m/s. If you're moving up at a rate of 5m/s and your target is 600m away, you will need to aim 15m below where your target actually is in order to hit it (EDIT: Because it would take 3 secs for the weapon to travel 600m with a muzzle velocity of 200m/s, so 5m/s * 3s = 15m). The thing is, your opponent's velocity doesn't matter for the gatling. You could both be moving up at 5m/s such that your relative velocities are 0m/s, but you'll still have to aim 15m below it to hit. It's fairly counterintuitive, and kind of ignores physics in that regard.
The devs made sure that all the guns inherit the velocity of their ship properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't work too well for raycast weapons. Oops.
NOTE: I could be wrong about some aspects, it's been a while since I've actually fired a gatling. I did jump into the sandbox real quick to test my theory, though, and I think it checks out.
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So does that explain why, instead of needing to lead targets, the gatling actually needs to fire behind them? (if you're both traveling in the same direction) I've always wondered about that since, as you said, it's very counter-intuitive.
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So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?
To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.
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Quoted only part that actually answeres my question. Why are Raycast weapons treated this way? And on that topic, that seems to be the only difference between raycast and hitscan gameplay wise.
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So does that explain why, instead of needing to lead targets, the gatling actually needs to fire behind them? (if you're both traveling in the same direction) I've always wondered about that since, as you said, it's very counter-intuitive.
In the case where you're both traveling the same direction and not turning, yes.
Why are Raycast weapons treated this way?
The devs made sure that all the guns inherit the velocity of their ship properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't work too well for raycast weapons. Oops.
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So why does the Raycast line get crooked when the ship the gun is fired from is moving?
To the best of my understanding, it has to do with relative velocities and how they're kind of ignored with raycast weapons. While a raycast weapon travels near instantaneously, it's treated as though it has a finite muzzle velocity, and follows the path it would take if it actually travelled with that finite velocity. It just travels along that path near instantaneously.
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Quoted only part that actually answeres my question. Why are Raycast weapons treated this way? And on that topic, that seems to be the only difference between raycast and hitscan gameplay wise.
Another difference worth mentioning: burst rounds don't affect their AoE.
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So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?
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So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?
They would spawn too many objects at once and in quick succession, can't say that's good for the frame rate.
Especially the carronades that fire at least 20 pellets all at once.
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So why do the gatling gun and carronade not use physical projectiles?
They would spawn too many objects at once and in quick succession, can't say that's good for the frame rate.
Especially the carronades that fire at least 20 pellets all at once.
Pretty sure its in the 30-40 range, actually. I think Frago mentioned it to me before, but if that's wrong, blame Shink.
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Pretty sure its in the 30-40 range, actually. I think Frago mentioned it to me before, but if that's wrong, blame Shink.
Well, according to Incediary ignition chances, you would mostly be correct, now that I remember it properly, incediary gives you an 20% ingition chance per hit, the average I got from the Heavy carronade were 8-12 fire stacks at once, so it probably fires 50 pellets.
Now imagine that gun spawning 50 actual, lightining fast projectiles. xD
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The gat only spawns one projectile at a time though. Can't believe having 5 projectiles more per second on the screen would hurt fps more than the mortar projectiles which have smoke trailing them.
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http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/
The weapons spreadsheet is in dire need of an update. Seems like there are more old stats than current ones on it at this point.
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Probably because most guns got changed in the last patch and the new numbers arent included yet.
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(there were more old stats than new ones before this patch too)
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(there were more old stats than new ones before this patch too)
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If the Armour of a ship is down and you hit it with a Heavy Flak Cannon, The primary damage hits it and eals its damage. does the secondary damage it too oris Secondary just damaging everything else around it?
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The primary and secondary damage of the heavy flak cannon will both do damage the permahull if the heavy flak round hits an unarmored hull.
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I thought so! :D time to gloat at a friend :P
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So, new question: How do the modifiers work, especially buff? B - Basedamage; D - Final damage; A - Ammo modifier; buff - Buff modifier (so either 1 for no buff or 1,2 for buffed); C - Component modifier/ Damage type modifier
Is it
D=B*A*buff*C
or
D=B*(A+buff+C-2)
or something entirely different?
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I'm pretty certain that it works like this:
D=(B1*C1+B2*C2)*(A+buff)
So for example, a buffed, charged merc against hull armour would do this:
D=(75*1.5+300*0.2)*(0.3+1.2)
Which comes out to 258.75.
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I'm pretty certain that it works like this:
D=(B1*C1+B2*C2)*(A+buff)
So for example, a buffed, charged merc against hull armour would do this:
D=(75*1.5+300*0.2)*(0.3+1.2)
Which comes out to 258.75.
Wait isn't it this? D=(75*1.5+300*0.2) * (1.3*1.2) I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
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According to Cullen (found this out via Echo), the buff and ammo modifiers are added, not multiplied.
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Skeptical am I.
I might need to devise some tests.
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Wait people realy didn't know of this?
