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I am begging, please add minimum level requirements to pilot...

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Atruejedi:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on January 14, 2016, 02:28:01 am ---I hope that more of the community will share your attitude Dilley'B and Luharis, so keep posting your opinions. What should be done?
--- End quote ---

We are indeed the community and we reap what we sow. And today I just watered three seeds and applied bags and bags of fertilizer.

I just got finished with a couple of matches that were a WONDERFUL experience with and for three new players. Two of them were completely (just installed the game) new and they were with their ever-so-slightly more experienced friend. They joined at a very off-peak time (about 45 players online) and we (the lobby) arranged to have them fly all together on my ship. Before they joined, the lobby was pretty barren but adequately balanced... all I wanted was an all AI Flak Spire, but then I got stuck with living humans :P. But boy am I glad I did!

All of them were in the same room having a LAN party. One microphone. All talking to each other. All listening to me. We had a tour/pow-wow of our junker at the beginning of the match in the depths of Paritan Rumble, hiding in the fog for a brief lesson on basic ship layout and mechanics. We flew a symmetrical trifecta junker with a good ally against a good team. Gunner in the pit on gatlings, front engy on the Artemis and hull, top engy on main repair and the side flak guns for kills. They learned how to repair, how to load ammunition and what ammunition to use (and when to use it), what to aim at, how to hit the hull from below, how to hit the balloon from below... when to use a mallet and when to use a spanner... that everybody can hit things when red, but only one person can hit it when it's NOT red... what cooldown time was...

It was glorious. We squeaked out a 5 to 4 victory and I could hear them all through their sole microphone congratulating themselves, laughing, and cheering. They had a BLAST! It was inspiring! They said they'd been getting their asses kicked in a couple previous matches and suddenly, by being taught (and realizing they didn't have a clue how to play successfully), they WON! They were ecstatic.

We rematched. Paritan again. Sigh. We switched to a metamidion and I broke down all the duties I wanted from them on this no-longer-a-junker ship. Triple engy. Buff the engines. Run the engy circuit around the main deck. Hit the main engine from below. Chem the balloon. Pre-buff the gatling with normal ammo, then switch to greased for close range. Only fire the mortar when red and always use greased ammo. Again, against a good team and with a good ally, we squeaked out a 5 to 4 victory. I think they were in disbelief! Unfortunately, I had to call it a night, but I told them at what times many more players were online and that they were more than welcome to hunt me down and fly with or near me again, anytime.

To relate this heart-warming tale to the original post and the later themes of this thread: I love teaching. I was given knowledge by a good teacher (who is long gone... :-\) when I began the game and it made the experience enjoyable, so I stuck with it. Enjoyment results in player retention. I've been playing for almost three years now. I was overwhelmed when I began the game and knew flying a ship with no experience would get my (and my teams) ass(es) kicked. Guns of Icarus Online has a learning curve, but that curve isn't sharp. You just need to know where that bend is so you don't smash into a building (figuratively and literally). You shouldn't fly blind (almost literally). As a considerate person, I learned to engineer first. However, not everybody is nice, and not everybody cares about the experiences others have... there's a certain level of hubris in grabbing the helm immediately after you've installed the game. You deserve the lose, but your crew mates and team do not. So I've taught and I will continue to teach, and while I personally think veterans have the duty to teach new players, I understand that it shouldn't be a full-time job when playing the game. It can get exhausting, and sometimes you want to kick ass, take names, and that's it. I do tire of the endless train of nubs following me into almost every lobby... but it's kind of cute, too :-*.

So how can we help new players have good experiences if there aren't always going to be people willing to teach hanging around? Everybody says expanded tutorials. I agree, that's a step in the right direction. But where are these fabled tutorials? Muse has been talking about improved tutorials for, what, almost a year? Or longer? Goodness. If you want to grow the player base, that should be the absolute top priority. And they should be mandatory.

But they're not. So as a stop-gap measure (at the very least), I thought minimum levels would be a good idea. As I said in the original post, I thought attaining both level 8 engineer and level 8 gunner would be adequate, but then I also realized the amount of achievement hunting that happens and how quickly these players are leveling out of novices lobbies (when they're even available) and getting thrown into the real fights. Before the level cap increase, I was a level 12 pilot. After the change I was immediately level 45. I didn't understand why, but whatever. Point is, the level system doesn't seem to represent player experience (and therefore skill) anymore. Others proposed a minimum amount of matches played. I think that's a good complement to a minimum of levels attained. I think most of us would agree on something like level 3 engineer, level 3 gunner, and 25 or so matches played (these numbers can obviously be tweaked). I see now that locking players out of piloting outside of novices matches without achieving minimum levels actually isn't draconian... it isn't enough. More needs to be done.

