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Where in the World does this Game Happen?

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Lady Veronica:

--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on March 30, 2016, 11:28:29 am ---I think it would be a good thing to assume that this is an 'Alternate Earth' that followed an almost identical history up to the point of the World Wars, but with completely different landmasses. So, this takes place in Alt-Europe and Alt-East Asia.

Otherwise, you have to figure out what would cause a landmass changing event that would leave some cities mostly intact. I am not sure of a Crustal Displacement event (can't really happen) would fit the bill.

--- End quote ---

Yes, from what I have already gathered from the trailer for co-op 2014 especially, is that this is indeed a world that is a carbon copy of our own(up to about 1914), and it doesn't have to have an alternate landmass. See, there has never been a war that lasted 100 years with the kind of power from WW1 and beyond. From the strange planes also seen in that trailer, you can deduce that the years of war had a huge impact on technological development, setting the world decades ahead of where it would have been in our timeline. Even the basic technological achievements we had back in 1914 was enough to cause massive damage to the environment, some of which is still visible today. Also, keep in mind that massive gun in Anglean raiders (I think its that one anyways, either that or Firnfeld). They obviously went above and beyond weapon-wise. Perhaps there is some super-weapon, or maybe bomb development well surpassed our own technology without going nuclear. Such a mega-bomb, if deployed continuously could quite possibly sink an entire landmass. Such as Poland, seeing how that is the western front, a total destruction doesn't seem so strange. If such a large piece of land were sunk  the waters of both the Baltic and North seas would fill it, and would in turn lower the water levels in other parts, such as the Firnfeld. In the pictures below, there are four maps, one of the Alliance DLC and the other of northern Europe, a water depth map including the area in question, and the last one a very rough and not to scale sketch of what I am proposing. As you can see, the Angleans have a very similar land mass to a slightly less watered and totally glacier covered version of southern Denmark, the one island owned by Germany can clearly be seen in the top left corner of the Alliance map. The Firnfeld lies in the shallower area above Germany close to the one island they have on the top right of the European map. As it just so happens, there is a mountainous area known as the Fjord baronies roughly in the exact same place with a similar coastline to that island in our world. If you look at the depth map you can see that the water there isn't deep at all. If anything happened to lower the landmass of Europe, it would likely dry up while filling the void, but not before the water left in the North Sea (Glaciars do take a lot of water) rushed in. On a final note, looking at this map closer, Berlin was probably bombed and turned into the abyssal gulf. Makes more sense, considering it is a major city. Though seeing Poland with so much of it gone, this was probably a case of mutual assured destruction, without the agreement between nations.

Basically, we have no idea the kind of firepower and technology this alternate world achieved, and with such similarities as seen below its entirely possible for our world to look like this given the right, and utterly horrible circumstances. 50 years of straight bombing will have an effect on the world. Funny thing though, if this 100 year war started in the same or a similar way to our WW1, then it would mostly be due to spoiled, proud tyrants on pretty much every side. Sad, but funny. Crust Displacement doesn't work for a number a reasons and one of them would be this is just such a precise change that something so macro like that would probably not make this happen. Also, what if America is completely fine, and is just a little frozen over due to the partial ice-age? Anyways, I hope that covers this.


--- Quote from: Solidusbucket on March 30, 2016, 07:36:45 am ---
I read your wall of text. I enjoyed it. I would be interested if you somehow linked these two games.


--- End quote ---

I don't know what you mean by two games, but if I get some more info from Muse about the world, I'll make a video series to assemble all this lore together.


Maps:

Alliance DLC Map


Central Europe


Water Depth of North European Waters


My Great Representation of What I am Suggesting

Richard LeMoon:
The scale on the map does not allow that. The entire map would fit between Hamburg and Berlin so would be about half that size. That actually gives it a lot more options as to where it would 'fit'.