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So, with the change to raycast weapons in 1.3.3, do Lesmok rounds actually work with raycast weapons now? Previously they were useless on gatlings and carronades since they were unaffected by muzzle speed and projectile lift. Has this changed?
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Yes, changed the patch before this one.
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Wait people realy didn't know of this?
Your saying the charged plus buff modifier is 1.5 instead of 1.56. That's counter intuitive to me. It seems the modifiers should multiply against each other not be additive. 20% more than 100 and 30% more than that is 156, not 150.
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Wait people realy didn't know of this?
Your saying the charged plus buff modifier is 1.5 instead of 1.56. That's counter intuitive to me. It seems the modifiers should multiply against each other not be additive. 20% more than 100 and 30% more than that is 156, not 150.
I thought it was really odd too, but I'd imagine that Cullen would know how it works.
Unless Eric wants to go ahead and clarify.
Yes, changed the patch before this one.
Rather, the patch before the patch before the patch before this one (1.3) ;)
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Well, that's actually why I'm asking. Additive mods would mean buff has the same absolute, but better relative effect on greased than charged rounds. Multiplikative mods would mean the same relative effect but better absolute effect on charged than greased rounds.
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[...] the aoe damage reduces as it moves farther away from [the] impacts.
Is that true?
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The weapons page still says flamethrower has 300 ammo when it only has 250.
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I don't think an official response ever got posted for this question, so I'm posting one:
Multiple sources of % modifiers (buff hammer + charged rounds, buff hammer + kerosene, etc) are additive. That is, the final value, whether we're talking about engine thrust or shot damage or whatever, is
(base value) * ( 1 + (modifier1 + modifier2 + ...) )
This applies equally to negative modifiers; Impact Bumpers is (I think) -60% thrust, and buff hammer gives +25% thrust, so if both are active you have 65% (1 - 0.35) of your engine's normal thrust.
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Is this the same for component modifiers for damage types?
If its the same it would be like this: base damage*(buff+ammo+component)
Or is the component damage added elsewhere?
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Taking damage into account the formula would be:
(base value) * (damage modifier) * (1 + skillModifier1 + skillModifier2 +...)
The damage modifier is linear between 0 and 1 for engines and the balloon (just health/maxHealth). For guns, it's (health/maxHealth)*0.5 + 0.5.
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Ooooh! I thought this thread was forgotten. This specific question actually did get answered at some point, maybe when I asked ingame :P
So to the AoE thing... do 'splosions do less damage to stuff the further it's away from the epicenter? (quoting awkm on that nomencalture) Reading the OP it really seemed (to me) like full secondary damage was applied on all components caught in the AoE.
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https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3461.msg61153.html#msg61153
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Thx omni!
@ Allistair in case Watchmaker didnt answer your question with that post (did he?),
I'm very confident damage type modifiers are multiplied after everything else is calculated, so it'd look like this:
(final damage to component)=[(primary damage)*(1+buff+ammo)]*(primary damage type)+[(secondary damage)*(1+buff+ammo)]*(secondary damagetype)
So it's the same as written earlier in this thread (by sunderland I believe).
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Thats what watchmaker said ;).
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Oh I thought he was talking about effectiveness of damaged components.
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Good Guide.
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Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?
There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.
This is complicated question but here is the tl;dr version:
- A harpoon will detach automatically at 120 seconds
- Max length is 600m before breaking
- The harpoon will apply a constant pulling force (right when harpoon makes contact with hull) from the ship that fired the harpoon to the point where the harpoon is attached. Movement and overall affect is similar to if the two ship bodies are afloat in water (air is also a liquid) but of course with the additional Y-axis movement. It responds 100% accurately to how force would affect these bodies in liquid based on the two points of attachment as well as the drag profile of each body
- Engine force output is not affected
With that said... it's extremely difficult to predict the movement on your own. It also takes into account engine movement and will further augment the outcome of these effects, making them even harder to predict. We're looking into simplifying this system to make it less real and more gamey. Easier to predict and actually do something that you'd like it to e.g. maintain range instead of pulling all of the time (because that's not always helpful).
However, I've heard that from the recent pull force reduction that harpoons are useful in some situations. Although this is a small subset of the player set that can actually use them effectively.
Nothing is set in stone right now. It's a decently sized feature request.
I would love to use the Harpoon gun not only for a role playing 'wailer' but also in the context of a truly competitive Pyra. I used it in a few of my beginning matches but the issue is the that it would drop before we got to them rendering it useless. I admit that I haven't used it much recently but I would love to see it used more often.
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Yor Trison, keep in mind that was awkm's explanation back in 2013. The harpoon mechanics have changed a bit since then. It was always unwieldy and often a waste of space. During the glory days of the harpoon it would stay attached until you fired a 2nd harpoon and act like a bungee chord between the two ships. Most of the time the harpoon will make both ships flounder about with no direction control, but if you setup the situation just right you could use the harpoon to fling enemy ships into walls. Sadly the game physics don't allow for that level of stupidity anymore.