Cogs Pick & Pun

[Veyka]

I have never seen Aqua flying spire, thus my comments, maybe I should have said "I haven't seem him fly it" rather than he does not. Lumberspire could still be nasty, but I would still bet on a Galleon winning out over it atm, yes its harder to manage range of engagement, but the extra durability is invaluable.

Saying you don't snipe, just seems more like a kneejerk reaction to the negative attitudes people hold about long range engagements, you spent most of the match shooting at long range with merc and lumber, yes your galleon had a hwacha as its 2nd side which made it less effective at long range and more so at mid, but you still spent most of the game at long range, I am not saying this is a bad thing though! It worked out well for you this match, it will be interesting to see you play vs one of the teams who have spent more time specialising at extreme range combat.

As far as the lumberjack, its not going to force people to close, its going to force people to try to slide around it, and avoid trying to rush at it, as thats a very good way to end up on the floor dead before you can even get some shots off, thats why they went around the side, as vs a lumber and dual merc with a spire and a junker if they had tried to close the gap across the open area they would have just been shot out of the sky.

Anyway, onto next week.

[AquaMac]

I can almost see Corvus running a galeon/pyra here

Are you some kind of psychic?

Line of reasoning:

They were going to give Phoebe a Lumberjack, So they have 3 choices, Spire, goldfish or Galleon, Spire is out as Aqua doesn't fly spire, and Galleon is generally a far better bet for snipping matches so it was the most probable outcome.

Another thing though that swallow got very wrong in commentary. Yes we used Pyras for all of our matches, but it was a different load out each match. We did tried new things. The first one we planned sniping with paddling, because that is what they do. That game was 5-3 by the way. They got us with the Lumber Jack.

Second match I used double ballon poppers, while Skrim has standard load out with Pasta. They did NOT slaughter us, it was 5-4 by the way.

Thirdly We used gatt, flak, flak, gat load out on NMS, and we had trouble cause almost both our ships were all subs. We also had bad spawns, cold not regroup etc.

Not saying that NMS did not deserve that win, not at all, just saying what happened.

And one more thing. All you players out there now liking the Lumber Jack and wanting to steal my girlfriend to serve on your ship, BACK OFF! You had your chance, you did not see Phoebs potential, I did, and she also saw my potential as a Lumber Jack pilot, and her man.   I actually appreciated her for it, and her tatical insight, while others even wanted to kick her off their team, or were disrespectful to her being a woman. Shame on you. Plus since she is now my girlfriend, you can't have her. LOL

[Phoebe]

I have never seen Aqua flying spire, thus my comments, maybe I should have said "I haven't seem him fly it" rather than he does not. Lumberspire could still be nasty, but I would still bet on a Galleon winning out over it atm, yes its harder to manage range of engagement, but the extra durability is invaluable.

Saying you don't snipe, just seems more like a kneejerk reaction to the negative attitudes people hold about long range engagements, you spent most of the match shooting at long range with merc and lumber, yes your galleon had a hwacha as its 2nd side which made it less effective at long range and more so at mid, but you still spent most of the game at long range, I am not saying this is a bad thing though! It worked out well for you this match, it will be interesting to see you play vs one of the teams who have spent more time specialising at extreme range combat.

As far as the lumberjack, its not going to force people to close, its going to force people to try to slide around it, and avoid trying to rush at it, as thats a very good way to end up on the floor dead before you can even get some shots off, thats why they went around the side, as vs a lumber and dual merc with a spire and a junker if they had tried to close the gap across the open area they would have just been shot out of the sky.

Anyway, onto next week.

No;- I completely disagree with your interpetation of my reaction.  It's not a kneejerk reaction to the negative comments or a form of excuse to justify sniping -  we only have Mercs on gunmounts where it's only logical to have them and I can't disagree more with putting Lumberjacks into a sniper category or even a "Long range weapon" - most people can't even hit with it at long range.

I don't think you get what I'm saying;-

It's annoying when people can't distinct long range combat efficiency from "sniping"  - or intentionally going for a snipe match.  If we wanted a snipe match we would have stayed put and get a large view across the map rather than go to the exact central point of what is typically a sniping map.     It turned out well because we had an enemy that just didn't move in aggressively;- they stuck behind clouds;- they stuck behind structure - and we were totally fine with that because as long as they didn't want to fight us up close we could just potshot them to death.

We have to be really careful where we are going to draw a line between what we call sniping and what we simply call long range potential -  because there are people (ok, I'm one of them)  that don't like sniping at all;- and get annoyed being called one.

