Main > Gameplay
Achievement system flaw
Surette:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 12, 2013, 01:52:27 pm ---What I don't understand is why you are defending the status quo of something you don't care about. Then changing it shouldn't cause any issue to you right? What me and other people in this thread are asking is just for the achievement to be all readly available without having to complete them in a specific order, except for the ones that are just "more of the same".
That doesn't sound unreasnable or game breaking to me.
And about level... It matters for 2 things: first, it allows you to unlock cosmetic items without having to spend real money on them. That alone is reason enough.
But then you have to consider that level is supposed to be an indicator of your experience and, up to a certain point, your skill. I'm not bragging but I am a pretty good pilot, thus I want my level to be high enough to represent my skill, so I try to improve my level as quickly as possibile.
Is it necessary? No, but it's something I enjoy and getting enjoyment out of playing is what video games are all about.
So why exactly are you opposed to changes to the achievement system? Why do you enjoy it more in its current form? That's what I would like to understand.
--- End quote ---
Basically what Imagine said.
Do I think the achievement system is perfect? No, most systems aren't. But I'm certainly not actively bothered by it and I actually think it works fairly well. I'd much rather have Muse focus on other game issues than working on an entire rework of the achievement system. And sorry, but "level matters because it unlocks cosmetic items" is just silly. They don't affect any actual game mechanics. I understand thinking that levels represent some measure of skill, but that's really not the case, and that's what I love about the existing system. I love that level 1s have access to everything that level 13s do, and I love that a team of level 2s who communicate well can take down a team of level 10s who don't work well together.
So in short, I wouldn't be opposed to any and all changes to the achievement system, but overall I'm happy with it and I think Muse's efforts would be best spent in other areas of the game.
Plasmarobo:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 12, 2013, 01:52:27 pm ---
--- Quote from: Surette on June 12, 2013, 11:34:36 am ---Plasma summed it up perfectly. Serenum, I understand that you care about your level and that's fine, but to say you're being forced to do anything is just false. I ignore the achievements I don't want to do and my levels are just fine. Having a higher level doesn't unlock anything for me, so it's not like I'm forced to put up with farming achievements in order to use a play style that I haven't unlocked yet. I can play the game exactly how I like from level 1.
--- End quote ---
What I don't understand is why you are defending the status quo of something you don't care about. Then changing it shouldn't cause any issue to you right? What me and other people in this thread are asking is just for the achievement to be all readly available without having to complete them in a specific order, except for the ones that are just "more of the same".
That doesn't sound unreasnable or game breaking to me.
And about level... It matters for 2 things: first, it allows you to unlock cosmetic items without having to spend real money on them. That alone is reason enough.
But then you have to consider that level is supposed to be an indicator of your experience and, up to a certain point, your skill. I'm not bragging but I am a pretty good pilot, thus I want my level to be high enough to represent my skill, so I try to improve my level as quickly as possibile.
Is it necessary? No, but it's something I enjoy and getting enjoyment out of playing is what video games are all about.
So why exactly are you opposed to changes to the achievement system? Why do you enjoy it more in its current form? That's what I would like to understand.
--- End quote ---
I do care about the levels.
[realtalk]
I sort of think of it like meta-breakout.
You've got a set of cells, right? Some are locked at low levels, but you still have a bunch. Then on each cell is a linear progression. Each cell represents a 'theme'. Once you do more of the basic stuff, you unlock more challenging or game-broadening themes. Sometimes these take less time to unlock, but they challenge the way I think about the game, and challenge which things I consider good and bad.
I've realized through this system that nothing in this game is really 'good' or 'bad'. It really comes down to 'I know how to use this effectively' or 'I am unsure how to employ this'. Instead of being a test of how well I grind (so many games out there do grinding, go play one of them if you want to grind levels) it is a test of how willing I am to learn. That is what makes this whole game awesome.
You've got to learn. You've got to work well with others.
The locked progression gives character and accessibility to the system.
I think my little theory goes something like this:
If you play with people around your level, they should have roughly the same achievements. You can swap tips if you have different ones. Not sure if that's why the dev's do it, but it's a little side-effect.
Later on, the system does open up. But the linear progression still provides rate-limiting. I feel that maybe they could be ranked by difficulty or something, but I like that the system has charater. Too many games cop out and give up, telling the players to do what they want.
Guns has a unique system. I'd hate to see it watered down. Even flaws become happy little quirks if you deal with them enough. I've worked pretty hard on some of the achievements, and I'm proud of my modest level. But I honestly believe that doing them helped me to be a better pilot.
[/realtalk]
So my reasons are pretty personal.
I like difficult, clunky things that people rally around. I also play Dwarf Fortress. Go figure.
Serenum:
--- Quote from: Plasmarobo on June 12, 2013, 05:31:06 pm --- I also play Dwarf Fortress.
--- End quote ---
Next time please put the relevant bit at the start of your post, this explains everything! :D
Audie Murphy:
My stance on this is a bit unforgiving:
Your level is a measure of your experience. I want to be able to see your level and have a bit of a general idea of what to expect from you, so that I can make decisions accordingly. I want to be able to safely assume that a lvl 9 gunner knows how to aim a lumberjack, and that a lvl 6 engineer knows where the balloon on my ship is.
If it were me, I would make the achievement system even LESS forgiving to people who don't branch out.
If some people are unhappy that they have to fly ships or man guns that they don't like in order to get achievements: I'm sorry but tough shit. Because I don't want to find out mid-game that my gunner didn't bring the right ammo types for my gun because he got all the way to lvl 8 without ever touching it because "he didn't like it."
This game is about teamwork, and part of being a team player is having the flexibility to perform the role that the team needs. I don't think that people who refuse fly certain ships, or refuse to use certain guns, because they don't like them should be as high a rank.
Lovex Lazil:
First of all I don't know why you're so concerned with the achievements.
They're designed so people who want to aim for them and claim cosmetic rewards or just a higher title in game.
I also enjoy the fact that they "FORCE" me as you would say to do things I usually wouldn't ever use or do; Granted that it may put myself and my team at a disadvantage when I have to rebuild X parts in y seconds of destruction as a gunner but it's long term goal is to "train" and "educate" players in what high level or even competitive play can be like and that's why I"m confused in why you're angry about this?
If you're top the type to learn or try new things then simply don't do the achievements? Nobody is forcing you to do them although the level progression is tied in together with the achievements it's basically a quick buffer for most players. Example being If I see a level 11 Pilot I can be dam sure he knows what he is doing and won't have any problems, just like having a level 7+ gunner I can be sure he knows what ammo to bring with him for each gun to be useful as well as knowing how to shoot each gun.
That's how I view the achievements in this game compared to other games; the view being that it's an extended tutorial in a sense that it makes you use combinations of ammo/tools/guns and tactics you normally wouldn't. :D
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