Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Pickle on February 24, 2013, 10:01:16 am
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Welcome to Junker Fight Club.
The first rule of Junker Fight Club is: you do not talk about Junker Fight Club.
The second rule of Junker Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Junker Fight Club!
Third rule of Junker Fight Club: someone yells "Surrender!", plays dead, taps out, the fight is over.
Fourth rule: only six Junkers to a fight.
Fifth rule: one fight at a time, captains.
Sixth rule: No shirts, no shoes.
Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Junker Fight Club, you have to fight.
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Having established the rules.. this is the thread for discussion about the Junker. Love it or hate it, got a great idea how to use it, or just got a question..
Who knows, maybe we can even run an unofficial Junker Fight Club ladder.. ..
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I've always been a fan of the junker. It's ridiculously versatile as a weapons platform. You can get 3 light guns going, you can have asymmetric loud-outs, you can be a disable, you can tank, you can sit and absorb damage. Basically it can do anything that doesn't require hyper-speed.
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I initially saw the Junker only in the medium tank role..
F - Mercury for sniping in the long-range phase
LL - Whirlwind for armour destruction
LR - Whirlwind, or Carronade for baloon destruction
UL - Artemis for component/hull destruction
UR - Artemis
But I've been watching other people's set-ups and crewing a lot on the KGS Mars and KGS Mars II, and Captain Phoenix has opened my eyes to the long-range support platform role..
F - Artemis or Banshee or Carronade (it doesn't really matter, it's rarely going to be used)
LL - Light flak or Artemis
LR - Light flak or Artemis
UL - Mercury for long-range sniping
UR - Mercury
With Mercuries you can sit at long range, sniping with Lesmok and picking off enemy guns and engines. The Mercury is perfectly suited to the Engineer's gunnery position because you only need Lesmok for this role. The Gunner can use the lower Flak or Artemis effectively by switching between long-range and closer range ammunition types. I've considered going all-Mercury on one side, but that's a very weak build if any enemy ship manages to close on that side before you can rotate.
Park yourself a couple of map squares away with a good view of all approaches and wait for the enemy to come to you. Have your more nimble team mates patrolling in front and they can maintain arms length between the support Junker and the enemy, and you can provide sniper support taking out enemy the Hwachas and Heavy Flaks.
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On the subject of mercs, I have to disagree completely with using Lesmok on them. They already have enough range to hit any ship that you can see, and speed/drop shouldn't be a problem. Frankly, if the engineer needs Lesmok to hit with a merc, then they should probably work on their aim. Charged is much more useful thanks to the insane killing power it gives. At best, Lesmok is good for new players who don't have much experience aiming with the merc.
I am also personally a proponent of having an all-sniper side and a short range side. If you put a disabling gun on the front (flamer, rockets...), then you can minimize the effect that your foe can have while you turn. It doesn't take that long to turn around, either. And you might not even have to worry about their guns if you've disabled them with the mercs.
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I'll try that, the all sniper side. But I'd like to have a couple of faster ships on the team that I can trust to play the holding role - either a couple of Goldfish or a Goldfish and a Squid. If you've got two Merc on one side, what are you putting on the other side for close range effectiveness? - I'll guess a Whirlwind on the upper mount (got to work with the Engineer's Charged round ammo), but a carronade or Banshee on the lower? - I'm really liking the new fire damage from the Banshee.
I've tended to use Lesmok by default for long-range, but I think that's probably a habit I got into when absolutely every ship had a flamethrower - but I'm not trying to hit the enemy ship, I don't count hits in this role unless it takes out a weapon or engine. I'll give Charged a try next time. I'm not averse to hopping off the helm and having a pop with the upper-rear Mercury on a Junker.
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On the short range side I would put a gatling on top and a flak underneath, but with the new meta I'm not sure if that's viable anymore. It really does seem that the rocket carousel is the next big thing, so maybe I'm captain a ship for once and experiment with it.
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My go to ship, the Junker. My pride and joy, The Cloud Whaler.
With a chain gun on the UL and a Flak on the LL I've been able to chew through most opposition, even with the newbies I like to fly with when the terrible sky tyrant turns into the magic school bus.