Your perspective is just going to push all of us into a "Sniper" / boring match category sooner or later unless we all decide to go Gat-Flak pyra and make it a  "First person who shoots wins"  kind of game - well that's just not us.

We went with a balanced loadout and expected them to get up close - hell;- they even took close combat loadouts.   They got shut out because our long range half of our loadouts was sufficient to kill them;- that secondary loadout we have on our ships  "Just in case"  we are AGAINST snipers.

So yeah;- I'm annoyed at the negative commentary and the callout, "Oh corvus resorted to the sniping meta"

[Veyka]

I have never seen Aqua flying spire, thus my comments, maybe I should have said "I haven't seem him fly it" rather than he does not. Lumberspire could still be nasty, but I would still bet on a Galleon winning out over it atm, yes its harder to manage range of engagement, but the extra durability is invaluable.

Saying you don't snipe, just seems more like a kneejerk reaction to the negative attitudes people hold about long range engagements, you spent most of the match shooting at long range with merc and lumber, yes your galleon had a hwacha as its 2nd side which made it less effective at long range and more so at mid, but you still spent most of the game at long range, I am not saying this is a bad thing though! It worked out well for you this match, it will be interesting to see you play vs one of the teams who have spent more time specialising at extreme range combat.

As far as the lumberjack, its not going to force people to close, its going to force people to try to slide around it, and avoid trying to rush at it, as thats a very good way to end up on the floor dead before you can even get some shots off, thats why they went around the side, as vs a lumber and dual merc with a spire and a junker if they had tried to close the gap across the open area they would have just been shot out of the sky.

Anyway, onto next week.

No;- I completely disagree with your interpetation of my reaction.  It's not a kneejerk reaction to the negative comments or a form of excuse to justify sniping -  we only have Mercs on gunmounts where it's only logical to have them and I can't disagree more with putting Lumberjacks into a sniper category or even a "Long range weapon" - most people can't even hit with it at long range.

I don't think you get what I'm saying;-

It's annoying when people can't distinct long range combat efficiency from "sniping"  - or intentionally going for a snipe match.  If we wanted a snipe match we would have stayed put and get a large view across the map rather than go to the exact central point of what is typically a sniping map.     It turned out well because we had an enemy that just didn't move in aggressively;- they stuck behind clouds;- they stuck behind structure - and we were totally fine with that because as long as they didn't want to fight us up close we could just potshot them to death.

We have to be really careful where we are going to draw a line between what we call sniping and what we simply call long range potential -  because there are people (ok, I'm one of them)  that don't like sniping at all;- and get annoyed being called one.

Your perspective is just going to push all of us into a "Sniper" / boring match category sooner or later unless we all decide to go Gat-Flak pyra and make it a  "First person who shoots wins"  kind of game - well that's just not us.

We went with a balanced loadout and expected them to get up close - hell;- they even took close combat loadouts.   They got shut out because our long range half of our loadouts was sufficient to kill them;- that secondary loadout we have on our ships  "Just in case"  we are AGAINST snipers.

So yeah;- I'm annoyed at the negative commentary and the callout, "Oh corvus resorted to the sniping meta"

The lumberjack is a very long range weapon, a pugs ability to hit using one isn't really relevant when we are talking about the cogs, we have seen people hitting across the map though clouds with them, sounds pretty long range to me.

"The Crows had a good mix of long and mid/short range combat potential" vs "The Crows loadout could support snipping as well as mid/close range combat", saying the same thing, just worded differently, and if you look at all the teams who have been called snipping teams, they have all had the ability to pivot to mid/short combat, thats why you see the mercs on the side of the pyra rather than the front for the most part.

I am also pretty sure I never said "snipping bad, crows bad for snipping" etc, I said "better for snipping matches", would you have felt differently if I had said "better for long range matches"? You won the match, you played well.

Are we also gluing sniping and camping together now as well?

If the rumors are true the next patch should shake the meta up nicerly so this whole discussion is moot in the mid term anyway, might even see it hit before next sat which should be fun.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Look like this has gotten pretty off topic, so I'm here to push it back toward the subject of Cogs Pick (With very few Pun). Thanks.

[Moriarty]

"Lumberjacks are not sniping weapons;- they're anti sniping weapons."

This cracked me up, I laughed at that i really did - Disclaimer: really tired... and amused


On a separate note: Clutter like this is to be expected maybe a new thread should start for each tipping run?

[AquaMac]

I agree with Zill that maybe we stay on track on this forum. Could always do separate forum for gun talks?

[Skrimskraw]

there will be sniping, untill the meta changes.