I think you are looking at it backwards as well. With an increase in ice, sea levels would fall instead of rise. Not sure what Muse has put in the lore about that. Also, the map could be upside down if the poles have shifted, which has happened before. Compasses would all point the wrong direction, making South the new North. Or, if the norther hemisphere was completely devastated by war, and people just made the choice to make the south the 'top' of the map and change N and S. This could put the GOI map in Australia or Tasmania, both very English oriented countries.

So, let's make the case for Australia.

Deserts. Europe has no 'Dunes' type of desert, and likely could not have one due to it's waterlocked location. Australia does, though conceding a bit far from where they would have to be. Climate change could cause desert creep, though.

Ice. If the war did, in fact, bring on an ice age, it would effect just the southern tip of Australia and Tasmania, as well as changing the coastline.



Architecture. Obviously, Europe had what it takes. So does Australia and Tasmania. Would they still? Given that Europe would be ground zero for a massive war, there might not be much left at all. In fact, it could be completely unlivable and toxic. Southern Australia is pretty out of the way as far as strategic targets, so there is a good chance of having many abandoned cities. The damage we see could be modern damage after the war, especially given the flat arc of some of the holes going through the buildings. The lack of bomb craters shows that they were never subject to air bombing raids, which is quite unlikely for a wartime major European city. Contrary, it is quite likely for a southern Australian wartime city to suffer no bombings.

Tasmania:



Culture. We already covered the English speaking aspect. Now how about the Asian aspect? Europe is a ponderous landmass away from your typical 'Asian' cultures. They would have had to have conquered a chunk of Spain or Germany after crossing Russia and build a small empire. Not likely. A more likely scenario would be a war devastated Asian culture retreating south to Australia (which becomes the new North).

Finally, here is Southern Australia and Tasmania with the GOIO map inserted to scale-ish.

Lady Veronica:
That case for Australia is really cool, but I am going to have to disagree with it  for a number of reasons. One of the things that worked out really well with my model (and yes, that scale was way off, I didn't know it was only 200 km across. Still, I hold that it is something similar to that, but smaller .) was that the Anglean Republic is based off of a Viking-esque culture, you can see it in the clothing. In the case for Germany the Angleans are decendants of Denmark, the original Vikings.

I do really agree that it is more likely for Asia to pull down into Australia rather than run right around to France/Germany, but let's consider the Leviathans (place holder name). They are the giant machines that dwarfed everything, their engines and control rooms are still in Battle of the Dunes and Duel at Dawn. A representation of their size was made somewhere on this part of the forum, I recommend checking it out if you haven't already. If one existed, it would be the size of a small town, potentially carrying a huge number of people from place to place. I propose that in some form of alliance or pursuit of self-interest, some Asian superpower (like China or Japan) took a few of these and landed a flank on France while they were fighting on the western front. If done at the right point in the war, it would cripple the already weakened France (over-exertion of resources) but may leave the army isolated from their homeland, and after all the fighting is over, they would have to create their own society in their conquered land. We have only ever seen what nations can do in a period of roughly ten years or so of hard war like this, and out of them we got nuclear energy, tanks, advanced air fighting machines, chemical warfare and much more. Imagine what a power mad alliance of tyrants could do in fifty, especially without the restrictions set in by the Geneva convention of 1925 preventing the usage and production of chemical and biological weapons. The effects are unimaginable, and potentially worse than even nuclear bombs themselves.

I'd also like to make the point that the Mercantile Guild is of Venician origin, a city directly south of this part of Germany. Because people didn't really interact with each other before the age of air, I don't think they had naval technology to even cross the Abyssal Gulf. Even if they did, would they really be able to navigate from the Mediterranean all the way to Australia? They would have to be extremely talented navigators and have tons of supplies, and besides, once they found this place, why would they stay? If they traveled that far, they likely are just traveling traders and while they might stop there a lot, there's no real reason to set up a country.

