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Level requirement to create clans

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Hoja Lateralus:
To rephrase the basics:
Problem: Large amount of small clans which are often abandoned and take-up the names and clantags.
Proposed solutions:
  a) change the required members for clan (from original 5)
  b) introduce lvl requirement for creating clans
  c) propose some way to regain names and clantags from inactive clans

I think we may need 2 or even 3 of those, actually. Firstly:
  a) 5 members is awkward as hell, but then again I think 8 is too many. Either back it down to 4 and embrace the clan swarm (about that in a moment) or I say raise it up to 6 because it's less awkward than 5, it's two ships with almost-full crew or one full ship and captain+one crewmember. Both of those options are equally valid for me.
  b) Level requirement is scary as hell for some people, but it can be as low as, I dunno, 5. I think some symbolic compromise would be that non-novice players can join clans, but they can't create them. For novice time (like, what, 10 hours of gameplay?) they'd have to manage with friendlist and party capabilities.
Edit: What if we did a cruel joke and only let people make clans after they have finished tutorial? Mwahahaha
// Personal note - I think there is something in keeping the clanlist clean, because I know I joined a mostly inactive clan once and felt weird. Literally for a week I was the only guy online.
  c) As someone suggested, just [If clan has less than {minimum required} members for 3 (or 6 perhaps?) months - disband that clan] thing. But what if clan has members but all of them are inactive? Huh, I guess some percentage of activity requirement? Like if for X amount of time less than Y% of people logged in then disband clan? More humane would be to just put a warning first. Throw in your ideas, but I think this is the best thing we can do.

Also, clan has some capabilities that have effect on gameplay. This is like friendlist-PRO, becuase you can set some kind of rules and restrictions for joining your clan and form for instance a band of 1000+ matches vets who crewform together, which is op in pubs. But unlike friendlist you don't have to know all those people, every clan member once in a while adds someone and that person serves as a friend-PRO for all the clan.

Arturo Sanchez:

--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on March 26, 2016, 11:21:48 pm ---You are wrong about the pros.

Point one: Frees up clan tags for what? The clans no one is making because they are only joining the very few established clans? The clutter of the clan registry is the fault of the devs, not people making clans. Add in some basic 'sort by' boxes to fix it.

Point two: No. This is the opposite of what you want to do when introducing a group of friends to the game. This game has a high social curve to start. Making it higher will do nothing for player retention.

Point three: For the players that stay, sure. For the ones you already chased off with seemingly clan elitism, no.

Point four: This is even more the case when an 'established' clan quits, so is not a valid argument. More people have quit this game because a large clan dissolved than because small clans dissolved. Most new people quit for other reasons.

--- End quote ---

Time to play devil's advocate here.

Point 1 is implying the extreme opposite. So... if people join a big clan like say that angry joe army one or grox. What's the issue here? What is the issue of a big clan? Plus should people feel like a clan is too big. Often times senior members of said clan leave and reform their own, many vets who have their current clans are usually branches of the 5 major old guard clans. So what is the issue here? Plus its blatantly ignoring the inherent problem of dead clans filling up the registry. And the big problem is the sheer size of these compared to ACTIVE CLANS. If active clans out number the dead ones. Its kind of a step forward you genius.

Point 2. Going by your friend introduction thing. Wouldn't that friend be invited into the clan or join crew forms (to then eventually join) in the first place? What scenario are you playing in your head where a friend that's introduced isn't introduced to the regulars the inviter flies with?

But let's look at a different scenario. New player joins. Plays the game and finds people they like and friends them, after playing awhile they level up and form a clan. But before that they organise via the friendlist and use the party system. Or starts playing with x clan and gets a good thing going with the members, guy joins the clan.

Point 3. People that leave were always going to leave. They saw a game on steam costing them pennies, logged in and played for a bit but didn't like it. It happens. Because teamwork is hard. The game is very niche in a medium thats mostly fascinated with the solo hero power fantasy since 1985. Welcome to reality. COOP isn't for everyone.

Richard LeMoon:
There are not enough facepalms. My suggestion was to automatically release dead clan names after a certain time. That solves all problems of 'clan clutter'.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. I wrote 'introduced', not 'invited'. When you and friends join a game for the first time, you are being introduced to the game BY the game, not by some in-crowd. That is one of the reasons GOIO bleeds new players. It is bad at introducing. Getting all elite-y about clans would only make that worse.

Your counter to point three is pure BS. Everything influences whether a person leaves or stays in a place or community. A single interaction can make a difference. You have a very simple-minded and shallow caricature of the reasons people do what they do. For example, if I had met you on the first day, my chances of hanging around would have been severely diminished. I would have thought, "Great, another community full of morons."

Arturo Sanchez:
facepalm a little harder, and several times.

You need a few slaps.

Your suggestion does solve it from a systematic point but from a community point, it still doesn't create that bridge between vets and noobs. Noobs clans will be born and noob clans will die like third world child mortality rates.

And introduced or invited... splitting hairs much? Same goddamn thing, you tell someone to try something, both can be said to be introduced and invited. And don't even put all the blame on vets by your wording. I personally hate interacting with noobs simply because of a large number of them simply being unresponsive.

Just the other day I was explaining in huge detail why a person's galleon has no killing power. I challenged the logic in the build and I explained the flaws in that logic. And when the "I'm just having fun" card came up as it all too often does. I simply stated that its not fun to crush someone with little to no effort. Because when the match started my ship didn't even get a single hull break on it as I hovered in place and ripped each ship a new one. And I was using the barebones metamidion that has been heavily nerfed. Where a much better built galleon could crush the piece of crap I flew.

Madzela was around to vouch this. Despite a vet's best efforts to BE inviting some people just reject it.


--- Quote ---Everything influences whether a person leaves or stays in a place or community. A single interaction can make a difference.
--- End quote ---

Which is it? the former or the latter. Calling my point BS. And then immediately coming up with this golden nugget.

Richard LeMoon:
People rarely agree with you. People have left the game because of you and the hostile atmosphere you create. Almost every player I know has you on their block list. Your clan is never around that I can see. You hate playing with new people, insisting that they are somehow less than you. You may hate playing with 'noobs', but most of the people I know hate playing with you, and would rather have the noobs. I really don't understand where you think you are in a position to judge why anybody does anything, or how they should be managed.

You have severe reading comprehension problems if you think the line you quoted contradicts itself. You also have severe context issues with definitions since you are still not able to understand the differences in the usage of 'introduce' and 'invite'.


--- Quote ---1. bring (something, especially a product, measure, or concept) into use or operation for the first time.
--- End quote ---

This is the definition for 'introduce' that you can't seem to grasp. Let me give you two sentences that may help you figure it out.

"I was first introduced to the ships of GOIO when I downloaded it and played a match. I then invited three of my friends to play."

"I was first invited to the ships of GOIO when I downloaded it and played a match. I then introduced three of my friends to play."

Same thing, right?

How about another one, since you are hung up on the definition of a human 'introducer'.

"I would like to introduce you to my clan."

'I would like to invite you to my clan."

Still the same thing, am I right?

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