[RearAdmiralZill]

It's up to the OP to determine how he wants to continue his thread, until then, treat this as the only one for Cogs Pick and Pun, and keep posts on subject. If you want to make a new one to argue about guns, be my guest. I'd probably join in the discussion, hah. But do keep this on topic else I'll lock this and he'll be forced into a new thread.

Thanks to all.

[Linen]

Thanks Zill. I should have gotten to this sooner. While I don't want to discourage tipping discussion and theory crafting, because that's what this thread is for, this isn't the place to argue semantics or to air offences.

I understand sniping and camping is a hot topic but that's not what this thread is about.

There's going to be a new thread every week anyway and it has occurred to me that there needs to be somewhere clean to host the weekly statistics and the running leaderboard so it doesn't get lost in the conversation.

To bring it back:

Paddling won over Polaris 5-1. Yet the community picks gave them both very even odds despite The Paddling's track record. Why do you think that is?

[Phoebe]

Paddling won over Polaris 5-1. Yet the community picks gave them both very even odds despite The Paddling's track record. Why do you think that is?

Polaris had been given a lot of (not entirely but partially justified) praise for using a blenderspire last time;- and people were genuinely suprised that it "worked" -  it made them cocky and no one expected them to be so confident in it that they'd be stupid enough to take two spires against Paddling on Duel at Dawn

[N-Sunderland]

Paddling won over Polaris 5-1. Yet the community picks gave them both very even odds despite The Paddling's track record. Why do you think that is?

Polaris had been given a lot of (not entirely but partially justified) praise for using a blenderspire last time;- and people were genuinely suprised that it "worked" -  it made them cocky and no one expected them to be so confident in it that they'd be stupid enough to take two spires against Paddling on Duel at Dawn

Apparently they had a last-minute strategy change. Somebody on their team took an executive decision and decided to go double Spires, which apparently confused the hell out of the rest of them. They don't actually think the Spire is good. They realize that it's a terrible ship. I think we need some clarification from somebody on the team as to what happened exactly.

Anyways, I think people were predicting Polaris to win because that's what they wanted to see. At this point, a lot of people seem to want to see The Paddling go down (and I'll admit, some diversity at the top would be nice). So they optimistically vote for what they want to happen, instead of the realistic result.

[Captain Smollett]

I personally like watching the Paddling go into the gladiator pit and emerge victorious week after week. 
I'm also completely unbiased in this conversation.  Ask anyone.

Honestly though, I think having a repeating champion adds drama to the matches and creates for some interesting dialogue.

[zitruskiller]

Polaris had been given a lot of (not entirely but partially justified) praise for using a blenderspire last time;- and people were genuinely suprised that it "worked" -  it made them cocky and no one expected them to be so confident in it that they'd be stupid enough to take two spires against Paddling on Duel at Dawn

This is only my opinion, and it can disagree with the opinion of my team.
We won PaFa not because spire was a good decision, but because we just had a better crew on my ship (pyra). If you watched closely, just all times when we faced pyra 1v1, we killed it, and then the other ship. The decision to take 2 spires on duel at down was spontaneous, and i totally disagree with it (actually i, as a cap, will never fly spire at cogs) but it was not totally cocky, one of the reasons was that we already won ducks on dunes with that setup couple of times. It was just a public game, we had not full crews, something like 6v6 players, but that games made us belive that its real. (correct me if im wrong, paddling, because i was not there, when we did it). Im sure we had chances to do that again, the only reason, why we lost is that we played disgusting in that match, and of course, well played, ducks, as usual.

[Veyka]

Polaris had been given a lot of (not entirely but partially justified) praise for using a blenderspire last time;- and people were genuinely suprised that it "worked" -  it made them cocky and no one expected them to be so confident in it that they'd be stupid enough to take two spires against Paddling on Duel at Dawn

This is only my opinion, and it can disagree with the opinion of my team.
We won PaFa not because spire was a good decision, but because we just had a better crew on my ship (pyra) if you watched closely, just all times when we faced pyra 1v1, we killed it, and then the other ship. The decision to take 2 spires on duel at down was spontaneous, and i disagree with it (actually i, as a cap, will never fly spire at cogs) but it was not totally cocky, one of the reasons was that we already won ducks on dunes with that setup couple of times. We had not full crews, something like 6v6 players (correct me if im wrong, paddling, because i was not there, when we did it)

Yeh, the impression I got from watching the PaFa match was that the Polaris Pyra was very effective, and that the two ships stayed together well, and as PaFa trying to focus the spire and ignoring the Pyra (which didn't end well) combined with their blenderfish not being very effective.

I was also wondering why Xemko wasn't flying.