Main > Gameplay
Achievement system flaw
Serenum:
Not a fan of this achievement system at all.
It forces often unnatural and counterproductive gameplay (gunner with fire extinguisher?) and it forces me to use ships I don't like. I struggled to get the Goldfish achievements because the Goldfish is my least favourite ship, playing with it was a chore and no mattaer how many games I did with it I didn't like it any better.
Thing is, if you want to give incentives to experiment and try other ships then make it totally optional and separated form leveling. It could maybe give specific cosmetic items, but leveling should be something natural, that everyone can do just playing the game. Level matters to me in this game because I'm a pretty good pilot and I want my level to represent that.
I shouldn't have to cripple my stats because I was forced to play a ship I don't really like in order to level up.
Surette:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 11, 2013, 05:53:27 pm ---Not a fan of this achievement system at all.
It forces often unnatural and counterproductive gameplay (gunner with fire extinguisher?) and it forces me to use ships I don't like. I struggled to get the Goldfish achievements because the Goldfish is my least favourite ship, playing with it was a chore and no mattaer how many games I did with it I didn't like it any better.
Thing is, if you want to give incentives to experiment and try other ships then make it totally optional and separated form leveling. It could maybe give specific cosmetic items, but leveling should be something natural, that everyone can do just playing the game. Level matters to me in this game because I'm a pretty good pilot and I want my level to represent that.
I shouldn't have to cripple my stats because I was forced to play a ship I don't really like in order to level up.
--- End quote ---
But it doesn't force you to do anything. If your goal is to complete every achievement ever, then you're probably not the type to care about unnatural gameplay. If your level matters to you as you say, then that's fine. You can still reach quite a high level even if you ignore all of the achievements you don't like. I still don't understand when people say they're forced to play in a way they don't like. I don't feel forced into doing anything. I haven't completed that gunner with extinguisher achievement because it'd be silly for me to take an extinguisher as a gunner, and that's okay. If I was a completionist, I'd worry about it. But I'm not.
(Also, in my humble opinion, a good pilot is able to fly with any ship -- or at least most of them.)
Parkourwalrus:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 11, 2013, 05:53:27 pm ---Not a fan of this achievement system at all.
It forces often unnatural and counterproductive gameplay (gunner with fire extinguisher?) and it forces me to use ships I don't like. I struggled to get the Goldfish achievements because the Goldfish is my least favourite ship, playing with it was a chore and no mattaer how many games I did with it I didn't like it any better.
Thing is, if you want to give incentives to experiment and try other ships then make it totally optional and separated form leveling. It could maybe give specific cosmetic items, but leveling should be something natural, that everyone can do just playing the game. Level matters to me in this game because I'm a pretty good pilot and I want my level to represent that.
I shouldn't have to cripple my stats because I was forced to play a ship I don't really like in order to level up.
--- End quote ---
No offense, but GOI is not a game where stats, at least those like k/d or such matter. If you really think your stats are that important, then you could just be a lumberfish. They are probably the easiest to pilot with if you're good, as most stuff relies on your gunner, so if you can get a good gunner on your ship, and you are not terrible, than you should be able to get that achievement.
Serenum:
--- Quote from: Surette on June 11, 2013, 06:29:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 11, 2013, 05:53:27 pm ---Not a fan of this achievement system at all.
It forces often unnatural and counterproductive gameplay (gunner with fire extinguisher?) and it forces me to use ships I don't like. I struggled to get the Goldfish achievements because the Goldfish is my least favourite ship, playing with it was a chore and no mattaer how many games I did with it I didn't like it any better.
Thing is, if you want to give incentives to experiment and try other ships then make it totally optional and separated form leveling. It could maybe give specific cosmetic items, but leveling should be something natural, that everyone can do just playing the game however you want. Level matters to me in this game because I'm a pretty good pilot and I want my level to represent that.
I shouldn't have to cripple my stats because I was forced to play a ship I don't really like in order to level up.
--- End quote ---
But it doesn't force you to do anything. If your goal is to complete every achievement ever, then you're probably not the type to care about unnatural gameplay. If your level matters to you as you say, then that's fine. You can still reach quite a high level even if you ignore all of the achievements you don't like. I still don't understand when people say they're forced to play in a way they don't like. I don't feel forced into doing anything. I haven't completed that gunner with extinguisher achievement because it'd be silly for me to take an extinguisher as a gunner, and that's okay. If I was a completionist, I'd worry about it. But I'm not.
(Also, in my humble opinion, a good pilot is able to fly with any ship -- or at least most of them.)
--- End quote ---
Uhm... Yes it does? If I want to complete an achievement I am obviously forced to do so in the way the achievement is set up. I can't complete an achievement for the Goldfish using the Galleon, thus if I want that achievement I am forced to play as the Goldfish.
Making assumptions like "if you care about achievement you shouldn't care for unnatural gameplay" is just a logical fallacy, in this game achievements=leveling and while I normally don't care about achievements I do care about leveling. In most games leveling is tied to experience and just playing the game however you want, thus I can ignore achievement to pursue the objective of leveling up, in this game I cannot do that.
As for stats and k/d ratio not counting that is also a subjective opinion, the game provides me with comprehensive stats for my character, thus I care for said stats, be it k/d ratio, level and all that good stuff.
If the game didn't want me to care then such stats would be hidden and/or there wouldn't be a leveling system at all.
If something is a feature in the game then it's logical to care about it.
Also, I don't like the Goldfish, not even a Lumberfish, I do just fine with Squid and Galleon, thanks. I can pilot other ships, which I would argue are easier to pilot then the Squid and the Galleon (at least if you want to win), I just don't want to because I don't like them.
JaegerDelta:
Right, so this topic is still going on.
Think of it this way. The levels in Guns of Icarus represent renown and not experience (you can also view interpersonal relationships of the players as a secondary renown system, basically like known with in the airship world but not really in the world at large). you complete achievements (i.e. great actions) and thus your renown in the Guns of Icarus universe increases and you receive more and more prestigious titles from the various places and people in the world.
now i know the achievement tree system is the main direction this debate has gone to. but im still confused by it. in an RPG people dont get pissed when you cant put your points in whatever you want right away, skill trees are basically standard.
Since this game is purely co-op pvp. the skill of the player in different roles is representative of that skill tree. Say an engineer gets better at floating gunning and repair. that would correlate to the multi-classing tree within the engineer tree. and they will end up getting more multi-classing achievements. and eventually a higher renown in the world as and engineer.
Achievements are supposed to be challenges. its supposed to be a great accomplishment in universe. If you are going to be the kind of person who sets out to build their renown in the world. be ready for a challenge. otherwise, if you are setting out to be just great at what you do. you will eventually get the achievements, and thus world renown (i.e. level) will be slower to rise. but your secondary renown (i.e. renown among airship crews) will grow quickly.
tl:dr Achievements are pvp equivalent of skill trees in this game. level represents completion of great deeds. Achievements are supposed to be challenges. be challenged. you are a character in the world.
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