On my right side and bowsprit I try to keep it fluid, or as needed.
Merc/Artemis is a tasty combination, with a banshee rocking the front. I've also tried flame and barker for that up in your grill kill. What's big for me is captain tools on this beast; kerosene is often a must, along with my tar that I can't live without. I'll adjust the fit depending on the opposition, such as some lionfish spitting rocket death at me, well that'll be chutes and hydrogen to keep me out of that things arc.
For squids I like to have tar and a Phoenix claw, as they love getting into my rear and I almost feel obliged to make the squid feel at home in a cloud of ink before I turn hard and bring a chain gun and flak into its face.
Galleons I'm loathe to take toe to toe, preferring to deal the killing blow while other ships soak up hits. Same goes for pyramidions, I'm not fond of them getting close to me.
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Whirlwind/Artemis can chew up a Galleon if you can drop onto it's stern and take out the stern gun - at least that was working before the last update, I haven't tried it since.
Tar Barrel is something I haven't tried since it was improved, although I did get caught in one last week and it was effective in annoying me and shutting down my engines as I chased my target through Canyon. Probably not as useful for the long-range support Junker. Drogue Chute is rapidly becoming a fixture for my Junkers, Impact Bumpers because if things ever do get close the strength of the Junker hull is worth using against your opponent (hopefully weakened by my guns as they approached), and that leaves me just one other tool for improved maneovering.
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General John Sedgwick Memorial build, aka They Couldn't Hit Elephants At This Distance build
Junker, long-range sniper platform
F - Banshee or Flamethrower (or Mercury on Canyon Blue SP build)
LL - Mercury Gun
LR - Whirlwind Gatling
UL - Mercury Gun
UR - Banshee Rockets
Pilot - brings Drogue Chute, this really takes the pressure off balloon repairs and keeps two guns firing as long as possible. The Pilot can also hit the balloon for repairs without moving from the helm. It's not unknown for the Pilot to also use the rear gun mount in the sniping role (usually a Mercury on the rear sniper-side mount). Because the Pilot can make easy repairs to the baloon, the penalties for Hydrogen and Chute Vent aren't so severe - and the Junker isn't going to ourun a fight, so up and down maneuvering is useful.
Engineer 1 - mans the rear sniper weapon using Charged Rounds (if the Pilot isn't using it) or nips up to juggle the helm if the ship drifts (if the pilot is sniping), mans the rear CQB weapon (on the other side) if an enemy closes and the ship rotates to face it. Attends to the balloon in direst emergency (but see point about Drogue Shoot above). When the situation is less combat-focussed this Engineer runs around bringing everything up to full strength. This Engineer is responsible for emergency repairs to maneouvering engines when the Pilot needs them (the Pilot should maintain situational awareness and call the Engineer from the gun when needed).
Engineer 2 - camps the hull during combat, may make a dash to the balloon or the rear weapons mounts during cool-down pauses but never strays too far from the hull. The Engineers can end up swapping roles during a match depending on where they find themselves after emergency repairs when a target presents itself. It's possible to organise the Engineers to swap rolles between sniping and CQB broadside (allowing the second Engineer to use Burst ammo), but this requires good communication and coordination - most games I play the Engineer in this role never shoots.
Gunner - has responsibilty for shooting and repairing the lower deck and forward guns during combat when they are needed. All Gunners should bring Heatsink to cope with Banshee and flamers - it takes the pressure off the Engineers in CQB. The Engineer also makes emergency repairs to the main engine if the Engineer's are in crisis mode on the upper deck. Attempts by the Engineer to repair the hull from below take a lot of skill and seem to be hit-or-miss.
(crew details copied across from my post on the How to engineer efficiently on different types of ships (Part 1) (http://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,104.0.html) thread)
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First... New forums! :o Haven't been here for a while. Looking good.
Anyway, to the thread subject. I definitely like the idea of sharing piloting duties on a sniping Junker with one of your Engineers. This allows the Pilot to take Lesmok or Charged Rounds for the long range sniping, while allowing the secondary Engineer to take Heatsinks, or an ammo type that compliments your upper close range gun on the non-sniping side.
