Dev App Testing change-log: 18 August, 2017

[Inkjet]

Hwacha:

• 5 jitter (from 4)

Minotaur

• 18 Piercing Direct damage
• 45 Shatter AoE damage
• 100000 Knockdown
  
• 0.66 RoF (from 0.33)
• 3 buckshots (from 5)
• 7 shots (from 4)
• 8 second reload (from 10)
• 800 velocity (from 550)
• 2 jitter (from 3.5)
• 40 deg arcs (from 30)
• 40 deg/s rotation speed (from 20)

Minotaur v2

• 0.66 RoF (from 0.33)
• 1/2 current force
• 60 piercing (from 90)
• 80 shatter (from 225)
• 6s reload (from 10)
• 40 deg arcs
• 40 deg/s turn speed (from 20)
• 800m/s (from 550)
• 2 jitter (from 3.5)

Judgement

• 20% Force reduction from all engines
• Reduced Vertical Acceleration to 3.5
• Balloon hitbox moved upward
• 12 deg/s Turn Speed
• 3.5 deg/s^2 Turn Acceleration

Incendiary

• 100 AccelerateFires

[Corporal Ravioli]

[...]100000 Knockdown[...]

[...]]1/2 current force[...]

Is this referring to the same characteristic?

[Richard LeMoon]

Yes. The Minotaur in the main game has 200,000 N or force per buckshot on primary and secondary damage, for a total of 400,000 N. There are 5 buckshot in main Minotaur, with a combined force of 2 million N if all 5 hit.

The tested Minotaur cut the force in half, so only had 100,000x2 (200,000) N force per buckshot. In addition, there were 3 buckshot per shot, so the combined force if all three hit is 600,000 N instead of 2 million. However, the 2 jitter instead of 3.5 means a lot more of those are hitting, which is why the 3 buckshot version was OP as far as force.

The reason for the variation is the stats were copied from different sources, with the v2 one being added last minute to see if we could test two versions at once. This caused a a mistake, since the 7 shot version used per-buckshot damage, and the 4 shot version used per-shot damage. This ended up with an increase of damage instead of a reduction, so we have delayed v2 testing until next week.

[BlackenedPies]

The tested Minotaur cut the force in half, so only had 100,000x2 (200,000) N force per buckshot. In addition, there were 3 buckshot per shot, so the combined force if all three hit is 600,000 N instead of 2 million. However, the 2 jitter instead of 3.5 means a lot more of those are hitting, which is why the 3 buckshot version was OP as far as force.

3.5 vs 2 jitter is irrelevant in terms of buckshots hitting because you always use heavy clip or are close enough to not need heavy clip. Every buckshot always hits, and all buckshots hitting doesn't necessarily mean it's effective. Even if every shot hits it's possible to have zero impact on their horizontal movement or even move them in the opposite direction you intend. Therefore, currently the only time you don't use heavy clip is for very close range, and shatter damage also plays a critical role (also proposed to be heavily nerfed)

Reducing jitter increases the effective range of not needing heavy clip - nothing else. In it's current implementation, that would be welcome

Its role is mid-long range and is beaten at closer ranges by Hwatcha and Hcarro. Reducing force with a high clip count just makes it worse and more frustrating to fight against. Low force and low damage remove both of it's advantages in the initial engagement and closing range defense. Low force is countered by moonshine/kero, and low shatter damage means less skill and more buffs necessary (hence the bloated change list). I never heard any vet claim current minotaur is OP in damage or force, in fact it's balanced besides the high aiming difficulty and extremely slow cycle time - second only to flare...

[Corporal Ravioli]

you always use heavy clip or are close enough to not need heavy clip.

[Additionally, any "you always ____" comments]

I don't know if this is the proper place to bring this up (the thread, but also this forum in general to be honest), but it continues to rub me when forum posters use this kind of language. There's a palpable schism between the elite and common players, and I feel that a lot of the communication, theorycraft, game development, etc. has a complete disregard for those common players. AKA, the majority of the playerbase.

Fine-tuning a rigorous meta is important for high-tier and competition-tier play, but it absolutely boggles me when this mutates into assumptions about the game as a whole.

It is SO important to game design that ALL players be considered when identifying and addressing changes. I've maintained a small worry that the player council lending more and more of a hand in development may distort the game into even more of a prestige belly-rub. Wether that's fully relevant to these specific changes is not my concern, but this forum is chuck-full of this kind of language.

Am I overreacting to and extrapolating from this specific quote? Yes. However - is this a reply based on a cumulative impression from experienced players and developers since 2013? Also yes.

I'm sorry if this is out of place. I'm not going to start a thread.

[Corporal Ravioli]

Since I appear to not be allowed to edit my posts on this sub-board (why?), I want to amend my post with a clarification:

but this forum is chuck-full of language that suggests game design should cater to whatever ammunition/build/behavior the players are proclaiming as a... requirement.

Edit: Apparently I can edit my posts on this board, but it's barring me from doing so on just that most recent post. Bizarre.

[Long Max]

Ravioli, it looks like you have a problem with the fact that someone else might think two steps ahead. Problem of balance this game in you can load any rounds in any gun, it make it twice hard to balance, or ten times. Reduced to 3 rounds magazine stopped me before from using heavy rounds too much. Low velocity still stop me now, you can just miss moving target, some player even prefer lesmok to fire mid range today. With coming increased velocity and current max range you just need heavy to solve last problem with jitter, and you will have really long range gun. Setting stats for damage-push force better keep it in mind.