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A few questions regarding the Player Counsel and community interaction

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BlackenedPies:

--- Quote from: Raging Geek on April 27, 2017, 12:14:16 am ---With creation of the player counsel the community has gotten a great opportunity to improve the game.
It is, however, pretty chaotic, disorganized and, most importantly, doesn't have a slightest clue of what they are trying to build.
This results in inefficient testing, hurt feelings (my latest attempt to organize an internal test was met with "nobody cares mate so im not wasting my time on this") and general disillusionment in the whole thing.

--- End quote ---

That was my impression and the reason I stopped being involved. Say what you want but with Atruejedi it was very organized and worked towards specific goals, and I'd even go as far to say that 90% of actual progress was because of Jedi. Now it's constantly off topic and the most vocal member / de facto leader stated he's not interested in balancing the game. Management is key

Kira Wa Nai:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on April 27, 2017, 09:46:43 am ---That was my impression and the reason I stopped being involved. Say what you want but with Atruejedi it was very organized and worked towards specific goals, and I'd even go as far to say that 90% of actual progress was because of Jedi. Now it's constantly off topic and the most vocal member / de facto leader stated he's not interested in balancing the game. Management is key

--- End quote ---

Jedi had a vision. We, apparently, don't.

The Mann:
See, I respect the whole testing community however, their methods of testing are somewhat limited.
For example, when I see the word testing; I expect to see someone testing anything and everything they see that could or should be tested. When the Cavitatiion and Grenade Launcher came out, everyone was testing them in their free time which was great to see, a load of practice lobbies filled with galleons firing mines at unsuspecting dummies.

See, in regards to the limitation I mentioned, first of all, not everyone is available at the specific time they test. Second of all, people have varied opinions, some may want to test this, some may test that but in the sessions they do; everyone has to test one thing. The gun testings for example, the harpoon - great fun, lots of people showed up for a good time but nothing happened from it. Some people felt it was a waste of testing, others say it will be considered in the long run but I'll leave that for the future to behold. Back to timing, the limited time means not all people can test together thus creating low populations. On Friday for example, I have no idea what happened on fridays but for some reason, my clan of drunks has been told we have to test fridays... that doesn't work and never will in my opinion... RIP my beautiful Iron Fork...


Overall, in my opinion, if one wants to effectively manage testing you need two things in my opinion, more timing - heck, I feel more and more people would test if anyone could test at any time - everything is available to you except for one thing - if theirs two of you, you cannot force start a game for a 1v1 - Stupid proposal but I feel they should give people a force start button if theirs only one populated ship either side. that'll solve any low audience issues for a little time before some discord spam brings in more players. That is another point. No one knows of the damn testing. They mention it all the time in the discord and in the dev streams but! no one actively expresses it enough in game, there's limited publicity and that's not effective in the grand scheme of getting as many people as possible to test.

Of course these are just opinions though. I barely ever test but I can clearly see with all the announcements in discord, the lack of publicity affects the testing massively...

now that I think about... I don't think this post was relevant to the thread...

Naoura:
No, I think it's entirely relevant, Mann. Community needs to be able to interact and weigh in on what is being done, and testing is thebest way to do it.

I know I've had times where I've wanted to test something, but couldn't because it was scheduled exactly when I had work or class. It got to the point that I could guess next weeks testing schedule by my work schedule.

Increasing the audience for it is definitely a necessity, and limiting the sessions does turn people off. However, it is difficult for such a small team to try and have more sessions than they do. They are small, and if they could ever make enough to bloody well grow larger, it would be fantastic and I'm certain we would see much more change and advancement. I know, rehashing an old argument, Muse is indie and small, blah blah blah, but... Partially I can see why they're so few.

The Testing community is, effectively, the PC and a dedicated branch of the community. They're as important if not more to address.

As for the argument with Jedi... begrudgingly, I will state he had some measure of vision, and was enough of an ass to force his vision down everyone's throat. Crude and blunt, but it did work. I hate to admit it, but he did make some progress with things.

Now... we just need to have an actual Council. An actual, solidified, honest to god Council that can agree on a path to take. Said De Facto leader not wanting to deal with balancing is the issue, but that's why you have multiple leaders, who can reach a consensus on a decision. Shouting each other down helps no one.

I'll admit, I left the Discord over a rather petty dispute with one of the members there, he gets absolutely infuriating at the best of times, but the discussion needs to be constructive towards the future of the game. How it is constructive is in question, but that comes with refinement.

Kira Wa Nai:

--- Quote from: The Mann on April 27, 2017, 02:23:23 pm ---now that I think about... I don't think this post was relevant to the thread...

--- End quote ---
Oh, trust me, it is more than relevant.

PC is in a bit of a crisis, so healthy discussion is very much needed. This thread is one of the ways to make it permanent and available to everyone.

The counsel, in its current state, has no vision of the game - neither their own or forced onto them by developers.
The feedback feels ignored. The Seraph was added into the game despite being able to disable galleon in three shots. It was told many times that it was overpowered, but it made it into the game.
The competitive community is mostly uninvolved in the testing. This might be mismanagement, this might be the comp guys slacking, whatever. I have yet to see a full crew from a competitive clan on the test.
Organization is a bit of an issue. Internal Polaris testing used 1v1 practice lobby, checklist of things to test, player signup form and a feedback form.
The counsel and the testing feature a very heterogeneous pool of players. This reduces our ability to properly separate feedback and balance concerns.

The testing we conduct is not nearly enough in quantity and lacking in quality due to the problems I listed. We test many things at the same time, do two hour-long testing sessions, where a third of the time is spend herding people to actually pick the right thing, then just stuff feedback into the game chat or discord. This can and has to be improved.

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