This Engineer makes subtle tweaks to ship position to keep the Mercuries in range (also taking the Chute Vent item) having the pilot take the wheel when an enemy ship gets close, or when they are using fire to disable your weapons (if your Engineer took Heatsinks.) This also allows this Engineer to better watch ship components while at long range, since he has a better view of the ship from the wheel than from a gun (and you aren't losing that gun when he's forced to go repair.) At long range, there's no need for a pilot to be at the wheel 100% of the time, anyway. You might as well let your two Engineers do what they do best and look after the ship, while the Pilot and Gunner man the weapons.
-Macheath.
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the way i like to fly a junker is
F- rocket launcher or banshee
LL- flack or mortar LR - flack or mortar
UL - machinegun UR - machinegun
for skill i take phoenix claw and tar barrel and usally hidrogen but the last skill usally isnt importart.
i like to follow behind my team as a support ship. they get the enemys attention while i spend as much time as possible haveing all 3 guns pointing their way.
if shit hits the fan the person on the front gun can hop off and repair and i usally do the same if the ship dosnt need to manuver much, or i get the engi off the machinegun and i get on it
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Does anyone use a Junker build that doesn't include the Whirlwind? (Gatling/chain gun/machinegun)
It's struck me that I never use a Junker without at least one Whirlwind (in the sniper role) or a pair (in the close defence role). I know I listed one such build at the start, but I don't see this build very often now.
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My junker build has changed a bit and does not include a whirlwind.
I've got the rocket sling and merc on the right, with a chain flak combo on the left. In addition, my bowsprit gun is now the Harpoon, because I couldn't be the Cloud Whaler without a harpoon.
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"chain flak combo" - surely that's a Whirlwind (chain) and a Light Flak?
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Something Junker crews and Captains tend to forget..
.. the balloon is one of the Junkers few strengths, if the Captain brings Drogue Chute the crew can ignore damage to the balloon right up until the ship starts sinking close to the ground. This is important, it allows the crew to keep two guns firing and hopefully finish off the target before having to break-off and repair. If a Junker has only one gun firing, it's not being effective.
I've hinted at this before, but it was buried in a longer post.
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I usually call that a Gat-Flak, Like a Gat-flak-midion.
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.. the balloon is one of the Junkers few strengths, if the Captain brings Drogue Chute the crew can ignore damage to the balloon right up until the ship starts sinking close to the ground. This is important, it allows the crew to keep two guns firing and hopefully finish off the target before having to break-off and repair. If a Junker has only one gun firing, it's not being effective.
While this is definitely a great strategy when finishing a kill and in certain 1v1 engagements, caution should be taken in leaving a Junker with a broken balloon for too long. Besides the slow plummet into the ground, any hits into a broken balloon go directly to the hull component effectively quadrupling the hit box of the junker making it a much easier target for a clever gunner or a poorly directed shot.
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Keep an eye out for Junker Fight Club games on the match list, they should be tagged "JFC" in the match name.
Due to a few problems with Captains failing to understand the main principle of JFC (Junkers only) these are likely to be set-up as Private matches.
Keeping things simple, the current password to use is "junker"
Again keeping things simple.. no complex rules, sort it out against yourselves as to which match you set-up.
There are some competitive scrimmages planned for the future, these will be ship or team based with no persistence - if there's a contest it's done and dusted in one evening and not rolling on for weeks, months or eternity.
Some rough formats have been sketched out including:
- Whale Wars - some guidance on the already established rules for this would be appreciated, it predates Junker Fight Club. All Junker, all harpoon, rebuilds but no repairs, preferred map is Fjords.
- Balloons and Blunderbusses - a TMMITFM reference. All Junker, all carronade, preferred map is Duel.
- Winner Stays On - pub pool players will recognise this basic principal for queuing challengers in a King of The Map contest.
- Feuer und flame - not the very good fondue restaurant Am Comeniusplatz, but a very rough idea for a flame-ship contest. All Junker, all flamer, tar barrel to be permanently active, no preferred map (yet)
Make your mark on this thread if you're interested.. this isn't a commitment to form a team. In fact it would be nice if only the ship names were the constant for each Captain and crews irregularly mixed themselves up to trade hints, tips, skills, experience and ideas.