I hope Muse appreciates this post, as I composed and proofread it over the course of 40 minutes to be as eloquent as possible. It would be nice to hear from them. There's obviously a problem. We all don't agree on how to fix it. But we have to try something.

As for my experience tonight, it was rejuvenating. I think I earned the player base some keepers. I can already see them poking up through the topsoil.

It'll be nice to watch them grow and blossom.

Pwni:
Hmm. While what atruejedi has proposed makes sense, will muse rectify this situation? Will they lock pilot class for novices and have them earn it? So many possible solutions ;). I do think that new players should check out the tutorial and go through it. They should also learn to engineer then gunner to learn the ship mechanics. I don't mind novice pilots. It's tough learning how to pilot. It's tough without a teacher or guidance. We all have ideas for a solution about it. But I think at present, we just have to guide new pilots and give them a few handy pointers about ship flight mechanics. Sure there will be several losses. That'll bum everyone out. Don't like it? Pilot yourself and show em how it's done.

But having players to unlock the pilot class would be pretty sweet. Maybe start engineer/gunner unlock pilot through achieving a fair level and amount of matches as suggested before. Get a certain amount of commendation. Maybe earn an achievement specific to each ship (on all the ships). Womp womp.

Lu Lu:
You know, I think we are hearing just too much from people on opposite ends of the spectrum here, but not enough from people caught in the middle.  Some people do enjoy teaching and love this new addition to our player base.  Some abhor teaching and despise the sudden surge of novices.  There are valid points and arguments on both sides.  However, only people on this ends of the spectrum seem to be posting. 

We need more people who are more moderate on this issue if we are to forge a lasting solution.  In my opinion, one of the biggest flaws with this game is the ease of both the tutorial and leveling up system.  It's just too easy.  Maybe instead of locking novices out of piloting we just make sure they learn the basics before they even try.

I propose locking each class initially and only allowing the engineer tutorial.  After completion of that tutorial, they unlock the engineer class, and the gunner tutorial.  After completion of a gunner tutorial, they unlock the gunner class, and pilot tutorial.  Rather than complain about their lack of experience, lets understand why there is a lack of experience.   This of course is just my opinion, I'm not going to say this is the only way to solve the problem, but I'd like to see more constructive posts addressing the issue.

BlackenedPies:

--- Quote from: Luharis on January 14, 2016, 11:19:23 am ---I propose locking each class initially and only allowing the engineer tutorial.  After completion of that tutorial, they unlock the engineer class, and the gunner tutorial.  After completion of a gunner tutorial, they unlock the gunner class, and pilot tutorial.
--- End quote ---

This is a good idea. The issue from Muse's perspective is that there are groups of friends who want to get right into the game. Streamlined tutorials will help, but I'm not sure how effective they are. Personally I like video tutorials

I have "Teacher" status and can join novice matches. I occasionally join empty ships in ongoing matches and often turn them around. Novice matches can be slow and boring with players not sure what to do. The maps are big and long periods are spent looking for the enemies. Many matches don't finish and end simply by everyone leaving. The long range merc flak loadouts are completely ineffective and quad hwatchafish matches can end without a kill. Novice matches aren't the best place to learn

Lu Lu:
I absolutely agree, this game is focused on team play, and of course we want groups of friends to jump in and have fun, but in reality, are couple short tutorials so devasting to new players?  I mean, if they do want to have fun, wouldn't be worth a 15-20 minute time sacrifice to learn how to play the game.  I'm very sure if novices knew how to play, even with a feeble understanding of game mechanics, it would alleviate lots of tension in the player base at the moment.  Instead of having to tell novices that carronade is meant to be shot at balloons, or that components have repair cooldowns, we could instead teach them about more useful things in game.  After all, if no one in a group of friends know how to play, we anyone have any fun on that ship?

While writing this, I just had an awesome idea, what if there were multiplayer versions of tutorials.  This way, groups of friends can still learn how to play the game, but will be together while doing so.  I think this would address the issue of friends who want to get right in game, whilst educating them on how to play the game.

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