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PvP 2v2 with Special Abilities
Urz:
The balance of this game is already tenuous. Full ship disables and low time-to-kill setups are common. Any ability which increases damage output beyond what it currently is will lead to a degenerate game state where either:
A) Offensive abilities are the strongest. Ships run multiple gunners and pop all their damage abilities in the first volley to get the fastest possible kill.
B) Defensive abilities are better than offensive abilities (either because of numbers or duration). Ships utilize engineer abilities to make themselves unable to be killed, creating a boring period at the start of every fight where nobody can do real damage.
Powerful, single-use (or long cooldown) abilities create perverse gameplay incentives in an environment designed to be slow and tactical. Every single fight will revolve around ships poking at each other to try and bait out the opposing "ultimates", only for them to immediately disengage, hiding, as the ability timer fades away.
Bringing Alliance abilities to PvP is not a new or original suggestion (I would go as far as call it "lazy"), but with even a basic understanding of the balance and tempo of a Guns of Icarus match you would realize it's a bad idea.
(Not that I'm opposed to testing bad ideas if it requires minimal development work.)
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: Urz on July 07, 2018, 01:02:13 am ---The balance of this game is already tenuous. Full ship disables and low time-to-kill setups are common. Any ability which increases damage output beyond what it currently is will lead to a degenerate game state where either:
A) Offensive abilities are the strongest. Ships run multiple gunners and pop all their damage abilities in the first volley to get the fastest possible kill.
B) Defensive abilities are better than offensive abilities (either because of numbers or duration). Ships utilize engineer abilities to make themselves unable to be killed, creating a boring period at the start of every fight where nobody can do real damage.
Powerful, single-use (or long cooldown) abilities create perverse gameplay incentives in an environment designed to be slow and tactical. Every single fight will revolve around ships poking at each other to try and bait out the opposing "ultimates", only for them to immediately disengage, hiding, as the ability timer fades away.
Bringing Alliance abilities to PvP is not a new or original suggestion (I would go as far as call it "lazy"), but with even a basic understanding of the balance and tempo of a Guns of Icarus match you would realize it's a bad idea.
(Not that I'm opposed to testing bad ideas if it requires minimal development work.)
--- End quote ---
it requires no dev work, as we can do this now. People who just blow all their ults, or save all their ults overly, will not find this game mode I'm suggesting fun at all. Cooldowns don't matter until you die, so running to wait for the cooldown is not a valid tactic. I DO have a basic understanding of the balance and tempo of a match, and with that understanding, I disagree with the entirety of your statement.
Urz:
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on July 07, 2018, 05:46:55 am ---Cooldowns don't matter until you die, so running to wait for the cooldown is not a valid tactic.
--- End quote ---
In the hypothetical strategy I suggested: you would be waiting out the duration of the abilities, not the cooldown. If your opponent uses any abilities, but is unable to follow up and actually kill you, your opponent is then at the disadvantage of having less abilities available to them in subsequent fights.
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: Urz on July 07, 2018, 10:29:39 am ---
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on July 07, 2018, 05:46:55 am ---Cooldowns don't matter until you die, so running to wait for the cooldown is not a valid tactic.
--- End quote ---
In the hypothetical strategy I suggested: you would be waiting out the duration of the abilities, not the cooldown. If your opponent uses any abilities, but is unable to follow up and actually kill you, your opponent is then at the disadvantage of having less abilities available to them in subsequent fights.
--- End quote ---
In that situation, then the team that used their ability timed it poorly and was outplayed. You shouldn't be using the abilities if you aren't confident that you can capitalize on it.
Urz:
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on July 07, 2018, 12:31:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: Urz on July 07, 2018, 10:29:39 am ---In the hypothetical strategy I suggested: you would be waiting out the duration of the abilities, not the cooldown. If your opponent uses any abilities, but is unable to follow up and actually kill you, your opponent is then at the disadvantage of having less abilities available to them in subsequent fights.
--- End quote ---
In that situation, then the team that used their ability timed it poorly and was outplayed. You shouldn't be using the abilities if you aren't confident that you can capitalize on it.
--- End quote ---
Again, an environment where you gain a large advantage by baiting out abilities with non-committal charges will incentivize endless disengagement. You say "they were outplayed", but if you know that your opponent is playing to bait you, when will you ever be sure that you can get the kill (especially with defensive abilities that will not increase your damage output). A decent pilot in a fast ship can escape from most fights. Are you only going to play Stormbreaker, Shrike, and Goldfish, to improve your ability to chase?
This will create a one-strategy metagame revolving around a specific band of ships effective at executing that strategy (fast ships).
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