As for water levels, I wasn't saying they would raise up, the Firnfeld is proof they fell. Though I think the maps you are looking at are in the event of a maximum ice age, in which all of northern Europe is covered. In the game, and in my theorized location, the Ice only goes to the south of Denmark, leaving the north of Germany mostly ice-free. While the amount of water saved from that ice may not be much, it would be enough to flood a plane such as the Abyssal Gulf and the Sea of Devils should they have been bombed to a lower altitude. If there were some sort of mega-bomb deployed in carpet bombing runs enough times over generations, the result should affect the altitude significantly, seeing how low most of this piece of Europe sits. Again, the technology created is of unknown magnitude, but if human nature has anything to say about it, we should assume the extreme.

While Labyrinth shows no significant signs of bombing, that may just be a result of speedy construction. You can see the cranes everywhere, the place went up faster than they could manage, which would mean that this was definitely a time where the work was valued over the worker. Regardless of the cost of life, they would have to grow, and should they be bombed, they might have just picked up the rubble and continued building. That is a more fantastical idea, but a different slightly more practical explanation for Labyrinth is that is is not any major city at all. In fact, it may just have been a town that the people from the heavily bombed areas of Germany ran to, causing the massive need for shelter and jobs. If Germany was being forced into a corner on all sides, this may have been one of the last stands for the Germans. If so, all their military might would be on protecting this one city, which would probably allow for them to destroy any foreign bombing raids before they even come close. The tanks all over the streets of labyrinth could suggest extreme martial law, or the dying battle of Germany, the one that ended with everyone dead. From what I understand, Labyrinth is one of the few cities of it's kind, so having it as the final city for an entire country doesn't seem like such an unrealistic idea after all.

Cool stuff.

Kamoba:
*Reads in awe.*

Richard LeMoon:
The largest issue is still the deserts. People can move. Climates can not. At least not too far from their origin.


--- Quote ---They would have to be extremely talented navigators and have tons of supplies
--- End quote ---

Perhaps you are right, and the Leviathans were used for mass migration during/after the war. It would still make more sense to get as far from the devastation as possible. That goes for all people. You proposed that Leviathans existed during the war and were used to transport entire armies large enough to conquer a country and set up their own. This in itself provides the means to move massive amounts of people to new lands.

Using Vikings as reason for design after the wars makes little sense as well, since no culture had Viking design at that time. It would have all had to be recreated. However, if you wanted to go that route, a Leviathan could have arrived full of 'Viking' minded people that could have picked up where their ancestors left off.

Now what I propose is this. The war had started and was raging for some time. The Leviathans were being crafted as a war weapon to move armies. By whom? I would say the Fjord Baronies. Why? They are the only ones described as being descended from an army. They are also described as having a "forgotten ability".

Let's say they had at least six Leviathans being built at a secret location. As with a lot of secret military projects, those doing the piloting are kept in the dark about the actual design and building of the machines. The first one is taken out for a test run manned by an entire army. It is flown far from any enemy while the others are operational, but not yet furnished. Nearing completion, the Red Death strikes, infecting their homeland, including everyone at the secret hangers. The Leviathan returns, but is commanded not to land or rescue survivors in case they are infected as well. They will literally become the last of their people. They know the Red Death will soon spread to all corners of the Earth. Making a decision, they decide to change their mission from war and country to the protection of the dwindling peoples of all countries. They order the other Leviathans to be cast adrift without crew. Once aloft, a detachment is sent to crew each ship with the orders to disperse to other countries that have not yet been infected and save as many people as they can, and rejoin the fleet at a set location.

The Leviathans land away from each other to try to prevent the refuges from kindling bad blood and continuing the war in their new homes.  The people come from a disparate set of rescued people, each eventually setting up a faction and small state of their own rather than integrating. Not long after the mission is over, the Leviathans stop functioning due to no one knowing how to maintain the secret components. They are abandoned in the desert, only to become the source of scavenging and technology much later.

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