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The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread

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Richard LeMoon:
That would be interesting.

OverlordEgg:
The rangefinder as advertised in the tooltip seems like it was meant to help inexperienced gunners land longer range shots on the more difficult guns.

In that regard, I think using the rangefinder should work the way it does currently but instead of the stupid circle thing, add the shot-path indicators for people on the guns like we have in practice mode. Doing this, players experienced with the difficult guns probably won't need it, however it would make longer-range guns like the hades and lumberjack more consistent for the layman. This would allow pilots to take things like hades or heavy flak more often without feeling like they're screwed out of those choices because their crews aren't lvl 45 dedicated gunners, as well as giving would-be gunners and engineers who never get to practice those guns more opportunities to get used to how they work.

It would also add an interesting dynamic to loadout choices. Pilots may ask themselves "can I sacrifice a tool here to help at longer range." or "can one engineer use range-finder while the rest snipe" and so on.

In the end, the really dedicated players won't need it, and in competitive play having that extra tool will be a bonus the vets won't want to sacrifice, but normal matches, the range-finder would allow pilots to practice builds they normally wouldn't attempt due to their fear of everyone missing everything, as well as giving gunners a chance to practice guns they normally never get to fire.

Arturo Sanchez:
1. too easy
2. it will cause lag.
3. difficulty to shoot is what balances the guns. An obvious as hell aiming arc silhouette is just insulting.
4. a simple fix on the aiming notches to make it clearer wtf the notches mean will serve as a far better way to help (without breaking the game).

range finder tells the range in numbers. then you look for that number on the aiming notch on the gun. voila same solution. less obnoxious and far more simple to implement.

OverlordEgg:

--- Quote from: Maximillian Jazzhand on March 01, 2016, 08:04:35 pm ---1. too easy
2. it will cause lag.
3. difficulty to shoot is what balances the guns. An obvious as hell aiming arc silhouette is just insulting.
4. a simple fix on the aiming notches to make it clearer wtf the notches mean will serve as a far better way to help (without breaking the game).

range finder tells the range in numbers. then you look for that number on the aiming notch on the gun. voila same solution. less obnoxious and far more simple to implement.

--- End quote ---

Of course it would be easy. Making shooting easier is the whole point of the rangefinder. Assuming the thing could function properly that's effectively what it's already supposed to do. All I'm suggesting is one method of making the information it's trying to provide easier to read.

As far as "it will cause lag" I highly doubt you know that for sure, but that's not a concern in my mind, as I'm trying to think of functions that would make the rangefinder useful assuming they function. I don't know if you think a shooting line would appear for everyone on the ship, but in my mind it would appear only for the person on the gun. Like the circles currently do, and the shot path currently implemented in practice mode does.

"difficulty to shoot is what balances the guns" is simply not true. When planning a strategy of attack on an enemy ship it's always safer to assume they can hit every shot, and when thinking tactically "oh their gun is difficult so I'm fine" is a mistake likely to end in death against experienced crews or even talented low levels. Plus saying "oh no don't use that gun your crew's not good enough" is a great way to make people not want to play the game, and corrals people that already play the game away from those guns. Not only that, but dedicating a pilot slot and taking time to watch people with the binoculars would create it's own balance dynamic. For instance pilots may ask themselves "if I stay back and the ally protects me can I sacrifice the slot to help accuracy?"

And for clarification on what the notches mean, I'm assuming you mean the notches on the lumberjack and hades? Assuming I'm understanding what you're suggesting here, that solution would make the rangefinder pointless for any gun that isn't modeled with notches. It's not like the Lumberjack and Hades are the only guns that are used at long range. For instance, the heavy flak. Not only that, but just telling the range is pretty much useless since one could just open the map and estimate distance from there. Range-finder would still be obsolete since people would say "No need to waste the spyglass or pilot tool slot, just look at the map."

Basically I think a tool intended to help gunners figure out their shots is an interesting idea, it was just implemented insanely poorly. People that don't know any better yet try to take it thinking they can help their gunners aim. That in itself isn't a bad thing in the right hands, but due to a confusing and distracting indicator that doesn't even properly calculate lead half the time it became counter-intuitive and harmful as it wasn't able to pull off what it was supposed to do. What I'm suggesting is a way to make the range-finder clearer so it properly pulls off that function of helping a gunner aim. Adding a simple shot-indicator graphic is intended to replace the vague circle things and portray information in a way that helps the gunner more accurately predict where their shot is going to go, as well as remove the need for the system to make the lead and drop calculations that it currently screws up.

GeoRmr:

--- Quote ---"difficulty to shoot is what balances the guns" is simply not true. When planning a strategy of attack on an enemy ship it's always safer to assume they can hit every shot, and when thinking tactically "oh their gun is difficult so I'm fine" is a mistake likely to end in death against experienced crews or even talented low levels. Plus saying "oh no don't use that gun your crew's not good enough" is a great way to make people not want to play the game, and corrals people that already play the game away from those guns. Not only that, but dedicating a pilot slot and taking time to watch people with the binoculars would create it's own balance dynamic. For instance pilots may ask themselves "if I stay back and the ally protects me can I sacrifice the slot to help accuracy?"
--- End quote ---

This is a straw-man argument. Talking about balance from a design perspective is not the same discussion about how to strategize most effectively as a player. And yes, difficulty to shoot is a major factor in dame design and balance, for example the hwacha can be considered a 'foo strategy', large effect for little effort, but is surpassed by more difficult guns like the lumberjack. Video related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

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