Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => The Classroom => Q&A => Topic started by: Dryykon on March 16, 2015, 04:07:08 pm
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As my 12 play hours as an engi (such newb), I've gradually opted more for the extinguisher over the chem spray due to its instant fix of any fire problem. However, higher level captains often load me out with chem spray. I do the cycles and it usually doesn't seem to be a problem. However in hairy situations when a cycle is missed the flame stacks build up, the chem spray just doesn't seem to cut it.
So... I am wondering given what builds/enemies is one better than the other?
Also, given an arguement last night...
(http://upurs.us/image/64159.png)
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Generally if they have flamers or a lot of fire like banshees, Hades ext... It is better to chem or you will just run laps of the ship putting out fires constantly anyway, then you have no time to repair and end up in a really bad situation. But if they have little-no fire based weapons/ammo chem can be more trouble than its worth, in which case you are better off with extinguisher ussually.
But keep in mind your crew and your own ability as well, on mobulas and bottom deck galleon chem cycles can be near impossible to maintain, especially if you have a less experienced gunner who means well by repairing his own gun but leaves no time between for you to chem ( Though that issue Can ussually be fixed fairly easily through good communication)
like practically everything in this game both work well, which one works better is very situational and personal preference.
I personally live by chem spray, it breaks my heart seeing all my beautiful components all non-chemmed and vulnerable.
PS: the CORRECT loadout order is spanner-mallet-fire tool
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I go mallet/buff - spanner/pipe - fire tool.
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Goldfish Junkers and Pyramidions need two chem sprays. The others *can* work with only 1 chem spray and the mobula can work with two extinguishers. I think the extinguisher should have 5 second immunity instead of 2. It's the weakest tool in the game.
The real correct order is chem mallet spanner. If you're bringing a buff that goes first.
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Goldfish Junkers and Pyramidions need two chem sprays.
interesting you should say that. One loadoyt which we used to run a lot on goldfish was spanner-mallet -buff for the hull engineer with standard kit on balloon engi.
the balloon engi ran a chem cycle main engine-balloon-
jump down next to the hull-front gun and repeat. It leaves little time for repairs and the side engines are exposed to fire but the spanner-mallet-buff really helped survivability.
unfortunately it was also really weak to balloon popping as when the balloon went down so did chem cycles, against an enemy with little fire however this didn't work too badly against us
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We've had this discussion some times before: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4975.0.html (https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4975.0.html)
Not that I mind having the discussion open again.
The conclusion from the previous discussion was, Chemspray is supreme in most circumstances. The Flamethrower (main source of fire) puts out too much stacks too damn fast for extinguisher to successfully fight it. And Chemspray fights little fires just as well as the extinguisher.
If you read through the previous discussion, you'll see I made quite an attempt to defend extinguisher. Right now, I think Chemspray is almost always the better tool.
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A good engi/ engi team can keep an entire ship sprayed in constantly in most scenarios. In my opinion, chem spray is always better at this stage in the game. I'd be ok with an extinguisher buff of some kind, but right now chem is better once you get used to it
Also, spanner/mallet master race
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I'm tired of seeing engineers chem spraying when a component should be repaired and there is no threat of fire. People are addicted to that stuff.
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I am guilty of that crime. I cannot speak for others, but I tend to lose rhythm on my cycles of I stop, so I kind of have to do a spray cycle, then a repair cycle or two, then another spray cycle. I need to learn to prioritize and stop being a robot on a track.
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Mallet first slot.
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Indreams I think that's pretty much as far as this will get XD
Dutch we all have our addictions, you have smoking or alcohol, we have chem. Its a medical condition I tell you!!!
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A good engi/ engi team can keep an entire ship sprayed in constantly in most scenarios. In my opinion, chem spray is always better at this stage in the game. I'd be ok with an extinguisher buff of some kind, but right now chem is better once you get used to it
Also, spanner/mallet master race
MALLET SPANNER, GLORIOUS LEADER.
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Spanner, Mallet, Chem.
Spanner, Mallet, Buff.
Spanner, Mallet, Chem.
All hail the pyramidion master race!
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Contrary to many people I prefer extinguisher most of the time because of faster cooldown and its versatility. Chem spray is good at negating suppression from flamers; you need it to return fire and the flamer becomes useless once balloon and hull is chemmed.
However, the small amount of fire stacks from other weapons often doesn't justify the 5s cooldown and weak extinguishing power of chem. If the balloon/hull loses chem in the middle of battle and take 1-5 fire stacks along with damage, it becomes a problem.
Also to point out something interesting: if an engine has 20 stacks of fire and taken damage in the middle of a battle, I will usually mallet first before extinguishing. This is especially if I am aware that the pilot requires the engines to maneuver immediately.
One of the beautiful things about playing main engineer is how often you have to be situationally aware and make decisions based on knowledge and quick thinking.
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Goldfish Junkers and Pyramidions need two chem sprays.
interesting you should say that. One loadoyt which we used to run a lot on goldfish was spanner-mallet -buff for the hull engineer with standard kit on balloon engi.
