Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode

[Lueosi]

We tested it long enough now, any final feedback?

[nhbearit]

Just get rid of it. It didn't seem to have any positive impact on SCS.

[Fynx]

It seemed to solve every problem in the world. Current system seems fine.

[Byron Cavendish]

I need some clarification on the wording of blind picks. Do I need to do "the dance" with my opponents 5 times, in order to unlock blind picks, or can I request it right off the bat?

[MightyKeb]

Both sides need to dance atleast 5 times, and if youre still dancing blind picks happen. Used to be you could request it right off the bat but Lue made changes after we discussed it.

[GurasOguras]

So that means we rarely see them today. Basically I fell like they don't even exist. Maybe it's my countering experience but i never really felt too bad about opponents ships. Im glad it ended up like this. Current model is fine.

[nhbearit]

So that means we rarely see them today. Basically I fell like they don't even exist....

If you feel like they don't exist, then they don't do anything positive for SCS, correct? On the other hand, they do have a negative aspect of bloating the ruleset, as well as potentially turning teams away from SCS. If this rule is really used so rarely that you can feel like it doesn't exist, why should it stay as a part of SCS? The Blind Pick aspect of SCS is really rather unnecessary, just get rid of it; simplify the ruleset and avoid turning people away from SCS.

[Byron Cavendish]

I could see myself bringing a full Hydra team back to scs, but we hate the dance and we hate countering, so having blind picks off the bat would be a draw for me.

[DrTentacles]

Counterpicking is incredibly annoying. Any lobby that I've been a part of is worse for it. I'd prefer blind picks off the bat. Not sure how much my vote counts, as I've never SCSed, but I hate that aspect of the game.

[MightyKeb]

Counterpicking is incredibly annoying. Any lobby that I've been a part of is worse for it. I'd prefer blind picks off the bat. Not sure how much my vote counts, as I've never SCSed, but I hate that aspect of the game.

I also hate that aspect of the game where a significantly worse team outplays you in blindpicks  rather than the actual game. Blindpicks arent just a anti counterpick measure, it's also a "lets make this interesting by making it unfair for teams" card. And in my honest opinion, not related to my competitive presence- Teams come first. SCS was made to allow teams a reliable place to scrim in and to act as a filler between big tournaments, it wasnt meant to be a chicken fight for the community, and Id rather have the game ruined for watchers and players every once a while by counters than blindpick  every 2 rounds and ruin it for the teams.

[Dementio]

With the two stage blind pick thing it's not all that unfair for teams. You choose the first ship based on what you want to fly and then your ally can take a ship that works well with the first one while ablw to deal/counter the enemy's first ship.

Blind picks now are rare, but so are ties and there is still a rule for that too. But I haven't seen a blind pick since after it was changed from the teams requesting it. Are blind picks not necessary anymore, because people stopped trying to super counter each other every 10 seconds? If so, why did they stop now.

[Byron Cavendish]

So why not use a simple, straight up pre-game blind pick request, followed by one team blind picking both their ships, and then going into lobby first? Then the other team is told that whatever ships they enter lobby with is their picks. Basically, true blind picks, quick and simple.

[MightyKeb]

I can understand the fairness in two stage picks or the simplicity of one stage, but my point is that this is Guns Of Icarus, it's a game where you can pick different ships with different loadouts whenever you want and so can the opponent, and it is crucial that this is a feature because a majority of how a round can go is determined on the ships that participate in it.

So why even blindpick at all if the game can be played normally? The game doesn't need it, the single excuse is that it can provide an alternative to counterpicking in need, but that alone opens up more opportunities for it to be misused than it's worth. Most of the blindpick games weren't even meant to prevent counterpicking when teams requested it, and even if it did we have no way of knowing it.



It might be "fun" occassionally, but that has to be a gentleman agreement between two teams in order for them to feel like they're enjoying it as it's actually their responsibility when they lose, and in my opinion that is the closest we should ever get to the old blindpick system, even so you can have gentleman agreements on anything outside of the rules.

[Caprontos]

Personally .. I kinda liked the blind pick matches since they felt a little less serious. People tended to do weirder things then they do with out it, which lead to some interesting matches.. I'd like to see a muse made blind pick mode.. Optional of course..

I don't think its bad if it makes a "good" team lose to a "bad" team personally, but rather a good thing.

The only downside to blind picks from my point of view is it was more work to set up a lobby..

[Byron Cavendish]

Well I can also understand that, if you don't like it, it makes the SCS unenjoyable. If it's not enjoyable, than why participate?

However, that is one of the main reasons why I haven't participated any SCS lately.

I'll paraphrase what someone said earlier; back in the day teams didn't counterpick, because we stuck with a build and trained on it. Well I'm still of that old school mentality (if you guys think Mandarin and Mad Hatters is old school, I was competing back when Paddling and the Gents first team was around).

Every time I have tried to compete in an SCS, I have had very negative experiences with counter picking, that have made it completely unenjoyable to participate in.

If I could enter a SCS with a "gentlemen's agreement" not to counter, that would be fantastic. But that is easier said than done, and all blind picking does is ensure the agreement.

So both sides have a negative, or positive, outlook. How to fix that, I have no idea, but that is my two cents.