Author Topic: SCS Timer  (Read 25983 times)

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2016, 10:23:50 am »
The main goal behind overtime is to give the team that wants to fight a chance to win the match. It's really not that hard to add a few minutes after the 20 minute timer is finished.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2016, 03:08:10 pm »
I've been in and seen plenty of matches that were seconds from a kill. My original suggestion was 30 seconds because that would've been enough to change the outcome. An extra minute or two with the same rules as a ref calling a pause would be a good overtime

Offline Lueosi

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2016, 05:25:18 pm »
Ok, let's try it next week: 3min overtime in case of running engagement when the timer runs out.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2016, 05:30:58 pm »
Ok, let's try it next week: 3min overtime in case of running engagement when the timer runs out.

Including when the game isn't tied?

Offline Lueosi

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2016, 05:32:48 pm »
Yes.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2016, 08:24:23 am »
I'm excited to see how this works. I'm optimistic that this could be a good change

Offline Kamoba

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2016, 08:54:18 am »
I'm excited to see how this works. I'm optimistic that this could be a good change

Optimism is the doorway to disappointment, go in pessimistic and come out pleasantly surprised...
It was a guns player who taught me that.. XD

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2016, 12:58:28 pm »
I would personally go with a 10 second retroactive 'idle' countdown after time is up in the case of a tie or heavy combat where the tide could turn. If the battle looks close as the timer runs out, the fight continues until there is 10 seconds of idle time (no major damage being dealt to a ship that could possibly kill it in the next ten seconds).

This would basically be a 'players in motion' or 'ball in the air' type of rule set.
Rules would be:

1. In the case of a tie, combat will continue if both teams are active players in heavy combat and have an equal number of ships in the air. If either team breaks off and combat stops for 10 seconds, the match is decided by a random toss.

2. In the case of a tie while combat is idle and both team have an equal number of ships in the air, the match is decided by a random toss.

3. In the case of a tie while combat is idle as time runs out and one team has an more ships in the air, that team is declared the winner.

3. If teams are separated by 1 point, combat will continue ONLY if the team with fewer points has both ships in heavy combat (dealing large amounts of ship-killing damage) and is in a position to score two points. If they only score one point and tie before idle combat, the other team wins without a random toss.

Subset rules.

Heavy combat shall be defined as something that could kill a ship in its current state in 10 seconds or less. Otherwise, it is strategic combat.
Disabling guns or engines does not count as heavy combat.
Popping balloons does not count as heavy combat unless the target ship is on the ground with armor down.
Random toss could be flipping a coin or sending the official a 'rock-paper-scissors' call in a PM.
The time extension ONLY APPLIES to ships currently engaged in heavy combat when the 20 minute timer runs out.
Ships that respawn after 20 minutes is up may NOT rejoin combat.
If a ship is in respawn countdown when the 20 minute timer run out, it may NOT rejoin combat.
If is ship is not in active combat when the 20 minute timer runs out (even if it's ally is), it may NOT engage in combat.
If a ship leaves combat (takes or deals no damage for 10 seconds) it must leave the combat area and may not engage in combat.
Breaking these rules decides the tie and forfeits the match.



That would feel more fair to me, though I generally only sub for these matches.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 01:00:49 pm by Richard LeMoon »

Offline sparklerfish

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2016, 01:53:52 pm »
I understand the need for a timer to keep the SCS from lasting all day, but I HATE that "running the timer" has become a strategy.  It's not just boring for the viewers, it's boring for the participants.  Flying around the map looking for the other team is so mindless and stupid.  It feels like a waste of my time.  I sign up because I want to play Guns of Icarus and I want to shoot airships, not play a game of hide-and-seek.  It actually makes the matches take LONGER because teams WANT it to go to the end of the time rather than actually fighting and letting someone take a kill.

I've also been in plenty of matches that were clearly about to end during an engagement but the timer ran out before it could come to its natural end, which felt sort of antithetical to the point of having the timer.  I definitely like the idea of treating it the way pauses are — not ending when you are in the middle of an engagement.

As for things being "subjective" — is that not WHY we have a referee?  If things were completely cut and dry all the time and exactly obvious we could just govern ourselves in matches.  We have referees to make those calls because they are theoretically objective and impartial and able to make decisions for us.  "People might get mad at refs" is a terrible reason to not implement a rule.  People get mad at refs in sports all the time.  Sometimes a call is in your favor, sometimes it is not, and people are always going to get mad if it's not in their favor.  That doesn't mean that the rule is bad or the ref is wrong.

Anyhow, I look forward to seeing how overtime will work in future SCSs and I'm glad people are willing to give it a shot!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 01:56:06 pm by sparklerfish »

Offline Lueosi

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2016, 02:54:23 pm »
New extended ruleset for overtime:
  • if there is a running engagement (same definition as for pause calling) when the normal game time runs out, the game will continue in overtime
  • overtime lasts at maximum 3min
  • overtime ends when the engagement ends

Offline Hunter.

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2016, 04:10:19 pm »
New extended ruleset for overtime:
  • if there is a running engagement (same definition as for pause calling) when the normal game time runs out, the game will continue in overtime
  • overtime lasts at maximum 3min
  • overtime ends when the engagement ends

Huzzah!

We did it, viva la revolution

Offline Areus

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2016, 09:44:38 am »
I'd say yes on both counts, especially from a spectator's perspective.

The patience contest that so many vet lobbies end up in, especially on less... carefully thought out maps like Canyon Ambush, is enough that if it became the norm I'd probably drop out of competitive play. I do find it dubious that games can be won with 1 kill and a lot of running away, but since people are (oddly) less prone to exploiting that than they are camping all the live long day, it hasn't become a significant issue to date.

This is doubly true as a spectator where low-action games don't even have the tension they would as a player simply because (A) the spectator has nothing to do while they wait and (B) the stakes and tension are, for them, far lower. Even some of the 20-minute bouts on maps like Dunes can grow tiresome from a spectator's perspective.

Offline -SkBo- Skylord Bobo

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2016, 03:26:15 am »
Another possible solution looking into the future is changing the tournament format.


One of the maps in Cronus is Labyrinth, the king of the hill format solves many of the problems we are facing because it...

1. Effectively sets a time limit to the game (though a timer may still be useful, it would not be nearly as necessary)

2. it eliminates the massive disadvantage from loosing the first engagement, because there is no first kill advantage the second engagement is just as open as the first.

3. It stops the hide and seek strategy which is detracts from the action both in game and from a spectators point of view. The winning team cant hide in a corner because there is a specific point they have to keep under their control.

The competitive games I have played on Labyrinth have bean some of the best, mostly due to the decreased downtime and the reduced punishment from death (which leads to much larger game swings). Obviously the problem with this idea is the lack of maps to play on. Labyrinth is a good map, but i have doubts about Desert Scrap as a competitive map. In the future I would love to see king of the hill versions of other maps (such as Canyon, Fjords, etc.) so we could try a format like this

Offline Lueosi

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2016, 12:12:07 pm »
What are the opinions about the current overtime rules? Keep it? Change it? Drop it?

Offline Guagadu

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Re: SCS Timer
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2016, 12:47:33 pm »
What are the opinions about the current overtime rules? Keep it? Change it? Drop it?

I really like them, I find it makes the end of a game much more exciting, from both a player and spectator perspective.