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First Junker Fight Club scrimmages start this week.. no fixed time at the moment but watch out for JFC or Junker Fight Club named matches in the lobby over the next week and/or advertised here. The password for private games is, "junker".
The first format is..
Balloons and Blunderbusses.
All Junker, all Carronade and whilst Duel at Dawn is preferred, any map will do. The use of Drogue Chute is considered unsporting and ungentlemanly behaviour, but it isn't banned as a rule as it can't be monitored.
And remember, JFC is JFF -Junker Fight Club is Just For Fun.
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but it isn't banned as a rule as it can't be monitored.
Untrue.... With the new spectator mode, you can monitor this quite nicely.... however this is just for fun, and it's not really important... If I can, I will make at least one of these :)
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Hopefully my Admiral Quackbar can make a showing.
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but it isn't banned as a rule as it can't be monitored.
Untrue.... With the new spectator mode, you can monitor this quite nicely.... however this is just for fun, and it's not really important... If I can, I will make at least one of these :)
Oh.. so it can.. but that would require a referee in Spectator mode, and JFC is about flying, not watching. At least that's my excuse for not getting the rules so complicated that an official adjudicator is require to say "Go", watch for who rams first, check people go round a marker, or timekeep. Fights will go on as long as they have to.. ..
Sammy BT.. glad to register your interest.. myself, (The Amazing) Captain Phoenix, Shinkurex and a several Captains that Cpt Phoenix spoke to last night have all expressed an interest.
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this event will get the full support from
The Flying Dutchmen
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A test junker fight club game is going to be on around 9pm BST on friday to any that can make it on short notice its only a game to see how many can make it so there will not be any scoring and it will probably be a Balloons and Blunderbusses game. the game name will be "JFC" password is of course "Junker" to any who cant be asked to go back up the page
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I am starting to fall in love with the Junker again but need some tips on handling pyra's (may their captains burn in a special hell). They always seem to have the upper hand in a close range punch out and though I have been able to drop them with wonderful engi's and gunners working the ship that is less likely to happen with a skilled Pyra pilot.
They have the speed, the maneuverability, and an equal match or typically one gun more in firepower. I seem to fair average with most other ships but pyra's are absolutely frustrating since they all seem to fight the same ( the gatling/flak combo with the attempt to circle your ship in close combat while ripping apart the hull). Is there any advantage to the Junker besides being able to take more hits and hoping to drop the other bastard with superior gun play in this sort of fight?
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Junker v. Pyramidion is a hopeless fight. It's a sad state of affairs.
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Tar barrel helps against a Pyra, he really wants to get close into your stern blind-spot. If you can get him into your arcs, it's not easy to take out both forward guns on a Pyra but a good gunner can do it with heavy clip on a gatling. If your Junker is set-up for tanking (dual flaks on lower mounts, dual gatlings on upper) you can deal quite a bit of damage back. But if the Pyra knows what he's doing and has you in a trifecta with a pure brawling build (so you have trained on you one gatling and two flaks), you're going to need teammate support. But a trifecta has a disadvantage - there's no one fixing if you're able to do some damage back.
What the mine launcher will do for the Junker remains to be seen.
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I have to respectfully disagree about the tar barrel on the junker being effective against a Pyra. For someone who flies the Pyra a good bit, I must say my general strategy against a Junker is to simply shoot it. I don't care much about what side I'm on, the Junker arc is too large to make it worth manuevering about and in a 1v1 fight, I can usually just go shot for shot and out tank it.
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Some games are going to be set up but I would like to know in advance any dates which are preferred in the next 3 weeks so as we can get a few teams together and play a couple of good games
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NO MORE JUNKER RAVE PARTIES PLEASE!
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NO MORE JUNKER RAVE PARTIES PLEASE!
I think he's referring to the one gametype you didn't mention, Junker Rave. Simply, junkers with Flare guns, although I guess you can strap whatever rules onto it you want following that.
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Cant wait to join my first JFC battle