Author Topic: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype  (Read 11084 times)

Offline Dawson the Wizard

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Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« on: January 21, 2016, 03:38:54 pm »
Hi Muse, et al,

Long-time player, first-time poster.  Don't want to waste anyone's time, so let's get right to the suggestion.

There is a problem with troublesome players―often new players―in general MMR matches, but I don't think it's rudeness, so often as ignorance.  Nobody wants to slog through Practice or Tutorials, because humans are lazy―so we jump into pub matches and try to be awesome.  Now, I understand and appreciate what you guys are trying to foster by disallowing votekick.  So let's presume that won't change:

Given this, and given that pub matches are not a good venue to "mess around", unless you have a particularly jolly crew or are high level and don't care; and given that you (Muse) must have already generated extensive scripting for AI-controlled airships, I believe a Last Stand gametype may be in good order.  In a Last Stand, "losing" is inevitable; so teammate failure is less consequential.  It would be a match that "matters" in public eye unlike Practice.  A gametype less stressful than Deathmatches or CP, where unsavvy pilots or stubborn gunners sometimes spoil the experience for others.

In premise, Last Stand is a firefight or survival scenario for players to prove their prowess―but in effect, it would be training grounds for new players, and a practice pit for older players who would like to experiment with nonstandard ship & crew loadouts.  Last Stand may foster competitiveness by displaying each player-controlled ship's kill count in the top infographic.  (That level 1 pilot who thinks his double flak Pyramidion is better than a Metamidion could be taught his lesson implicitly, with no yelling required.)  Last Stand would also allow for a new round of achievements for 45s who might like something new to achieve.

A Last Stand gametype/map is designed for 4 players, and generates as an option in standard 2v2 matches.  If chosen, all players are dumped into the same team.  (Alternatively, players on different teams are treated as friendly, but are competing for the most AI kills in a given timeframe.  This, however, might change the intention of this prospective gametype.)

Good map candidates for Last Stand may be Water Hazard or Dunes/Scrap, where players cannot easily hide or dive for cover.  Maps could be further rezoned so that AIs can spawn beyond the wind walls, disallowing players to corner up and repeatedly bait AIs to death.

Such a scenario might also include a CP that the AIs are going for which, if captured, also ends the game.  A timer may also be appropriate, to prevent matches from overstaying their welcome.  Where the score bar would be, a "Fleet" marker would appear, showing the current fleet number and silhouettes of the incoming ships:


Fleet 1:
Goldfishes, Pyramidions, Junkers
qty = # of players +1

Fleet 2:
Goldfishes, Pyramidions, Junkers, Squids, Galleons
qty = # of players +1

Fleet 3:
All
qty = # of players +2

Fleet 4:
all
qty = # of players +3

Fleet 5:
all
qty = # of players +4

Fleet 5 repeats until all players are dead (or some other terminal condition is met).  Fleet scripting should ensure that ARC roles are filled with the spawns, so that the AI fleets can threaten all ranges.



Hope to see the idea appear in some similar form, thanks for your time, and cheers

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 04:03:48 pm »
it already exists its called alliance mode. So this way every pleb that doesnt wanna actually play pvp goes away into the pve away from ppl that want to play the damn game.

Offline Dawson the Wizard

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 04:23:32 pm »
I guess the difference between me and a lot of older players is that I don't want plebs to go away.  I don't like trolls and whiners, but I don't also like salt on fresh blood.  It's a bummer that the playerbase falls to 50 people by midnight.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 07:35:58 pm »
Jazzhand is right that Muse is building a PVE version of the game called Alliance. Alliance covers some of what the OP is talking about. However the last beta I played of that version still needs two ships and therefor two captains to start a game instance. Also it has different ships and weapons to PvP. So experience gained from Alliance may not be applicable to PvP.

My opinion on the matter is Muse should add AI controlled regular ships to the blast yard for the purpose of experimenting with different builds and weapon combos. I suspect clans setup experimental skirmishes when new patches are released so that they can test and optimize their builds and strategies. Like against perfect engineering the gatteling gun will break hull armor on a junker in X secconds at Y range. It would be nice for solo players to have the same options.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 12:23:28 am »
experience gained from Alliance may not be applicable to PvP.

It shouldn't be the case and should never be the case.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 03:32:38 am »
If you want to contact Muse you should write an e-mail to feedback@musegames.com, they don't always read the forum.

Novice zone was made with goal of messing around, but devs decided that keeping players for too long there is bad. Also making such mode could take a lot of work and resources Muse doesn't have.

experience gained from Alliance may not be applicable to PvP.

It shouldn't be the case and should never be the case.

This is not Baden Baden, you don't have to repeat yourself :P

Offline Giersdorf

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 06:12:26 pm »
I'll more than likely keep playing the original version of the game and Alliance too...

Offline Dev Bubbles

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 06:29:57 pm »
@Dawson, this is a pretty awesome idea!  This does sound a bit like one of the new game modes we've started to prototype for Alliance.  Hopefully with the Alliance difficulty set right, people practice without the pressure of it being a DM.  But we can also look to integrate something like a Alliance match more tightly with practice or tutorial.  Right now, we're building a new set of tutorials as well, but the 2 things can be complementary I think. 

@Hamster, you can do 1 ship right now, and we've talked about having AI ships in practice.  That's definitely a possibility, especially for Alliance. 

@Jazzhand, the way we're designing is that, what people do in Skirmish can also have contribution towards faction progression.  This detail we're working out still. 

Thanks!  And great thread and discussion!  Great job everyone for being constructive, keep it up!

Offline Dawson the Wizard

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Re: Newbies & Experimenters Gametype
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 06:58:59 pm »
Well―thank you very kindly for taking the time to read, Dev Bubbles!  Having had more time to reconsider the OP, the other reason that struck me for a survival gametype in Skirmish, is to populate an option in stacked/unbalanced teams where everyone plays together, catching a break from another 0-5 stomp.  Anyway―it seemed like a comparatively easy concept to implement, given all the necessary work for your Alliance AIs.

Thanks for the great game in the meantime and good luck with the next stage of GoI