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Helios.:
I think the meta for VIP will calm down soon enough, and i think that vip hiding squids will fall out of favor as people realize that the run and hide strategy is horribly killed by a chasing squid or two. i think this might actually be cool to have the meta shift in the direction of fast and maneuverable rather than the static mobula game we have been seeing.

if you are worried about squids running away, bring an escort squid to hunt them down, its not rocket science

Richard LeMoon:
Exactly, Helios. Our community VIP matches (with people that knew the ropes) generally ended up with a nice spread of pursue and defend ships. Though, Squids were rarely used as rabbits. They were most often used as fast attack VIPs that would get right in the middle of combat to take key kills.

Really, how many matches are people going to play as a rabbit VIP before they realize how mind-dullingly boring it is? Same reason most vets hate Dunes and the camping game. 'Waiting to win' is just not fun.

Nietzsche's Mustache:
I agree with most if not all of the above, with regards to the VIP mode. The addition of the sweep rule from the community VIP games would be fun. The VIP killing each of the enemy ships once (including the VIP) once completed amounts to a point for each ship killed plus the extra point for the VIP-on-VIP kill. So, a 2v2 sweep is worth three points, a 3v3 sweep is worth 4 points, and a 4v4 sweep is worth 5 points. This should give the VIP plenty of reason to actually stay in the fight instead of simply avoiding it.

Though I should note that a 3v3 VIP match I ran earlier was mostly dragging out because the team didn't really realize that brawling with the escorts didn't really amount for anything. They were convinced that SHIT WAS GOING DOWN when the only thing that mattered (score wise) was slipping in and out of the game with little consequence. It could yet be that we simply need to establish better metas. I remember when people hated KoTH until we all realized that mines were effective as all get-out. Now most of clan clan will jump at any vote for labby JUST BECAUSE MINES. :P More to the point though, I can see the possibility of VIP being the one game mode where current counterplay is thrown out the window. Reactive builds might counter control in this game mode rather than the other way around. We'll see.

I also wanted to touch on the issue of the removal of the team swapping by way of spectator. I've always been fond of the ability of the community to balance lobbies more effectively than the matchmaker as well as the fact that when the lobby clears out, people will condense down to play with their new friends and make way for the new ships being queued in. This is a pretty clear slight to all of that, so I emailed Muse on the subject and this is what I got back.


--- Quote ---Friend joining will still put you with your friends. We most often saw slot swap abused for people to unbalance games. One new idea we're looking at is allowing slot swaps when the teams are unbalanced. We definitely want to give freedom and control by players, but complete control gives rise to worse balanced lobbies.
--- End quote ---

Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby that somehow the matchmaker may have miracled into existence in the first place, is anyone else insulted by the notion that the GoIO community is some herd of base-instinct heathens that has to be controlled and manipulated for it's own good? C'mon, we're all just people that want to play a game and team up with whomever we want, whenever we want. The fact that people already are working around this by leaving lobbies and rejoining through the friends list is an indicator of the fact that we're just going to do whatever we want and Muse's efforts to control that is simultaneously agitating and futile.

Atruejedi:

--- Quote from: Nietzsche's Mustache on May 27, 2016, 12:49:30 am ---Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby...
--- End quote ---

I've said it many times, including to Muse, and I'll say it here again: it isn't the case. I've never seen people unbalance lobbies in that way. Like, ever. Lobbies get unbalanced because lobbies die (because of awful rematching standards/practices) and reforms restack the teams. I would love to know what evidence Muse has of this alleged spectate-swap "abuse," because I've played my fair share of matches, and this is news to me.

ZnC:

--- Quote from: Atruejedi on May 27, 2016, 03:54:11 am ---
--- Quote from: Nietzsche's Mustache on May 27, 2016, 12:49:30 am ---Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby...
--- End quote ---

I've said it many times, including to Muse, and I'll say it here again: it isn't the case. I've never seen people unbalance lobbies in that way. Like, ever. Lobbies get unbalanced because lobbies die (because of awful rematching standards/practices) and reforms restack the teams. I would love to know what evidence Muse has of this alleged spectate-swap "abuse," because I've played my fair share of matches, and this is news to me.

--- End quote ---

I agree with jedi here. It is blatantly obvious to the entire lobby when anyone, especially a high level, tries to stack the lobby like that. The real problem is when clanmates/friends want to play together and 'stack' the lobby with no team scrambles.

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