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BlackenedPies:
--- Quote from: Naoura on July 20, 2017, 10:12:19 am ---Well, here's a counter to that; how would incresed drop really affect the Gatling, which has no drop, or the Banshee, which has the same issue.
--- End quote ---
Exactly... So why make a change that only affects half the guns? If jitter, drop, and speed were all changed then it would affect all guns. It's not elegant but is more balanced than an extreme jitter value
Another discussion I remember was reducing ROF or DMG. That kills its use in light carro and Lflak and doesn't effect Gat much due it its high clip and very slow empty time. Jitter is a great solution for Gat but I would've never guessed the end result of 90% and nothing else
Naoura:
The change for only half the guns are the half of the guns that greased is used exclusively in. Sure, you can use Heatsink(old) and have a somewhat higher DPC, but you want DPS, not DPC. Sure, you could use Heavy, and scatter some component sniping in there, but you want DPS, not component sniping. You could use Incen (blegh), get some fires stacked on, but you're doing so little DPS.
That's why Greased. Just spam it into the enemy and they'll drop eventually. No point in using any other ammo.
Other weapons have other choices, where very few would be considered "unworthy". Charged can find a place on most weapons, even if underused. Loch easily finds a place on other weapons, though not on some. Lesmok, I need not talk about, it's a standard. Heatsink(old) can find a place anywhere. Incen is useable on a good majority of light weapons. Heavy can be used on some specifically, and situationally on others.
The overall idea as I can see it was to encourage utilizing other ammo types in weapons Greased was used specifically. Do I agree with it? Only slightly, as they didn't give anything to compensate with the drastically increased jitter. For what they wanted, an incredibly close range weapon designed for max dps, I would have given it higher ROF, to futher incentivize use at CQC.
Until Extended comes through, I can't really pass judgement on whether or not there's a replacement for what greased did.
BlackenedPies:
I use Greased exclusively in Hades and Lumber. The only times I bring those guns are with greased because they're so freaking good. Buff engi with spanner mallet buff greased. I'm still as overpowered as ever
Why not set a minimum jitter value for greased: loading greased makes its value at least 3 for example (guns with higher jitter wouldn't be affected and they don't matter anyways). All guns are now jitter limited at further ranges and Gat has 30% increased jitter - a value that was originally generally agreed upon
Naoura:
Here's the issue with that; Controlled fire. An LJ wouldn't really feel the jitter addition, because it's such a slow weapon and you can so easily adjust.
Hades would feel it for those rapid shots, and would be a balancing factor, I concur. But 30% was said to be 'unnoticable', hence the absurdly high amount.
If you're going to give it a base jitter, I'd go more for 5, honestly. That'd be felt very hard on Gat and Banshee, and potentially on other weapons as well. However, I would balance that with a little more on both clip and rate of fire to compensate. At CQC, greased would still be king. At mid range, Greased could be used, but would be difficult to use effectively.
BlackenedPies:
Jitter can't be adjusted for because it's random and 5 deg jitter is equal to light carronade
Jitter radius = tan (jitter deg) * range
Lumber would be one of the most affected guns by base jitter due to its long effective range of around 500m against the ships its good against. At 500m with 3 deg the jitter radius is 26m, which means you can aim dead center on a Spire and might miss. At 5 deg it would be 44m - you could aim anywhere on a Galleon's broadside and miss
"Unnoticeable" is a terrible metric because it's difficult to estimate true accuracy. If you're aiming at the lower front of a Pyra at 300m with a Gat and compare 3 deg vs 2.25 deg jitter, you won't notice much difference but in reality the 29% higher jitter increases the jitter radius by 33%. Even a change of 1 in 10 shots that would've hit armor and now hitting components, balloon, or missing is critical. That's unnoticeable from your perspective but very significant
Maybe a base of 3 deg is too long-ranged for some tastes. At 4 deg you've increased the radius at 300m by 78%. At 5 deg it's +122%
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