When I saw that loadout when we fought against the Gent team during the GOIO League, I assumed the spanner mallet buff was on balloon under the assumption the balloon would be constantly destroyed. It would give you a big advantage in blenderfish duels until you get flamed.
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Is my load-out okay?
(http://i.imgur.com/WYO6u5c.jpg)
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Is my load-out okay?
(http://i.imgur.com/WYO6u5c.jpg)
Not bad, but you need to switch out Range Finder for Moonshine.
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Is my load-out okay?
(http://i.imgur.com/WYO6u5c.jpg)
Not bad, but you need to switch out Range Finder for Moonshine.
Buff hammer first!!
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Is my load-out okay?
(http://i.imgur.com/WYO6u5c.jpg)
Not bad, but you need to switch out Range Finder for Moonshine.
Buff hammer first!!
Honestly, mallet 1st slot all the way. 1 just feels like a plain and strong number.... just like the mallet, and 2 looks a bit like the edge of a spanner anyway.
Also, rarely do you meet those engis who take fire tools in slot 1
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Also, rarely do you meet those engis who take fire tools in slot 1
We don't speak of those people.
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Wait wait. Hold on a bit, I've just gotten the hang of something here.
WHY DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT
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Maybe he beat the devs and got it that way.
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Nope he didn't get it on dev match 0.o
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Wait wait. Hold on a bit, I've just gotten the hang of something here.
WHY DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT
I had a cold scare as if a ghost touched my shoulder.
WHY DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT
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HOW DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT?
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HOW DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT?
HOW DOES GEO HAVE MASTER ENGINEER ELITE OUTFIT?
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Because he is master engineer elite
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Because he is master engineer elite
obv
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Because he is master engineer elite
obv
YOU BOTH KNOW, DON'T YOU
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Many people got the elite outfits before actually getting to that level before Geo managed to do it, but from what I heard when people ask Muse to give them the elite outfits as a price for dev match or as tournament prices, Muse refuses and tells them to reach the necessary level.
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I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
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What's an extinguisher?
mallet-spanner-chem
mallet-spanner-buff
wrench-buff-chem
Geo you're so pro you can keep your gun chemsprayed yourself.
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What's an extinguisher?
That thing Jacob used to use when he wrote the review "Worst Fire Fighting simulator ever."
Additional: St John's Ambulance motto: "Prevention is better than the cure." St John himself believes in Chem spray.
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
Ah. I see. I liked the design, might like to get me one.
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
They give you both?
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
They give you both?
Not both codes, however, I assume the Dust rider code is actually the Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider code, so it gives you both.
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
They give you both?
Not both codes, however, I assume the Dust rider code is actually the Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider code, so it gives you both.
So you get one code for two items?
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
They give you both?
Not both codes, however, I assume the Dust rider code is actually the Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider code, so it gives you both.
So you get one code for two items?
Yup.
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Thanks for the responses :D Helped.
I wonder if that would apply to the Dust rider coat too. I know it was for people who donated to the kickstarter or something like that.
I saw a very low leveled person with that the other day...
Asking for the Dust rider reward for a Dev match Gives you the Dust rider and Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider. I know this from experience.
They give you both?
Not both codes, however, I assume the Dust rider code is actually the Kickstarter Exclusive Dust Rider code, so it gives you both.
So you get one code for two items?
Yup.
Man, I wasted mine on a Khovansky Special Outifit...
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I think that's probably definitely not supposed to happen. Someone should let Jacob know
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I think that's probably definitely not supposed to happen. Someone should let Jacob know
No, Shhhh, abuse it DJ, ABUSE IT! FOR THE PEOPLE!
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Back on topic
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/national/tragic-twist-fire-extinguisher-factory-burns-down/nkckb/
Chem Spray wins.
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BREAKING NEWS!!! CHEMSPRAY FACTORY EXPLODES!!!
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BREAKING NEWS!!! CHEMSPRAY FACTORY EXPLODES!!!
Which covered a block that a Cake Party was being held. The Chemspray factory explosion prevented a firestorm today, saving countless lives.
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BREAKING NEWS!!! CHEMSPRAY FACTORY EXPLODES!!!
Which covered a block that a Cake Party was being held. The Chemspray factory explosion prevented a firestorm today, saving countless lives.
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130728002315/disneycreate/images/d/d9/DINKLEBERG.jpg
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Just had a thought about the fire extinguisher...
If you are a gunner, and you know you are going to face a flamethrower a lot, bring a fire extinguisher. Even if you bring heatsink.
A good flamethrower will focus their flames onto a gun, such that the gun is quickly disabled. And a flamethrower needs only a short window to put 10+ stacks of fire on a component.
And we've all been there. When your gun is too hot to shot. You can call down an engineer, and watch him try to cool your gun with Chem Spray. That's like that guy you called about your internet, not fast enough. Instead, you can let the gun break, and rebuild it, which also isn't fast enough.
Instead, you can bring an extinguisher, and put out your own fires. Unlike engineers, you can do your stuff while extinguisher is on cool down. If the gun gets too hot again, just spray it again, and get back on.
