Community > Community Events
Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
Lueosi:
From the referees point of view the blind pick system worked exceptional well. There were no early joiners, teams picked in two stages, changed ships in time, informative pms about loadouts. And instead of repeating the selected loadout in chat, they were just picked in lobby so I didn't need to type out the loadouts and just could point to the pilot who equipped the picked loadout (with the rule set loadouts are not bound to any particular player/pilot you can change later in the class/equipment phase). One team missed to pick in one picking phase but the rules covered this issue.
To the teams who requested blind picks: Did you request it for tactical reasons or to test the system? If we want to keep the rule, do we want to make it mandatory and have both teams agree to have a normal lobby? Another idea in the SCS chat was to have a normal lobby and if teams keep switching until the end, we change to blind pick mode.
--- Quote from: Dementio on September 13, 2015, 10:23:18 pm ---Speaking of writing loadouts down in PMs, I wouldn't mind an external software to make sending the loadout a little bit easier. Or enable the option to send screens through steam/skype or even through the message system of this forum, athough it could end up getting harder to organize for the responsible ref, when said ref has to manage three different platforms just to get a loadout.
--- End quote ---
Sending screenshots why not, the "work" is still on player side to upload or send the screenshot (it should be up to the player to add the ref on skype or steam or use the forum and inform the ref about it). But even with unconventional builds, ships have at max 6 guns and typing it in chat is faster than sending a screenshot, at least for me.
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on September 13, 2015, 10:44:56 pm ---To streamline loadouts, lock in the first loadout that joins. Refs and players screenshot to make sure they don't change, penalty of death. Casters don't show picking. Remember to Save.
The PM step isn't necessary if captains are the only to join. First captains join and leave, then next two. Players joining before both captains voids blind picks for the opposing team. Control via password.
--- End quote ---
That's imho too much organizational work by all participants. Timed joining, a lot of screenshots etc. With the current implementation, if players complain they picked something different, the referee can just make a screenshot of the pm and prove he is right (so making screenshots is reduced to a minimum).
To sum my opinion up: The blind pick mode worked well in its execution, it was chosen more often than I expected. It led to one team having difficulties with tactical picks but I think that was caused by a lack of competitive experience. Overthinking the system and trying to solely counter the other team instead of going for team synergy and well practiced builds didn't pay out. In fact the whole point of the blind pick mode is to prevent the issue who picks the hardcounter last, instead both teams pick at the same time. I'd like to keep the rule.
MightyKeb:
--- Quote from: Lueosi on September 14, 2015, 07:36:42 am ---
Another idea in the SCS chat was to have a normal lobby and if teams keep switching until the end, we change to blind pick mode.
--- End quote ---
I actually really like this one. For a while I've been thinking about an incentive or a tie breaker for a lobby for when teams switch around for the entire 4 min timer, a feature that would give it a little more time would simply be like extending the timer and not doing much but this sounds perfect. But I think to balance it out both teams would have to agree on the current method for blindpicks.
Dementio:
--- Quote from: MightyKeb on September 14, 2015, 06:38:42 am ---You guys kept bringing your usual builds and...
--- End quote ---
This SCS was the first one where I got to use all of those Mobula loadouts, which means I didn't bring my usual builds.
Newbluud:
In my mind, blind picks should be a result forced if teams continue to play counters of Icarus in the lobbies. That is if both teams continuously change to avoid being hard countered, not just one switching to force the blind pick anyway. That way you still get to oust the "lobby meta", making it more about the game, without outright forcing teams to enter what is essentially a roll of the dice. Whilst luck is always going to be a factor in these things (see Keb dropping connection at two crucial moments during the first match of yesterday's SCS), making it a staple of the tournament I feel redistributes what it takes to win so that there's a slightly larger amount placed on luck.
That being said, yesterday's SCS was a bad time for Toilet Paper clan. And I'm not going to pin that entirely on blind picks. I actually believe blind picks had almost nothing to do with it. But hey, I'm green in the competitive community so take what I say with a pinch of salt. My issue with blind picks is how it pushes the game further away from competitive and makes it feel more casual. Random is bad for competitive. Luck is bad for competitive.
Fact is, this system shouldn't be forced by a higher power, so to speak. It should be a safeguard against the game of counters. If ships switch up more than a set amount of times, blind picks are enforced. If a team holds a build then switches to a hard counter in the last minute, blind picks are enforced. Admittedly, this would be hard to monitor and clunky, but with polish, I feel it would be a far fairer way of executing this than having one team essentially play a joker card and randomise the proceeding match. Doing so forces out teams with distinct play styles and ensures all clans become jacks of all trades.
Caprontos:
--- Quote from: Newbluud on September 14, 2015, 09:55:51 am ---In my mind, blind picks should be a result forced if teams continue to play counters of Icarus in the lobbies. That is if both teams continuously change to avoid being hard countered, not just one switching to force the blind pick anyway. That way you still get to oust the "lobby meta", making it more about the game, without outright forcing teams to enter what is essentially a roll of the dice. Whilst luck is always going to be a factor in these things (see Keb dropping connection at two crucial moments during the first match of yesterday's SCS), making it a staple of the tournament I feel redistributes what it takes to win so that there's a slightly larger amount placed on luck.
That being said, yesterday's SCS was a bad time for Toilet Paper clan. And I'm not going to pin that entirely on blind picks. I actually believe blind picks had almost nothing to do with it. But hey, I'm green in the competitive community so take what I say with a pinch of salt. My issue with blind picks is how it pushes the game further away from competitive and makes it feel more casual. Random is bad for competitive. Luck is bad for competitive.
Fact is, this system shouldn't be forced by a higher power, so to speak. It should be a safeguard against the game of counters. If ships switch up more than a set amount of times, blind picks are enforced. If a team holds a build then switches to a hard counter in the last minute, blind picks are enforced. Admittedly, this would be hard to monitor and clunky, but with polish, I feel it would be a far fairer way of executing this than having one team essentially play a joker card and randomise the proceeding match. Doing so forces out teams with distinct play styles and ensures all clans become jacks of all trades.
--- End quote ---
But isn't the SCS less "Competitive" then bigger events.. An more something to try things and keep something going when no events are running? Ie not meant to be as serious (more serious then pub matches, less serious then a big event)... So some luck/randomness can be a good thing, if it opens up new possibilities...
Personally.. I don't really care if they keep or drop blind pick.. Since I just run in a circle till someone wins anyways.. Doesn't really change anything for me.. I am just happy it doesn't make the SCS take longer..
But I do support it in the two pick mode, if only cause it does add something different to mix it up..
Another idea on how to add blindpick is perhaps, a team can only pick for a match to be blind pick, once per SCS? This way they can't rely on it, but is an option to use if you want to.. Then if no one has the option for force blindpick, if both teams agree it is blind pick anyway.. Otherwise normal match. Though more things to keep track of.. but an idea.
Also on the bracket page, here: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS68 Can you add like a * or something after the team who asked for blind pick ? or someway to know which games are blind picks, if it stays a rule in SCS. Just because I'd personally like to know which games were blind picks + who asked for in the future.. Idk how those pages work, so maybe that isn't a possibility.. Fine if its not or to much effort.
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