You could bring chem spray and heatsink to try an expert maintenance and keep your gun off fire, but that kinda reduces your dps, and some guns just won't work like that.
So yeah, gunner with extinguisher. A thought.
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Ext for gunners? Beyond crap.
Bringing an extinguisher stops you from rebuilding or repairing a gun. Thats never good. You also weaken your ships ability to tank.
Fire tools or buff hammers arent for gunners. Simple as that.
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Ext for gunners? Beyond crap.
Bringing an extinguisher stops you from rebuilding or repairing a gun. Thats never good. You also weaken your ships ability to tank.
Fire tools or buff hammers arent for gunners. Simple as that.
Saluted because I agree.
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Your engineer should keep your gun chem sprayed. This isn't difficult on any ship aside from mobula. If you're only facing flamethrowers and you have no confidence in your engineers then maybe you can bring chem. But there's never a real situation to bring a fire tool and especially not an extinguisher.
Fire extinguishers are a big no because your gun will take damage when it catches on fire along with the direct damage from the flame. With chem it will only deal direct damage so your gun will be healthier. Never sit on a reloading gun! Every single reload you need to get off it and use your tool(s). #1 player mistake is sitting on guns.
Here's a better tip: don't be a gunner. Gunners are utterly useless on almost all guns. Unless you're on a mine launcher or lumberjack there's absolutely no reason to be a gunner especially if you're afraid of fire. Gunners are a major liability and deal less damage. Gunners operate the most important gun which needs to do max damage and be max repaired.
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Let's rediscuss since Fire Extinguisher got a pretty good buff.
would you recommend the Fire Extinguisher to your crew now that it is a little more useful?
I think I would recommend them for the newer players, since it is easier to use effectively. But I think Chem still has Extinguisher beat.
And since Flame doesn't penetrate, you really only need to Chem hull, balloon, and gun/engines on the side that is getting flamed.
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I use extinguisher on hull side of mobula and on squid wrench buff extinguisher engi.
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Flamer still needs chem, but if there's, like, one or two banshees, ext.
Hades you're fucked anyway.
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Hades is for putting piercing damage at range. I never felt much emphasis on fire.
Haven't tried this myself, but I think the extinguisher against a flamer can give the gun a few moments to snipe the flamethrower. I think with banshee or gatling. I haven't played inn a bit, so I don't know.
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I'm sorry to disappoint, but if the enemy uses a single banshee and you have an extinguisher on the balloon, this balloon is going to die.
Extinguisher was not a bad choice on the mobula hull before. In my opinion it's now good on the upper deck of the spire too.
It might be useful on triple engineer setup on any ship if there's no need for mallet spanner buff loadout present.
Except for that, nothing changed.
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my personal preference is to use fire extinguisher if ive been tasked as main engi just because like you said, it get rid of the problem immediately but if im secondary/gungineer ill take the chem spray to keep the guns in working order :)
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If I'm maining on a Pyra or Goldfish, I go for chemspray. Works great in a long-range Pyramidion taking Hades shots - a spray here, a tap with the spanner there, no need to panic at all.
Does anyone use chemspray in a mobula? If so, does it depend on the build?
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If I'm maining on a Pyra or Goldfish, I go for chemspray. Works great in a long-range Pyramidion taking Hades shots - a spray here, a tap with the spanner there, no need to panic at all.
Does anyone use chemspray in a mobula? If so, does it depend on the build?
I take extinguisher on mobula when a lot of switching between top deck guns to lower deck guns happens, that's because you don't have time to go to chem between clips. But when you have a build that makes the engineer stay only on lower deck it is pretty reasonable to let him chem between clips - so I guess you can take it then.
In addition, it can also be situational with what the enemy is bringing, if there is no chance for long range fire, and you fear fire only in close range where the engineer will most likely spend his time on lower deck guns anyways because repairs - it is possible to take it for the close range potential fires.
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Does anyone use chemspray in a mobula? If so, does it depend on the build?
The standard for mobula is chem on the right and extinguisher on left. Balloons take too much damage from fire so you need chem to keep it healthy. The armor is less important on mobula than its high maneuverability and firepower so bringing extinguisher on right lets you react quickly.
Another reason is the mobula theory on the right and left sides. In general the left side is more reactive and the right side is more reliable. A common setup is for the left engi to start on the upper wing gun and move down at closer range while the right engi stays at the bottom gun. This means the right side is always next to the balloon and can keep chem cycles while the left side may be on the outer wing. Stamina is often more important on the left side to get to the hull/gun asap while the right side can use stamina for chem cycles and to time gun reloads. Because the right side is more reliable it's usually the location of the support or kill gun and chem lets you prepare to engage for longer. Chem can effectively be used on the left side too and might be a good idea if there are a lot of enemy banshees.
The pilot should bring extinguisher on mobula to extinguish the top gun. It's easy to jump and tap the gun and I've found extinguisher to be the most useful pilot tool for mobula. This lets you bring a gunner or spanner mallet buff engi on the top without worrying about gun fires. The main engine can catch on fire but it's less likely and not very harmful. Fire doesn't damage components much and main engines have the most health. When not in combat the left side engi can come and extinguish it.